What Is Love?

Webers_Home · Nov 11, 2019

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● 2Cor 2:5-10 . . The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is
sufficient for him. Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so
that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. I urge you, therefore,
to reaffirm your love for him.

The cause for which Paul wrote that section was a guy in the Corinthian
church sleeping with his stepmother (1Cor 5:1). Paul had commanded the
congregation to not only hold the man's feet to the fire, but also to ostracize
him.

Some time had passed since then, and the man was apparently regretting
his actions, and broken off the illicit relationship with his kin, so it was time
to let him back into the group. No doubt the humiliation of it all had a
tremendous impact upon his attitude-- probably upon the congregation's too
because at first their attitude wasn't all that good about it either. (cf. 1Cor
5:2)

Here in America scolding and ostracizing a church member would probably
just make them indignant rather than repentant. (cf. Ps 51:17)
_

justbyfaith · Nov 11, 2019

Webers_Home said:
Here in America scolding and ostracizing a church member would probably
just make them indignant rather than repentant. (cf. Ps 51:17)

Jehovah's Witnesses practice it and it works for them. Of course, this is a part of the reason why they are considered to be a cult.

Nevertheless, we ought to remember that the word of the Lord is timeless and not to be dictated to by culture.

Webers_Home · Nov 11, 2019

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justbyfaith said:
Jehovah's Witnesses practice it

The Watchtower Society's minions practice an extreme form of ostracizing
called shunning, which is similar to Scientology's disconnection.

But Paul never meant for Christ's followers to go that far. His ostracizing
is pretty much limited to church, viz: congregational functions, e.g. worship,
communion, prayer meetings, banquets, etc.
_

justbyfaith · Nov 11, 2019

Webers_Home said:
.

The Watchtower Society's minions practice an extreme form of ostracizing
called shunning, which is similar to Scientology's disconnection.

But Paul never meant for Christ's followers to go that far. His ostracizing
is pretty much limited to church, viz: congregational functions, e.g. worship,
communion, prayer meetings, banquets, etc.
_

The Amish also practice it.

It can be just the same as shunning if a man is not allowed to go to church functions any more; and is only allowed to see his brothers and sisters in Christ when outside the church.

I would also point out that in the context of the verses on excommunication, Paul writes to us that we ought not to even eat with anyone who is called a brother but who participates in the sinful practices that are mentioned.

Webers_Home · Nov 11, 2019

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justbyfaith said:
It can be just the same as shunning if a man is not allowed to go to church
functions any more; and is only allowed to see his brothers and sisters in
Christ when outside the church.

No; absolutely not the same as JW shunning and/or Scientology
disconnection. Their practices destroy friendship bonds, destroy family ties,
and even destroy marriage vows.

justbyfaith said:
I would also point out that in the context of the verses on excommunication,
Paul writes to us that we ought not to even eat with anyone who is called a
brother but who participates in the sinful practices that are
mentioned.

The ostracizing that Paul is talking about is congregational.

At church functions: don't eat with them.

At restaurants: yes eat with them.

At home around your table: yes eat with them.
_

justbyfaith · Nov 11, 2019

Webers_Home said:
No; absolutely not the same as JW shunning and/or Scientology
disconnection. Their practices destroy friendship bonds, destroy family ties,
and even destroy marriage vows.

I'm saying that if it were put into practice that you were no longer allowed to fellowship at the church frequented by your brothers and sisters in Christ; that this would affect your relationships at every level.

Webers_Home said:
The ostracizing that Paul is talking about is congregational.

At church functions: don't eat with them.

At restaurants: yes eat with them.

At home around your table: yes eat with them.

This is not what is taught by holy scripture. The scripture does not segregate what type of meal you are having when it says not to eat with a brother who is involved in sinful practices mentioned. It says don't eat with them, period.

Webers_Home · Nov 12, 2019

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● 2Cor 2:9-11 . . If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And what I have
forgiven-- if there was anything to forgive --I have forgiven in the sight of
Christ for your sake, in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not
unaware of his schemes.

