This may be tough for some to swallow, but....

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Prayer Warrior

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Thanks...my homeland though as you may tell from my avatar is New Zealand. Pray for there to...The government there has chosen to introduce a nationwide vote next election on euthanasia. And although the majority of doctors are against it, the general public it seems have sympathy toward it.
Oh, so sorry. I've thought all this time that you were in Australia. I didn't know that your avatar represents New Zealand, ignorant American that I am. :(

Yes, of course I will pray for New Zealand. Such a beautiful country! My girls would love to go there and see Hobbiton, lol.

Edit: It seems you're saying that you're from New Zealand, but do you live in Aurstalia?
 
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Giuliano

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I take from this then that the prime motivation for getting rid of Trump is not any form of genuine righteous indignation for Trumps foibles, but pure self interest.
For some of the most vociferous Democrats perhaps, but I wouldn't say that's true for them all since Pelosi resisted the idea of impeachment for a long time -- it's not something to be undertaken frivolously. It can be very divisive, for one thing. Who wants to increase the division which is already bad enough?

With the Mueller investigation, it was clear that there had be wrong doing in many quarters and several people got prosecuted. What was not clear however was how involved Trump was personally. I think it would have been unwise to impeach Trump under those circumstances. While I suspected him of being corrupt, I don't know if I would have voted to impeach him if I were a member of Congress since the evidence was somewhat vague. Obstruction of justice? Maybe. Was that worth throwing the country in chaos? Sometimes it's best to hold your nose and allow some things to go unnoticed since the cure may be worse than the ailment.

This case is different since we have evidence showing Trump putting his political interests ahead of American interests in terms of foreign policy.
Unfortunately for the democrats hearsay and false allegations don't stand up as evidence. And surely you can see that the hatred against Trump is wholly ideological and driven by blind animosity? And I think America had more to fear from Biden than does Trump.
Is it all hearsay? Stay tuned. Don't jump to conclusions.
 
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brakelite

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Oh, so sorry. I've thought all this time that you were in Australia. I didn't know that your avatar represents New Zealand, ignorant American that I am. :(

Yes, of course I will pray for New Zealand. Such a beautiful country! My girls would love to go there and see Hobbiton, lol.

Edit: It seems you're saying that you're from New Zealand, but do you live in Aurstalia?
Yes, lived in Melbourne for 3 years now. And I used to live just 10 minutes away from Hobiton. And never saw it.lol.
 
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brakelite

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With the Mueller investigation, it was clear that there had be wrong doing in many quarters and several people got prosecuted. What was not clear however was how involved Trump was personally. I think it would have been unwise to impeach Trump under those circumstances. While I suspected him of being corrupt, I don't know if I would have voted to impeach him if I were a member of Congress since the evidence was somewhat vague. Obstruction of justice? Maybe. Was that worth throwing the country in chaos? Sometimes it's best to hold your nose and allow some things to go unnoticed since the cure may be worse than the ailment
But if you release an attack dog in the midst of butcher's, regardless of political affiliation, there is going to be blood on the floor. It's inevitable. The same result would have eventuated if Obama had been investigated....Hillary...Bill...
Is it all hearsay? Stay tuned. Don't jump to conclusions.
Nolte: Impeachment Backfire – Trump's Numbers Rise as Biden's Crater
 
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Prayer Warrior

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Yes, lived in Melbourne for 3 years now. And I used to live just 10 minutes away from Hobiton. And never saw it.lol.
I see. Never saw Hobbiton, eh? My girls gasped when I told them this, lol. We love the movies and really enjoyed the New Zealand scenery! That would be quite a tour.
 
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Giuliano

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Most Americans disagree with you. Farmers in the Midwest, for example, aren't happy that his trade wars have badly harmed them, and most of them, being conservative, are insulted by his offer to remedy the situation by giving them a form of welfare payments.
Trump won Iowa in 2016 by 9.4%. He's managed to hold a lead over Biden in the polls, but it's only 1.5%. He's managed to hold the lead over Biden in Texas too; but that's not the best news either since he won Texas by 9% but his lead over Biden is .03%. Those are the only two swing states Trump is currently ahead in. Biden's ahead by very tiny margins in Florida and Arizona; but it looks dismal for Trump in the others.
Things are looking grim for Republicans. Trump won here in Pennsylvania by under 1%. I can't see him winning here in 2020. Biden has a 1.7% lead on him; and Republicans are scared, so scared they're trying to change how we vote so people can't vote a straight ticket. They're obviously afraid of people voting straight Democratic; and that could hurt several Republican incumbents.

