Christians mistreating other Christians over doctrinal differences

Sabertooth · Nov 26, 2019

David Taylor said:
Baptism of the Holy Spirit is simply salvation. Nothing less, nothing more.

Must I conform to that opinion?

bbyrd009 · Nov 26, 2019

amadeus said:
Whatever the proper word for it may be, you are not the only one with this weakness. On the one hand the Lord tells us to be perfect like his Father, while on the other hand, we are told not to love world, which includes the "pride of life"... which I am sure includes your difficulty.

Lots of "Christians" say they would like to be like Jesus, but to the extent that their desire to be like Him is selfish, rather than because they love God, likely have that same problem of rampant perfectionism. I wish I could never I never had such a problem. My problem is when I think I am getting past the first two in the following verse, I am assailed by the 3rd one. The good thing I guess is that God taps me on the shoulder softly or sometimes raps me very hard on the head to let me know my direction is wrong:

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, 1) the lust of the flesh, and 2) the lust of the eyes, and 3) the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:15-16

And then we must also consider the very next verse:

"And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." I John 1:17

When our personal world does pass away will we have anything that will abide for ever?

some good contemplations here, ty, ill sleep on them. Yes, something to do with pride or self esteem or lack of it, yeh. For God so loved the world and seems to me we are told to leave it, not to not love it, maybe? Dunno.

bbyrd009 · Nov 26, 2019

prism said:
The Haiku was in response to this your statement..."and many others (scripture verses) that we do not accept as Truth,"

ah well i did mean generally speaking, not you specifically i hope you understand

reformed1689 · Nov 26, 2019

Sabertooth said:
Must I conform to that opinion?

Yes

Sabertooth · Nov 26, 2019

David Taylor said:
Yes

I do not doubt (for a second) your faithfulness before God. And I see no good reason to be antagonistic toward you, but this dialogue clearly demonstrates the kind of disparity that we can expect to see until the Thearchy.

(It also demonstrates why I consider theocracies and ecumenism to be bad ideas.)

reformed1689 · Nov 26, 2019

Sabertooth said:
I do not doubt (for a second) your faithfulness before God. And I see no good reason to be antagonistic toward you, but this dialogue clearly demonstrates the kind of disparity that we can expect to see until the Thearchy.

(It also demonstrates why I consider theocracies and ecumenism to be bad ideas.)

Not to mention only one or neither of us can be right but we cannot both be right.

Sabertooth · Nov 27, 2019

David Taylor said:
Not to mention only one or neither of us can be right but we cannot both be right.

We can both be right for/faithful to the amount of revelation that we have thus far.

God building His Church anticipates a progressive Reformation. (Progressive in a good way.

) And it anticipates upheaval.

"And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
till we all come

to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
to a perfect man,
to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;..." Ephesians 4:11-13 NKJV

That kind of "progressive!"

(No church has arrived at Ephesians 4:13, yet. Nor can they get there by staying where they are.)

Invisibilis · Nov 27, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
hmm, i'm aware of being dishonest too, so wadr again your "opening" is throwing me. Maybe someone can interpret for me, surely it is my hearing

Your awareness of being honest is a consciousness of honesty.

farouk · Nov 27, 2019

Sabertooth said:
We can both be right for/faithful to the amount of revelation that we have thus far.

God building His Church anticipates a progressive Reformation. (Progressive in a good way. ) And it anticipates upheaval.

"And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
till we all come

to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God,

to a perfect man,

to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;..." Ephesians 4:11-13 NKJV

That kind of "progressive!"

(No church has arrived at Ephesians 4:13, yet. Nor can they get there by staying where they are.)

"...And still new beauties may I see,
And still increasing light".

(Hymn-writer Ann Steele, if I'm not mistaken...)

reformed1689 · Nov 27, 2019

Sabertooth said:
We can both be right for/faithful to the amount of revelation that we have thus far.

Not when the views contradict each other. Both cannot be right.

bbyrd009 · Nov 27, 2019

Invisibilis said:
Your awareness of being honest is a consciousness of honesty.

seems like my awareness of being honest might easily be overcome by my willingness to be a hypocrite though? The heart is deceitful; above all things

Sabertooth · Nov 27, 2019

David Taylor said:
Not when the views contradict each other. Both cannot be right.

Do either of us look like Jesus, yet [1 John 3:2]? Does that mean that you are not correct, for where you are expected to be (in the sanctification process)?

Health standards for children differ at different ages, too. (Does that mean either is wrong, if they disagree?) And they differ from those of an adult.

amadeus · Nov 27, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
some good contemplations here, ty, ill sleep on them. Yes, something to do with pride or self esteem or lack of it, yeh. For God so loved the world and seems to me we are told to leave it, not to not love it, maybe? Dunno.

There is the world of all the human inhabitants of planet Earth and then there is the world of each one of us with its attractions [specified in the 3 things shown in I John 2:15-16 quoted in my previous post. God loved which world? Surely not the physical planet Earth...? Which world was Jesus speaking of here?

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

Since this prayer was prior to his crucifixion and death, I would say it was speaking of the little world of the man, Jesus, which had contained those temptations but he had already overcome them all. He was not finished with his personal tasks to do, but he had already overcome that world, which he confirmed here:

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

The "world" of our tribulations might also be speaking of planet Earth, but it is certainly speaking of our own little world of tribulations within each of us. Jesus overcame His, but we must overcome ours and now the Way is now open.

reformed1689 · Nov 27, 2019

Sabertooth said:
Do either of us look like Jesus, yet [1 John 3:2]? Does that mean that you are not correct, for where you are expected to be (in the sanctification process)?

Health standards for children differ at different ages, too. (Does that mean either is wrong, if they disagree?) And they differ from those of an adult.

Comparing apples and oranges.

Invisibilis · Nov 27, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
seems like my awareness of being honest might easily be overcome by my willingness to be a hypocrite though? The heart is deceitful; above all things

As clever as one can be dishonest, it can never make itself honest.

Sabertooth · Nov 27, 2019

David Taylor said:
Comparing apples and oranges.

Let's agree to disagree.

reformed1689 · Nov 27, 2019

Sabertooth said:
Let's agree to disagree.

No, I agree that you are wrong.

Sabertooth · Nov 27, 2019

David Taylor said:
No, I agree that you are wrong.

And I agree that you believe that. That is essentially the same.

reformed1689 · Nov 27, 2019

Sabertooth said:
And I agree that you believe that. That is essentially the same.

Not believe that, KNOW that.

Nancy · Nov 27, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
some good contemplations here, ty, ill sleep on them. Yes, something to do with pride or self esteem or lack of it, yeh. For God so loved the world and seems to me we are told to leave it, not to not love it, maybe? Dunno.

"My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one." John 17:15

Christians mistreating other Christians over doctrinal differences

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