Am I wrong

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Nancy

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Hi Nancy,

It is true that there were false teachers of false doctrine that entered the Church shortly after the death of Christ. If you can explain to me how the men of the 1st century Church, the ones who walked and talked with the Apostles, were wrong in their doctrine then I will join you and your crew.

Logically if there was a false teaching that means there was a true teaching. Can you name the TRUE teachings/teachers from the 1st century that you adhere to?

Gnosticism, QUARTODECIMANISM (that's a funny word), MONTANISM, Monarchianism.... to name a few..... are teachings about Christ from the 2nd century. Which one of those do you agree with and were NOT a false doctrine/teaching?

I look forward to your response.....Historical Mary

Sola Scriptura, period. There is nothing and nobody else who will teach me...The Holy Spirit brings me into all truth, in His time. There is nothing else to add to this for me. BTW- my grandmother was a devout Catholic all her life and she exhibited every single fruit of the Spirit of The Living God so...I have no doubt where she is right now. She was kind and gentle with her words and never had a bad word to say about anybody, ever...Her spirit was sweet, gentle and loving at all times. We know them by their fruits, and her fruits were bursting with love for all people. I cannot say that about many on here, that's for sure. I rest in Him, and I also enjoy His peace every day. So, take it or leave it, this is where I stand.
 

Marymog

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Sola Scriptura, period. There is nothing and nobody else who will teach me...The Holy Spirit brings me into all truth, in His time. There is nothing else to add to this for me. BTW- my grandmother was a devout Catholic all her life and she exhibited every single fruit of the Spirit of The Living God so...I have no doubt where she is right now. She was kind and gentle with her words and never had a bad word to say about anybody, ever...Her spirit was sweet, gentle and loving at all times. We know them by their fruits, and her fruits were bursting with love for all people. I cannot say that about many on here, that's for sure. I rest in Him, and I also enjoy His peace every day. So, take it or leave it, this is where I stand.
Thank you Nancy.

Sola Scriptura is self refuting. I hope that some day, in His time, the Holy Spirit will guide you to that truth.

YOU are the one who said that as SOON as Jesus descended to the Father that many false teachers of false doctrine would enter the Church. I gave you several examples of teachings (true or false) that entered into the Church after His crucifixion. You couldn't tell me which one of those were true or false. To me that makes it clear you don't know what a true or false doctrine is.

You didn't answer my very simple questions that are based on your logic soooo I digress. I will leave it.

Mary
 

Yehren

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False. Anyone who could afford one, could purchase one from a scribe. The same was true for the Oral law when it was written down. You're thinking of the Catholic church's designs to keep their congregations ignorant which was some time later.

Actually, the Church encouraged reading of the Bible, even printing the Bible into common languages for those few who could read, but could not read Latin:

After the invention of the printing press, prior to Luther's Bible being published in German, there had been over 20 versions of the whole Bible translated into the various German dialects (High and Low) by Catholics. Similarly, there were several vernacular versions of the Bible published in other languages both before and after the Reformation.
...
The Catholic Douay-Rheims version of the whole Bible in English was translated from the Latin Vulgate. It was completed in 1610, one year before the King James Version was published. The New Testament had been published in 1582 and was one of the sources used by the KJV translators.

The Latin Vulgate was always available to anyone who wanted to read it without restriction. Some Evangelicals have said that it would only have been usable by people who read Latin. But in the 16th Century there were no public schools and literacy was not that common, especially among the peasants. Those people who could read had been well educated and could read Latin.
Did the Catholic Church forbid Bible reading?

 

Nancy

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Thank you Nancy.

Sola Scriptura is self refuting. I hope that some day, in His time, the Holy Spirit will guide you to that truth.

YOU are the one who said that as SOON as Jesus descended to the Father that many false teachers of false doctrine would enter the Church. I gave you several examples of teachings (true or false) that entered into the Church after His crucifixion. You couldn't tell me which one of those were true or false. To me that makes it clear you don't know what a true or false doctrine is.

You didn't answer my very simple questions that are based on your logic soooo I digress. I will leave it.

