righteousness

Ezra said:

no these are for every Christian we are to test the spirits

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Is the Christian in 1 John 3:9 a sinner? "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." Should he say he is a sinner even though he doesn't commit sins of lawlessness against God? God is light, does a Christian walk in darkness? 1 John 1:6

I couldn't believe this, but here is what one poster said in two different posts:

"Our transgressions are forgiven and our sins are covered. God does not input sin. However much sin abounds in us, Grace does much more abound."

"When Jesus died, I was baptized into his death. Thus, being a dead man, I don't sin. My flesh does, but I don't."

Ezra said:

really ? so you obey %100 you never get mad and sin ? there is sin of omission ad sin of commission..james wrote to him who knows to do good and dont is a sin.. wow 1john 1:9 is for the christian the Bible does say strive to enter at the strait gate last i studied sin was sin but have it your way YOUR missing the point Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. nice to meet someone who doesn't sin. every thing written in the book is to the Christian back to righteousness

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I'm curious if you read the rest of the paragraph?

CharismaticLady said:

So, no, we will not all sin as you stated. But you are not all wrong. We will never again sin against God, but we still can commit trespasses against each other, though unintentionally committed. (Leviticus 5:15). 1 John 5:14-15 are sins unto death - sins against God, the moral laws; and sins NOT unto death - trespasses unwittingly committed. If someone commits a trespass against us we must have forgiveness in our hearts toward them. Matthew 6:14-15. “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

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CharismaticLady said:

I couldn't believe this, but here is what one poster said in two different posts:

"Our transgressions are forgiven and our sins are covered. God does not input sin. However much sin abounds in us, Grace does much more abound."

"When Jesus died, I was baptized into his death. Thus, being a dead man, I don't sin. My flesh does, but I don't."

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This is what is written:

Rom 5:20, Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21, That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 7:17, Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18, For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19, For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20, Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Episkopos said:

What I'm saying is that there is a big difference between being a servant of righteousness and a slave to a religious ideology that flouts righteousness as something foreign to it.

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sure, like a little kid does it eh. Ive heard it said that we experience irl like a dream when we are little kids, seemed apt

Ezra said:

we know that Paul wrote in Philippians that Christ is our righteousness
Philippians 3:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Other words we could use are justified sanctified . Feel free to comment please no arguments . The moment we are saved we are declared righteous, but i will leave this question open: is that the end of righteousness for those truly saved as in nothing else to do. or is there some things in scripture we are to follow ?

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Our own righteousness is filthy rags. To depend on it is the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees (Matthew 5:20; Luke 18:9-14). 'I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing' (Galatians 2:21).

When we are saved, the Holy Spirit writes God's moral law on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33 etc.) and causes us to delight in it (Romans 7:22) and desire to keep it (Psalm 40:8 etc.). But there remains a relic of sin, not in our hearts, but in our bodies (or 'flesh' or 'members' - Romans 6:12; Romans 7:23; Galatians 5:17). The Christian has to battle with sin all his life (Colossians 3:5), but we are given hope, because sin shall not be our master (Romans 6:14). At the return of Christ, we shall shed this old sinful body and be free from sin forever.

But until then, we are utterly dependent upon the grace of God, but we press on in our battle to mortify sin (Philippians 3:12-14), and when we fall short, as inevitably we shall from time to time, we confess our sins to God, knowing that we have One who is ever interceding with the Father on our account (1 John 1:8 - 2:2).

CharismaticLady said:

Is the Christian in 1 John 3:9 a sinner? "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." Should he say he is a sinner even though he doesn't commit sins of lawlessness against God? God is light, does a Christian walk in darkness? 1 John 1:6

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Whatever 1 John 3:9 means, it cannot contradict 1 John 1:8-10. The key to reconciling the two texts is the Greek Present Tense which denotes continuous action. So 1 John 3:9 means that no one who continuously sins is born of God, for His seed remains in him and he cannot continually sin.

If someone says, I want to be a Christian, but I won't stop doing that, where 'that' is a sin, he is deceiving himself and still walking in darkness. But suppose that someone was a thief, was saved and repented of his dishonesty. Then one day, he saw a wallet fall out of someone's pocket, and in a moment of weakness, picked it up and ran off with it. Now if that person is genuinely saved, the Spirit will convict him of sin, and he will try to make amends for that sin in whatever way he can. But if he doesn't do so, that is evidence that he was never truly saved and is like the dog that returns to his vomit.

Steve Owen said:

and when we fall short, as inevitably we shall from time to time,

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The inevitability of sin is a false doctrine that has been propagated in the church.

1 John 3:9, Romans 8:12, Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10, and many other verses tell us that it is not inevitable that we will sin. If it were, then the devil can say to us, "you're going to do it eventually anyway, so you might as well do it now" and we would give in to temptation more easily.

