One Baptism

marks · Nov 18, 2019

Ephesians 4
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Romans 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

According to these Scriptures, there is One Baptism, and that is being baptized into Christ.

What we call "being baptized in the Holy Spirit" I believe is actually what the Bible calls being filled with the Holy Spirit, which is something that the Holy Spirit does with us at various times in our lives.

But there is no "second benefit" as some would say, meaning that we, being children of God, lack the power of God until we are baptized in the Holy Spirit.

We are baptized into Christ, the actual baptism, and we are empowered by God being reborn. We aren't waiting for something more from God, we only need believe that He has already given us everything needed for life and godliness.

Much love!

ScottA · Nov 18, 2019

marks said:
Ephesians 4
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Romans 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

According to these Scriptures, there is One Baptism, and that is being baptized into Christ.

What we call "being baptized in the Holy Spirit" I believe is actually what the Bible calls being filled with the Holy Spirit, which is something that the Holy Spirit does with us at various times in our lives.

But there is no "second benefit" as some would say, meaning that we, being children of God, lack the power of God until we are baptized in the Holy Spirit.

We are baptized into Christ, the actual baptism, and we are empowered by God being reborn. We aren't waiting for something more from God, we only need believe that He has already given us everything needed for life and godliness.

Much love!

Amen to that!

Of course the religious will want to make a works or elements or worldly thing out of it, giving honor to what is manifest, rather than to Him who makes manifest.

Ernest T. Bass · Nov 19, 2019

The "One baptism" refers to Christ's baptism of the great commission.

Christ's baptism of the great commission: (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16)
--saves
--is commanded
--is for all men
--is administered by men
--is how disciples are made
--lasts till the end of the world.

None of these are true about baptism with the Holy Spirit. Baptism with the Holy Spirit was a prophecy of Joel, Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:" The phrase "all flesh" does not mean every single person nor does it refer to animals even though animals have flesh. "All flesh" refers to the two main divisions of man kind as they saw it back then: Jew and Gentile.

This prophecy of Joel was fulfilled beginning in Acts 2. In Acts 2 the Holy Spirit came upon the Apostles and the Apostles spoke in tongues. Peter then clearly points out in Acts of the Apostles 2:16 that " this (Holy Spirit falling upon the Apostles) is that (Joel's prophecy being fulfilled) which was spoken by the prophet Joel." Peter directly ties the Holy Spirit falling upon the Apostles with Joel's prophecy. The Apostles were Jews and Jew made up half of man kind, half of the "all flesh".

In Acts 10 we see the total fulfillment of Joel's prophecy when the Holy Spirit fell upon Cornelius, a Gentile. In Acts 11:15 Peter ties the Holy Spirit falling upon the Gentiles to "the beginning" at Pentecost in Acts 2 when the Holy Spirit fell upon the Jewish Apostles. Thus we have Joel's prophecy about the Holy SPirit fulfilled, ceased, brought to and end having "all flesh" Jew and Gentile baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Hence baptism with the Holy Spirit does not exist today. If it does exist today, then Joel's prophecy remains UNfulfilled (UNaccomplished) and every jot and tittle of the OT remains in effect and binding upon us today, Matthew 5:17-18

If baptism with the HS still exists today and person has not been baptized with the HS, whose fault would that be? Since only the Lord can baptize with the HS, whose fault would it be?

marks · Nov 19, 2019

ScottA said:
giving honor to what is manifest, rather than to Him who makes manifest.

Hi Scott,

That's a good way to put it!

Much love!

marks · Nov 19, 2019

Ernest T. Bass said:
If baptism with the HS still exists today and person has not been baptized with the HS, whose fault would that be? Since only the Lord can baptize with the HS, whose fault would it be?

That's an interesting question!

While we disagree over what this One Baptism is, just the same, one might reply to you, Yes, only the Lord can baptize with the Holy Spirit, but we must be believing to receive.

Personally I think this is what applies to being born again, we need to be believing that we Have received.

Much love!

Enoch111 · Nov 19, 2019

marks said:
According to these Scriptures, there is One Baptism, and that is being baptized into Christ.

According to these Scripture there are TWO BAPTISMS:

1. Baptism with the Spirit: One Lord, one faith, one baptism...

2. Baptism by immersion in water: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death...

How are we buried with Christ? Metaphorically. Baptism by immersion is a picture of death, burial, and resurrection. Hence "raised to walk in newness of life".

