Competing in the Games

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amadeus

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Who wants to run a race where an extra mile is added on the end of it? We thought the race was over.

In the special forces....I read that the last test was, after a grueling all night march with various checkpoints, the very last one...which itself hardly anyone could reach....then the instructor says....you have ONE MORE to go. And this is just to see what the trainee will do. If the person gives up...then that one is not fit for the special forces.....because they are quitters. It's all about having the right attitude. They are looking for mental toughness not just physical stamina. The force is looking for people who don't have ANY quit in them. Of course, there is no extra checkpoint in the course in reality...it's just a test.

Not only the Special Forces I would say. When I was in basic training at Fort Ord, Calif with the U.S. Army [1963] and all of us had run and run again with full packs and rifles day after day and week after week. Toward the end of our training guess what? Our platoon sergeant was a very tough little Puerto Rican who had just recently finished a tour in Viet Nam. [He had been in the Special Forces at that time prior to heavy US involvement there.] He put us to such a test.

We had been at intervals double-timing and walking for several miles. It was late in the day and after a rest stop when we already had been moving in the direction of the barracks and the mess hall for the evening meal he decided to double time us home. It wasn't that far so everyone was ready and willing to make that last comparatively little final stretch before rest and food, but just within sight of home there was a large open field. Our platoon sergeant in the lead suddenly began to run in circles around that field and of course the platoon ran right behind him also in circles. Within a few of those large circles men began to fall out of formation... out of the running. He continued to run. Of a platoon of perhaps 50-60 men he ran on until even his very best ones [so some us may have thought] fell out onto the ground in exhaustion or was it frustration? When only 3 men and his assisting nom-coms were still following him he finally headed directly toward home. Every one of us had completed longer treks on previous rough training days, but never before with such a seemingly unattainable and meaningless goal. He had made his point.

What was my platoon sergeant's point? What is Episkopos' point? What is God's point?
 
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Episkopos

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Not only the Special Forces I would say. When I was in basic training at Fort Ord, Calif with the U.S. Army [1963] and all of us had run and run again with full packs and rifles day after day and week after week. Toward the end of our training guess what? Our platoon sergeant was a very tough little Puerto Rican who had just recently finished a tour in Viet Nam. [He had been in the Special Forces at that time prior to heavy US involvement there.] He put us to such a test.

We had been at intervals double-timing and walking for several miles. It was late in the day and after a rest stop when we already had been moving in the direction of the barracks and the mess hall for the evening meal he decided to double time us home. It wasn't that far so everyone was ready and willing to make that last comparatively little final stretch before rest and food, but just within sight of home there was a large open field. Our platoon sergeant in the lead suddenly began to run in circles around that field and of course the platoon ran right behind him also in circles. Within a few of those large circles men began to fall out of formation... out of the running. He continued to run. Of a platoon of perhaps 50-60 men he ran on until even his very best ones [so some us may have thought] fell out onto the ground in exhaustion or was it frustration? When only 3 men and his assisting nom-coms were still following him he finally headed directly toward home. Every one of us had completed longer treks on previous rough training days, but never before with such a seemingly unattainable and meaningless goal. He had made his point.

What was my platoon sergeant's point? What is Episkopos' point? What is God's point?

John, where were you in all this? Did you last longer...or not? (You don't have to answer) ;)
 
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amadeus

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understand that i am not disagreeing with the ends ok, but the means. Thus run the race so as to win will functionally become...something entirely different, imo. Not a competition at all iow. No battles either, which is where you will inevitably be led to with the wrong perspective there imo.
dang, ipad wont count the returns for "Christian soldier" and "God's Army,"--which are both like polluted by film titles (just put "-film" in search query)--v "the battle is already won," but see for yourself, and be advised imo

so, imo run all you like, takes strong thighs huh
Indeed it is not a race to win against our fellow competitors [other believers in the promises of God?] but simply to be accepted because we have come to love God that much. Those who endure to the finish line are the winners. Those who never get into the race or who drop out along the way are the losers.

