I doubt that God incarnated, but believe Jesus is God

I taught that God incarnated in flesh for about 35 years.

I now think that God did not become a man, but that a man(Jesus Christ, a redo of the 1st Adam) was made God after the resurrection and subsequent Col 2:9 effect on his post resurrection(quickening spirit) body.

Your thoughts, arguments and comments much welcome here....

Nomad said:

What you are espousing here is an ancient heresy called "adoptionism." Scripture is clearly against such an idea. Allow me to summarize. Speaking of Christ, John says the Word was God, all things were made through him, and the Word became flesh. Simply put, Jesus was God incarnate.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

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No, this is not adopionism.

I am saying something unique.

I think Jesus was a redo of the 1st Adam. An individual of a man with a God.
He was full of and led by the Holy Ghost.

Now, He has a spirit body and all of his God dwells inside his new omnipresent spirit body.

This allows him to be an individual with a God per Rev 3:12, yet be God per this full indwelling by default.

This concept agrees with all verses of Jesus and his God, yet being God.

Enoch111 said:

This is what happens when people (1) try to overthink spiritual things, (2) allow false teachers to influence them, (3) start using human reasoning to *figure out* divine mysteries.

So your conclusions are TOTALLY FALSE. And we only need to look at John 1:1,2 to prove that (as already noted above).

Recommendation: Abandon your heresy immediately and ask God to forgive your foolishness.

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I suppose the mystery of God is still a mystery to most, but that is mostly because of presumption of a belief system.

Paul says the mystery is defined via God manifest in the flesh.

There are 3 basic beliefs.

1....God is human Christ (oneness)

2....God and Divine Christ(Trinitarianism)

3....God inside individual of a man Christ....(Bible)

It is important to figure out the mystery, rather than ignore it.

amadeus said:

Why is it important?

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Great question.

I think God cares that we address Him properly.

On Mars hill, Paul thought so.

I have gotten tired of defending my former belief systems and had to start from scratch.

Now I make every verse regarding Godhead doctrine harmonize, and was shocked to find out that modern theology has defects in scripture.

The hardest thing I had to do was let go of my beliefs to regain them.

FHII said:

1 John 3:16 KJV
Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

This says God laid down his life for us. Yes it is talking about Jesus, but it's not saying God laid down Jesus's life for us; it's saying God laid down God's life for us. Jesus wasn't mentioned in this chapter until well after verse 16.

1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

This verse really needs no comment.

(Side note: there's a few more great "3:16" verses out there besides John 3:16!)

Here is another that will need some explaining:
1 John 4:1-3 KJV
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. [2] Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: [3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

It really isn't a big deal to confess that there was a guy named Jesus. Jocephus said he came in the flesh, the Koran admits he came in the flesh... In other words, there was a man in the flesh named Jesus Christ. But the problem is believing who he said he was.

Nomad already gave the John 1 verses, which I would add to these verses. So I am afraid I cannot support your belief on this.

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God died?

Who teaches a that?

I know God’s son died.

God was manifest inside Jesus like 2 Cor 5:19 also says?

I’ll buy that.

Christ is come in flesh? Absolutely.



Also....,

You mean the spoken word of God being made flesh like everything else was made in verse 2 of John 1?

That does not say God enrobed Himself in a human nature.

It say God’s word made a man.

Modern theology insinuates God has no voice, but a second person in a Godhead is the word of the 1st person.

Unless there is 2 words of God.

Can anyone please elaborate about God’s human nature?

Does all of God have a human nature imbedded in His being?

Just a portion of God?

Why did God inject Himself with the virus of human nature to create a weakness in Himself?

amadeus said:

My actual beliefs for the moment are certainly not fixed. What I see is the Joseph to Pharaoh relationship being a type or shadow of what Jesus is to God the Father:

"Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou." Gen 41:40

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Interesting.

Please elaborate.

Thanks.

amadeus said:

While I believe that everything we can know about God is important. This is not I believe the most important. I've been Trinitarian, Oneness and Duality, but have never been exactly where you are.

I have, however, done this thing of going back to nothing... starting from scratch. It has not been a one time thing with me.

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Great post.

I think the subject of the Godhead is wide open.

I think the RCC hijacked the Godhead teachings of the scriptures from the 1st century.

They introduced the idea of God having a human nature centuries later per mass commentary.

Now both trinitarians and oneness argue over this so called "hypostatic union" of God.

Here is my(brief) take on what happened in the last 2000 years....


The disciples taught Jesus has a God.

Jesus said he has a God even after decades of being in heaven. Rev 3:12(4 times in 1 verse).

We see the LAMB and God in the entirety of the book of Revelation.

Paul taught, there is one God, AND one mediator....the man....


The RCC taught God "the Son" became a man(5th century).

They never looked back, but were obsessed with commentary, ignoring the scriptures.

Protestants adopted this RCC commentary.

Oneness broke away from the trinity movement, but never shook the hook of the RCC(God becoming a man).

Oneness simply modified this "Hypostatic Union" doctrine, saying "the Father took on flesh AKA the son".

The 2 groups are still arguing incessantly about their version of the H/U doctrine, with the originator of H/U, smiling as "Mama".

She, the RCC, presides over the H/U doctrine....Teaching H/U is teaching ancient RCC commentary.

We need to break free from the RCC completely, let Jesus have his God back, and figure out how he(Jesus) is our God in the meantime.

We need to stop looking at these verses though the lens of the H/U doctrine, but rather, through the lens of the pre-commentary Apostles.

Enoch111 said:

You and I know that what you just said is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. Now either you want the truth or you do not. If you do not, then you will continue to play these games. But the Bible is extremely clear and plain in revealing that JESUS IS GOD (from eternity to eternity). There is no presumption, there is no belief system, just the plain written Word of God.

I am surprised that someone calling himself *Truther* is happy to engage in self-deception. Frankly I expected more from you, not heresy.

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If you call "God having a human nature" the truth, then you just truthfully demoted an Almighty Spirit God to weakness.

I hope you don't believe God humbled Himself to wicked humans and evil spirits, then served them, then died, then rose from death ?

Those that think Phil 2 is "God becoming a man" think that inadvertently.

Now, I can see an individual, independent human(last Adam), a begotten son of God(and Mary), sinless and royal, thinking it not robbery to be equal with his begotten Father, then humbling himself, serving wicked humans, dying and resurrecting.

Which do you prefer?