Hidden In Him · Nov 19, 2019

marks said:
Ephesians 4
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Romans 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Hey, Marks! Listen, I don't have the energy for going back and forth on this cuz I'm still burned out from our other recent conversations, LoL. But I never did get around to answering this for you so I'll try to do so succinctly here:

Both these passages are referring to water baptism. Ephesians 4:4 reads, "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling." In context, the "one hope of our calling" here is reference to our hope of being raised up together with Christ as one body in Him at the resurrection of the dead. Hence it is followed with a reference to water baptism, which symbolized being buried with Him by baptism unto death and then resurrected unto newness of life.

Now if read out of context, the stand alone statement "one baptism" can be taken as saying "there is no second blessing," or "no baptism in the Holy Spirit as a second experience." But this is reading it out of context. Understand, his driving point in this passage was not to make a comment on how many baptisms there were in the Christian faith. His driving point in Ephesians was to teach them unity, and the importance of viewing themselves as one body in Christ, sharing a common faith, a common hope, a common Spirit, a common baptism. As Paul said in Corinthians, "were you baptized into Paul?" (or Apollos, or Peter, etc). There he was talking about water baptism, and so too, here. We are all baptized into Christ, and in Him alone we have our unity.

Hence, in context, by "one baptism," our universal baptism into Christ's death is what he had in view here.

I know you disagree, so feel free to give your refutation of it, but I'll probably sit this one out for now. Maybe we can get back to discussing it in full some day.

Blessings in Christ, and interesting thread to be discussing. Glad you posted it!
HiH

Not me · Nov 19, 2019

marks said:
But there is no "second benefit" as some would say, meaning that we, being children of God, lack the power of God until we are baptized in the Holy Spirit.

I would agree that at the moment the Divine Nature is born into a person that person now has all the capacity to grow into a full grown man in Christ. But this birth like all births needs to grow. What some people have phrased as a “second benefit” or a “second blessings” is (I feel) just a deeper understanding of what our salvation in Christ consists of. Even to the extent that their revelation into the mystery of Christ in them is so great they call it a “second benefit or second blessings” for in it they are so blessed they have coined the phrase....... “second benefit or blessings”.

Just something for food for thought??

Be blessed in Him, Not me

Ernest T. Bass · Nov 19, 2019

marks said:
That's an interesting question!

While we disagree over what this One Baptism is, just the same, one might reply to you, Yes, only the Lord can baptize with the Holy Spirit, but we must be believing to receive.

Personally I think this is what applies to being born again, we need to be believing that we Have received.

Much love!

Water baptism has been commanded therefore if man does not obey that command it is man's culpability. Baptism with the Holy Spirit was never commanded to anyone, only promised to the Apostles Acts 1:1-5. Hence baptism with the HS is not something man can obey.
--Why did the Spirit send for Phillip to teach and water baptize the eunuch rather than the Spirit just baptize the eunuch Himself?

THe purpose of water baptism is for the remission of sins, Acts 2:38. If you think people today are baptized with the Holy Spirit, what is the purpose of baptism with the HS? Is baptism with the HS done to bring salvation to the lost? Or must one first be saved then receives baptism with the HS? The Apostles were already saved (sins already remitted) when they were baptized with the HS (Acts 1:1-5) so the baptism of Acts 2:38 could not be baptism with the HS.

Ernest T. Bass · Nov 19, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
Hey, Marks! Listen, I don't have the energy for going back and forth on this cuz I'm still burned out from our other recent conversations, LoL. But I never did get around to answering this for you so I'll try to do so succinctly here:

Both these passages are referring to water baptism. Ephesians 4:4 reads, "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling." In context, the "one hope of our calling" here is reference to our hope of being raised up together with Christ as one body in Him at the resurrection of the dead. Hence it is followed with a reference to water baptism, which symbolized being buried with Him by baptism unto death and then resurrected unto newness of life.

Now if read out of context, the stand alone statement "one baptism" can be taken as saying "there is no second blessing," or "no baptism in the Holy Spirit as a second experience." But this is reading it out of context. Understand, his driving point in this passage was not to make a comment on how many baptisms there were in the Christian faith. His driving point in Ephesians was to teach them unity, and the importance of viewing themselves as one body in Christ, sharing a common faith, a common hope, a common Spirit, a common baptism. As Paul said in Corinthians, "were you baptized into Paul?" (or Apollos, or Peter, etc). There he was talking about water baptism, and so too, here. We are all baptized into Christ, and in Him alone we have our unity.

Hence, in context, by "one baptism," our universal baptism into Christ's death is what he had in view here.

