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soul man

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John 3:3,
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Hebrews 4:12,

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

There are words in your bible that are what is called keystone words. Two words stand out more than any other words in your bible as being keystone to your understanding. The word keystone means; "to bring together the whole or locking together."

The first word is born; born is the greatest of all words in your bible. In John 3:3 it says you must be BORN again. This is THE keystone word for you to understand, all your understanding will hinge on this small four letter word. You will not advance your understanding until you get this word fixed in you as your salvation. What does that mean "as your salvation," it means you were saved the moment you believed and were BORN again. You can nolonger feel you have a works related salvation, if you do you have not seen what your father did the moment you believed. The word birthing was coined from this verse as a way to describe to term.

You may have a strong passion for Abraham, or King David, or feel a word from Isaiah, but they are men. In John 3:3 you have a word directly from the Son of God Himself. Who's word should we accept. I'm just as passionate about the Old Testament, it is all I preached for years but it does not compare to a word from the Son of God.

The next keystone word is Divide. The word divide is used by Paul to help us see into the scripture. When the written word is properly divided we see the birthing. There was no birthing in the Old Testament, that makes this word "divide" imperative to your understanding. Paul divides scripture, and he divides soul and spirit. Without the word study fixed in you, you can grow but only so far and you will become stagnate. The river has to flow, it cannot be clogged by anything that hinders the flow.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Here is my analogy of what it is like when our carnal nature is baptized in the Holy Spirit and born again: "It is like being born with the nature of a lion, loving to kill, and having only a taste for blood and fresh meat. But the law says to not kill and only eat grass. Then that lion becomes born again into a divine new creature, a lamb. The lamb never desires to kill and loves to only eat fresh green grass. Therefore that law to not kill and eat only grass is very easy for the lamb, but impossible for the lion." You see, the lamb couldn't kill and eat meat and blood even once. It has no desire to. It is not in their nature. We do what comes naturally: either that of a lion, or that of a lamb. You can’t be both.

1 John 3:9 is not practicing sin, but commit. That is not even one time.
 
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reformed1689

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Here is my analogy of what it is like when our carnal nature is baptized in the Holy Spirit and born again: "It is like being born with the nature of a lion, loving to kill, and having only a taste for blood and fresh meat. But the law says to not kill and only eat grass. Then that lion becomes born again into a divine new creature, a lamb. The lamb never desires to kill and loves to only eat fresh green grass. Therefore that law to not kill and eat only grass is very easy for the lamb, but impossible for the lion." You see, the lamb couldn't kill and eat meat and blood even once. It has no desire to. It is not in their nature. We do what comes naturally: either that of a lion, or that of a lamb. You can’t be both.

1 John 3:9 is not practicing sin, but commit. That is not even one time.
Oh here we go again with this nonsense that we are somehow no longer capable of committing sin once saved even though the Bible says the EXACT OPPOSITE.
 

CharismaticLady

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Oh here we go again with this nonsense that we are somehow no longer capable of committing sin once saved even though the Bible says the EXACT OPPOSITE.

Where? Let's see if you are going to quote the same scriptures describing the unsaved that you in ignorance quoted previously.

And let's see if you know the difference between sins unto death that we cannot commit, and sins not unto death that we still commit, but are automatically cleansed if we meet the requirements. What are the requirements. Prove you are not totally spiritually dense.
 
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reformed1689

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Where? Let's see if you are going to quote the same scriptures describing the unsaved that you in ignorance quoted previously.

And let's see if you know the difference between sins unto death that we cannot commit, and sins not unto death that we still commit, but are automatically cleansed if we meet the requirements. What are the requirements. Prove you are not totally spiritually dense.
I've already proven it. Yes, Paul says in Romans he continues to sin. James says to confess your sins one to another. These are written to BELIEVERS and talking about BELIEVERS.
 

CharismaticLady

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I've already proven it. Yes, Paul says in Romans he continues to sin. James says to confess your sins one to another. These are written to BELIEVERS and talking about BELIEVERS.