One of the opposition's tactics is to create disunity in a church. Sure enough
when that happens-- as when one portion of the congregation believes in
judging and ostracizing while the other doesn't --people start taking sides
and the church will end up divided into cliques and factions. According to the
lord and master of New Testament Christianity, a house divided against itself
cannot stand.

Paul mentioned that his extension of forgiveness was "in the sight of Christ".
There exists some controversy as to the exact meaning but I think it's just
saying that Paul's forgiveness of that man was done in accordance with
Christ's approval; to the end that the Corinthians all go along with it, i.e.
stand together as one.
_

justbyfaith · Nov 12, 2019

Webers_Home said:
as when one portion of the congregation believes in
judging and ostracizing while the other doesn't

The question we should be asking is, "What is the biblical view here?"

It is written,

1Co 11:18, For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
1Co 11:19, For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Webers_Home · Nov 14, 2019

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● Gal 5:26 . . Let us not be conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Webster's defines "conceit" as: excessive self-appreciation of one's own worth or virtue.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with having strong core values and/or believing in yourself, but if you should find yourself somewhat indignant and/or resentful when others don't believe in you, or when they think very little of your core values; then watch out because that's a symptom of conceit, and it will hinder you from obeying The Lord's orders in regard to getting along with fellow believers.

The Greek word for "envy" is phthoneo (fthon-eh'-o) which means: hostile toward a rival, or towards someone believed to enjoy an advantage. In other words; we're talking about a competitive spirit— not the good-natured, friendly kind but a malicious kind of competitive spirit that resents others doing better than itself, or more popular than itself, or more recognized than itself, or more admired than itself; viz; it's all about self.

Rivalry is a very destructive passion. It got Abel slain by his own brother, and it got Christ slain by his own people. Rivalry makes otherwise sensible people behave contrary to their own better judgment, and gets them embroiled in oftentimes unnecessary vendettas; e.g. gender rivalry and racial rivalry. Now those two there are very destructive social influences.

If none of the above describes you; consider yourself fortunate.

The Greek word for "provoke" is prokaleomai (prok-al-eh'-om-ahee) which means to challenge; viz: to get in somebody's face in an obnoxious, assertive, militant manner; which is a kind of behavior that prevents people from deserving identification with God's kin.

● Matt 5:9 . . Blessed are the peaceable: for they shall be called the children of God.
_

Webers_Home · Nov 16, 2019

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● Gal 6:1a . . Brethren, even if someone is caught in the very act of any
trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness;

The Greek word for "trespass" is interesting. It can refer to willful
misconduct and/or to unintentional misconduct. Seeing as how willful
misconduct is dealt with harshly and summarily as per 1Cor 5:1-13 while in
this situation gently, then I'd say Gal 6:1 is referring to unintentional
misconduct; which doesn't merit a public flogging; but rather a quiet talk;
and the more private the better in order to avoid embarrassing the
unintentional offender.

Restoration does not apply to visitors; only to members on a church's roles;
i.e. the congregation. The visitors' business is none of our business so don't
go sticking your nose in it.

The Greek word for "restore" basically means to repair or adjust, viz:
restoration applies to maladjusted Christians, i.e. the ones whose
misconduct is habitual, and quite possibly detrimental to a church's overall
health.

A spirit of gentleness precludes the use of bullying, intimidation, rage.
yelling, demeaning comments, lecturing, scolding, biting sarcasm, ugly
remarks, carping criticism, brow beating, and such. Those kinds of behaviors
aren't gentle, no, they're cruel and abusive. They're also unwarranted when
the accused has committed an unintentional trespass.

NOTE: The instructions given in Gal 6:1 pertain only to spiritual Christians;
garden variety, rank and file pew warmers— viz: marginal Christians —need
not concern themselves with it.

In churches where people are conceited, assertive, confrontational,
embroiled in petty rivalries, debating, quarrelling, and maybe even jostling
for notoriety; the spiritual ones are obviously going to be as scarce as
California Condors.

