Here's what your Barack thinks about God and His word...

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

tomwebster

New Member
Dec 11, 2006
2,041
107
0
76
(Creyn;68486)
Question, Jordan, I was always under the impression that the anti-Christ referred to a man in close association with satan... I didn't really see anything in those verses to contradict that.What makes you think that the term "anti-Christ" refers strictly to satan himself?
Scripture tells us their will be many antichrist's (men) but only one "The antichrist" (Satan).
 

Creyn

New Member
Jan 24, 2009
26
0
0
48
Again though, even 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, refers to a "man"... I understand that there have been many men throughout time who people of the day called the anti-Christ, and that only one would be, but won't he still be a man? Or, at least, satan disguised as one?
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
(Creyn;68493)
Again though, even 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, refers to a "man"... I understand that there have been many men throughout time who people of the day called the anti-Christ, and that only one would be, but won't he still be a man? Or, at least, satan disguised as one?
Dear Creyn, the bible says that angels are also refered to as a man... We are made in the image of God and the angels cause we existed before we were humans.Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.... as for Satan... he is an archangel.Isaiah 14:12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!Isaiah 14:13 - For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:Isaiah 14:14 - I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.Isaiah 14:15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.Isaiah 14:16 - They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;......II Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;II Thessalonians 2:4 - Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
 

Creyn

New Member
Jan 24, 2009
26
0
0
48
I'm still confused though... where exactly does it say that angels are referred to as man? What I see from Isaiah 14:16 is that people will see the devil revealed and wonder essentially, "is this the same as the guy we've been following, who set himself up in the House of the Lord?"But I'm not sure that it doesn't mean he didn't come, disguised in the form of a man first, right?
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
(Creyn;68497)
I'm still confused though... where exactly does it say that angels are referred to as man? What I see from Isaiah 14:16 is that people will see the devil revealed and wonder essentially, "is this the same as the guy we've been following, who set himself up in the House of the Lord?"But I'm not sure that it doesn't mean he didn't come, disguised in the form of a man first, right?
The angels met Lot and they are called men.Genesis 19:1 - And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;Genesis 19:10 - But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.Genesis 19:12 - And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:Genesis 19:15 - And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
 

Creyn

New Member
Jan 24, 2009
26
0
0
48
Yes, there are many instances, it seems to me, of Angels taken on the appearance of men in order to disguise themselves... isn't that part of the narrative of the verses though? To tell US, the reader, that they're really angels in the disguise men?
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
(Creyn;68499)
Yes, there are many instances, it seems to me, of Angels taken on the appearance of men in order to disguise themselves... isn't that part of the narrative of the verses though? To tell US, the reader, that they're really angels in the disguise men?
They are men... they don't have flesh bodies like we do and Christ (when He was born)I Corinthians 15:44 - It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.Angels only have spiritual bodies. And we are going to have our ORIGINAL back when Christ comes back.Here's another clue.Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
 

Creyn

New Member
Jan 24, 2009
26
0
0
48
Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.[/QUOTE]When God said let us make men in "our" image, do you think he was referring to the image of Him and the angels? Or could He have been referring to the image of the Trinity?
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
(Creyn;68502)
(Jordan;68500)
...Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
When God said let us make men in "our" image, do you think he was referring to the image of Him and the angels? Or could He have been referring to the image of the Trinity?Angels are created before men, Before the creation week. (Genesis 1:1-2) Flesh men was made here. (Genesis 1:26-28)Secondly, I'm a bit uncomfortable with using the word Trinity. I prefer using the word Godhead as it is written only three times. The word Trinity is not there.Thirdly, God is not three people. It's more like God has three roles. Hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
 

Creyn

New Member
Jan 24, 2009
26
0
0
48
I understand what you're saying about the Trinity. It confuses many people because they can't understand how one God can have three distinct parts. I think of it as a pie... though it be composed of three pieces, it is still one pie. While we know that Jesus is God incarnate, he nonetheless still prays to The Father when he's in the Garden of Gethsemane, and I don't believe he's just talking to Himself, right? So The Father must be a distinct PART of His existence.But my question remains, I think. When God said "Let us make man in Our image" was he referring to Him and the angels? Or was He referring to The Trinity or Godhead?
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
(Creyn;68506)
I understand what you're saying about the Trinity. It confuses many people because they can't understand how one God can have three distinct parts. I think of it as a pie... though it be composed of three pieces, it is still one pie. While we know that Jesus is God incarnate, he nonetheless still prays to The Father when he's in the Garden of Gethsemane, and I don't believe he's just talking to Himself, right? So The Father must be a distinct PART of His existence.But my question remains, I think. When God said "Let us make man in Our image" was he referring to Him and the angels? Or was He referring to The Trinity or Godhead?
Himself and the angels, as we are made in the image of God and the angels.I look at God like this. He teaches nature to us as a tool.My name is Jordan. I am a son, a brother, 4x uncle, cousin, nephew. Am I still Jordan or am I eight different person?The same way I see this with God.1 God (Person) Three different roles. The difference between Him and us is He is everywhere and we aren't as He is not limited to flesh.
 

Creyn

New Member
Jan 24, 2009
26
0
0
48
Wait... before we get lost in the mystery of the God Head... where does it say that we are made in the image of God AND the angels?
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
(Creyn;68511)
Wait... before we get lost in the mystery of the God Head... where does it say that we are made in the image of God AND the angels?
God created our souls way before we were / are humans. Jeremiah 1:5 is a hint of God saying that we were created before being humans.Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.So doesGenesis 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth....I Corinthians 15:44 - It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body....And Satan (archangel, Isaiah 14:12-16, Ezekiel 28) and Genesis 19 both clearly indicated that angels are referred to as men. The bible is like a puzzle, an onion as it has layers of levels understanding. God always teaches us in nature. It's His way of teaching us and I am always in awe.Creyn, it's ok if you disagree with me, but it will fit sooner or later. Just put it on the shelf if you don't understand.
 