I know you disagree, so feel free to give your refutation of it, but I'll probably sit this one out for now. Maybe we can get back to discussing it in full some day.

Blessings in Christ, and interesting thread to be discussing. Glad you posted it!
HiH

In regards to Eph 4:5 and "one baptism" F.F. Bruce noted: “baptism in the New Testament is always baptism in water unless the context shows it to be something else; that is to say, the word is always to be understood literally unless the context indicates a figurative meaning” (Questions Answered, p. 106). Baptism is not being used figuratively in Eph 4:5, it means a literal burial in water.

marks · Nov 20, 2019

Not me said:
I would agree that at the moment the Divine Nature is born into a person that person now has all the capacity to grow into a full grown man in Christ. But this birth like all births needs to grow. What some people have phrased as a “second benefit” or a “second blessings” is (I feel) just a deeper understanding of what our salvation in Christ consists of. Even to the extent that their revelation into the mystery of Christ in them is so great they call it a “second benefit or second blessings” for in it they are so blessed they have coined the phrase....... “second benefit or blessings”.

Just something for food for thought??

Be blessed in Him, Not me

Hi not me,

I think this is correct.

According to Peter we have all we need for life and Godliness.

I remember a time many years ago, when I felt the desire for more power in my life from God. I was praying one night, and I asked God for His power. I opened my Bible and read what I saw, and as I read the words, Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the LORD, I received the understanding that I was to go to the pastor of the church I had been attending, who would lay hands on me, and I would receive.

So I did. It was assistant pastor Luis Garza, who, I'm certain, believed he was praying that I would be baptised in the Holy Spirit. He layed hands on me, then coached me in speaking in tongues, which I did not do. I still do not. Just the same . . .

When I drove out of the parking lot, I felt different. By the time I was 10 minutes away, I begin to be so filled with Joy I could only laugh, and laugh, and laugh, knowing my life was forever changed, and it was!

I was fairly confused over this for some time. I've never read in the Bible any teaching about what men call "baptism of the Holy Spirit" aside from what occurred at Pentecost, and what happens when we are born again. This remains to this day crystal clear to me.

But what happened?

I think this is what gets confusing. We do read in the Bible of Christians being "filled with the Holy Spirit", and this happens after salvation.

And since that time, I've seen now where this does happen over and over, and I've seen sometimes just the same as that time, well, but different, but where God has just Done Something in me, my joy overflows, I'm filled with His power, and it changes me.

Sometimes as dramatic as that one time, other times, well, different.

I think people have these life changing encounters with the Holy Spirit, and ascribe that to a "second work", not realizing this is part of God's way of working in us through the years, and, what excitement awaits the children of God in the amazing things He will yet do!

If it's a "second benefit", then there is a third, and fourth, and fifth, and so long as life endures.

I think you are right, that people become so overwhelmed with the wonder of what God does in them, that they ascribe a special status, not realizing, this is now to be life as we know it.

God will give the Holy Spirit to him who asks.

If you believe that, you can ask Him to fill you with His Spirit today. Then sit back in your chair and begin to joy in the Holy Spirit, as He fills you up again, just like God said He would.

Much love!

marks · Nov 20, 2019

Ernest T. Bass said:
In regards to Eph 4:5 and "one baptism" F.F. Bruce noted: “baptism in the New Testament is always baptism in water unless the context shows it to be something else; that is to say, the word is always to be understood literally unless the context indicates a figurative meaning” (Questions Answered, p. 106). Baptism is not being used figuratively in Eph 4:5, it means a literal burial in water.

Hi Ernest,

This quote, doesn't then this say there are Two baptisms or more? We know that we are baptised into Christ. When we include baptized in water, doesn't that make two, when Ephesians says there is one?

Much love!

marks · Nov 20, 2019

Enoch111 said:
According to these Scripture there are TWO BAPTISMS:

1. Baptism with the Spirit: One Lord, one faith, one baptism...

2. Baptism by immersion in water: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death...

How are we buried with Christ? Metaphorically. Baptism by immersion is a picture of death, burial, and resurrection. Hence "raised to walk in newness of life".

How do you answer the contradiction, as Ephesians teaches, there is one baptism?

marks · Nov 20, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
Now if read out of context, the stand alone statement "one baptism" can be taken as saying "there is no second blessing," or "no baptism in the Holy Spirit as a second experience." But this is reading it out of context. Understand, his driving point in this passage was not to make a comment on how many baptisms there were in the Christian faith. His driving point in Ephesians was to teach them unity, and the importance of viewing themselves as one body in Christ, sharing a common faith, a common hope, a common Spirit, a common baptism. As Paul said in Corinthians, "were you baptized into Paul?" (or Apollos, or Peter, etc). There he was talking about water baptism, and so too, here. We are all baptized into Christ, and in Him alone we have our unity.