"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt 24:12-13
 

amadeus

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John, where were you in all this? Did you last longer...or not? (You don't have to answer) ;)
You know I remember in high school when the head coach of the football team was testing everyone who attended physical education classes they had us all run a certain distance and being small of stature at the time introverted, afraid of everyone and frustrated with my life, I dropped out saying it was no use continuing. The coach tried to tell me it was not that kind of a test... but it was finished for me at the moment. I graduated from high school in 1961.

A couple of years later in that run with our sergeant I still could not win any competitions, but I refused to drop out. I was one of the three finishers, I who had never won any kind of a foot race in my natural life. I was a faithful Catholic at the time, but I had never read a Bible. God did already have His hand on me. This is NOT patting myself on the back. This is simply what God was doing. It was a long time before I learned to always give Him the glory!
 
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amadeus

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"If this man were not of God, he could do nothing." John 9:33

"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5

Nobody, alone, we certainly are. But with Him in us?

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27
 

Episkopos

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You know I remember in high school when the head coach of the football team was testing everyone who attended physical education classes they had us all run a certain distance and being small of stature at the time introverted, afraid of everyone and frustrated with my life, I dropped out saying it was no use continuing. The coach tried to tell me it was not that kind of a test... but it was finished for me at the moment. I graduated from high school in 1961.

A couple of years later in that run with our sergeant I still could not win any competitions, but I refused to drop out. I was one of the three finishers, I who had never won any kind of a foot race in my natural life. I was a faithful Catholic at the time, but I had never read a Bible. God did already have His hand on me. This is NOT patting myself on the back. This is simply what God was doing. It was a long time before I learned to always give Him the glory!

May you also be among the finalists who hang in with the Lord to the very end, brother. In fact, let's run together! :)

I think that's the point of the body...we don't quit until we've all crossed the finish line. Until then we exhort and encourage our brethren to hold on and keep the faith!

Your testimony is very valued here...thanks for the background information! Very helpful to this thread.
 

Episkopos

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In any race, we can run better if we run with others to spur us on. We might think...ok I'm done...but then see that others are still in the race. And this is what keeps us going. We spur each other on to doing exploits....going much farther than we thought possible.

Also a chariot goes faster than a single horse.

The 2 horses spur each other on to faster speeds. They are "equally" yoked so that their combination is greater than the individual effort.

Didn't Jesus send His disciples out in two's?
 

amadeus

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ol Clement lost me @ "the life to come," i'm pretty sure he didnt mean "after baptism" lol
actually he lost me at "competing" tbh
Don't be too quick with conclusions based on the way a person speaks. It is also at times simply a matter of communication. Everyone
who has actually met Jesus is now in that "life to come" because he answered the Lord's call to him. Before, however, for him it was still "to come". Even people who are in such a new life don't always understand well enough yet to be able to explain it clearly in man's words.
 

amadeus

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In any race, we can run better if we run with others to spur us on. We might think...ok I'm done...but then see that others are still in the race. And this is what keeps us going. We spur each other on to doing exploits....going much farther than we thought possible.

Also a chariot goes faster than a single horse.

The 2 horses spur each other on to faster speeds. They are "equally" yoked so that their combination is greater than the individual effort.

Didn't Jesus send His disciples out in two's?
I remember thinking to myself, when that high school coach told me that I should not quit: I really wish that big talented coach would have tried to help me then... but he did not. Never another word anytime even though I was in his P.E. classes. I tried hard, but that only got me a C and I held that against him too.

He seemed to be a 'good' man, but his focus for most part, I believe, was on his football team. At a single glance he would know I was not football material. All through high school I lacked about 4 inches of attaining my present height of 5'9". All of that difference was gained after I joined the army. I did blame the coach at that time, but eventually many years later as God drew me to Him, I came understand what had happened and what is happening. What a mighty God we serve!


Others can help us and we can help others, but we are all very selfish [unless we have already overcome completely as Jesus did] and sometimes even the help we give has the wrong underlying motive: It's for me! Hmmm?

"Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves." Phil 2:3

Jesus did just exactly that. Who else has always done that? Certainly not me! The good thing is that there is still time...
 
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bbyrd009

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Don't be too quick with conclusions based on the way a person speaks. It is also at times simply a matter of communication. Everyone
who has actually met Jesus is now in that "life to come" because he answered the Lord's call to him. Before, however, for him it was still "to come". Even people who are in such a new life don't always understand well enough yet to be able to explain it clearly in man's words.
ya, true...i am biased against him, surely
 
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amadeus

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ya, true...i am biased against him, surely
Who among us has no bias against someone else, when we should not? Jesus respond the devils which were in or were people. Some people may be devils at times [all of the time?] or allow devils to direct their words or actions, but I would be slow to call anyone a devil. Jesus spoke that way to Peter once calling him satan… but unless we have a clear directive from God we may find ourselves with James and John here:

"And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?" Luke 9:54

And did Jesus support them in this?

"But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them..." Luke 9:55-56
 

bbyrd009

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Who among us has no bias against someone else, when we should not? Jesus respond the devils which were in or were people. Some people may be devils at times [all of the time?] or allow devils to direct their words or actions, but I would be slow to call anyone a devil. Jesus spoke that way to Peter once calling him satan… but unless we have a clear directive from God we may find ourselves with James and John here:

"And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?" Luke 9:54

And did Jesus support them in this?

"But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them..." Luke 9:55-56
"Clement is known for his epistle to the church in Corinth (c. 96), in which he asserts the apostolic authority of the bishops/presbyters as rulers of the church.[2] The epistle mentions episkopoi (overseers, bishops) or presbyteroi (elders, presbyters) as the upper class of minister..."
"get behind me, satan" is what comes to mind, sorry guys
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Pope_Clement_I
("saint" Clement i mean pls, you cant call him a pope?)
 
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amadeus

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"Clement is known for his epistle to the church in Corinth (c. 96), in which he asserts the apostolic authority of the bishops/presbyters as rulers of the church.[2] The epistle mentions episkopoi (overseers, bishops) or presbyteroi (elders, presbyters) as the upper class of minister..."
"get behind me, satan" is what comes to mind, sorry guys
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Pope_Clement_I
("saint" Clement i mean pls, you cant call him a pope?)
Proceed with doubts by all means. Even one who believes a certain thing/doctrine to be the Absolute Truth should be careful about accusing another of blasphemy because that other disagrees. Remembering myself some things that I have declared in my own past to be "truth", which now I cannot embrace and may even reject leaves me very careful about stating Absolute Truths. I believe that they exist, AT that is, but I should be very slow about insisting that any fall into line behind me because of my beliefs. Yet, having said that, I also won't simply change because of the oldest groups or the largest groups or for that matter what any groups of people might say.

Who is this guy Clement, anyway? He wrote something down long before our births and perhaps was also mentioned in the writings of some others, but he too had a heart which God alone was able to search thoroughly. Is there not usually good in the worst and evil in the best? So if we see some of that good, why needlessly accentuate the evil?
 
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bbyrd009

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Proceed with doubts by all means. Even one who believes a certain thing/doctrine to be the Absolute Truth should be careful about accusing another of blasphemy because that other disagrees. Remembering myself some things that I have declared in my own past to be "truth", which now I cannot embrace and may even reject leaves me very careful about stating Absolute Truths. I believe that they exist, AT that is, but I should be very slow about insisting that any fall into line behind me because of my beliefs. Yet, having said that, I also won't simply change because of the oldest groups or the largest groups or for that matter what any groups of people might say.

Who is this guy Clement, anyway? He wrote something down long before our births and perhaps was also mentioned in the writings of some others, but he too had a heart which God alone was able to search thoroughly. Is there not usually good in the worst and evil in the best? So if we see some of that good, why needlessly accentuate the evil?
i sure have no idea what a mile in his shoes then would have felt like; but at the same time i am glad for this imo Reveal of "saint" Clement, the Upper Class Pope