The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

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CovenantPromise

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The symbol of the sign of Immanuel appears in the celestial bodies and comes to its fullness Sept. 23 , 2017and concludes over Israel. I began writing in forums in 2017. My fullness began to become known. It was interesting to hear secular astronomers find it interesting (The SEPT,23 2017sign) Christian astronomers speculate on Rev12. which it seem to align to, with precision . And to see and hear occult men and women (Kabbalah , Illuminati and Masonic etc.) mock it and send coded messages about the sign in their music and movies , it was only not quite 2 1/2 years ago. The purpose of the sign ,as all signs are, is to let us know what season we are heading toward. It first proceeds us then leads us to what is ahead! Just as the sign of Christ's birth lead the wise men to where He was. We are entering a time of great spiritual birth for believers and a time of peril unprecedented since the world began. The wise people saw the sign that has never appeared in the heavens before and so did the occult people.

Not since the actual sign on earth- Mother Miryam(Mary) the sign of Immanuel, was on earth has this sign appeared . But in the celestial part of the heavens ? It is God's time piece which denotes change. I am not saying the stars govern us, but it is His celestial time piece.
Genesis 1:14-18
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: …
The MOTHER OF CHRIST:
Isaiah 7:13
The Sign of Immanuel
…13Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God as well? 14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and she will call Him Immanuel. 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.…
And with that sign is the other sign, the dragon.
The celestial sign mirrored her exulting, travail and GLORIFIED the KING . It mirrored what she became on earth and what she is in heaven. And shouts to the prophecy of Rev.12 which was written after the ascension of Christ and her Assumption with Him to heaven.

The spiritual emerging of undiluted doctrine and the authority accompanied with it will bring about that which is Christ and all gifts.The gifts that have not been as numerous (as they will be) since the first Elect .The end Time Elect - is sister to the first in all ways .This is going to shake the foundation of the earth. It is the culmination of all the first to know worked so hard for. It is also a time that all that has been - "As in the days of Noah so shall it be in the days of the coming of the the Son of man, will be again. Everything from the times before ,combined with all the debauchery today, will be in hyper drive!
 
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CovenantPromise

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lol with a remark like that i will gladly enter into discussion on most subjects . what i will not reply to is a taunt !
Proverbs 26:4 New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Lest you also be like him.
TAUNT:1a remark made in order to anger, wound, or provoke someone.
2 provoke or challenge (someone) with insulting remarks

I did not insult you, unless you find pointing out that you usually have a lot more to say upon matters , is?
 

epostle

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No, Christ was a descendant of Eve and therefore part of her seed. And there was enminty the moment this was spoken for their eyes were opened and mankind has been warring with Satan ever since. This is not rocket science and NO IT IS NOT talking about Mary.
1.) We agree that Christ is a descendant of Eve. Do you mean that
A) the enmity was between the man & the woman, or
B) does it mean enmity between the woman and Christ?
C) enmity between you (Serpent) and woman (Eve)??
First, Genesis 3:15 is referring to Eve, not Mary.
Well, if you insist on being so LITERAL about it, doesn't "Eve" mean "mother of all the living"? No....wait...we have already established that Christ is the seed of the woman, and logically ALL those who are spiritually alive in Christ must be the offspring of the Woman in Revelation 12:17. Would you agree that ALL those who are alive in Christ are not somebody else's offspring? Is it possible or plausible, that the mere "mother of all the living ' might refer ALL to humanity BEFORE Christ? If that's the case, then who is the woman in Revelation 12? Where does the Bible say each and every word can only have one meaning, or 2 or even 3??? The "he/she/him/her who crushes the serpents head" argument is irrelevant at this point. A rule in hermeneutics is to find similar verses that are if the same nature for a clearer exegesis. There are only two verses in the whole Bible that contain q woman and a serpent in the same verse. Revelation 12:17 and Genesis 3:15.

It's interesting to note that the Apostles Creed contains only two first person pronoun names (not counting Christ):
Pontius Pilate and the Virgin Mary.

Let's recap the questions:

1) We agree that Christ is a descendant of Eve. Do you mean that

A) the enmity was between the man & the woman, or
B) does it mean enmity between the woman and Christ?
C) enmity between you (Serpent) and woman (Eve)??

2) Would you agree that ALL those who are alive in Christ are not somebody else's offspring?

3) Is it possible or plausible, that the mere "mother of all the living ' might refer ALL to humanity BEFORE Christ?
4) If that's the case, then who is the woman in Revelation 12:17?

5) Where does the Bible say each and every word can only have one meaning???

