Flesh and Spirit

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RichardBurger

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Flesh and Spirit:I have been studying the difference between the flesh and the Spirit and would like to share what I understand about it.In the scripture below we see that Jesus made a difference between the flesh and the Spirit in verse 6. It does not say the flesh is born again.John 3:5-6 NKJV5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.In the scripture below we see Jesus describing the Spiritual nature of the child of God that has been reborn of the Holy Spirit.John 3:7-8 NKJV7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." In the scriptures below we see that Paul is also saying that there are two natures to the child of God, one born of the flesh and one born of the Spirit of God. These two natures are always with a child of God and are always warring against each other.Rom 7:14-20 NKJV14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. In the scripture below we see that flesh and blood will not enter heaven. Only the Spirit that has been born of God will enter heaven.1 Cor 15:50 NKJV50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. NKJVCorruption can not be made un-corrupted. So we must consider that the flesh can never be made Righteous or Holy. When the scriptures tell us we must put on righteousness, or put on Holiness, it is not talking about our efforts to make our flesh nature righteous or holy. It is saying that we must “put on Jesus” in the Spirit. As Paul said in the following scripture.Col 1:19-23 NKJV19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight —23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. In the scriptures below we see that flesh and blood can never be made perfect, or righteous, or Holy, by the will and efforts of the flesh, period. The born again child of God, in the Spirit, is only righteous and Holy because they have been born again and placed “in Christ” by an operation of the Holy Spirit. They have put on Jesus and just as He was perfect in faith before God so are we perfect when we place our faith, trust, confidence and hope in Him.Gal 3:3 NKJV3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?In the scriptures below we see that salvation (being born again in the Spirit) can only be accomplished by the will of God and He (God) will save all that receive Jesus as their savior. It is also clear that those that do not receive Jesus as their savior, do not have the right to become children of God.John 1:10-13 NKJV10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. This writing is intended to help us understand the flesh nature and the Spirit nature of the child of God. It is not a writing that is meant to put down the efforts of the child of God to live a life that is pleasing to God.Richard
 

setfree

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This is of interest to me, because I find a difference in discipling the flesh and living out of your spirit. We are to put the flesh in submission to the Holy Spirit. We are to worship in spirit and truth, not out of our flesh.It is our spirit that has been born of the Holy Spirit, not our flesh. We have to overcome our flesh by the Holy Spirit.
 

Christina

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The term born again is one of those that men have taken great liberty with born again has nothing to do with flesh body per-say it was corrupt from the beginning and always will be we are made a new man in spirit upon belief and repentance this has nothing to do with water baptisim which is the outward sign of the inward change ... 2 Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. So how do we become this new Man (be born again) through faith made possible through Jesus ChristColossians 3:1 "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."Now that Christ has come and paid the price for our sins, what we should be doing as a Christians. Now that you have Christ, rest in Him and stay away from those that would drag you into traditions and ways of men as the Pharisee'sColossians 3:2 "Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth."Your "affection" is your mind [your spirit], and in the Greek tongue is "phroneo". Focus your thoughts on things above of God, and not on things of this world. Why do we set our mind on those things above? Because that is where Christ is, as we read in that first verse, "where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God [the father]Colossians 3:3 "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."Paul is reminding the Colossians that you should be dead to the earthly things because your eternal life is hidden in the Godhead, in the Father through your faith in Jesus Christ. Being hidden in the Godhead, means that not everyone can see the truths of salvation, whereby you can receive eternal life through your belief in Jesus Christ, and the forgiveness that He gives when you receive your salvation by repentance by faith.When you seek the higher things of God, many things that you do will seem different to those with the mind of the worldThe name of Jesus is our credentials before our heavenly Father that you believe in Jesus the Christ and accept His blood for the forgiveness of your sins. Then to search for the higher plain is to do the work that our Heavenly Father has for us,Colossians 3:4 "When Christ, Who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory."Christ is our eternal live, the life of our very soul. You don't have eternal life without Christ. When Christ shall appear at His second advent during the final day of this earth age of the flesh at the seventh and last trumpet. On that day we shall all be changed, not raptured, and but changed into our new spiritual and incorrupt bodies, and be with Him in His glory. Jesus Christ is coming back to earth with and His Millennium will be set up right her on earth. Jesus Christ is worthy to receive all the glory, for without Him there is no salvation. When Jesus returns He does not come as a babe to be crucified, as He did in the first advent, but as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Colossians 3:5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:""Mortify" means to "make dead" spiritually. Take those members out of your body and exclude them of your process of thinking. This is very difficult to do in the physical man. All those parts of your body that would cause you to sin, to fornicate, commit idolatry and every other sin that you would do in your flesh body, Paul is saying make that part of your body dead to your spiritual thinking. This of course is speaking in the spiritual sense, for when we are in Christ we are to put all those things from us. Coveting and inordinate passions, lusts and desires will lead you into all sorts of evil thoughts and deeds. Paul is telling you to close your mind to them, and put them away from you.Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
 

Martin W.

