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Many Christians have explained to me that it is their duty to undertake the so-called "great commission" where they are compelled to spread the gospel message of salvation. They claim the Bible teaches that people are saved by faith in Jesus and not by doing good works. The implication being that people must be made aware of how Jesus sacrificed himself as payment for their sins and accept Christ in their hearts before God will permit them to enjoy an eternal afterlife in heaven. According to these Christians, they are warned that people who reject Jesus and his gift of salvation will not be permitted to enter the kingdom of God. How this criteria for salvation applies to people who lived-out their entire lives without ever having been exposed to Christianity is not entirely clear.

Many of us take for granted that almost everyone in the world today will have an opportunity to learn about Christianity either through indoctrination, cultural upbringing, public proselytizing, or the internet. Obviously, this has not always been the case. During the 1st century and for hundreds of years afterwords, the majority of people across the world would have known little to nothing about Jesus or Christianity. In fact, most cultures were completely oblivious to the gospel message. Of course, prior to the ministry of Jesus, absolutely no one believed in Christianity because it didn't yet exist. Where did all those people go when they died? Did God deny those people entrance into his kingdom for having never accepted Jesus in their hearts despite them having no knowledge that such a requirement existed? Are they being eternally punished in hell for worshiping false gods even though they never received spiritual guidance to the contrary by Christian missionaries or God himself?

Some Christian apologists suggest that God is merciful and does not fault those people for having never been provided the gospel. As such, many Christians believe that people who had no knowledge of Jesus or Christianity but lived a moral and righteous existence were judged fairly by God and were permitted into heaven after they died. We must infer from such theological reasoning that it would have been a disservice to educate them about Jesus because doing so would have increased their risk of being denied entrance into God's kingdom. This is because, had they received the gospel but were not convinced that the resurrection claim was true, God would have judged them negatively for their lack of faith even though they would have otherwise been judged favorably if no one had ever witnessed Christianity to them.

So, the compulsion to witness for Jesus presents a moral dilemma for these Christians. Logic dictates that preaching the gospel may actually be doing more harm than good for moral and righteous people by instituting a less reasonable criterion for salvation. Once a moral and righteous person becomes aware of Christianity, God can no longer judge that individual based on the person's character but must judge the person based on the individual's ability to have faith in an extraordinary claim about Jesus instead. How do Christians propose to resolve this moral dilemma?
 
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shnarkle

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Many Christians have explained to me that it is their duty to undertake the so-called "great commission" where they are compelled to spread the gospel message of salvation. They claim the Bible teaches that people are saved by faith in Jesus and not by doing good works. The implication being that people must be made aware of how Jesus sacrificed himself as payment for their sins and accept Christ in their hearts before God will permit them to enjoy an eternal afterlife in heaven. According to these Christians, they are warned that people who reject Jesus and his gift of salvation will not be permitted to enter the kingdom of God. How this criteria for salvation applies to people who lived-out their entire lives without ever having been exposed to Christianity is not entirely clear.

Many of us take for granted that almost everyone in the world today will have an opportunity to learn about Christianity either through indoctrination, cultural upbringing, public proselytizing, or the internet. Obviously, this has not always been the case. During the 1st century and for hundreds of years afterwords, the majority of people across the world would have known little to nothing about Jesus or Christianity. In fact, most cultures were completely oblivious to the gospel message. Of course, prior to the ministry of Jesus, absolutely no one believed in Christianity because it didn't yet exist. Where did all those people go when they died? Did God deny those people entrance into his kingdom for having never accepted Jesus in their hearts despite them having no knowledge that such a requirement existed? Are they being eternally punished in hell for worshiping false gods even though they never received spiritual guidance to the contrary by Christian missionaries or God himself?

Some Christian apologists suggest that God is merciful and does not fault those people for having never been provided the gospel. As such, many Christians believe that people who had no knowledge of Jesus or Christianity but lived a moral and righteous existence were judged fairly by God and were permitted into heaven after they died. We must infer from such theological reasoning that it would have been a disservice to educate them about Jesus because doing so would have increased their risk of being denied entrance into God's kingdom. This is because, had they received the gospel but were not convinced that the resurrection claim was true, God would have judged them negatively for their lack of faith even though they would have otherwise been judged favorably if no one had ever witnessed Christianity to them.

