Y do U believe what U believe, and do U have good reasons 4 those beliefs? - let's find out.

ReChoired · Nov 29, 2019

Stranger said:
Your third question didn't make sense as you called a nation a person. Hosea was describing the nation Israel.

Stranger

I didn't call anyone anything, I simply asked a question, which you just refused to answer the first time, and then when I mentioned it, you then had an answer ready which does not address the texts, and assumes that "my son" means a 'nation', rather than a single person. In the OT "Israel" was a single person who had been given that spiritual name. Who inspired Hosea 11:1 and Matthew 2:15? Who is speaking in Hosea 11:1? You just told me that Jesus was the fulfillment of Hosea 11:1, in agreement with Matthew 2:15, yes?

Stranger · Nov 29, 2019

ReChoired said:
I didn't call anyone anything, I simply asked a question, which you just refused to answer the first time, and then when I mentioned it, you then had an answer ready which does not address the texts, and assumes that "my son" means a 'nation', rather than a single person. In the OT "Israel" was a single person who had been given that spiritual name. Who inspired Hosea 11:1 and Matthew 2:15? Who is speaking in Hosea 11:1? You just told me that Jesus was the fulfillment of Hosea 11:1, in agreement with Matthew 2:15, yes?

I have answered all three of your questions.

1.) (Matt. 2:15) is citing (Hosea 11:1)

2.) (Matt. 2:15) is stating that Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of (Hosea 11:1)

3.) (Hosea 11:1) is describing the nation of Israel.

Yes, I said Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of (Hosea 11:1) which (Matt. 2:15) states.

Stranger

ReChoired · Nov 29, 2019

Stranger said:
I have answered all three of your questions. ...

Yes, you surely have. Thank you.

Stranger said:
...

1.) (Matt. 2:15) is citing (Hosea 11:1)

2.) (Matt. 2:15) is stating that Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of (Hosea 11:1)

3.) (Hosea 11:1) is describing the nation of Israel.

Yes, I said Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of (Hosea 11:1) which (Matt. 2:15) states.

Stranger

Stranger · Nov 29, 2019

ReChoired said:
Yes, you surely have. Thank you.

Quite welcome.

Stranger

ReChoired · Nov 29, 2019

Stranger said:
Quite welcome.

Stranger

What does the name Israel mean according to scripture?

amadeus · Nov 29, 2019

ReChoired said:
Context? His (Jesus) mind/heart was always upon His Father (who was in the 3rd Heaven, a real physical place), thus was He always "in Heaven". See also John 8:29; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 3:1-2; Philippians 4:8; Hebrews 12:2. We are to be the same, as we look unto Jesus, who is in the 3rd Heaven.

A 'real physical place'? And where is that if all the physical things supposedly perceived by the five senses of a man, the temporal setting, is merely the figment of someone's imagination? When it is gone, this figment, then when nothing is left but God and the "new man" of each of us who has such a new man built upon the foundation of Jesus Christ?

Scripturally speaking:

[1] Atmosphere of air: Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

[2] Local Solar System with its stars/planets: Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

[3] Where God dwells: 2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

And this setting of yours to be substantial according to those same 5 perceptions upon which of man of flesh relies, and the logical processes of his carnal mind, but when and if those temporal perceptions and processes e are gone what is left? God certainly... but what about us if we have not somewhere been given the substance of the "ears to hear" and the "eyes to see" not made of flesh and not located below our forehead nor on the sides of our physical head?

(third heaven; a real place up from here, beyond the first and second heaven, where God actually sits upon His throne with all the universe circling the throne of Deity)

Real places, real spaces. Why do people continually spiritualize everything, making the word of God of none effect?

Making the Word of God of none effect? Consider what the Word of God is, and where it needs to be! If none is Alive within you, are you not dead?

Are you blind to God who is Spirit or a Spirit? What is it that you see with the "eyes" of the Holy Spirit? Is not that the reality of God and the things of God? Is our old man of flesh and the ways of our flesh what will we will see of each other when the old world has passed away? I would say, NOT! Spiritually are we dependent upon the existence of natural light to see?