Steve Owen said:

Whatever 1 John 3:9 means, it cannot contradict 1 John 1:8-10.

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1 John 3:9 is to be taken literally; as in 2 Corinthians 3:12, Paul wrote,

2Co 3:12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

1 John 1:8-10 means that we all have the element of sin dwelling in us. However, this does not mean that we will inevitably sin. For the element of sin can be rendered dead within us (Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:6, Romans 7:8); so that it no longer has any authority or say over our behaviour or what we do in our lives.

It also means that all of us have sinned (in the past); not necessarily that we do sin, or will sin in the future.

Therefore, we do not have to sin.

In fact, in 1 John 3:9, it is declared that the one who is born of God cannot sin.

Even if this is hyperbole, the message is clear: that the person who is born again of the Holy Spirit has made a 180-degree turn away from sin and is not walking in its direction any longer.

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Steve Owen said:

Whatever 1 John 3:9 means, it cannot contradict 1 John 1:8-10. The key to reconciling the two texts is the Greek Present Tense which denotes continuous action. So 1 John 3:9 means that no one who continuously sins is born of God, for His seed remains in him and he cannot continually sin.

If someone says, I want to be a Christian, but I won't stop doing that, where 'that' is a sin, he is deceiving himself and still walking in darkness. But suppose that someone was a thief, was saved and repented of his dishonesty. Then one day, he saw a wallet fall out of someone's pocket, and in a moment of weakness, picked it up and ran off with it. Now if that person is genuinely saved, the Spirit will convict him of sin, and he will try to make amends for that sin in whatever way he can. But if he doesn't do so, that is evidence that he was never truly saved and is like the dog that returns to his vomit.

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So you believe it is 1 John 3:9 that must change. Interesting. But there is a simpler answer than corrupting the clear meaning, but you have to know who is writing this, and in this case it is a Jew - John. When you understand Semitic writing styles in advanced studies, you immediately recognize that 1 John 1 has a list of contrasts. Has anyone asked themselves why 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10 are not together? Wouldn't they both need to have 1 John 1:9 as the answer? A Greek would have combined them. But, again, John's a Hebrew. The solution is in the third odd ball, 1 John 1:6 - darkness, which would also need verse 9 as the answer to the darkness. Now we can recognize that 6, 8 and 10 are all darkness contrasting with the light verses. Does a Christian continually walk in darkness? Of course not, they are lying to themselves and need to repent, and just as in 8 and 10 there is no truth in them. In other words, they do not belong to Christ (Romans 8:9).

1 John 1:5-10 is a list of contrasts. Light vs. Darkness. John does the same thing in chapter 3, those of Jesus vs. those of the devil. Though the man-made verse numbering didn't recognize the style and made it harder to see; but chapter one is very clear, as each verse is either of light or of darkness.

5 6 7 8 9 10

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

cc: @Ezra

This song addresses the question posed.

Ezra said:

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. i understand what christ is saying .. there is self righteousness and there is true righteousness . in isaiah 64;6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away so we know any thing we do to make us righteous .is like filthy rags which refers to discarded menstrual cloth .

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Greetings, Ezra!

Look, I haven't read all the responses yet, so forgive me if I am repeating after someone. But let's take a look at the full passage, because Jesus actually tells you what He was referring to specifically in this passage:

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire...
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

That's skimming along to highlight some things, but it shows you specifically how He wanted their righteousness to exceed that of the Pharisees. They were among those who were teaching these things, and it was not a righteousness He would accept because it was an outward show and an act. Hence He often called them "hypocrites," which meant "actors" in the original.

So Jesus was saying, "Be righteous for real, in heart, and in spirit and truth, and don't just put on a show of righteousness when inside you are actually full of dead men's bones" (Matthew 23:27).

Ezra said:

no we dont but we will
1 John 2:1 King James Version (KJV)
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: no but darkness is in our flesh

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Hmm. Darkness might also be a perception, right?

Ezra said:

no we dont but we will
1 John 2:1 King James Version (KJV)
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: no but darkness is in our flesh

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Notice that it does not say, WHEN any man sin; but the word IF is used.

And actually, I suggest you look up Ephesians 5:30-32, Romans 8:23 w/ Galatians 4:5-7, 1 Thessalonians 5:23, 1 John 3:5.

I am not saying that Jesus isn't your advocate if you sin.

I am merely proclaiming that committing sin is not an inevitability in the believer's life.

Also, when we take off the old man (like a set of clothing) and put on the new man, the only way the old man is going to get on you again is if you take off the new man and put on the old man; which might take a deliberate action on your part.

Know that you are accountable to the Lord for what you preached, James 3:1.