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RichardI read your post slowly and carefully and agree. I had arrived at similar conclusions years ago. With deep thinking and study you have explained it very well. Much appreciated.It is surprising how many Christians do not quite grasp this subject. Yet it is essential in order to understand everything properly .Martin W.
 

RichardBurger

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This is of interest to me, because I find a difference in discipling the flesh and living out of your spirit. We are to put the flesh in submission to the Holy Spirit. We are to worship in spirit and truth, not out of our flesh.It is our spirit that has been born of the Holy Spirit, not our flesh. We have to overcome our flesh by the Holy Spirit.
Yes we do, but it is not our efforts or will that overcomes. I believe we have already overcome the flesh or we wouldn't be children of God. We overcame by our faith, trust, confidence and hope in Christ. God has willed that everyone that puts their faith, trust, confidence and hope in His Son's work on the cross will be saved. They are made children of God by God's power (will) and they are kept His children by His power (will).Those born of the Holy Spirit are held captive in their hearts by the Holy Spirit. It is the same powerful Spirit that kept Paul preaching the wonderful riches we find in Christ while being persecuted by the religious and we should be doing the same thing.Richard
 

RichardBurger

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RichardI read your post slowly and carefully and agree. I had arrived at similar conclusions years ago. With deep thinking and study you have explained it very well. Much appreciated.It is surprising how many Christians do not quite grasp this subject. Yet it is essential in order to understand everything properly .Martin W.
We were told by Jesus that the Holy Spirit would be sent to us as a teacher and a comforter. I know that he is in me. Not that I am special, or because of what I do, but because Jesus is special and I trust in Him. God has given me His Spirit as His guarantee that I am His child. Jesus watches over His sheep and will not lose one.Richard
 

RichardBurger

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The term born again is one of those that men have taken great liberty with born again has nothing to do with flesh body per-say it was corrupt from the beginning and always will be we are made a new man in spirit upon belief and repentance this has nothing to do with water baptisim which is the outward sign of the inward change ... 2 Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. So how do we become this new Man (be born again) through faith made possible through Jesus ChristColossians 3:1 "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."Now that Christ has come and paid the price for our sins, what we should be doing as a Christians. Now that you have Christ, rest in Him and stay away from those that would drag you into traditions and ways of men as the Pharisee'sColossians 3:2 "Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth."Your "affection" is your mind [your spirit], and in the Greek tongue is "phroneo". Focus your thoughts on things above of God, and not on things of this world. Why do we set our mind on those things above? Because that is where Christ is, as we read in that first verse, "where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God [the father]Colossians 3:3 "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."Paul is reminding the Colossians that you should be dead to the earthly things because your eternal life is hidden in the Godhead, in the Father through your faith in Jesus Christ. Being hidden in the Godhead, means that not everyone can see the truths of salvation, whereby you can receive eternal life through your belief in Jesus Christ, and the forgiveness that He gives when you receive your salvation by repentance by faith.When you seek the higher things of God, many things that you do will seem different to those with the mind of the worldThe name of Jesus is our credentials before our heavenly Father that you believe in Jesus the Christ and accept His blood for the forgiveness of your sins. Then to search for the higher plain is to do the work that our Heavenly Father has for us,Colossians 3:4 "When Christ, Who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory."Christ is our eternal live, the life of our very soul. You don't have eternal life without Christ. When Christ shall appear at His second advent during the final day of this earth age of the flesh at the seventh and last trumpet. On that day we shall all be changed, not raptured, and but changed into our new spiritual and incorrupt bodies, and be with Him in His glory. Jesus Christ is coming back to earth with and His Millennium will be set up right her on earth. Jesus Christ is worthy to receive all the glory, for without Him there is no salvation. When Jesus returns He does not come as a babe to be crucified, as He did in the first advent, but as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Colossians 3:5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:""Mortify" means to "make dead" spiritually. Take those members out of your body and exclude them of your process of thinking. This is very difficult to do in the physical man. All those parts of your body that would cause you to sin, to fornicate, commit idolatry and every other sin that you would do in your flesh body, Paul is saying make that part of your body dead to your spiritual thinking. This of course is speaking in the spiritual sense, for when we are in Christ we are to put all those things from us. Coveting and inordinate passions, lusts and desires will lead you into all sorts of evil thoughts and deeds. Paul is telling you to close your mind to them, and put them away from you.Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Thanks for sharing your ideas with me/us. Most I can agree on.However, I do believe in the rapture of the church and can give just as many verses of scripture to support it as others can give to say it isn't true. In the end it comes down to what you, as an individual, want to believe based on what the Holy Spirit has revealed to you in the scriptures.But this thread is not about the rapture unless you want to make it one. It is a thread to help us understand our new spiritual nature.Richard
 