Hence, in context, by "one baptism," our universal baptism into Christ's death is what he had in view here.

I would agree with you, that in this context, the one baptism is in fact our baptism into Christ. But I don't see the Bible as being contradictory, so that a statement that is true within it's context, if given as a declarative statement, remains true even as an independent statement.

For instance, "For God so loved the worlds that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever should believe upon His shall not perish, but have eternal life", we can take one small part, "He gave His only begotten Son", and it remains as declarative as the entire statement.

In the same way, this clause, "one baptism", is a simple declarative statement. Why should we not consider it actually true?

We are all baptized into Christ, and in Him alone we have our unity.

Amen!

Much love!

Not me · Nov 20, 2019

marks said:
Hi not me,

I think this is correct.

According to Peter we have all we need for life and Godliness.

I remember a time many years ago, when I felt the desire for more power in my life from God. I was praying one night, and I asked God for His power. I opened my Bible and read what I saw, and as I read the words, Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the LORD, I received the understanding that I was to go to the pastor of the church I had been attending, who would lay hands on me, and I would receive.

So I did. It was assistant pastor Luis Garza, who, I'm certain, believed he was praying that I would be baptised in the Holy Spirit. He layed hands on me, then coached me in speaking in tongues, which I did not do. I still do not. Just the same . . .

When I drove out of the parking lot, I felt different. By the time I was 10 minutes away, I begin to be so filled with Joy I could only laugh, and laugh, and laugh, knowing my life was forever changed, and it was!

I was fairly confused over this for some time. I've never read in the Bible any teaching about what men call "baptism of the Holy Spirit" aside from what occurred at Pentecost, and what happens when we are born again. This remains to this day crystal clear to me.

But what happened?

I think this is what gets confusing. We do read in the Bible of Christians being "filled with the Holy Spirit", and this happens after salvation.

And since that time, I've seen now where this does happen over and over, and I've seen sometimes just the same as that time, well, but different, but where God has just Done Something in me, my joy overflows, I'm filled with His power, and it changes me.

Sometimes as dramatic as that one time, other times, well, different.

I think people have these life changing encounters with the Holy Spirit, and ascribe that to a "second work", not realizing this is part of God's way of working in us through the years, and, what excitement awaits the children of God in the amazing things He will yet do!

If it's a "second benefit", then there is a third, and fourth, and fifth, and so long as life endures.

I think you are right, that people become so overwhelmed with the wonder of what God does in them, that they ascribe a special status, not realizing, this is now to be life as we know it.

God will give the Holy Spirit to him who asks.

If you believe that, you can ask Him to fill you with His Spirit today. Then sit back in your chair and begin to joy in the Holy Spirit, as He fills you up again, just like God said He would.

Much love!

Thank you for sharing some of the experiences you’ve had with God. It is always a pleasure to read how God works in another believer’s life.

May God so fill you with Himself that your joy and peace, wisdom and knowledge of God would know know bounds.

In Christ a fellow believer, Not me

Enoch111 · Nov 20, 2019

marks said:
How do you answer the contradiction, as Ephesians teaches, there is one baptism?

CONTEXT! CONTEXT! CONTEXT!

Of the doctrine of baptisms [PLURAL], and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (Hebrews 6:2)

Baptism #1: The baptism with the Holy Spirit (Christ the Baptizer)
Baptism #2: The baptism by the Holy Spirit (the Spirit the Baptizer)
Baptism #3: Christian baptism by immersion in water (still valid)
Baptism #4: The baptism with fire (affliction, persecution, martyrdom)
Baptism #5: The baptism of John the Baptizer (no longer valid)

GTW27 · Nov 20, 2019

marks said:
Hi not me,

I think this is correct.

According to Peter we have all we need for life and Godliness.

I remember a time many years ago, when I felt the desire for more power in my life from God. I was praying one night, and I asked God for His power. I opened my Bible and read what I saw, and as I read the words, Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the LORD, I received the understanding that I was to go to the pastor of the church I had been attending, who would lay hands on me, and I would receive.

So I did. It was assistant pastor Luis Garza, who, I'm certain, believed he was praying that I would be baptised in the Holy Spirit. He layed hands on me, then coached me in speaking in tongues, which I did not do. I still do not. Just the same . . .