Mary

"You didn't answer my very simple questions that are based on your logic <---This is not my first rodeo Mary. When i joined this site I had a bit of a go around with BOL (ad nauseam ) and almost left the site quick as I started! (Thank's @Helen :)
This site is my Church as much as my brick and mortar building each Sunday. If it does not edify, build each other up, and all of this with...grace, I would not be on here but, praise To His Name, there are many Spirit filled, kind brothers and sisters on here; definitely more than enough to keep me coming back to see how they are all doing, and to share our faith.

soooo I digress. I will leave it." <--- Thankyou! Or, it just goes round, and round, and round and...
Gods Blessings
nancy
 

Ezra

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The thief could have been baptized PRIOR to being hung on the cross alongside Jesus.
baptism follows salvation not baptized then saved . i have never seen so much false doctrine in all my life
 

Yehren

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From my perspective, God is just. A person may repent and submit to God without having opportunity to be baptized with water. The Good Thief shows such a case, and he was saved.

That's not license for us to deny the necessity of baptism; it's merely God being just.
 
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charity

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Hi charity,

Scripture makes it very clear that Jesus/Apostles taught and practiced that there is an identifiable Church with elders/bishops/deacons. That Church has the final authority on doctrine and who should be treated as a pagan/tax collector if they do not adhere to that doctrine.

Which passages from Scripture supports your practice of not going to a church (Christian community) with elders/bishops/deacons that have that authority?

Mary
Hello @Marymog,

Thank you for your post.

Yes, Praise God! There is an identifiable Church: of which I am assuredly a member, in Christ Jesus my Lord, by God's Grace. It is the Church which is His Body, of which He is the Head. The fulness of Him that filleth all in all (Ephesians 1:22-23.

His Word (written) teaches me all things, in the hand of the Holy Spirit, Who takes of the things of Christ and makes them mine: teaching and correcting me in measure.

Colossians 2:16-17
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Marymog

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baptism follows salvation not baptized then saved . i have never seen so much false doctrine in all my life
Baptism follows belief for one must first believe and then be baptized.

Scripture says baptism now saves you. Your false doctrine says it doesn't. I believe Scripture; not you.
 

reformed1689

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My husband and 4 kids moved to a small town in Tennessee a few years ago. We had always attended Calvary Chapel but none here. We have tried a bunch of churches but they always reject me because I was not baptized properly.

I was born to parents that actively hated the church God, Jesus w extreme passion. I can say that I was born to love Christ. Even as a tiny girl, I can remember secretly reading my bible. I contribute this to a praying MIL but another story...my dad was very violent, like a trip to the ICU at age 3 violent. I was baptized at 15 at a football game by sprinkle and I really was putting myself in a lot of danger doing that.
Fast forward 30 years..everytime we try to join a church, they say I need to be baptized. I feel baptized..and my baptism came at personal cost that few will ever know and meant more to me accordingly. Getting baptized again makes me want to vomit, my skin crawls when idiots tell me that this extremely important spiritual moment where God spoke to me w prophetic news that came true was all a lie and God is a liar.
I quit trying to even go to church bc my husband would get so mad when they rejected me and then none went to church. Am I wrong not to go to church? Should I just take a bath in sanctuary to make idiots happy?
It's interesting, I've been to lots of churches and have never actually come across one that requires you to be baptized in their church.
 
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Ezra

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Baptism follows belief for one must first believe and then be baptized.

Scripture says baptism now saves you. Your false doctrine says it doesn't. I believe Scripture; not you.
you dont know your nose from a hole in the ground. i noticed you exclude justification and rely on baptism
luke 3:
3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

8 {Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance}
, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.


9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

10 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?

11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

12 Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?

13 And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.

14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;

16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.
 
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Ezra

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BOL (ad nauseam )
lol that is a very god description.. so let me tell you a story o made a hospital visit with cancer patient terminal lung and in his back.. a young man with the staff comes in his wife started telling him. she asked him if he was a christian? he said yes i been catholic all my life she asked him to pray he said ok. w made a circle she asked him lead he said it really wasnt a prayer..sigh.. so i led in prayer ..i bet ya he was baptized to
 
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Nancy

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lol that is a very god description.. so let me tell you a story o made a hospital visit with cancer patient terminal lung and in his back.. a young man with the staff comes in his wife started telling him. she asked him if he was a christian? he said yes i been catholic all my life she asked him to pray he said ok. w made a circle she asked him lead he said it really wasnt a prayer..sigh.. so i led in prayer ..i bet ya he was baptized to
 

Nancy

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Why does it seem that so many from different denominations/beliefs take pleasure out of some going to Hell...who are they to think they know a mans heart?? Argghh!
 