Jordan

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Thanks for sharing your ideas with me/us. Most I can agree on.However, I do believe in the rapture of the church and can give just as many verses of scripture to support it as others can give to say it isn't true. In the end it comes down to what you, as an individual, want to believe based on what the Holy Spirit has revealed to you in the scriptures.But this thread is not about the rapture unless you want to make it one. It is a thread to help us understand our new spiritual nature.Richard
Yea, well, a new spiritual nature can not be carnal, nor can a new spiritual nature believes in lies which are doctrines of men! A new spiritual nature only relies on Christ. And to believe a lie (which is up to you) is diefinately trying to put new wine into old bottles... It does not work that way. It will fail.
 

RichardBurger

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I took the liberty of cleaning this thread up a bit. In the interest of the OP, let's keep this on topic. Thanks!
Thank you Denver. Many threads have been destroyed by posters getting off the subject of the thread.Richard
 

RichardBurger

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Additional scriptures with references to the Holy Spirit for use in this thread.John 6:6363 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.NKJVJohn 7:37-3937 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. NKJVJohn 14:16-1816 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever — 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. NKJVJohn 16:12-1512 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.NKJVRom 8:9-119 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. NKJVRom 8:12-1712 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors — not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out,"Abba, Father."16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,17 and if children, then heirs — heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. NKJV1 Cor 2:10-1210 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. NKJV1 Cor 12:33 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. NKJV1 Cor 12:4-114 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. NKJV2 Cor 5:1-81 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. NKJVGal 5:16-1816 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. NKJVThe moderators should delete those they find will lead to other discussions.Richard
 

RichardBurger

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I had hoped someone would add input to this threadWe see in the scriptures below that the things done in the flesh do not profit the child of God.John 6:63 NKJV63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.****We can see below that the “new man” (born of the Holy Spirit) was not formed until Jesus was glorified. In other words their was no “new man” until after Jesus died on the cross and was raised from the dead.John 7:37-39 NKJV37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. ***We see below a promise made, to the children of God, that He would not leave them as orphans and that the Spirit would abide with the child of God forever.John 14:16-18 NKJV16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever — 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. ***We see below that it is the Holy Spirit that is a teacher to the child of God. It is also seen that the purpose of the child of God is to glorify Jesus, not man.John 16:12-15 NKJV12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.***We see below that if a person does not have the Holy Spirit in their hearts they are not children of God. It also says that since the Spirit of God dwells in a child of God, he/she is righteous because the Spirit is righteous. It also says that the Holy Spirit will change and raise a child of God’s mortal body.Rom 8:9-11 NKJV9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.***We see below that a child of God puts to death the deeds of the flesh. This does not mean the children of God can, by their efforts, stop sinning in the flesh. Nor does it mean flesh can become sinless. The child of God mortifies the deeds of the flesh; he/she sees the evil in the heart and are humbled before God because of them. The child of God is depending on God‘s grace to save him/her from their sinful flesh. To prove to the child of God that He (God) has done this He has given the children of God His Holy Spirit in their hearts to bare witness that they are children of God.Rom 8:12-17 NKJV12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors — not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out,"Abba, Father."16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,17 and if children, then heirs — heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.***We see below that the child of God knows the gift that God has given them.1 Cor 2:10-12 NKJV10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.*** We see below a statement that is often ignored. Many say they believe in God and the scriptures but that is not the same as calling Him their Lord. No one, without the Holy Spirit, can really call Jesus their Lord.1 Cor 12:3 NKJV3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. ***I included this scripture to show the gifts of the Holy Spirit.1 Cor 12:4-11 NKJV4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. ***In the verses below we again see that there is a difference between the sinful flesh and the born again of the spirit child of God. It is further proof that we can do nothing to inprove the sinful flesh and the the children of God want to be free from it. It also states the child of God is confident because of the Holy Spirit that is in their hearts.2 Cor 5:1-8 NKJV1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.***The children of God set their minds on the things of God continuously. Their hope and desires are in the Spirit and they are not under the law that governs the flesh.Gal 5:16-18 NKJV16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.***The child of God practices righteousness when they place their faith, trust, confidence and hope in Jesus’ work on the cross. It should be self evident that the scripture defines two sets of people; one of unbelieving flesh and one that has been born of God. In verse 9 we see a bold statement that the child of God (born of the Spirit) cannot sin because the child is born of God. Many cannot resolve this. The theme is carried over in 1 John 5:18 below.1 John 3:7-9 NKJV7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 1 John 5:18 NKJV18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.***Since flesh and blood will perish in a grave we are not to live our lives in the flesh as if it counts for much. How can a person do that? By constantly knowing that they are now a child of God and can dismiss the deeds of the body as if the body is already dead. As Paul said, “he had no confidence in the flesh“.Phil 3:2-3 NKJV2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation!3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,Rom 7:25 NKJV25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.Things to think about.Richard
 