Unless the Democrats really mess up, Trump won't see another term.
You're assuming Trump is a conservative. He only plays one in the WH. This is why the few remaining principled conservatives detest him.
There may be more than you think. I think they feel outnumbered and intimidated. I could vote for Bill Weld or Joe Walsh easily. I hope Trump resigns and one of them is the nominee. I'd wager too that many Republicans would prefer to see Trump out so someone could run. I calculate the electoral votes by the latest polls; and if the election were held today, it would be 363 for Biden and 168 for Trump. Trump is leading the Republican Party to destruction if you ask me.
 
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brakelite

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I see. Never saw Hobbiton, eh? Why girls gasped when I told them this, lol. We love the movies and really enjoyed the New Zealand scenery! That would be quite a tour.
Yep, for someone never been there I get that. But for the locals....Hi hum. Hills with holes and doors. But I also loved the movies, certainly.
I also lived almost next door to one of the first dolphin aquariums in NZ. my niece even worked there, but I never went. And I lived an hour away from the only land based Gannett sanctuary in the world......:rolleyes:
 
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brakelite

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What I fear is that Trump survives all the political attacks, but doesn't survive physical one. Then you will end up with Pence. I dint think Pence has the courage of JFK to tell the pope he isn't in charge...
 

Giuliano

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But if you release an attack dog in the midst of butcher's, regardless of political affiliation, there is going to be blood on the floor. It's inevitable. The same result would have eventuated if Obama had been investigated....Hillary...Bill...

Nolte: Impeachment Backfire – Trump's Numbers Rise as Biden's Crater
I would not assume Biden will the nominee. He has a lot of baggage, a lot more than his son, and his son is truly a nasty person (don't get me started on Hunter Biden). It doesn't surprise me in the least to see him falling in Iowa. He's also had trouble raising money; and after saying for so long how opposed he was to super PACs, suddenly he was in favor of them if it meant he could keep his campaign alive because the small personal donations weren't flowing in. What a hypocrite.
 

Enoch111

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What I fear is that Trump survives all the political attacks, but doesn't survive physical one.
You should be praying that this will not happen, but you too are a Never-Trumper. You just don't understand that Satan has arrayed all his evil forces against Trump. But imagine any of those pathetic UNPRINCIPLED Democratic candidates leading America into oblivion and slavery.
 
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Giuliano

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You should be praying that this will not happen, but you too are a Never-Trumper. You just don't understand that Satan has arrayed all his evil forces against Trump. But imagine any of those pathetic UNPRINCIPLED Democratic candidates leading America into oblivion and slavery.
As if Trump is so highly principled. Ha!
 

Enoch111

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Unless the Democrats really mess up, Trump won't see another term.
If that were really the case, then they would not need their SHAM IMPEACHMENT CONSPIRACY. The only reason for this absolute nonsense is that the Democrats know that there is no one of their pathetic candidates who stands a chance against Trump. In any other country people would be rolling on the floor laughing at that array of clowns.
 
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Giuliano

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If that were really the case, then they would not need their SHAM IMPEACHMENT CONSPIRACY. The only reason for this absolute nonsense is that the Democrats know that there is no one of their pathetic candidates who stands a chance against Trump. In any other country people would be rolling on the floor laughing at that array of clowns.
Spare us the empty rhetoric. If the Democrats are so vulnerable, why is Biden ahead of Trump in the polls? Warren is too in many swing states.

Your calling the impeachment a sham doesn't make it a sham. Are you like Trump , thinking you can make something true by saying it? Any President who uses his office trying to strong arm an ally into digging up dirt on a political opponent needs to be impeached and removed for placing his own political career over the national interest.

Let's also not forget people died in Ukraine because Trump withheld that money. If Trump hadn't been so worried about getting dirt on Biden, they wouldn't have died. What kind of person is Donald Trump?