I want to write a challenge exam with Liberty University for Masters Credits, but I am not about to pay $135. for it.
Do you have any exams on file that you could send me?


mary1.png


aa-wings.jpg

 

Taken

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No, they called the DISCIPLES Christians. These were men who were already converted, not just merely people following Jesus' teachings. (Acts 11:26)


If you don't explain what a Christian is and what a Christian is not you are lying to them if you say they are Christian.

Perhaps this needs a thread of its own.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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for once you spoke a truth , except Mary was Sinless ...false wrong no scripture to prove it

Correct.
Mary was not sinless. Humans are not sinless.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

CovenantPromise

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1.) We agree that Christ is a descendant of Eve. Do you mean that
A) the enmity was between the man & the woman, or
B) does it mean enmity between the woman and Christ?
C) enmity between you (Serpent) and woman (Eve)??
Well, if you insist on being so LITERAL about it, doesn't "Eve" mean "mother of all the living"? No....wait...we have already established that Christ is the seed of the woman, and logically ALL those who are spiritually alive in Christ must be the offspring of the Woman in Revelation 12:17. Would you agree that ALL those who are alive in Christ are not somebody else's offspring? Is it possible or plausible, that the mere "mother of all the living ' might refer ALL to humanity BEFORE Christ? If that's the case, then who is the woman in Revelation 12? Where does the Bible say each and every word can only have one meaning, or 2 or even 3??? The "he/she/him/her who crushes the serpents head" argument is irrelevant at this point. A rule in hermeneutics is to find similar verses that are if the same nature for a clearer exegesis. There are only two verses in the whole Bible that contain q woman and a serpent in the same verse. Revelation 12:17 and Genesis 3:15.

It's interesting to note that the Apostles Creed contains only two first person pronoun names (not counting Christ):
Pontius Pilate and the Virgin Mary.

Let's recap the questions:

1) We agree that Christ is a descendant of Eve. Do you mean that

A) the enmity was between the man & the woman, or
B) does it mean enmity between the woman and Christ?
C) enmity between you (Serpent) and woman (Eve)??

2) Would you agree that ALL those who are alive in Christ are not somebody else's offspring?

3) Is it possible or plausible, that the mere "mother of all the living ' might refer ALL to humanity BEFORE Christ?
4) If that's the case, then who is the woman in Revelation 12:17?

5) Where does the Bible say each and every word can only have one meaning???

I want to write a challenge exam with Liberty University for Masters Credits, but I am not about to pay $135. for it.
Do you have any exams on file that you could send me?


mary1.png


aa-wings.jpg

I would say those were some thought provoking examination questions, without any cost but gain!May God Bless and protect you and yours. ISRAEL-(May God prevail)!
 

CovenantPromise

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No. Israel is not the Sign of Immanuel, and is no virgin but Israel must become as the sign of Immanuel . The Christ rejecting Edom Jew tries to get Christians to believe it is Israel but it is not. God had to give the House of David the sign because it tried His patience.Christ had to come because Israel is not the Virgin . And did so by giving them the Sign of the Virgin. Rev.12 denotes her position and that position is always the same concerning Perfection.Israel must be made into that same purity and function. Clearly, Israel it is still being redeemed so it is impossible for it to be the sign of Rev.12. It first represents Christ Mother and Him. THEN the Bride made in her image and then the Brides presents in Israel. But not Israel as a nation.
 
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CovenantPromise

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Has anyone read the Book of Ezra or listened to it in audio book? After reading what I have posted in here, revisit that book if you have read it. If not please give it a read. "The TWO" who have not tasted death yet - Enoch and St. John the apostle of Jesus ,will, after their time to prophesy is complete. I believe as we are on the last king of the Vatican, and the "Man of Sin" who is to be revealed is already upon us, too are the Two Witnesses. The hidden ones will be emerging during a time of Sackcloth and ashes ( Kedar) for the nation of Israel and the world. And since it is the season of the NOON DAY SUN- Rev.12 as God's time peace has awakened us to, we are in the final season of the End of the Age= Time which sin (satan) is allotted to, which with all groaning and pain in its ending will herald in Eternity. Peace in Jesus Christ to you all!
 
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Taken

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Sola Scriptura is a man-made 16th century invention.

But, but, but....you preach man-made invention. You preach the Church has the authority to dictate Doctrine based on Implication!

Some people Believe Scripture INSPIRED By God...IS Sufficient;
without MAN-MADE-UP Doctrines.

Why would you find that Offensive and call it an Invention of men, because it wasn't invented...It was Realized.

2 Tim 3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

You almost sound Hypocritical and Jealous...since ALL things Christian...Catholics Have assumed the credit.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

BreadOfLife

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2Tim. 3 Verses 16 to 17
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy is pretty clear. Any one not speaking that, is not speaking the Oral tradition!