Maybe to yourself you've proved it, but it is against the Spirit. Has anyone ever taught you to read in context??? CONTEXT! CONTEXT! CONTEXT!

As many times as you've been shown the truth, you are totally stubborn, and you are being spoken to in Proverbs 1:7
 

reformed1689

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Maybe to yourself you've proved it, but it is against the Spirit. Has anyone ever taught you to read in context??? CONTEXT! CONTEXT! CONTEXT!

As many times as you've been shown the truth, you are totally stubborn, and you are being spoken to in Proverbs 1:7
Sorry, you have it turned around. As many times as YOU have been shown the truth you are totally stubborn. Scripture is clear that we are still capable of sin even after salvation. If you say you have not sinned since salvation you are a liar. Plain and simple.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Sorry, you have it turned around. As many times as YOU have been shown the truth you are totally stubborn. Scripture is clear that we are still capable of sin even after salvation. If you say you have not sinned since salvation you are a liar. Plain and simple.

Then look at it this way. If you say you are a Christian but do not have the Spirit to keep you from sinning, and you continue to walk in the flesh and sin - the wages of sin is death. Those who walk in the flesh can never please God. Those who continue to sin are a slave to sin. And those who walk in the flesh will never inherit the Kingdom of God. And neither will the teachers who brainwashed you.

We must be born again of the Spirit. You cannot serve two masters. I just quoted a bunch of Scriptures by Paul. Those are not my words. Don't you know there are loads of Christians that are depending on Christ to take them to heaven, and to have covered their sins on earth while they keep sinning, and Jesus will say to them "I never knew you. Depart from me you workers of wickedness."

Somehow, someway, WAKE UP! And if you teach your baloney and those kids go to hell because of you, it will be better if a milestone had been put around your neck and you were cast into the sea. Teachers receive a stricter judgment. You are NOT teaching holiness, and without holiness, neither you nor your students will see God.
 
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Preacher4Truth

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Where? Let's see if you are going to quote the same scriptures describing the unsaved that you in ignorance quoted previously.

And let's see if you know the difference between sins unto death that we cannot commit, and sins not unto death that we still commit, but are automatically cleansed if we meet the requirements. What are the requirements. Prove you are not totally spiritually dense.
The sinless one certainly can post some ugly responses like the above. That's comes forth from our evil what's, according to Scripture?
 

reformed1689

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Then look at it this way. If you say you are a Christian but do not have the Spirit to keep you from sinning, and you continue to walk in the flesh and sin - the wages of sin is death. Those who walk in the flesh can never please God. Those who continue to sin are a slave to sin. And those who walk in the flesh will never inherit the Kingdom of God. And neither will the teachers who brainwashed you.

We must be born again of the Spirit. You cannot serve two masters. I just quoted a bunch of Scriptures by Paul. Those are not my words. Don't you know there are loads of Christians that are depending on Christ to take them to heaven, and to have covered their sins on earth while they keep sinning, and Jesus will say to them "I never knew you. Depart from me you workers of wickedness."

Somehow, someway, WAKE UP! And if you teach your baloney and those kids go to hell because of you, it will be better if a milestone had been put around your neck and you were cast into the sea. Teachers receive a stricter judgment. You are NOT teaching holiness, and without holiness, neither you nor your students will see God.
The only baloney here is that you teach people that they must be perfect after salvation or they are not saved. That is not found anywhere in Scripture and is, in fact, told in Scripture to be a lie as I have already pointed out but you tend to gloss over because it doesn't fit your ideology. Granted, you come from a camp that also believes there is a heavenly prayer language that we should be gifted with despite the fact there is nothing in Scripture to support it either. So I guess you are all about going on about things that aren't actually in Scripture.
 

Episkopos

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The only baloney here is that you teach people that they must be perfect after salvation or they are not saved. That is not found anywhere in Scripture and is, in fact, told in Scripture to be a lie as I have already pointed out but you tend to gloss over because it doesn't fit your ideology. Granted, you come from a camp that also believes there is a heavenly prayer language that we should be gifted with despite the fact there is nothing in Scripture to support it either. So I guess you are all about going on about things that aren't actually in Scripture.