● Gal 6:1b . . each one looking to yourself, lest you too be tempted.

The Greek word for "tempted" is somewhat ambiguous. It primarily means
to test; but can also mean endeavor, scrutinize, entice, and/or discipline.

I think what the restorers are being cautioned against is going about a right
thing in a wrong way so that they themselves wind up taken to task for
conduct unbecoming. In some people's minds, the end justifies the means so
long as it benefits the so-called greater good. But that's Machiavellian
thinking rather than Christian thinking.

In other words: the restorers need to tread lightly because if they go after
an alleged offender like a lynch mob; then they themselves should expect to
be seen by others as a toxic menace and a threat to peace and cohesion.
_

Webers_Home · Nov 17, 2019

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● Gal 6:1-2 . . Bear one another's burdens, and thus fulfill the law of Christ.

It's human nature to shun people with problems so they don't drag us into a
world of inconvenience and/or negativity. But that is not what I call fulfilling
the law of Christ; which reads thusly:

● John 13:34-35 . . A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have
loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you
are my disciples, if you love one another.

The love that is defined by "As I have loved you" is a kind of love willing to
suffer inconvenience, shame, humiliation, embarrassment, and disgrace for
the sake of another. Christ's love isn't a fault-finding attitude; it's a
supportive virtue: it doesn't only feel your pain, it gets involved in your pain.

Church can be the loneliest place on earth when nobody cares enough about
you to get involved in your pain; but instead would just as soon not know
about it. Sadly, there is about as much love for one another in modern
churches as there is amongst an audience of strangers at the movies. I
sincerely believe that a lot of that indifference has to do with modern
churches just simply being too big and too busy.
_

justbyfaith · Nov 18, 2019

Webers_Home said:
.
● Gal 6:1-2 . . Bear one another's burdens, and thus fulfill the law of Christ.

It's human nature to shun people with problems so they don't drag us into a
world of inconvenience and/or negativity. But that is not what I call fulfilling
the law of Christ; which reads thusly:

● John 13:34-35 . . A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have
loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you
are my disciples, if you love one another.

The love that is defined by "As I have loved you" is a kind of love willing to
suffer inconvenience, shame, humiliation, embarrassment, and disgrace for
the sake of another. Christ's love isn't a fault-finding attitude; it's a
supportive virtue: it doesn't only feel your pain, it gets involved in your pain.

Church can be the loneliest place on earth when nobody cares enough about
you to get involved in your pain; but instead would just as soon not know
about it. Sadly, there is about as much love for one another in modern
churches as there is amongst an audience of strangers at the movies. I
sincerely believe that a lot of that indifference has to do with modern
churches just simply being too big and too busy.
_

I feel fortunate to be attending a church where the members of the body express the love of Christ to one another.

Webers_Home · Nov 19, 2019

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● Gal 6:10 . . So then, whenever we have opportunity, let us do good to all
men, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

Good can take any number of forms but I think a useful description we could
apply here is "beneficial".

Jesus did good (Acts 10:30) i.e. he was very definitely beneficial; not just on
the cross or by his teachings, but in non spiritual ways too.

Those who are of the "household of the faith" are actually kin; viz: siblings;
and like they say: charity begins at home.

Some churches have what they call a deacon's fund; to assist members who
are down and out and/or in dire straits.

And don't overlook your church's senior citizens. Some may be getting up in
years and finding it difficult to even maintain their own homes and yards
anymore. Chores may not seem all that spiritual; but pitch in anyway if for
no other reason than your assistance is beneficial.
_

Webers_Home · Nov 20, 2019

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● Eph 4:2 . . Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, putting up with
another in love.

NOTE: That's an interesting command because no doubt it's not asking us to
do something that Christ doesn't do every day: endure his sheep's stupidity,
their lack of civility, and their natural preference for impiety.