We read in Scripture that Jesus did MANY things that aren't written down because the world could not hold the books if they HAD been written (John 21:25).

Really ?And why do you not know what those things are? And how did you find out that? Did you read it? Oh , and would those things contradict what is written for you to know? Are you calling Christ a hypocrite? Are you saying that a different spirit wrote the scriptures and Christ worked in a different spirit, when He did the works not recorded ? Your point? you are still quoting from the scriptures alone aren't you? Hmm?
First of all - I'm NOT calling Christ or anybody else a hypocrite - so calm down.

Secondly - you have NOT shown me where Scripture states that Scripture alone is to be our SOLE Authority.
The Scriptures themselves state that although the Scriptures are Authoritative - Christ's Church is our final earthly Authority - NOT the Scriptures (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Thirdly - 2 Tim. 3:16-17 does NOT preach Sola Scriptura - it states clearly that the Scriptures are PROFITABLE for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction - which they absolutely ARE. However - this does NOT mean that they ans they alone are our SOLE Authority - otherwise, you have to toss out ALL of the verses about Church Authority above as well as 2 Thess 2:15 which puts Sacred Tradition ON PAR with Scripture.

Prove Sola Scripture from Scripture alone - then we can move on. Otherwise - simply ADMIT what Protestant scholars have already admitted to in the past:
"Scripture Alone" cannot be shown from Scripture alone . . .
 
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BreadOfLife

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But, but, but....you preach man-made invention. You preach the Church has the authority to dictate Doctrine based on Implication!

Some people Believe Scripture INSPIRED By God...IS Sufficient;
without MAN-MADE-UP Doctrines.

Why would you find that Offensive and call it an Invention of men, because it wasn't invented...It was Realized.

2 Tim 3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

You almost sound Hypocritical and Jealous...since ALL things Christian...Catholics Have assumed the credit.

Glory to God,
Taken
That's funny - GOD doesn't. Otherwise, He would have made sure it was written down in Scripture.
Instead - He places Sacred Tradition to be ON PAR with Scripture because it comes from HIM . . .

2 Thess 2:15

"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, either by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."

Luke 10:16
Whoever LISTENS to YOU LISTENS to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."
 

epostle

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Here is where you go wrong. A teacher and an Apostle are not the same thing.
They are the same thing in function, not the same thing in title.

I see discipleship. Not apostolic succession in the way the Catholic Church tries to make it.
I see succession, not mere discipleship the way you guys force it to say what it doesn't mean.
Also strawman. I am saying there are no more apostles. I never said there were not teachers/pastors.
There are no more Apostles (after 11+1+Paul), just bishops, who functioned as teachers/pastors. Your reformers abolished the pedigree of bishops, and you are stuck doing scriptural acrobatics trying to defend them.
Boy you really mess that up. It is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, to the Glory of God alone.
Agreed. It is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, to the Glory of God alone. The reformers got that part right, but "scripture alone and faith alone" are not in the Bible. Luther made that up because he was mentally ill and was angry at the Pope.
Art of Attack: Springtime for Luther and Germany!
No actually it isn't. The works are the evidence of the faith. Doesn't destroy faith alone (which is clearly taught in Scripture) at all.
"The works are the evidence of the faith". Chapter and verse please. You use faith "alone" in the same sense as "faith" in John 2:10. Us stupid Catholics use "faith" in the sense as Galatians 5:6, and 1 Corinthians 13. This is why we reject "faith alone" as a man made tradition.

James 2:17,26 – James clearly teaches that faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. Works are a cause, not just an effect, of our justification because good works achieve and increase our justification before God. Scripture never says anything about “saving faith.” Protestants cannot show us from the Scriptures that “works” qualify the “faith” into saving faith. Instead, here and elsewhere, the Scriptures teach that justification is achieved only when “faith and works” act together. Scripture puts no qualifier on faith. Scripture also never says that faith “leads to works.” Faith is faith and works are works (James 2:18). They are distinct (mind and action), and yet must act together in order to receive God’s unmerited gift of justification.
Again, "saving faith" is not in Scripture. There is no verse that says "saving faith" saves us by its own virtue. Paul teaches a lot about faith, but he never teaches faith alone.

Bishop and Apostle are not the same thing.
Agreed. As far as title is concerned. But their function is the same both/and overlapped, not "either/or" the way you obviously think.
And notice that doesn't mean always sinless.
And notice that doesn't mean always sinful either. It never says "Full of Grace with a little sin hiding somewhere." The LETTER says full of grace, the SPIRIT says "FULL OF GRACE" which is applied only to one person in all of Scripture. Eve, Adam, and even Satan were once full of grace before they fell. Being full of grace is the NORM for all of us, but your Calvinoid mentality says God created evil people just so he can throw them into hell.