Unlike Trump Ukraine scandal, no one died at Watergate (Opinion) - CNN

Taylor's testimony revealed that in visits to Ukraine's Donbass front he was told that at least one or two Ukrainians were dying every day in a hot war with Russia for control of the Ukrainian coal production region. American aid was desperately needed, and delay meant death to Ukraine's soldiers. The conclusion any reasonable person would draw from such testimony is that the President's threats and the actual withholding of aid was aiding and abetting Russia. It was also causing the death of brave Ukrainians, American allies defending their homeland. All of this so Trump can beat Biden in the next presidential election. In some respects, it actually sounds far worse than Richard Nixon throwing a few dollars to the Watergate burglars and then elaborately covering it up. No one died as a result of Nixon's theoretically impeachable offenses.

In contrast, testimony on Day 1 of the House impeachment hearing suggested that American professional diplomats feared that Trump's delay in the disbursement of Ukraine's $400 million in military aid could telegraph a lack of American commitment, creating the real potential to cost the lives of Ukrainian soldiers by encouraging Russian aggression.


If Trump could beat Biden so easily, why would he need Ukraine to help him? It looks pretty desperate as if he knew he could lose unless he could get some dirt on Biden.

How it got done was also stupid. If Trump wanted Biden investigated, all he needed to do was give them the aid as scheduled and then have the State or Justice Department ask them to investigate a list of ten or twenty companies that included the one Hunter Biden worked for. Ukraine would have done that since they valued us an ally. There was no need to strong arm them or single out that one company. It was very stupid. Getting Rudy Giuliani involved was also very stupid.

I'd also love to know what Giuliani is doing working for the MEK. I'd also like to know why the MEK got taken off the list of terrorist organizations in 2012. It is still an Islamic terrorist organization from what I can see.

Giuliani’s work for Iranian group with bloody past could lead to more legal woes

Legal experts say Giuliani’s work on behalf of the MEK and its political arm, the National Council of Resistance of Iran, also raises questions about whether he may have run afoul of the Foreign Agents Registration Act, or FARA. The law requires American citizens to disclose to the Justice Department any lobbying or public relations work on behalf of a foreign entity, regardless of whether they’re paid for the representation.

A review of the group’s government filings shows that Giuliani met with MEK officials at least once every year since 2014. A range of issues were discussed, including “Iran's nuclear weapons as well as Iran's terrorism in the region, including Iraq and Syria” in 2014, the plight of Iranian dissidents living in Iraq in 2015, and the protests in Iran in 2018.
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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Yes, lived in Melbourne for 3 years now. And I used to live just 10 minutes away from Hobiton. And never saw it.lol.
I went along and seen Hobiton and all, loved NZ.
I even seen Gollum here in Australia, he was the father of one of the girls that came to our Ju Jitsu class, but he got kicked out because he was trying to make his girl to vicious, I tried to tell him that that is not what it's about, but he did not get it, he was a bouncer at a pub, but boy did he look like Gollum.
I was going to ask him to do a tour as Gollum in the flesh, as a business venture.
 

aspen

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If the Senate does not remove Trump from office, he will exonerate all of his cronies who are jailed. I hope for his sake that Putin or Kim has a palace waiting for him if and when he does leave office because he is looking at federal and state charges after the Criminal shield he is enjoying right now
 
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brakelite

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but you too are a Never-Trumper. You just don't understand that Satan has arrayed all his evil forces against Trump.
If you think that, then you haven't been reading my posts...or my writing skills aren't as 'up there' as they should be. This thread has never been about whether Trump can or can't make a good president, it has always been about the Christian hope that through Trump there comes salvation in some capacity to America. And the forces arrayed against him are without doubt Satanic. It is illogical, immoral, and unprecedented...but then at times, so is Trump. But there is no doubt he is doing some good things, and I'm glad for that. And the best thing he is doing is giving the church space, (note, I did not say power...the last thing the church needs from Trump is political power...that battle for power in America is not a democrat/republican divide...it has always been and continues to be a Protestant/Catholic divide), and that space is in the form of time to share the gospel before the end comes. Trump for the time being may be holding back globalism in the form of Papal hegemony, but only for a short time. I believe he is as deceived by the Pope as is most of Protestantism. My thread on the UN reveals how deeply entrenched is the opposition to the republic. I am firmly against the church placing her faith in this prince...I am undecided how involved Trump is, if at all, with the Jesuit goal of world dominion. Even though, like Clinton and numerous Presidents before him, he was educated in a Jesuit college. (And don't underestimate Jesuit education...Papal dominion and anti-Protestantism lies at the core of everything they do).
 