So, the compulsion to witness for Jesus presents a moral dilemma for these Christians. Logic dictates that preaching the gospel may actually be doing more harm than good for moral and righteous people by instituting a less reasonable criterion for salvation. Once a moral and righteous person becomes aware of Christianity, God can no longer judge that individual based on the person's character but must judge the person based on the individual's ability to have faith in an extraordinary claim about Jesus instead. How do Christians propose to resolve this moral dilemma?

You're essentially pointing out that with greater knowledge and power, comes greater responsibility. Christianity is essentially dead on arrival today. They have become lost in doctrines and dogmatic assumptions instead of looking at what the texts teach which is essentially self denial.

When an ambassador or diplomat comes "in the name" of their monarch, they come by the authority of that monarch. This is what "in the name" means. Christianity has forgotten the basic meaning of this phrase, and turned it into a magic formulation whereby one simply states Jesus' name in order to establish one's authority. This is the antithesis of what these texts are talking about.

One doesn't need to hear some Christian's pointless interpretation of the gospel in order to see that their self absorbed life is meaningless. Salvation comes to anyone who is able to break free from the bondage of selfishness. That process is what the bible refers to as God's salvation. It's literally what Jesus' name means.

The bible's claims really aren't extraordinary at all. The interpretations of Christians are extraordinary in their inability to hear the gospel and follow it.
 

Prayer Warrior

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I find this thread to be on the bizarre side of the track. Clearly, Christians have a mandate from our Lord Jesus Christ to "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature" (Mark 16L15).

As Christians across the earth fulfill this commission, people are giving their lives to Jesus Christ in record numbers! We can always point out the negatives of Christians not doing this perfectly, but God is working in amazing ways. I choose to look at what God is doing, sometimes in spite of us imperfect Christians!

Edit: Oh, the OP is an atheist. Didn't notice. I pray that he will find the Lord!
 
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Hidden In Him

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You're essentially pointing out that with greater knowledge and power, comes greater responsibility. Christianity is essentially dead on arrival today. They have become lost in doctrines and dogmatic assumptions instead of looking at what the texts teach which is essentially self denial.

When an ambassador or diplomat comes "in the name" of their monarch, they come by the authority of that monarch. This is what "in the name" means. Christianity has forgotten the basic meaning of this phrase, and turned it into a magic formulation whereby one simply states Jesus' name in order to establish one's authority. This is the antithesis of what these texts are talking about.

One doesn't need to hear some Christian's pointless interpretation of the gospel in order to see that their self absorbed life is meaningless. Salvation comes to anyone who is able to break free from the bondage of selfishness. That process is what the bible refers to as God's salvation. It's literally what Jesus' name means.

The bible's claims really aren't extraordinary at all. The interpretations of Christians are extraordinary in their inability to hear the gospel and follow it.

In many ways I like your response, Shnarkle. Brings the passage of how the Gentiles were "becoming a law unto themselves" in walking in obedience to God's moral law after they were born of the Spirit.

My answer to BlueGreenEarth (who unfortunately may not get to read this since he/she hasn't been around since the 5th) would be as follows:
We must infer from such theological reasoning that it would have been a disservice to educate them about Jesus because doing so would have increased their risk of being denied entrance into God's kingdom. This is because, had they received the gospel but were not convinced that the resurrection claim was true, God would have judged them negatively for their lack of faith even though they would have otherwise been judged favorably if no one had ever witnessed Christianity to them.

The gospel was also referred to by name as the gospel of the kingdom in many NT texts, and what this phrase meant was that Christ was going to reign as King over the earth in eternity. Those therefore who not only believed on Him but accepted Him as their Lord (implying a lifestyle change) were accepting the Lordship of He who would eventually be King over the planet. Those who rejected Him as their Lord were likewise rejecting Him who would be King in eternity.

This sort of eliminates the idea that they would have been judged favorably if they lived moral lives but not accepted Jesus as Lord. This is still a decision they would be held accountable for, and if they rejected Him and His teachings in this life, it would be a "tell" if you will on how they truly felt about Him.

This is the reason He has left it up to faith. Even sinners will bow to an all-powerful ruler out of a sense of fear and their need for self-preservation. But God finds out who truly loves Him by how much they are willing to submit to Him now, when doing so actually may cost the believer something (in persecution, hardships, opposition, etc). Those who make Him Lord over their lives before He assumes power are those who will be fit to enter the kingdom when He returns : )

Btw, Shnarkle, your avatar reads "other faith." Out of curiosity, what other faith do you belong to?
 