Are we not rather dependent upon the Light which Jesus is? When the temporal light and vision are gone will not that which remains be the vision in the Holy Spirit, which perhaps now still somewhat blurry or dark become a face to face vision? Are we not now on the approach to such a vision?

Why would you or should you say that everything is NOT spiritual? Reality is spiritual because reality is God. What you and most of us most of the time refer to as reality is temporal. It will pass away!

Why is it that we must proceed to Him through faith?

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1

Early in our walk with God our vision is quite blurry [through darkened glass] but will not our pathway be brightened? What does Job say of the "wind"?

"And now men see not the bright light which is in the clouds: but the wind passeth, and cleanseth them." Job 37:21

What is this wind, but the same Spirit of God which brightens our pathway and allows us to "see". It is the substance of what cannot be seen with the physical eye... and then consider Paul's writing...

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

And Solomon's...

"Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Prov 29:18

bbyrd009 · Nov 29, 2019

ReChoired said:
He is here with us by His representative that was sent in His name:

Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Joh 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Later on, after 40 days:

Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Luk 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Luk_19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned [G1880], having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

(G5290, means: to return, to go back to once again, to come back again, revisit a previous visited location, as in Luke 2:43, 4:14)

The texts:

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Paul refers to the second Advent of Jesus Christ when he says “by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” and further by adding, “and [by] our gathering together unto him”, which are similar to the passages of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 [see also Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27]:

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Compare:

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The King James English word “coming” is translated from [G3952], “παρουσία”, “parousia”.and may be seen in many other passages [see also 1 Corinthians 16:17; 2 Corinthians 7:6-7, 10:10; Philippians 1:26, 2:12 KJB]:

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

There are also many other words that also describe Jesus' visible, physical, audible, tumultuous, glorious, triumphant and literal return at the Father's appointed time:

[1] 'to come and/or arrive', [G2064], “ἔρχομαι” “erchomai” [Matthew 24:30, 26:64; John 14:3; 1 Corinthians 11:26; Revelation. 1:7],

[2] 'to appear visibly', [G3700], “ὀπτάνομαι”, “optanomai” [Hebrews 9:28],

[3] 'to return', [G360], “ἀναλύω”, “analyō” [Luke 12:36],

[4] 'to reveal', [G602], “ἀποκάλυψις”, “apokalypsis” [2 Thessalonians 1:7; 1 Peter 1:7; Luke 17:29-30],

[5] 'to manifest', [G2015], “ἐπιφάνεια”, “epiphaneia” [1 Timothy 6:14; 2 Timothy 4:8; Titus 2:13],

[6] 'make manifest', [G5319], “φανερόω”, “phaneroō” [1 Peter 5:4],

[7] 'come', [G2240], “ἥκω”, “hēkō” [Revelation 2:25],

[8] 'to return', [G5290], “ὑποστρέφω”, “hypostrephō” [Luke 19:12].

See also:

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The next text:

2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

No one, has ever, gone up to heaven, but He Who came down from it;

ReChoired said:
about 'returning' in the original languages, which means nothing to God

it's all Greek to me!

ειμι | Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary (New Testament Greek)
wow, innaresting

anyway, scribes will be scribes i guess huh
"Easter," etc blah blahblagh
i guess private interpretations should get some air again here too
again, again, again, againagain
no apparent gain though, i dunno
i just cant say

ReChoired · Nov 29, 2019

amadeus said:
Making the Word of God of none effect?

Yes. Follow the order:

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Spiritual does not mean spiritualizing away Heaven (3rd), or God's own form.

A spiritual lesson cannot be drawn from the 3rd Heaven, without the natural 3rd Heaven existing first.

bbyrd009 · Nov 29, 2019

ha well so you say
the kingdom of heaven is within you
naturally, right

ReChoired said:
(which means you have a standard which is not founded in scripture itself)

ah, do i? ok, ty

bbyrd009 said:
he who says he knows does not yet know as he ought

ReChoired said:
That is self-contradictory, even on the face of it. By saying it, the person is claiming to 'know' it, and yet the second half contradicts the first.

does it? hmm, ok

bbyrd009 · Nov 29, 2019

amadeus said:
This is why I so many years ago found it necessary to empty myself when I come before God each morning. Some people decided a long time ago what heaven was and where it was located. A lot of people now believe what those others decided so long ago without seriously checking in with God about it. Is this Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven cited in the scriptures the same heaven of which so many people and denominations speak? Maybe, but try to take it from nothing and where God leads you.