If you ever get to know yourself you will realize that you...and most people ...read into the bible as they already are. So then when you read something like...be holy as God is holy...you think that is some kind of impossible ideal...so you don't take it to heart.

Can we be perfect as our heavenly father is perfect? Well, not unless we put on His supernatural armor...that's for sure.

So we are all just human beings here...prone to weakness and sin.

And all the gospel is is a way out of that weakness, by putting on His strength (grace) so we can walk as Jesus walked and overcome as He overcame.

So it's a miracle story...even bigger than the "miracle on ice" story. ;)

But who will believe God, His Son and His apostles?

Not many.

So how can we seek to know God when we really don't even know ourselves?
 

reformed1689

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If you ever get to know yourself you will realize that you...and most people read into the bible as they already are. So then when you read something like...be holy as God is holy...you think that is some kind of impossible ideal...so you don't take it to heart.
Strawman. I have never said this.
can we be perfect as our heavenly father is perfect? Well, not unless we put on His supernatural armor...that's for sure.
Not in this lifetime according to Scripture.
So we are all just human beings here...prone to weakness and sin.
That is what Scripture states (in multiple places)
But who will believe God, His Son and His apostles?
If you say we do not sin on this earth after salvation you do not believe what the Bible says. Nor do you accomplish any such thing. Anyone who says they have never sinned one time since salvation is a liar.
 
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Prayer Warrior

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Then look at it this way. If you say you are a Christian but do not have the Spirit to keep you from sinning, and you continue to walk in the flesh and sin - the wages of sin is death. Those who walk in the flesh can never please God. Those who continue to sin are a slave to sin. And those who walk in the flesh will never inherit the Kingdom of God. And neither will the teachers who brainwashed you.

We must be born again of the Spirit. You cannot serve two masters. I just quoted a bunch of Scriptures by Paul. Those are not my words. Don't you know there are loads of Christians that are depending on Christ to take them to heaven, and to have covered their sins on earth while they keep sinning, and Jesus will say to them "I never knew you. Depart from me you workers of wickedness."

Somehow, someway, WAKE UP! And if you teach your baloney and those kids go to hell because of you, it will be better if a milestone had been put around your neck and you were cast into the sea. Teachers receive a stricter judgment. You are NOT teaching holiness, and without holiness, neither you nor your students will see God.

When we are saved (born again), it's not that we become incapable of sinning; we become capable of not sinning. But if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus, and if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:1--My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ the Righteous One.

1 John 1:9--If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 

reformed1689

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When we are saved (born again), it's not that we become incapable of sinning; we become capable of not sinning. But if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus, and if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:1--My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ the Righteous One.

1 John 1:9--If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Yeah, yet somehow they conveniently ignore passages like this.
 
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CharismaticLady

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The only baloney here is that you teach people that they must be perfect after salvation or they are not saved. That is not found anywhere in Scripture and is, in fact, told in Scripture to be a lie as I have already pointed out but you tend to gloss over because it doesn't fit your ideology. Granted, you come from a camp that also believes there is a heavenly prayer language that we should be gifted with despite the fact there is nothing in Scripture to support it either. So I guess you are all about going on about things that aren't actually in Scripture.

No I haven't. How soon you forget there are trespasses that I've said a Christian will still commit, but if we forgive each other our trespasses, and work on the fruit of the Spirit, the Father will forgive us our trespasses automatically. If we don't forgive others, neither will God forgive us.

Your problem is that you don't know what is in Scripture, and what isn't. Like Mark 16:16-18. I hope you didn't spend any money on your schooling, because you didn't get a penny's worth of truth out of it.
 

Episkopos

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Strawman. I have never said this.

Not in this lifetime according to Scripture.

That is what Scripture states (in multiple places)

If you say we do not sin on this earth after salvation you do not believe what the Bible says. Nor do you accomplish any such thing. Anyone who says they have never sinned one time since salvation is a liar.

So is it really that victory in Christ is a lie? Or just they who claim that victory in Christ are liars? Or that you really don't understand the gospel yet? or yourself?