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shnarkle

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In many ways I like your response, Shnarkle. Brings the passage of how the Gentiles were "becoming a law unto themselves" in walking in obedience to God's moral law after they were born of the Spirit.

My answer to BlueGreenEarth (who unfortunately may not get to read this since he/she hasn't been around since the 5th) would be as follows:


The gospel was also referred to by name as the gospel of the kingdom in many NT texts, and what this phrase meant was that Christ was going to reign as King over the earth in eternity. Those therefore who not only believed on Him but accepted Him as their Lord (implying a lifestyle change) were accepting the Lordship of He who would eventually be King over the planet. Those who rejected Him as their Lord were likewise rejecting Him who would be King in eternity.

This sort of eliminates the idea that they would have been judged favorably if they lived moral lives but not accepted Jesus as Lord. This is still a decision they would be held accountable for, and if they rejected Him and His teachings in this life, it would be a "tell" if you will on how they truly felt about Him.

This is the reason He has left it up to faith. Even sinners will bow to an all-powerful ruler out of a sense of fear and their need for self-preservation. But God finds out who truly loves Him by how much they are willing to submit to Him now, when doing so actually may cost the believer something (in persecution, hardships, opposition, etc). Those who make Him Lord over their lives before He assumes power are those who will be fit to enter the kingdom when He returns : )

Btw, Shnarkle, your avatar reads "other faith." Out of curiosity, what other faith do you belong to?

The way I see it isn't about waiting for Christ to return to rule over the world. Instead, it's more about seeing that Christ sustains the world, and living or abiding in, with, and through Christ. When we see this, there is no other option.

I don't belong to a faith or belief system. Faith or belief systems are based upon theologies, doctrines, dogmatic assumptions, etc. Christ didn't come to start a new religion, or introduce new doctrines. He came to manifest God's salvation. It's the difference between theology and theophany, or a Christology and Christophany.

Doctrines will never manifest the fruit of the Spirit.
 

farouk

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The way I see it isn't about waiting for Christ to return to rule over the world. Instead, it's more about seeing that Christ sustains the world, and living or abiding in, with, and through Christ. When we see this, there is no other option.

I don't belong to a faith or belief system. Faith or belief systems are based upon theologies, doctrines, dogmatic assumptions, etc. Christ didn't come to start a new religion, or introduce new doctrines. He came to manifest God's salvation. It's the difference between theology and theophany, or a Christology and Christophany.

Doctrines will never manifest the fruit of the Spirit.
Well, the Lord Jesus Himself said, 'Sanctify them through Thy truth; Thy word is truth' (John 17.17).
 

shnarkle

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Well, the Lord Jesus Himself said, 'Sanctify them through Thy truth; Thy word is truth' (John 17.17).
Yep. It's not something that we need to wait for. We have his word with us today. Jesus says that he did not come to condemn, but that his words will condemn those who don't adhere or abide in them. That can only happen now. Those who wait are damned.
 
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marks

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even though they would have otherwise been judged favorably if no one had ever witnessed Christianity to them.

Right here is a Major assumption.

Yes I believe that God does not hold people responsible for that which they are not told, do not know.

Just the same,

We all have a conscience, a sense of right and wrong. Even if you don't consider yourself wrong, you sure know when others are wrong! So you know right and wrong, at least to some degree.

Who has not done that which they knew was wrong to do? No one need convict anyone else of wrongdoing. God has put a voice in each one of us, telling us right from wrong, and we are guilty. Everyone. And you know this.

I surmise that the lunatic who truly believes they are morally perfect in all ways, and have been always, I imagine if someone is that much a mess, God will have some mercy.

Creation itself tells us two very important things, that there is Someone who made all of this, and therefore is supreme over all of this.

Someone put us here. And we know what that Someone wants. And we know that we've failed. Are you so certain judgment remains favorable?

Much love!
 

Enoch111

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Many Christians have explained to me that it is their duty to undertake the so-called "great commission" where they are compelled to spread the gospel message of salvation.
Since you are an Atheist why do you bother with Christians? Be happy in your delusions and move on. Atheists want the freedom to promote their nonsense, but they don't want Christians preaching the Gospel.
 

marks

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Why are you engaging with an Atheist and wasting your time? Move on.
Why do you monitor and direct my time? I like to promote "Critical Thinking", which seems to be a dying art these days.

Much love!

btw . . . isn't that what you are doing in post 11?
 
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Enoch111

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Why do you monitor and direct my time?
I have no interest in monitoring you or what you have to say say. So if you wish to continue wasting your time on nonsense, go right ahead.
 