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Ezra

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Why does it seem that so many from different denominations/beliefs take pleasure out of some going to Hell...who are they to think they know a mans heart?? Argghh!
i take no pleasure nor will i stand idle .. when i see false doctrine promoted water baptism over the Blood of Jesus for salvation romans pushes heavy on justification /justified
Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Romans 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

justification
JUSTIFICA'TION, n.

1. The act of justifying; a showing to be just or conformable to law, rectitude or propriety; vindication; defense. The court listened to the evidence and arguments in justification of the prisoner's conduct. Our disobedience to God's commands admits no justification.

2. Absolution.

I hope, for my brother's justification, he wrote this but as an essay of my virtue.

3. In law, the showing of a sufficient reason in court why a defendant did what he is called to answer. Pleas in justification must set forth some special matter.

4. In theology, remission of sin and absolution from guilt and punishment; or an act of free grace by which God pardons the sinner and accepts him as righteous, on account of the atonement of Christ.

without the shedding of blood
Hebrews 9:22-28 King James Version (KJV)
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

any one promoting baptism to be saved is guilty of heresy / false teaching


the so called discussions go on and on . instead as Christians we should expose the darkness by applying the true Light
 
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Ezra

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baptism now saves
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
The like figure whereunto, baptism is a figure salvation is of Christ
 

Nancy

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i take no pleasure nor will i stand idle .. when i see false doctrine promoted water baptism over the Blood of Jesus for salvation romans pushes heavy on justification /justified
Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Romans 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

justification
JUSTIFICA'TION, n.

1. The act of justifying; a showing to be just or conformable to law, rectitude or propriety; vindication; defense. The court listened to the evidence and arguments in justification of the prisoner's conduct. Our disobedience to God's commands admits no justification.

2. Absolution.

I hope, for my brother's justification, he wrote this but as an essay of my virtue.

3. In law, the showing of a sufficient reason in court why a defendant did what he is called to answer. Pleas in justification must set forth some special matter.

4. In theology, remission of sin and absolution from guilt and punishment; or an act of free grace by which God pardons the sinner and accepts him as righteous, on account of the atonement of Christ.

without the shedding of blood
Hebrews 9:22-28 King James Version (KJV)
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

any one promoting baptism to be saved is guilty of heresy / false teaching


the so called discussions go on and on . instead as Christians we should expose the darkness by applying the true Light

"...he entered in once..." "25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; <--- He did it once only, and it does not need repeating, lol.

PS
As I'
ve heard said "God has a blood economy"
 
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Ezra

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"...he entered in once..." "25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; <--- He did it once only, and it does not need repeating, lol.

PS
As I'
ve heard said "God has a blood economy"
i noticed i was accused of denying the Blood cleansing us from our sin.. i asked to be showed where i posted that nothing... notta if there was anything it could have been a typo . my grammar skills stink along with typing . i fear some in here could have a form of Godliness but denying the power there of , blinded by the doctrine of the god of this world
 
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Nancy

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i noticed i was accused of denying the Blood cleansing us from our sin.. i asked to be showed where i posted that nothing... notta if there was anything it could have been a typo . my grammar skills stink along with typing . i fear some in here could have a form of Godliness but denying the power there of , blinded by the doctrine of the god of this world

Let the accuser accuse. I wouldn't have even bothered looking for the post, you wouldn't say that, and if they can't read around a few typos here and there then they are just being petty. The burden of proof should be on the accuser anyhow, no??
"i fear some in here could have a form of Godliness but denying the power there of , blinded by the doctrine of the god of this world"
I believe you are right...
 

Nancy

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Hello @Marymog,

Thank you for your post.

Yes, Praise God! There is an identifiable Church: of which I am assuredly a member, in Christ Jesus my Lord, by God's Grace. It is the Church which is His Body, of which He is the Head. The fulness of Him that filleth all in all (Ephesians 1:22-23.

His Word (written) teaches me all things, in the hand of the Holy Spirit, Who takes of the things of Christ and makes them mine: teaching and correcting me in measure.

Colossians 2:16-17
In Christ Jesus
Chris

You are so gracious Chris!! And, very well put :)
 
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charity

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You are so gracious Chris!! And, very well put :)

Hi @Nancy,

Regarding Grace: I pray that this is so, and if it is, then the glory is the Lord's, for in me, that is in my flesh, there is no good thing.

Regarding the Church which is His Body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all (Ephesians 1:22-23): I glory in this glorious revelation given to Paul, by God; for it transcends all earthly perceptions concerning what the church comprises, and unites us in Christ Jesus our Head.

* Anything less than this is not worthy of the name.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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