Remember this verse that our friend @bbyrd009 periodically alludes to:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" John 3:13
Jesus was always in a heaven, but which one at which time? He certainly started in 3rd heaven until he lowered himself. We enter heaven, 1st heaven, when we really repent that first time... and from there?

Without dissecting the above verse to carefully, what I see in it is Jesus being in the three heavens, 1st, 2nd and 3rd. So "where" is heaven located? But... don't just take what I say I believe about it either! Only consider and talk with God about it:

In the very lowest or 1st heaven we have repented but remain an unclean animal [bottom of Noah's ark]
In the 2nd or middle heaven we have allowed God in us to clean us up making us a clean animal but we have NOT overcome the basic animal [beast-like] instincts which in a man lead to sin and death [middle level of Noah's ark]
In the 3rd heaven we have allow God in us to kill [overcome] all of the basic animal instincts and in any moment we are there, we are like Jesus who has overcome the world [top level of Noah's ark]. All of our beasts have been killed [Prov 9:1-2]

yikes amadeus that virtually tails with abarim's explanation of what Noach is really about, hmm. ty

amadeus said:
I was implying nothing about you. I was simply describing what I believe generally.

Physical age may be a factor in our maturity in the Lord, but sometimes very young people in the flesh may be more mature in the Lord than a physically much older person. The ability or duty to assign to you or anyone else a level of maturity in God is not mine and I would not presume to do that. It is not in my job description.

i guess little kids have us all beat huh

bbyrd009 · Nov 29, 2019

ScottA said:
I was merely letting you go on and on, drawing you out into the light. But you got nothing, and only reveal your complete learned lack of understanding.

You have posted volumes in an attempt to glorify a manufactured god of flesh and blood, against the Spirit. The non-word "spiritualize" is usually the give away. Whether you want to make a case for "God is [a] spirit" or are satisfied with not making issue of the "a" or not, you are still speaking against the Spirit. Your anti-spirit campaign is unforgivable. This is not debatable. If you want to continue in it, you will pay the ultimate price.

Ironically, salvation, eternal life, and entering the kingdom of God actually require complete spiritualizing, that is: being born again of the spirit of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." And you have made your choice.

So be it.

well, she could always change her mind i guess.
you think thats the US? unforgivable sin?
US narf, priceless

ScottA said:
No...you have missed it completely, and are under some twisted imagination that God is not perfect as He is being completely spirit, and that the flesh is "glorified" making men a form of hybrid more perfect than God Himself.

But of course that is crazy wrong, for what is actually true, is that we are to become like Him: perfect, spirit.

compare her Share with our concept of Charity and even Missions i guess?

"your love's like rhinestones,
falling from the sky" huh?

bbyrd009 · Nov 29, 2019

ReChoired said:
I have even already, which is why I share the scriptures I do, and believe what I now believe, and so worship the living God in heart (spirit) and in deed (truth).

if i testify of myself, my testimony is invalid, however

ReChoired said:
These might help/assist (if not, I may present many scriptures if you desire that instead, let me know):

End-Time 13 - Armageddon & The 7 Last Plagues - Sister Helen

sister helen is straight from hell ok sweetie? no offense
and welcome to the forum!

amadeus · Nov 29, 2019

ReChoired said:
Yes. Follow the order:

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." I Cor 13:11

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Spiritual does not mean spiritualizing away Heaven (3rd), or God's own form.

A spiritual lesson cannot be drawn from the 3rd Heaven, without the natural 3rd Heaven existing first.

No spiritual lesson, [that is...no edification in the things of God, who is a Spirit], may be drawn from anything unless God is in it:

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:6-7

It appears to me that your purpose with this thread runs a little deeper than what my post #72 suggested and what you have stated yourself.

