Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

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Waiting on him

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Acts 10:36-48 KJV
[36] The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) [37] That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; [38] How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. [39] And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: [40] Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; [41] Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. [42] And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. [43] To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. [44] While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. [45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. [46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, [47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? [48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

If you’ll notice the Holy Ghost was poured upon them, they received the gospel as Peter was speaking.

This preceded literal water baptism, which is for a showing of a good conscience toward God.
Tecarta Bible
 

charity

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@charity I was taking up your point about the conscience; I don't see that anyone has a totally clear conscience in the divine scheme of things, apart from the work of Christ; although there are indeed degrees of conscience.
Hello @farouk,

Forgive me, for I can't comment, because I can't find the entry that you were commenting on.o_O

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

charity

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Mark 16:16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV


That's our Lord Jesus speaking that. If He didn't deem baptism with water important He would not have said it. And note that He showed there also that it's disbelief that damns one's soul specifically, which reveals He has power to save without water baptism also if needed for those like the malefactor on the cross.

You can try to drum up all sorts of excuses that we don't really need to get baptized of water, but those are just excuses.

Confession of Faith on Jesus Christ as one's Savior and water baptism are the main introduction steps into a life in Christ Jesus.
Hello @Davy,

I commented on this when this verse came up before: and can only repeat that it is necessary to look at the context in which this is said, and ask the questions, to whom it is said? The time of it's fulfilment? To whom it would be said by them that heard Him? For what purpose? and why?

You would not have agreed with me then, so you are unlikely to agree now. Water baptism should be understood in the light of the way that the Jew of Jesus day would have done so, in order to do that reference to the Old Testament is necessary. This I have also referred to before. So I will leave it with the Lord, in this case, for He only can arbiter this matter in your heart.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Davy

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Hello @Davy,

I commented on this when this verse came up before: and can only repeat that it is necessary to look at the context in which this is said, and ask the questions, to whom it is said? The time of it's fulfilment? To whom it would be said by them that heard Him? For what purpose? and why?

No, you simply need to heed what our Lord Jesus said there in Mark 16:16 and quit playing around with His Word.
 

Waiting on him

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Through the eyes of men it seems there's so much we have lost
As we look down the road where all the prodigals have walked
One by one the enemy has whispered lies
And led them off as slaves
But we know that you are god yours is the victory
We know there is more to come
That we may not yet see
So with the faith you've given us
We'll step into the valley unafraid, yeah
As we call out to dry bones come alive, come alive
We call out to dead hearts come alive, come alive
Up out of the ashes let us see an army rise
We call out to dry bones, come alive
God of endless mercy god of unrelenting love
Rescue every daughter bring us back the wayward son
And by your spirit breathe upon them show the world that you alone can save
You alone can save
As we call out to dry bones come alive, come alive
We call out to dead hearts come alive, come alive
Up out of the ashes let us see an army rise
We call out to dry bones come alive
So breathe, oh breath of god
Now breathe, oh breath of god
Breathe, oh breath of god now breathe
Breathe, oh breath of god
Now breathe, oh breath of god
Breathe, oh breath of god, now breathe
As we call out to dry bones come alive, come alive
We call out to dead hearts come alive, come alive
Up out of the ashes let us see an army rise
We call out to dry bones, come alive
We call out to dry bones, come alive
Oh come alive

I was looking at the lyrics of this song earlier,, and wanted to post it and ask what people believe was being spoken by the son of man, that brings life here in this valley of death?
 