Humility is one of those virtues that people love to talk about; but rarely
ever seem to exemplify.

The Greek word is a tongue twister. It's tapeinophrosune (tap-i-nof-ros-oo'
nay) which means humiliation of mind, viz: modesty; defined by Webster's
as free from conceit and/or vanity.

Conceit is defined as excessive appreciation of one's own worth or virtue;
viz: a too-high opinion of one's self; i.e. a master-race mentality.

Vanity is defined as inflated pride in oneself or in one's appearance; viz:
narcissism and/or self adoration.

Cosmetics and figure-shaping undergarments don't really qualify as the kind
of vanity that Paul is talking about; which is a kind of vanity that goes way
beyond just trying to look your best.

Sinful vanity is an ugly creature. It's self aggrandizing. Vanity isn't gentle
either, on the contrary, vanity can be quite cruel, thoughtless, competitive,
given to rivalry, indifferent, and insensitive; and vanity abhors associating
with people whose station in life is decidedly below its own; and God forbid
someone below themselves should have the nerve to correct either their
conduct or their knowledge.

Patience is a jewel. It's defined as the power, or capacity, to endure without
complaint something difficult or disagreeable. Patient people seem to have a
predilection for retaining their composure while under stress. These make
the best leaders because they don't get flustered when everything around
them is disintegrating into chaos.

Patience is very useful when it comes to "putting up" with certain kinds of
chafing Christians who seem to have a knack for getting on people's nerves.

During my forty years working as a professional welder, I encountered
numerous fellow employees whose skills and performance were excellent;
but nobody could work with them. They were just too difficult.

Heaven forbid that Christ's followers should ever be "difficult". It is rather to
be desired that they be civil, courteous, thoughtful, sociable, agreeable,
helpful, approachable, accommodating, affable, rational, reasonable,
temperate, and self-controlled. Christians around whom everybody has to
walk on egg shells all the time, are in sore need of a personality make-over
if they're to ever have any realistic expectation of associating with God as
His kin.

● Matt 5:9 . . Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the
children of God.
_

Webers_Home · Nov 21, 2019

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● Eph 4:3 . . Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

Peace is what everybody wants but seem thoroughly unable to attain-- either by force or by diplomacy --even in Christian churches where you'd think that at least there you'd find peace seeing as how it's related to one of Christ's beatitudes (Matt 5:9). It's also a fruit of the Spirit. (Gal 5:22)
_

Webers_Home · Nov 22, 2019

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● Eph 4:25 . .Each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his
neighbor, for we are all members of one body.

One's neighbor is not the same as one's brother; i.e. the former is an
acquaintance, the latter is kin.

The command is directed at "each" of you-- i.e. individuals --because one
dishonest Christian disgraces all Christians, and raises questions about their
overall sincerity because that's the way propaganda machinery works.
_

Webers_Home · Nov 23, 2019

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● Eph 4:26a . . In your anger do not sin.

Anger isn't eo ipso evil. It's how one handles their anger that matters. Anger
can be a very useful tool when it's applied by somebody who knows what
they're doing. For example:

● Mark 3:5 . . And when Jesus had looked round about on them with anger,
being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man:
Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored
whole as the other.

Everybody gets angry from time to time; just don't let it drive you to doing
something contrary to your better judgment, e.g. violence, profanity, malice,
cruelty, uncivil behavior, spite, ugly remarks, emotional outbursts,
demeaning comments, hysteria, etc.
_

Webers_Home · Nov 25, 2019

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● Eph 4:26b-27 . . Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and
do not give the Devil a foothold.

Some people treat their anger like a prized possession: they don't want to
lose it. They actually prefer to stay angry rather than "get over it".
Apparently the Devil is quick to take advantage of Christians like that, i.e.
they become what's called in the spy business; an asset.
_

Webers_Home · Nov 26, 2019

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● Eph 4:29 . . Don't use foul or abusive language. Let everything you say be
good and helpful, so that your words will be an encouragement to those who
hear them.