When I drove out of the parking lot, I felt different. By the time I was 10 minutes away, I begin to be so filled with Joy I could only laugh, and laugh, and laugh, knowing my life was forever changed, and it was!

I was fairly confused over this for some time. I've never read in the Bible any teaching about what men call "baptism of the Holy Spirit" aside from what occurred at Pentecost, and what happens when we are born again. This remains to this day crystal clear to me.

But what happened?

I think this is what gets confusing. We do read in the Bible of Christians being "filled with the Holy Spirit", and this happens after salvation.

And since that time, I've seen now where this does happen over and over, and I've seen sometimes just the same as that time, well, but different, but where God has just Done Something in me, my joy overflows, I'm filled with His power, and it changes me.

Sometimes as dramatic as that one time, other times, well, different.

I think people have these life changing encounters with the Holy Spirit, and ascribe that to a "second work", not realizing this is part of God's way of working in us through the years, and, what excitement awaits the children of God in the amazing things He will yet do!

If it's a "second benefit", then there is a third, and fourth, and fifth, and so long as life endures.

I think you are right, that people become so overwhelmed with the wonder of what God does in them, that they ascribe a special status, not realizing, this is now to be life as we know it.

God will give the Holy Spirit to him who asks.

If you believe that, you can ask Him to fill you with His Spirit today. Then sit back in your chair and begin to joy in the Holy Spirit, as He fills you up again, just like God said He would.

Much love!

Blessings in Christ Jesus! Perhaps it's time to unwrap a Gift you have had since way back then. For everything there is a season. Below are four things I did just a few years ago to receive the Gift of Tongues. So I, like you, have walked many years not knowing that this gift was there all along as He has been there all along. "And they shall speak in new tongues". There it is, do you believe it? I know you do, as you believe everything He has said or promised. And here is what I did to receive:
1. Believe it is The Lord's will for you to have this gift.
2. Go ask Him for it. (In prayer)
3. Thank Him for this gift. (Act of Faith)
4. Now go do something you have never done before.
When i did this back then, during my prayer time(I went into my bedroom for normal prayers) by the time I entered the living room I opened my mouth and out flowed a beautiful new language. I was amazed and instantly new I had this gift all along. It brings new meaning to the words,"In the world but not of it." This gift brings power to our prayers especially when we know not what to pray. For those of you who have doubts about the Gift of Tongues, for there is false tongues, and there is demonic tongues, this is a true testimony of how to receive the True Gift of Tongues from The Holy Spirit as Paul speaks of. Our Heavenly Father likes to give good Gifts to those that believe.

Marymog · Nov 20, 2019

marks said:
Ephesians 4
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Romans 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

According to these Scriptures, there is One Baptism, and that is being baptized into Christ.

What we call "being baptized in the Holy Spirit" I believe is actually what the Bible calls being filled with the Holy Spirit, which is something that the Holy Spirit does with us at various times in our lives.

But there is no "second benefit" as some would say, meaning that we, being children of God, lack the power of God until we are baptized in the Holy Spirit.

We are baptized into Christ, the actual baptism, and we are empowered by God being reborn. We aren't waiting for something more from God, we only need believe that He has already given us everything needed for life and godliness.

Much love!

Hi....What is an "actual baptism"?

Nondenom40 · Nov 20, 2019

marks said:
How do you answer the contradiction, as Ephesians teaches, there is one baptism?

I don't believe its a contradiction at all. Can a person arrive in heaven without the Holy Spirit in their life? Can a person arrive in heaven having only been water baptized? Paul even said 'Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel.' Paul separates water baptism from the gospel. Everyone that receives the gospel receives the Holy Spirit. Not everyone that is water baptized receives the Holy Spirit as the faith or gospel they submit to may very well be wrong. A false gospel saves no one.

marks · Nov 20, 2019

Nondenom40 said:
I don't believe its a contradiction at all. Can a person arrive in heaven without the Holy Spirit in their life? Can a person arrive in heaven having only been water baptized? Paul even said 'Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel.' Paul separates water baptism from the gospel. Everyone that receives the gospel receives the Holy Spirit. Not everyone that is water baptized receives the Holy Spirit as the faith or gospel they submit to may very well be wrong. A false gospel saves no one.

Hi ND40,

It's not water baptism that I think is the one baptism, rather, that we are immersed into Christ. Like you've pointed out, Paul was not sent to baptize but to preach the gospel.

The 11 apostles, then 12 after Matthais was chosen, they Were sent to baptize, but Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, was not sent to baptize.

Much love!

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