Word Study

farouk said:

I don't see how the passover is continued today...the Cross is pivotal to our understanding of the transition.

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Passover is explicitly about exiting bondage from Egypt which is a type for our dwelling in sin. You also don't see how keeping the feast of Unleavened Bread is continued today either, but this is explicitly prescribed by Paul. How many so-called believers follow Paul's inspired words?

shnarkle said:

Passover is explicitly about exiting bondage from Egypt which is a type for our dwelling in sin. You also don't see how keeping the feast of Unleavened Bread is continued today either, but this is explicitly prescribed by Paul. How many so-called believers follow Paul's inspired words?

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I would see that the types and shadows are passed now. The law was changed. What we now have is better than the law.

farouk said:

I would see that the types and shadows are passed now. The law was changed. What we now have is better than the law.

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Paul doesn't say that. He says they "are" shadows. Nowhere does he say they are passed. The law is not done away. How one approaches it has changed. How the law is administered is changed, not the law itself. Instead of attempting to keep the law in the flesh, one keeps it in the spirit. By keeping the law in the spirit, the "law that was added because of transgressions" becomes obsolete. The law itself is not what becomes obsolete, but the curse or penalty is what has become obsolete, and that is only for those who keep the law by faith in the spirit.

shnarkle said:

Paul doesn't say that. He says they "are" shadows. Nowhere does he say they are passed. The law is not done away. How one approaches it has changed. How the law is administered is changed, not the law itself. Instead of attempting to keep the law in the flesh, one keeps it in the spirit. By keeping the law in the spirit, the "law that was added because of transgressions" becomes obsolete. The law itself is not what becomes obsolete, but the curse or penalty is what has become obsolete, and that is only for those who keep the law by faith in the spirit.

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Hebrews 7.12 & Hebrews 7.19. It seems to me clearly that the law was changed; and what we now have is better than the law.

soul man said:

What does that mean "as your salvation," it means you were saved the moment you believed and were BORN again.

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so already "had faith" has been watered down to "believed," what pagans do to idols, eh

soul man said:

There was no birthing in the Old Testament, that makes this word "divide" imperative to your understa

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Bible Search: born again OT
Bible Search: born OT
:/ go figure lol

soul man said:

You can nolonger feel you have a works related salvation

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you reap what you sow
2 Corinthians 5:10 Lexicon: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

soul man said:

You can nolonger feel you have a works related salvation

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you reap what you sow
for all must come before the judgement seat

David Taylor said:

Not in this lifetime according to Scripture.

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i dunno DT, i would suggest that as there provides a way, if only we can hear it. Do little kids "sin?" Sure they do, all the time; to certain perceptions. Imo that most other perceptions forgive them might be a key

Prayer Warrior said:

When we are saved (born again), it's not that we become incapable of sinning; we become capable of not sinning. But if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus, and if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:1--My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ the Righteous One.

1 John 1:9--If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

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Adam and Eve werent saved, and yet
Who told you that you were naked?

Nondenom40 said:

Okay, so it sounds like you believe we still sin after being born again? Whats the problem?

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perceptions of sin, and lack of forgiveness maybe?

Episkopos said:

So then the eternal carnal conundrum is that a person who defends his own weakness and sin yet has the pride to stand against truth as if he was perfect, unerring in truth and knew all things...no sin in him as regards to the things of God.

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yikes. Or i mean can you rephrase this, i must be hearing it wrong ty

bbyrd009 said:

yikes. Or i mean can you rephrase this, i must be hearing it wrong ty

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There is a a kind of attitude and spirit that defends itself as righteous even while claiming that all righteousness is as filthy rags....by self-serving human beliefs that justifies their sins and causes them to judge others who sin less than they...but without the self-serving and self-righteous claims based on said religious beliefs.

Luther championed this...a justification by a belief system that foregoes any real knowledge of God. God as a person is left out by deifying the bible and the human interpretations imposed on it...making it an idol and a false god. It is based on a justification ( a self-justification) by religious beliefs. The bible is just the expedient in creating the idol that allows for self-justification.

The truth is about a real connection to God and a real spiritual life and friendship with God. The bible is a help to THAT end...not an end in itself.

David Taylor said:

Granted, you come from a camp that also believes there is a heavenly prayer language that we should be gifted with despite the fact there is nothing in Scripture to support it either.

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Questionable in the gifting of the Spirit. What is the language of the Spirit of God is not pure? Zephaniah 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.
^ would you deny the language of the Spirit is pure?

“Come from a camp that believes there is a heavenly prayer language that should be gifted ...” Should be gifted...should it not with the gifting of the Spirit? You said: despite there is nothing in Scripture to support a heavenly language? or gifting...Ephesians 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Praying always...in the Spirit... “that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.”