Giuliano

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I see Roger Stone was convicted.

Roger Stone, confidant of Trump and WikiLeaks connection, found guilty on all seven counts

Republican operative Roger Stone was found guilty Friday of all seven counts against him, including witness tampering and making false statements.

Prosecutors portrayed Stone, 67, as a serial liar who tried to bully witnesses into not cooperating with authorities. They charged Stone, a confidant of President Donald Trump, with making false statements, obstruction and witness tampering in a case that was an offshoot of special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia investigation.

Stone is the sixth Trump aide or adviser to be convicted of charges brought as part of Mueller's probe.

His sentencing was set for Feb. 6, and he faces up to 20 years in prison. The jury deliberated for two days.
 

Josho

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Spare us the empty rhetoric. If the Democrats are so vulnerable, why is Biden ahead of Trump in the polls? Warren is too in many swing states.

Your calling the impeachment a sham doesn't make it a sham. Are you like Trump , thinking you can make something true by saying it? Any President who uses his office trying to strong arm an ally into digging up dirt on a political opponent needs to be impeached and removed for placing his own political career over the national interest.

Let's also not forget people died in Ukraine because Trump withheld that money. If Trump hadn't been so worried about getting dirt on Biden, they wouldn't have died. What kind of person is Donald Trump?

Unlike Trump Ukraine scandal, no one died at Watergate (Opinion) - CNN

Taylor's testimony revealed that in visits to Ukraine's Donbass front he was told that at least one or two Ukrainians were dying every day in a hot war with Russia for control of the Ukrainian coal production region. American aid was desperately needed, and delay meant death to Ukraine's soldiers. The conclusion any reasonable person would draw from such testimony is that the President's threats and the actual withholding of aid was aiding and abetting Russia. It was also causing the death of brave Ukrainians, American allies defending their homeland. All of this so Trump can beat Biden in the next presidential election. In some respects, it actually sounds far worse than Richard Nixon throwing a few dollars to the Watergate burglars and then elaborately covering it up. No one died as a result of Nixon's theoretically impeachable offenses.

In contrast, testimony on Day 1 of the House impeachment hearing suggested that American professional diplomats feared that Trump's delay in the disbursement of Ukraine's $400 million in military aid could telegraph a lack of American commitment, creating the real potential to cost the lives of Ukrainian soldiers by encouraging Russian aggression.


If Trump could beat Biden so easily, why would he need Ukraine to help him? It looks pretty desperate as if he knew he could lose unless he could get some dirt on Biden.

How it got done was also stupid. If Trump wanted Biden investigated, all he needed to do was give them the aid as scheduled and then have the State or Justice Department ask them to investigate a list of ten or twenty companies that included the one Hunter Biden worked for. Ukraine would have done that since they valued us an ally. There was no need to strong arm them or single out that one company. It was very stupid. Getting Rudy Giuliani involved was also very stupid.

I'd also love to know what Giuliani is doing working for the MEK. I'd also like to know why the MEK got taken off the list of terrorist organizations in 2012. It is still an Islamic terrorist organization from what I can see.

Giuliani’s work for Iranian group with bloody past could lead to more legal woes

Legal experts say Giuliani’s work on behalf of the MEK and its political arm, the National Council of Resistance of Iran, also raises questions about whether he may have run afoul of the Foreign Agents Registration Act, or FARA. The law requires American citizens to disclose to the Justice Department any lobbying or public relations work on behalf of a foreign entity, regardless of whether they’re paid for the representation.

A review of the group’s government filings shows that Giuliani met with MEK officials at least once every year since 2014. A range of issues were discussed, including “Iran's nuclear weapons as well as Iran's terrorism in the region, including Iraq and Syria” in 2014, the plight of Iranian dissidents living in Iraq in 2015, and the protests in Iran in 2018.

Trump sure is playing some dangerous politics. And it's just silly that it has became to norm to find dirt on the other candidates.... and using Ukraine in that way was crazy. The verbal remarks he made about the Kurdish after he withdrew the US troops was also crazy and insensitive.