Which sounds more reasonable to a person who understands his own sinfulness and weakness?

So then the eternal carnal conundrum is that a person who defends his own weakness and sin yet has the pride to stand against truth as if he was perfect, unerring in truth and knew all things...no sin in him as regards to the things of God.

Know yourself. You are indeed a sinner against the truth...and weak in faith by doubting God's abilities. That's why you say the things you say. You prove your own weakness in the truth.

Can you see that? Even a little?
 

CharismaticLady

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When we are saved (born again), it's not that we become incapable of sinning; we become capable of not sinning. But if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus, and if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:1--My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ the Righteous One.

1 John 1:9--If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You are combining two scriptures that do not go together. It should be 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, then 1 John 2:1 which cleanses 1 John 1:7.

1 John 1:9 is ALL sin. That includes murder, and other sins of lawlessness. 1 John 3:4-5. When we first come to Christ He takes away all our sin, and there is no sin in Him. But where in 1 John 2:1 is Christ our Advocate for unrepented WILLFUL sins of lawlessness? He's not! Notice at the end of 1 John 1:7 that even while we are walking in the Spirit we will still sin. These are unknown to us (or the Spirit would convict you before you fall to temptation, so you will resist the devil). We are not perfect, as I'm being falsely and knowingly accused by others on here (@David Taylor and @Preacher4Truth), but we can be guilty of righteous indignation that may cross the line. Did Jesus sin when he turned over the tables of the moneychangers? Well, I hate doctrines being taught that are sending young people to hell. 1 John 5:14-15 tells us of two different types of sins. John has already told us which kind is of the devil - lawlessness. Why because those are against GOD! They are against his written laws. AND they are willfully committed. They are sins unto death. Jesus is NOT our automatic Advocate for these rebellious sins. The wages of these sins, especially after sanctification, is death. It is a fearful thing to come into the hands of an angry God. But the other type of sin, sins NOT unto death are what Jesus IS our Advocate as we walk in His Spirit, but still commit unwittingly/unknowingly these sins called trespasses.

What causes a sin to be unto death or not is whether or not there was a sacrifice for it in the Old Testament to cover it. There were no sacrifices that covered the breaking of any of the Ten Commandments. They killed them, thus "unto death." Read Numbers 15:22-36.

Even the Lord's Prayer shows us that it is only trespasses we need to ask forgiveness of after conversion in our prayers. But it is general, in case we've committed one and don't know it.
 
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reformed1689

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So is it really that victory in Christ is a lie? Or just they who claim that victory in Christ are liars? Or that you really don't understand the gospel yet? or yourself?

Which sounds more reasonable to a person who understands his own sinfulness and weakness?

So then the eternal carnal conundrum is that a person who defends his own weakness and sin yet has the pride to stand against truth as if he was perfect, unerring in truth and knew all things...no sin in him as regards to the things of God.

Know yourself. You are indeed a sinner against the truth...and weak in faith by doubting God's abilities. That's why you say the things you say. You prove your own weakness in the truth.

Can you see that? Even a little?
What I see is you twist Scripture.
 

reformed1689

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No I haven't. How soon you forget there are trespasses that I've said a Christian will still commit, but if we forgive each other our trespasses, and work on the fruit of the Spirit, the Father will forgive us our trespasses automatically. If we don't forgive others, neither will God forgive us.

Your problem is that you don't know what is in Scripture, and what isn't. Like Mark 16:16-18. I hope you didn't spend any money on your schooling, because you didn't get a penny's worth of truth out of it.
You have said MULTIPLE times that we do not sin after salvation. Now you are changing course?
 

Nondenom40

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No I haven't. How soon you forget there are trespasses that I've said a Christian will still commit, but if we forgive each other our trespasses, and work on the fruit of the Spirit, the Father will forgive us our trespasses automatically. If we don't forgive others, neither will God forgive us.

Your problem is that you don't know what is in Scripture, and what isn't. Like Mark 16:16-18. I hope you didn't spend any money on your schooling, because you didn't get a penny's worth of truth out of it.
Okay, so it sounds like you believe we still sin after being born again? Whats the problem?