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charity

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Through the eyes of men it seems there's so much we have lost
As we look down the road where all the prodigals have walked
One by one the enemy has whispered lies
And led them off as slaves
But we know that you are god yours is the victory
We know there is more to come
That we may not yet see
So with the faith you've given us
We'll step into the valley unafraid, yeah
As we call out to dry bones come alive, come alive
We call out to dead hearts come alive, come alive
Up out of the ashes let us see an army rise
We call out to dry bones, come alive
God of endless mercy god of unrelenting love
Rescue every daughter bring us back the wayward son
And by your spirit breathe upon them show the world that you alone can save
You alone can save
As we call out to dry bones come alive, come alive
We call out to dead hearts come alive, come alive
Up out of the ashes let us see an army rise
We call out to dry bones come alive
So breathe, oh breath of god
Now breathe, oh breath of god
Breathe, oh breath of god now breathe
Breathe, oh breath of god
Now breathe, oh breath of god
Breathe, oh breath of god, now breathe
As we call out to dry bones come alive, come alive
We call out to dead hearts come alive, come alive
Up out of the ashes let us see an army rise
We call out to dry bones, come alive
We call out to dry bones, come alive
Oh come alive

I was looking at the lyrics of this song earlier,, and wanted to post it and ask what people believe was being spoken by the son of man, that brings life here in this valley of death?
Hello @Waiting on him,

* Are you thinking of Ezekiel 37?

Jehovah refers to Ezekiel there as, 'Son of Man', doesn't He? In verse three. Referring to his humanity. There it is God who tells him what to say to the dry bones surrounding him, words of prophecy regarding them. The bones being the whole house of Israel (Ezekiel 37:11).

* Speaking of resurrection as well as restoration. Praise God!

'Behold, O My People, I will open your graves,
and cause you to come up out of your graves
and bring you into the land of Israel,
and ye shall know that I am the Lord. '
(Ezekiel 37:12b & 13a)

* If I have mistaken your question, perhaps you would explain.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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upwardmoving

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Good quote - baptism save us.
Baptism is required. Water 'baptism', an element of this non-eternal world, 'baptism' is not. Only Jesus can baptize us into His body, His kingdom realm. Jesus, God, is Spirit. Therefore, all must be 'immersed' into Jesus Christ and maintain 'immersion' into Jesus Christ. That's what true 'baptism' is. Not a one-time sprinkle, dunk, or etc. But a continual 'immersion' spiritually.
 

FHII

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You cite the baptism of the Lord Jesus Christ as an example of why we should be baptised with water: Yet, the Lord was not baptised in water for salvation's sake, for He needed none: but that He should be revealed unto Israel; as John the Baptist tells us in the verse quoted (above).

Charity, I am a
You cite the baptism of the Lord Jesus Christ as an example of why we should be baptised with water: Yet, the Lord was not baptised in water for salvation's sake, for He needed none: but that He should be revealed unto Israel; as John the Baptist tells us in the verse quoted (above).
Charity, I am quoting you as a launching pad, but this involves many other ideas that have been put forth.

You are absolutely right. He was baptized so that he would be manifested to Israel. But there was another reason for the baptism:

Mark 1:4-5 KJV
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. [5] And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Mark 1:9 KJV
And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

These verses say that John baptized for the repentance and confession of sins. THAT was the purpose, and Jesus showed up.

So did he have sins to repent of or confess? If so (and I am not entirely against saying he did... Don't gasp too hard... After all, the Lord repented several times in the OT), folks have a problem when they say Jesus never sinned. And again, I am not suggesting he did.

But, if that was the reason for the baptism, and Jesus did not sin, who's sins was he repenting for?

Ours?

Well if Jesus was baptized for the remission of ours sins, does he need us to do so also?
 

charity

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Charity, I am a

Charity, I am quoting you as a launching pad, but this involves many other ideas that have been put forth.

You are absolutely right. He was baptized so that he would be manifested to Israel. But there was another reason for the baptism:

Mark 1:4-5 KJV
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. [5] And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Mark 1:9 KJV
And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

These verses say that John baptized for the repentance and confession of sins. THAT was the purpose, and Jesus showed up.

So did he have sins to repent of or confess? If so (and I am not entirely against saying he did... Don't gasp too hard... After all, the Lord repented several times in the OT), folks have a problem when they say Jesus never sinned. And again, I am not suggesting he did.