ReChoired · Nov 29, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
No one, has ever, gone up to heaven, but He Who came down from it;
it's all Greek to me!
ειμι | Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary (New Testament Greek)
wow, innaresting

anyway, scribes will be scribes i guess huh
"Easter," etc blah blahblagh
i guess private interpretations should get some air again here too
again, again, again, againagain
no apparent gain though, i dunno
i just cant say

Look up Tyndales "Easterlambe". Then parallel it with Passover in all the other verses, it's simple, and yes the translators knew exactly what they were doing.

bbyrd009 · Nov 29, 2019

ReChoired said:
Look up Tyndales "Easterlambe". Then parallel it with Passover in all the over verses, it's simple, and yes the translators knew exactly what they were doing.

i know who ishtar is already, but ty
fertility rites, eggs, bunnies, etc

ReChoired · Nov 29, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
i know who ishtar is already, but ty
fertility rites, eggs, bunnies, etc
duh

Easterlambe has nothing to do with Ishtar, or paganism.

amadeus · Nov 29, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
yikes amadeus that virtually tails with abarim's explanation of what Noach is really about, hmm. ty

i guess little kids have us all beat huh

They begin without much of the garbage that older people have gathered. For myself, I was really drawn in toward God was after I was finished with college. Then to approach Him more closely I had to shed a lot of what I had learned there in that so-called place of "higher learning". Still more remains to be shed! So much for a 'good' "education"! There is none 'good' but One!

"Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven." Matt 18:4

bbyrd009 · Nov 29, 2019

ReChoired said:
Easterlambe has nothing to do with Ishtar, or paganism.

ok
anyway, i posted "welcome to the forum" but i think that one locked up and didnt post
so ya

have a nice day
tyndale was english, right
not all bad i'm sure
but the orig is after all passover, and im not into private interpretations
any more

Nancy · Nov 29, 2019

amadeus said:
This is why I so many years ago found it necessary to empty myself when I come before God each morning. Some people decided a long time ago what heaven was and where it was located. A lot of people now believe what those others decided so long ago without seriously checking in with God about it. Is this Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven cited in the scriptures the same heaven of which so many people and denominations speak? Maybe, but try to take it from nothing and where God leads you.

Remember this verse that our friend @bbyrd009 periodically alludes to:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" John 3:13
Jesus was always in a heaven, but which one at which time? He certainly started in 3rd heaven until he lowered himself. We enter heaven, 1st heaven, when we really repent that first time... and from there?

Without dissecting the above verse to carefully, what I see in it is Jesus being in the three heavens, 1st, 2nd and 3rd. So "where" is heaven located? But... don't just take what I say I believe about it either! Only consider and talk with God about it:

In the very lowest or 1st heaven we have repented but remain an unclean animal [bottom of Noah's ark]
In the 2nd or middle heaven we have allowed God in us to clean us up making us a clean animal but we have NOT overcome the basic animal [beast-like] instincts which in a man lead to sin and death [middle level of Noah's ark]
In the 3rd heaven we have allow God in us to kill [overcome] all of the basic animal instincts and in any moment we are there, we are like Jesus who has overcome the world [top level of Noah's ark]. All of our beasts have been killed [Prov 9:1-2]

Yes, good post John,
Since God is on His throne, is not Jesus seated at His right hand...in the 3rd heaven? I know when Jesus returns, it will be in the clouds..and I do believe He IS coming back, physically one day @bbyrd009

. Hard to imagine Jesus residing in the clouds or outer space...I see Him passing through them yet...not remaining there.
"Thy Kingdom come Thy Will be done on Earth as it is in heaven"
Would you see that verse saying that God will dwell with us at that time? New heavens and a new earth?
Emptying ourselves of our preconceived notions is an awesome way to approach, I would say any scripture we don't quite grasp, thank you! I never really had a notion of what heaven is like and still do not...I just see another garden of Eden spread across this earth after He destroys it to make way for the New. And, of course, I see all believers becoming whole in righteousness...no sin, transgressions or trespasses. And...no pain or sadness! other than these thoughts, I don't really have any others that stand out in my pea brain! Big subject for an average Christian, lol (meaning myself!)

bbyrd009 · Nov 29, 2019

ReChoired said:
Easterlambe has nothing to do with Ishtar, or paganism.

but i mean note that you gotta quote tyndale for that, not Scripture, right
tyndale was a scribe see
now i dont mean "evil" or even "bad" necessarily, thatwasthenthisisnow, but nonetheless, it cannot be Quoted, just like your jesus, returning, see.