Creyn

New Member
Jan 24, 2009
26
0
0
48
I'm sorry... but no where does the Word overtly state that we are created in the image of the angels. God, yes clearly, definitively, but not the angels.In fact, it flies in the face of most biblical scholars teaching that we are MORE IMPORTANT to God THAN the angels, that He gave US the privilege of being made in His image, not them.Now, I'm sure its unintentional, but the last comments about it "fitting sooner or later," sound a bit condescending. Keep in mind, that just because one is new to the forum, does not mean one is new to the Bible or to theology. I think you may want to examine your own interpretations as much as you examine others'
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
(Creyn;68516)
I'm sorry... but no where does the Word overtly state that we are created in the image of the angels. God, yes clearly, definitively, but not the angels.In fact, it flies in the face of most biblical scholars teaching that we are MORE IMPORTANT to God THAN the angels, that He gave US the privilege of being made in His image, not them.Now, I'm sure its unintentional, but the last comments about it "fitting sooner or later," sound a bit condescending. Keep in mind, that just because one is new to the forum, does not mean one is new to the Bible or to theology. I think you may want to examine your own interpretations as much as you examine others'
Actually, It's biblical. You just don't understand it yet... I'm not angry. I just want to share how awesome God is. Job 38:7 - When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?Remember this is a bible study site. Christians (and Jews for the matter) that loves God could careless about religion or the interpretation of men. God can interpret His Words on His own without my help or anybody elsesAgain, I can only show you how awesome God truly is... because I care about you.So please don't accuse me for what I do know. I'm still a learner and will always be a learner as I am a student in God's Words.
 

Creyn

New Member
Jan 24, 2009
26
0
0
48
And to you ONLY has God revealed the meaning of His word? Sounds a bit prideful to me.Besides, isn't this forum called "Christianity Board"? I'm sorry you've been so burned by the churches you've tried, but frankly, you act as though no one BUT you has ever thought deeply about scripture and that's just not true.When I say "biblical scholar" that's exactly what I mean... someone who's devoted their entire intellectual life to study of the The Word.Have you?
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
(Creyn;68519)
And to you ONLY has God revealed the meaning of His word? Sounds a bit prideful to me.Besides, isn't this forum called "Christianity Board"? I'm sorry you've been so burned by the churches you've tried, but frankly, you act as though no one BUT you has ever thought deeply about scripture and that's just not true.When I say "biblical scholar" that's exactly what I mean... someone who's devoted their entire intellectual life to study of the The Word.Have you?
Prideful? *sighs* This is one thing I hate in my life. I hate to be accused. But I guess it's better off stopping now. So I'll just agree to disagree. You are free to call me whatever as well. Don't care.
 

Christina

New Member
Apr 10, 2006
10,885
101
0
15
(Creyn;68516)
I'm sorry... but no where does the Word overtly state that we are created in the image of the angels. God, yes clearly, definitively, but not the angels.In fact, it flies in the face of most biblical scholars teaching that we are MORE IMPORTANT to God THAN the angels, that He gave US the privilege of being made in His image, not them.Now, I'm sure its unintentional, but the last comments about it "fitting sooner or later," sound a bit condescending. Keep in mind, that just because one is new to the forum, does not mean one is new to the Bible or to theology. I think you may want to examine your own interpretations as much as you examine others'
excuse me but who would you suggest our is ?who was he talking to ?have you not read about the Angel that wrestled with Jacob or the Angels that visted Lot ....Angels always appear as men ...Angels are called Sons of God they were created also ...So just tell me please who you think OUR image is talking about we only have one God image,= likeness (of resemblance)If you think this all the way through God is speaking to his Sons, the Angels .... They are obviously then made in his Image (Gods likeness)because he says our image So when its time to create man He says to the Angels (his sons) let us make man in OUR IMAGE thus we were made in Gods image who made the Angels in his image also ,, so in fact we are made in the image of God but also the Angels ...but a little lower as we are in flesh they are not
 

AJG

New Member
Jan 15, 2009
16
0
0
53
You know what, give Obama some time! For being christians some of you are extremely judgmental and straight out being absurd. I am sorry, calling Obama the anti-christ is probably the most ignorant and uneducated statement I have heard. Seriously do not say that at work or with a crowd, you don't want to embarrass yourselfs.So did I vote for Obama? yes I did. Some of you are too high and mighty to not vote? Get with it. God is not the president nor Jesus so take some action. Last thing GOD wants you to do is stand around complaining but not getting involved. In all honestly I think Obama is an incredible speaker and has a dynamic presence, something we haven't had in a president in long time. I am going continue to be optimistic and hope for a change.
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
(AJG;68523)
You know what, give Obama some time! For being christians some of you are extremely judgmental and straight out being absurd. I am sorry, calling Obama the anti-christ is probably the most ignorant and uneducated statement I have heard. Seriously do not say that at work or with a crowd, you don't want to embarrass yourselfs.So did I vote for Obama? yes I did. Some of you are too high and mighty to not vote? Get with it. God is not the president nor Jesus so take some action. Last thing GOD wants you to do is stand around complaining but not getting involved. In all honestly I think Obama is an incredible speaker and has a dynamic presence, something we haven't had in a president in long time. I am going continue to be optimistic and hope for a change.
Well, guess what, we don't support any kind of liberals. They all hate God. And we don't support any actions against God. One more thing, you have no idea what kind of judgment we are making. Is it the sinner? No! Is it the actions? Yes! You are right on one thing, Obama is not the Anti-Christ and he never will be.One more thing, guess what? God controls ALL the nations.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.