You can apply grace to each and every individual Christian, but downplay the concept when it comes to the mother of Jesus. Next you have to re-invent the wheel with the lame "ALL have sinned" argument, which is easily refuted >5 different ways.
 
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Taken

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That's funny - GOD doesn't. Otherwise, He would have made sure it was written down in Scripture.

He did provide a WAY for ALL Scripture to be Written, FOR Jews Under the Law, and FOR Anyone NOT Under the Law.

Jews...Israel...Mosaic Law
EX 17
[14] And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book...
EX 34
[27] And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words:
Num 5
[23] And the priest shall write these curses in a book...

Instead - He places Sacred Tradition to be ON PAR with Scripture because it comes from HIM . . .

Israels' Sacred Traditions were within Mosaic Law, FOR the Tribes of Israel.

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, either by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."

Are YOU ISRAEL? Are YOU holding fast to Traditions IN Mosaic LAW, taught BY Jews TO Jews?

Don't YOU ACCUSE people of COMMITTING SIN, ACCORDING TO...Mosaic Law?

Luke 10:16
Whoever LISTENS to YOU LISTENS to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Whoever LISTENS TO WHOM?
Jewish Disciples, Apostles, Teachers?
Are YOU Jewish?
SPEAKING WHAT? The Pope is the Holy Father, or God is the Holy Father?

The POINT IS to Listen to they who SPEAK THE TRUTH....Not they who make-up words and claim it is the Truth...LEARN the Difference.

FOR ANYONE...Jew or Gentile...
WHO...
Has Converted IN Christ...


1) THE MOSAIC LAW HAS BEEN FULFILLED.
2) THE CURSE LAWS ARE MOOT.
3) THE TRADITIONS MOOT.
4) THE WORD OF GOD IS WRITTEN...IN THEIR HEART (not with INK on paper).

A church making up by-laws and traditions and pretending they are modeled after "fulfilled" Jewish Laws and Traditions...and preaching it is Biblical...is a hoax.

A great majority of Scripture...
Never Applied to a Gentile.

A Greater portion of Scripture DOES NOT Apply to a person Converted IN Christ.


You always have a Losing Argument...
Because:
You pick Favorable things IN Scripture and claim it APPLIES to YOU (a Catholic)
And:
You pick Unfavorable things IN Scripture and claim it APPLIES to people who ARE NOT Catholic.
And:
Then pat yourself on the back and fluff your feathers proclaiming YOU have WON...
(LOL).

And the Fact IS:
You are not qualified in knowledge or understanding to know what does or does not Apply to YOU, let alone ANYONE else.


You are not mysterious or complicated to see how you operate.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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1.) We agree that Christ is a descendant of Eve.

No.
For the TRUTH, one must STAY in the ORDER and WAY of when and how things Were Revealed.

Jesus Did not come to Earth As Christ, (who is the Power of God.)
Jesus came to Earth As the WORD of God
(In the likeness of human Jewish men).
Jesus took upon Himself the Seed of Abraham.
Mary was a descendant of Abraham.
The Word of God was sent to Marys womb.
The Word of God was revealed having come forth from Mary's womb, (nine months later, according to the Law of nature).
The Word of God, was said to be CALLED, JESUS, the Son of God.
According to Civil (mans Law), Jesus IS the Lawful son of Mary.

When Jesus began His Ministry, IS WHEN, Christ...the POWER of God, (God Himself) Began Being Revealed In Jesus.

Remember God was IN Heaven, when JESUS was Sent to Earth.

Bit by bit, the Power of God, was SENT DOWN to Jesus, and men were in AWE, proclaiming JESUS was a man of God....Until FINALLY men realized, JESUS IS the CHRIST...God in the Flesh likeness of "JEWISH" men.

No Mary did not give birth to God.
Mary gave Birth to a son, Whom God had placed IN HER WOMB, and SAID:
Call Him Jesus.
Call Him the Son of God.
Expect great things of Him.

God Has No mother, No father.
Gods "offspring" ARE:
1) His Word that came forth out from God.
"Declared" to Be His Son.
2) His Created humans that trust to Believe IN Him, "Called" His sons by adoption.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Marymog

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But our works do not save us.
I know...I agree and never said that....Faith without works is dead....Just like Scripture says and I agree with.

Faith (belief), baptism, grace and works save us....Just like Scripture says, just like I have been saying.

Mary