But, if that was the reason for the baptism, and Jesus did not sin, who's sins was he repenting for?

Ours?

Well if Jesus was baptized for the remission of ours sins, does he need us to do so also?
'The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto Him, and saith,
"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
This is He of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me:
for He was before me.
And I knew Him not:
but that He should be made manifest to Israel,
therefore am I come baptizing with water. ..."'

(John 1:29-31)
Hi @FHII,

'Charity, I am quoting you as a launching pad', you say! That sounds as if it could be painful! o_O

'In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

(Matthew 3:1-2)

* Yes, I agree that there was more than that one reason for the baptism in water carried out by John the Baptist, but I cannot agree with your thinking here I'm afraid.

'Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
And Jesus answering said unto him,
Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.
Then he suffered Him.
And Jesus, when He was baptized, went up straightway out of the water:
and, lo, the heavens were opened unto Him,
and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon Him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying,

"This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
(Matthew 3:13-17)

* This was the reason for the Lord's baptism:-

'And I knew Him not:
but that He should be made manifest to Israel,
therefore am I come baptizing with water.
And John bare record, saying,
"I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon Him.
And I knew him not:
but He that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me,

"Upon Whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him,
the same is He which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God."'
(John 1:31-34)

* That He be made manifest. It was also the Lord's anointing, but I have not got time to go into this now.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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FHII

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'The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto Him, and saith,
"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
This is He of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me:
for He was before me.
And I knew Him not:
but that He should be made manifest to Israel,
therefore am I come baptizing with water. ..."'

(John 1:29-31)
Hi @FHII,

'Charity, I am quoting you as a launching pad', you say! That sounds as if it could be painful! o_O

'In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

(Matthew 3:1-2)

* Yes, I agree that there was more than that one reason for the baptism in water carried out by John the Baptist, but I cannot agree with your thinking here I'm afraid.

'Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
And Jesus answering said unto him,
Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.
Then he suffered Him.
And Jesus, when He was baptized, went up straightway out of the water:
and, lo, the heavens were opened unto Him,
and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon Him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying,

"This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
(Matthew 3:13-17)

* This was the reason for the Lord's baptism:-

'And I knew Him not:
but that He should be made manifest to Israel,
therefore am I come baptizing with water.
And John bare record, saying,
"I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon Him.
And I knew him not:
but He that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me,

"Upon Whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him,
the same is He which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God."'
(John 1:31-34)

* That He be made manifest. It was also the Lord's anointing, but I have not got time to go into this now.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Not thinking anything... Just putting it out there for contemplation. John was baptising for the remission of sin, and Jesus showed up.

To say simply that the slreason was because he had to be made anifest to Israel seems odd. Why that event?

He was made manifest to Israel, but was that the reason he picked that event?

I wonder if that was the result but not the reason.

The reason he went to Jerusalem was the Passover, the result was his crucifixion and resurrection.
 

charity

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UOTE="FHII, post: 660880, member: 3789"]Not thinking anything... Just putting it out there for contemplation. John was baptising for the remission, and Jesus showed up.

To say simply that the slreason was because he had to be made anifest to Israel seems odd. Why that event?

He was made manifest to Israel, but was that the reason he picked that event?

I wonder if that was the result but not the reason.

The reason he went to Jerusalem was the Passover, the result was his crucifixion and resurrection.
[/QUOTE]
'Behold, the Lamb of God ,
which taketh away
The sin of the world'

(John 1:29b)

Hello @FHII,

It was essential that this event took place, at the time it did, for John the Baptist was the forerunner, prophesied In Malachi 3:1 & Malachi 4:6. God had sent Him at that time to baptize. He did not know the identity of the One he had been told would be made manifest: only how, and by what means that recognition would come.

The Lord Jesus Christ, and John himself, moved at the impulse of God's will and not their own. This occurence therefore was not random, but by God's hand. Enabling John to speak the words:- 'Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world'.

Praise God!

Thank you. :)
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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