"helpful" is from the Greek word oikodome (oy-kod-om-ay') which means: to
build up (as opposed to tearing down).

"foul or abusive" is from the word sapros (sap-ros') which means: rotten,
i.e. worthless (literally or morally) viz: inappropriate.

The foul and abusive category no doubt includes not only profanity, but also
biting sarcasm, cruel remarks, thoughtless comments, chafing, relentless
fault-finding, sneering, ridicule, mean spirited rejoinders, mockery, and
unnecessary criticism.

Language that's good, helpful, and encouraging is essential if one is to be
serious about exemplifying the fifth beatitude.

● Matt 5:7 . . Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Speaking of humanity as a corporate body, the Bible says:

● Rom 3:13a . .Their throat is an open sepulcher

It's not advisable to open a sepulcher seeing as how the contents are no
doubt going to be quite odious and in a state of decay; especially in locales
where the remains weren't cremated or treated with formaldehyde.
_

Webers_Home · Nov 27, 2019

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● Eph 4:31 . . Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, harsh words, and
slander, as well as all types of malicious behavior.

It wasn't The Lord's wish that Ephesian Christians avoid all bitterness, rage
and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice; no; on
the contrary, he wanted the Ephesians to "get rid" of them.

"bitterness" is from the Greek word pikria (pik-ree'-ah) which means: acrid,
poisonous, and/or toxic (literally or figuratively)

Christians like that are nothing in the world but deadly reptiles.

"the poison of asps is under their lips" (Rom 3:13b)

"rage" is from thumos (thoo-mos') which means: passion (as if breathing
hard). Passion is just the opposite of reason; and as everyone knows,
emotions are incoherent; so it's to be expected an emotional person is not
acting rationally. This is a kind of conduct that Paul says brings sorrow to
God's Spirit.

"anger" is from orge (or-gay') which means: desire (as a reaching forth or
excitement of the mind), i.e. (by analogy,) violent passion, ire, (by
implication: punishment)

People overcome by orge typically want some satisfaction; even to the point
of at least your ruin; if not your death.

"harsh words" is from krauge (krow-gay') which means: outcry.

Out-crying is what protestors do; in other words: assertive, in-your-face
confrontational complaints and/or demands.

"slander" is from blasphemia (blas-fay-me'-ah) which means: to vilify.
Webster's defines "vilify" as: (1) to lower in estimation or importance, and
(2) to utter slanderous and abusive statements against; viz: defame,
discredit, and/or denigrate.

A statement need not be false in order to qualify as slander; it need only to
be unnecessary; viz: you'll often hear people say: Well, I was only telling the
truth. Were they? No, that's a ruse. In reality, they're insensitive; and they
don't care who gets hurt by their thoughtless remarks.

The Lord notices the words people say, and he also takes note of the spirit in
which they say them.

"But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for
every careless word they have spoken." (Matt 12:36)

"malicious behavior" is from kakia (kak-ee'-ah) which means: badness, i.e.
(subjectively) depravity, or (actively) malignity, or (passively) trouble:

Malice usually includes the element of "spite" which Webster's defines as:
petty ill will, or hatred, with the disposition to irritate, annoy, or thwart.
Compare that to the koiné word for "persecute" in the eighth Beatitude
which means, literally: to pursue; viz: to stalk, to hound, to harass.

Webster's defines "thwart" as: (1) to run counter to so as to effectively
oppose or baffle; viz: contravene, and (2) to oppose successfully; viz: to
defeat the hopes or aspirations of; in other words: to deliberately get in
someone's way; block, discourage.

Boy I'll tell you, that Ephesian church was as rough-hewn and crude as the
old logging community of Stump Town (now Portland) out here in the
Oregon of the 1800's. They cussed, they brawled, they bad-mouthed, they
held grudges, they were thieves, they were arrogant, they somehow had the
idea that Jews were below them, they were immodest, conceited, vain, and
impatient, they walked unworthy of their calling, and they were splintered
into cliques.
_

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