Episkopos said:

There is a a kind of attitude and spirit that defends itself as righteous even while claiming that all righteousness is as filthy rags....by self-serving human beliefs that justifies their sins and causes them to judge others who sin less than they...but without the self-serving and self-righteous claims based on said religious beliefs.

Luther championed this...a justification by a belief system that foregoes any real knowledge of God. God as a person is left out by deifying the bible and the human interpretations imposed on it...making it an idol and a false god. It is based on a justification ( a self-justification) by religious beliefs. The bible is just the expedient in creating the idol that allows for self-justification.

The truth is about a real connection to God and a real spiritual life and friendship with God. The bible is a help to THAT end...not an end in itself.

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dunno about any "persons" in Yah myself..."like" anyway, as a relationship is nonetheless possible imo. But imo we differ @ "what God is, and what God is not." Ever notice how many diff orig terms are xlated "God?"

bbyrd009 said:

dunno about any "persons" in Yah myself..."like" anyway, as a relationship is nonetheless possible imo. But imo we differ @ "what God is, and what God is not." Ever notice how many diff orig terms are xlated "God?"

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There are no human words for the true connection with God. There's nothing really to compare that to. The miraculous realm of the Spirit is there. Few will experience it and be able to remain there. And most people today no longer believe in anything they have not already experienced.

Faith? In the unknown God?

Is there any faith left?

Episkopos said:

Is there any faith left?

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to imply there is no Faith left is to imply there is no Spirit of God left as Faith comes by the Spirit and not men.

farouk said:

Hebrews 7.12 & Hebrews 7.19. It seems to me clearly that the law was changed; and what we now have is better than the law.

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What you have now, plenty of people had then. What you have now doesn't replace the law. You keep referring to those two passages, but you don't seem to notice the context which is explicitly referring to a priesthood. Under the Mosaic law the priests offered sacrifice for sin. The author of Hebrews is pointing out that when there is no sin, there must necessarily be a completely different priesthood. When there is no sin, there is no transgression of the law, but the implication of your posts is that there is no law therefore there is nothing to transgress to begin with. This is to simply put the cart before the horse.

Again, you're conflating the commandments, and the law that was added because of transgression of the commandments.

soul man said:

We are not going anywhere, again no one said Adam was created to sin.

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Here's what you said: "what makes a sinner is their nature.". I agreed, and pointed out that Adam made a decision to sin. At that point his life was changed forever. His nature had fallen from the relation it had prior to that choice. We are all born into that nature. We are born to sin and die.

You are speculating on what is being said.

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Perhaps, but until you can point out what you're talking about and refute it with scripture, no one really cares about these baseless assertions of yours.

You have some interesting thought out ideas but they do not have any scriptural basis.

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Given that I have used scripture to support my claims, I will stick with them until someone is able to actually address them, and provide a refutation.

I believe you are in over your head trying to prove something that is not written,

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Again, I supplied the relevant passages to support my position. You, on the other hand, have not provided any scripture to support this belief of yours. You're entitled to believe what you please. I just see no point in entertaining your beliefs without some scriptural support.

Episkopos said:

There are no human words for the true connection with God. There's nothing really to compare that to. The miraculous realm of the Spirit is there. Few will experience it and be able to remain there. And most people today no longer believe in anything they have not already experienced.

Faith? In the unknown God?

Is there any faith left?

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This is an interesting insight, but I'm not sure how you come to your final statement because the God that is known is not just objectively known, but known by an intellectual process which is integral to coherent language. Our language determines how we will think and know, and how we think and know something, is reflected in our speech. That direct connection to God bypasses all of that, and we are known by God. We are seen as we truly are rather than how we see ourselves and each other.

Just because we may not know God, it doesn't then follow that there is no faith left. All faith dwells in, with, and through Christ. It is the faith OF Christ that operates. Abraham sets out with no aim or destination in mind. He does this by faith, a faith that God has implanted within him. That can only be the faith of Christ.

shnarkle said:

This is an interesting insight, but I'm not sure how you come to your final statement because the God that is known is not just objectively known, but known by an intellectual process which is integral to coherent language. Our language determines how we will think and know, and how we think and know something, is reflected in our speech. That direct connection to God bypasses all of that, and we are known by God. We are seen as we truly are rather than how we see ourselves and each other.

Just because we may not know God, it doesn't then follow that there is no faith left. All faith dwells in, with, and through Christ. It is the faith OF Christ that operates. Abraham sets out with no aim or destination in mind. He does this by faith, a faith that God has implanted within him. That can only be the faith of Christ.

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I am defining faith as per Jesus' definition...the faith that does the works of Jesus. Moving mountains and such.

Episkopos said:

I am defining faith as per Jesus' definition...the faith that does the works of Jesus. Moving mountains and such.

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Was Jesus being literal when He said that?