Carico

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Yes we do, but it is not our efforts or will that overcomes. I believe we have already overcome the flesh or we wouldn't be children of God. We overcame by our faith, trust, confidence and hope in Christ. God has willed that everyone that puts their faith, trust, confidence and hope in His Son's work on the cross will be saved. They are made children of God by God's power (will) and they are kept His children by His power (will).Those born of the Holy Spirit are held captive in their hearts by the Holy Spirit. It is the same powerful Spirit that kept Paul preaching the wonderful riches we find in Christ while being persecuted by the religious and we should be doing the same thing.
No, we are in the process of being made holy. 1 Peter explains that we are to abstain from sinful desires "which war against your soul." This is a process of putting to death our sinful nature by the Spirit in increasing measure as 2 Peter 1:8 explains. So as Paul tells us in Philippians 3:12, "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Jesus Christ took hold of me."
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RichardBurger

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No, we are in the process of being made holy. 1 Peter explains that we are to abstain from sinful desires "which war against your soul." This is a process of putting to death our sinful nature by the Spirit in increasing measure as 2 Peter 1:8 explains. So as Paul tells us in Philippians 3:12, "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Jesus Christ took hold of me."
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You have the right to believe as you wish.Are you saying that a child of God is not really a child of God but is only a child of God in training? = "progessive salvation"I do not believe in progressive salvation, justification or sanctification of the flesh before God. Nor do I believe the flesh justifies the Spirit.John 6:63 NKJV63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.Now you are going to challege me with your scriptures. I think you should explain what you see in the ones I posted first.I am not going to be led all over the place with scriptures taken out of context. You should notice that I gave context in the ones I posted. Jesus said to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect. Can you do that?No one can do the above except in the Spirit. The Spirit is perfect because it is born of God. The born again Spirit is not progessively born again.God has not established a plan of salvation that leave man to finish His work. If a child of God is not saved from his/her sinful flesh nature then there is no salvation.Thanks for your reply.Richard
 

Carico

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You have the right to believe as you wish.Are you saying that a child of God is not really a child of God but is only a child of God in training? = "progessive salvation"I do not believe in progressive salvation, justification or sanctification of the flesh before God. Nor do I believe the flesh justifies the Spirit.John 6:63 NKJV63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.Now you are going to challege me with your scriptures. I think you should explain what you see in the ones I posted first.I am not going to be led all over the scriptures. Jesus said to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect. Can you do that?No one can do the above except in the Spirit. The Spirit is perfect because it is born of God. The born again Spirit is not progessively born again.Thanks for your reply.Richard
Yes, we are in training. Once we are born again, we are infants in Christ. We are on milk and not ready for solid food yet as Paul explains. Peter also tells us that we possess the fruits of the Spirit in increasing quantity as we are being made holy. That's the process of spiritual growth. I can't think of anything more stagnating and empty than not growing closer to God and learning more and more as we grow in Christ. We don't become as sinless as Christ once we are born again. Otherwise, we would be worshiped right along with Christ. We still have a sinful nature that wars against our soul unlike Christ. And that sinful nature will always be with us in decreasing quantity as it is put to death by the Spirit. That's what paul means when he says he "dies daily."
 

RichardBurger

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Yes, we are in training. Once we are born again, we are infants in Christ. We are on milk and not ready for solid food yet as Paul explains. Peter also tells us that we possess the fruits of the Spirit in increasing quantity as we are being made holy. That's the process of spiritual growth. I can't think of anything more stagnating and empty than not growing closer to God and learning more and more as we grow in Christ. We don't become as sinless as Christ once we are born again. Otherwise, we would be worshiped right along with Christ. We still have a sinful nature that wars against our soul unlike Christ. And that sinful nature will always be with us in decreasing quantity as it is put to death by the Spirit. That's what paul means when he says he "dies daily."
Just wonderful, You are completely ignoring the scriptures in the OP of this thread to start a discussion of your choosing. --- Why don't you start your own thread and call it Progressive Salvation.If you wish for me to continue responding to you on this thread then tell me/us what you see in these scriptures that were in the OP on this thread.1 John 5:18 NKJV18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.1 John 3:7-9 NKJV7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. Verse 9 above clearly states that the born of God, child of God, does not sin. Do you believe it says what it means or can you find some way to get around it?I think it is your intention to make this thread a thread about "works." If so you really should start one of your own.Richard