Nancy said:
"Thy Kingdom come Thy Will be done on Earth as it is in heaven"
Would you see that verse saying that God will dwell with us at that time? New heavens and a new earth?

hmm. Eye what does the will of Yah, eye AM the Sons of Yah no?
"at that time" the time is always Right Now, im pretty sure, nancy
but sure, "Lord only knows..." lol, not even the Son, huh
narf

Nancy said:
Emptying ourselves of our preconceived notions is an awesome way to approach, I would say any scripture we don't quite grasp, thank you!

to most ppl, the Bible is lying, right out in the open
imo

Nancy said:
I never really had a notion of what heaven is like and still do not...I just see another garden of Eden spread across this earth after He destroys it to make way for the New.

i tink He gwan to use His Body parts fo dat bro

Nancy said:
And, of course, I see all believers becoming whole in righteousness...no sin, transgress

believers, bah. i see dem passing away myself
literally
Yah so loved the cosmos amen

"beliefs are a pimple on the forehead of understanding"

Nancy said:
Big subject for an average Christian, lol (meaning myself!)

Christians, bah, be a Christ imo
the heir is under servants and no better than a slave until he inherits, even though he is lord of all
but imo "church" is a fab place to start, may as well goto the Romans for that then imo

"
The world-wide Christ

The word Christ comes from the Greek verb χριω (chrio), to smear or anoint. Ritualistically, the act of anointing was performed upon people who had no earthly superior and were as such sovereigns. These were kings, priests and prophets, and Israel was supposed to be a "kingdom of priests," i.e. a "Christhood of Christs," i.e. a "Sovereign State of Sovereigns" (Exodus 19:6).

A Christ is someone who is a sovereign: someone who is entirely autonomous, entirely responsibly for his own actions, and who answers only to the Creator and the natural laws that govern his creation (which is known as the Word or Logos, which is what Christ embodies). In Hebrew this verb is משח (mashah), and the derived noun is the familiar word משיח (mashiah), or Messiah. These words were never reserved for Jesus Christ of Nazarethbut are applied to all sovereigns, i.e. all kings, priests and prophets in the Bible.

In the first century, the name Jesus was proverbially common (there are five men named Jesus in the New Testament alone). The name Nazareth looks like a Niphal form of the verbs זרע (zara') or זרה (zara), both meaning to scatter. That means that the term Jesus Christ of Nazareth is faithfully paraphrased as Sovereign John Doe From All Over The Place, and that obviously covers more than just one person, even more than all Christians, all Jews or the whole of Israel. It covers the whole human world through all the ages.

Jesus Christ — Sovereign John Doe — is the fulfilment of God's promise to Abraham, whose blessing would extend to all the families of the earth (Genesis 12:3). Much later, Jesus of Nazareth would speak of drawing all men to himself, when he was lifted up from the earth (John 12:32), which brings to mind the tower of Babel, which was raised to reach the heavens and prevent humanity's scattering (Genesis 11:4). The people who built the tower of Babel attempted to centralize humanity by means of industry and technology, rather than by embodying the Word, and failed like the highly similar Roman attempt would in the Middle Ages. Both failures caused a broad societal collapse, followed by an extended Dark Age, followed by a Renaissance.

To mark the promised resurrection Abraham initiated circumcision, but instead of making the covenant an inclusive and elite affair, he circumcised himself, his son Ishmael, and all the men who worked for him, both born and bought into his household (Genesis 17:23), and those were hundreds of men: in Genesis 14:14, Abraham took a mere 318 of them to chase some bad guys." the Abarim

Y do U believe what U believe, and do U have good reasons 4 those beliefs? - let's find out.

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