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Nancy

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Many Christians have explained to me that it is their duty to undertake the so-called "great commission" where they are compelled to spread the gospel message of salvation. They claim the Bible teaches that people are saved by faith in Jesus and not by doing good works. The implication being that people must be made aware of how Jesus sacrificed himself as payment for their sins and accept Christ in their hearts before God will permit them to enjoy an eternal afterlife in heaven. According to these Christians, they are warned that people who reject Jesus and his gift of salvation will not be permitted to enter the kingdom of God. How this criteria for salvation applies to people who lived-out their entire lives without ever having been exposed to Christianity is not entirely clear.

Many of us take for granted that almost everyone in the world today will have an opportunity to learn about Christianity either through indoctrination, cultural upbringing, public proselytizing, or the internet. Obviously, this has not always been the case. During the 1st century and for hundreds of years afterwords, the majority of people across the world would have known little to nothing about Jesus or Christianity. In fact, most cultures were completely oblivious to the gospel message. Of course, prior to the ministry of Jesus, absolutely no one believed in Christianity because it didn't yet exist. Where did all those people go when they died? Did God deny those people entrance into his kingdom for having never accepted Jesus in their hearts despite them having no knowledge that such a requirement existed? Are they being eternally punished in hell for worshiping false gods even though they never received spiritual guidance to the contrary by Christian missionaries or God himself?

Some Christian apologists suggest that God is merciful and does not fault those people for having never been provided the gospel. As such, many Christians believe that people who had no knowledge of Jesus or Christianity but lived a moral and righteous existence were judged fairly by God and were permitted into heaven after they died. We must infer from such theological reasoning that it would have been a disservice to educate them about Jesus because doing so would have increased their risk of being denied entrance into God's kingdom. This is because, had they received the gospel but were not convinced that the resurrection claim was true, God would have judged them negatively for their lack of faith even though they would have otherwise been judged favorably if no one had ever witnessed Christianity to them.

So, the compulsion to witness for Jesus presents a moral dilemma for these Christians. Logic dictates that preaching the gospel may actually be doing more harm than good for moral and righteous people by instituting a less reasonable criterion for salvation. Once a moral and righteous person becomes aware of Christianity, God can no longer judge that individual based on the person's character but must judge the person based on the individual's ability to have faith in an extraordinary claim about Jesus instead. How do Christians propose to resolve this moral dilemma?

Ah yes, ignorance is bliss, lol.

"For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, since they show that the work of the Law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them."
Romans 2:14-15

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the NATIONS, (or, Nationalities) and then the end will come."Matthew 24:14

God judges Nations, not just individuals.
We do not know when this will come about, but as soon as it does, then the end of this life as we know it. His word also say's: "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."
Romans 1:20
Psalm 19:1
"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands."
Jeremiah 5:21
"Hear this, O foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see, who have ears but do not hear."

I'm pretty sure that you will close your eyes and ears to anything in the written Word but, I am just giving you my take on what you posted. "Satan blinds the minds of the un believers..."
I was blind to all of this for most of my life, not anymore as I have experienced how He works and, there is no going back for me...I tasted what this world has to offer and it NEVER fills but, you have to keep filling your cup with the things of the world that might give you pleasure for a season but...it never lasts...HIS cup does not have holes in it and when one fills their lives what He has to offer, their cups run over and you become full to the fullest and lack no good thing. JMO
Peace

 
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Matthias

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Why are you engaging with an Atheist and wasting your time? Move on.

Atheists are potential believers in response to hearing the gospel. Some have, more will. It’s not possible to know in advance who will and who won’t. I’ve wasted my time with many people but I’ve never considered it a waste of my time to present the gospel to anyone.
 

Jack

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Evangelism today is mostly about $$$. LOTS of filthy rich preachers!
 

Matthias

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Evangelism today is mostly about $$$. LOTS of filthy rich preachers!

If true, that doesn’t speak well for Christianity.

Is it really true? Or is it just that charlatans masquerading as Christians are the ones in the spotlight?

Evangelism, I would argue, should be done by all believers, not only by “preachers”.
 

Jack

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If true, that doesn’t speak well for Christianity.

Is it really true? Or is it just that charlatans masquerading as Christians are the ones in the spotlight?

Evangelism should be done by all believers, not only by “preachers”.
I don't know many preachers that don't ask for $$$. I don't find that in the Bible.