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brakelite

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This thread is now way beyond any value for helping to understand the end times.

You did ask me, ReChoired, about Ellen Whites books.
I do have 'Patriarchs and Prophets' dated 1893 in my library. Also 'The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan', no date, but it is just a few years later.
I checked my annotations in the G.C., for where she, E.W., describes the Great Disappointment of 1844. Firstly she makes the unscriptural assumption that the 2300 evenings and mornings are years. E.W. says the 2300 'days - years' are part of the seventy weeks. page 351
Then E.W. goes on at length to make out that it was the Sanctuary in heaven that was cleansed in 1844. page 413+

All quite wrong and just leads to confusion about God's plans for the soon to commence end prophesied times events.
It is very easy to read what amounts to a very brief overview of the topic then say...that's wrong...I suggest you do what I suggested to others, to do your due diligence and find out precisely why Adventists believe the way they do. Then after discovering why, you may progress to offering a counter argument as to why you disagree.
Saying EW is wrong based on misinformed suppositions does nothing to refute our position, and doors nothing to improve your own understanding.
By the way, having such old editions of those books is very cool.
Did you look at that 1844 made simple.org?
 

ReChoired

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This thread is now way beyond any value for helping to understand the end times.
I disagree, but if you do not any longer desire to participate herein, that is of course up to you. I would rather have discussed with you, rather than the others.

You did ask me, ReChoired, about Ellen Whites books.
Yes, indeed. Thank you for replying about it.

I do have 'Patriarchs and Prophets' dated 1893 in my library. Also 'The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan', no date, but it is just a few years later.
Did you fully read both, or no? Just asking.

I checked my annotations in the G.C., for where she, E.W., describes the Great Disappointment of 1844. Firstly she makes the unscriptural assumption that the 2300 evenings and mornings are years. E.W. says the 2300 'days - years' are part of the seventy weeks. page 351
Why do you say it is an 'unscriptural assumption"? Others also teach the same, non-Seventh-day Adventists. Would you like to see their studies?

Then E.W. goes on at length to make out that it was the Sanctuary in heaven that was cleansed in 1844. page 413+
Do you believe that there is such a thing as a real Sanctuary in the 3rd Heaven, where God the Father dwells, and that Jesus Christ ascended to, to minister therein?

All quite wrong and just leads to confusion about God's plans for the soon to commence end prophesied times events.
Well, you say it is "wrong", but I haven't seen any evidence contrary, and every scripture which does teach it, so, perhaps we can start with the sanctuary in Heaven?
 
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Davy

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More accusation, no evidence. I pray those who do read the material presented, study it out for themselves, so that they are not deceived. I pray they acknowledge all that which is true, and reject all that which is false.

It's not all that hard to tell when you're pushing a falsehood, like wrongly assigning the Daniel 9:27 verse as applying to Christ.
 

Davy

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Yes. That is why I referred to Rome, not Alexander III the Great as fulfilling it (like you kept continually saying we (keraz, brakelite and myself) said, to then deny it). That is what I have been telling you the whole time, and yet you keep going on and on about Alexander III the great, when that was never the contention, at all.

Back to that BS again I see, where you didn't include all my quote about Alexander and made up a lie about it, hoping others would confirm it (i.e., side with you). Fact is, the Daniel 8:9-13 Scripture isn't about Alexander The Great. It's about the final Antichrist still yet to come at the end of this world. And I already gave you the other Scripture evidence for that in Dan.9, and Dan.11, and Matt.24. It wasn't Rome that did that.
 

ReChoired

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It's not all that hard to tell when you're pushing a falsehood, like wrongly assigning the Daniel 9:27 verse as applying to Christ.
Already addressed at the beginning, and nothing has been seen which shows it to be in error:

Dan 9:26 KJB - And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Dan 9:26 HOT - ואחרי השׁבעים שׁשׁים ושׁנים יכרת משׁיח ואין לו והעיר והקדשׁ ישׁחית עם נגיד הבא וקצו בשׁטף ועד קץ מלחמה נחרצת שׁממות׃

Dan 9:26 HOT Str#/wRMAC - ואחריH310 השׁבעיםH7620 שׁשׁיםH8346 ושׁניםH8147 יכרתH3772 משׁיחH4899 ואיןH369 לו והעירH5892 והקדשׁH6944 ישׁחיתH7843 עםH5971 נגידH5057 הבאH935 וקצוH7093 בשׁטףH7858 ועדH5704 קץH7093 מלחמהH4421 נחרצתH2782

Dan 9:26 HOT translit. - w'achárëy haSHävuiym shiSHiym ûsh'nayim yiKärët mäshiyªch w'ëyn lô w'häiyr w'haQodesh yash'chiyt am nägiyd haBä w'qiTZô vaSHe†ef w'ad qëtz mil'chämäh nechéretzet shomëmôt

Even if one does not read Hebrew (which is unnecessary), but simply the English, carefully, and with the bible in mind in other places, which shed light upon these events, we can know for certain, that the "prince that shall come" was indeed Jesus Christ. How can we know from the English (KJB)?

[1] in Daniel 9:25, Jesus is called "Messiah the Prince" (משׁיח נגיד;
משׁיחH4899 נגידH5057; mäshiyªch nägiyd)

[2] in Daniel 9:26a, Jesus is again called "Messiah" (משׁיח; משׁיחH4899; mäshiyªch) and thus Daniel 9:26 is simply enlarging upon Daniel 9:25's "Messiah (a.) the Prince (b.)", when vs 26 says, "Messiah (a.) ... the prince (b.) that shall come ..."; in other words "the ruler" that was prophesied to be sent by God to rule all (Isaiah 9:6,7; Micah 5:2; Matthew 2:6).

[3] the word "prince" (נגיד ; נגידH5057; nägiyd) is only used for Jesus Christ the Messiah in all of Daniel, see Daniel 9:25,26, 11:22 ("prince of the covenant") as the anointed ruler thereof. Other examples in scripture of this are seen in the anointed kings of Israel (see 1 Samuel 25:30; 2 Samuel 6:21, 7:8; 1 Kings 1:35, 14:7, 16:2; 1 Chronicles 5:2, 11:2, 17:7, 28:4, 29:22; 2 Chronicles 6:5, 11:22), the anointed rulers of the priests (1 Chronicles 9:11,20, 12:27; 2 Chronicles 31:12,13, 35:8; Jeremiah 20:1; Nehemiah 11:11; or those associated, 1 Chronicles 26:24, 27:4), the leaders of the tribes of Israel (1 Chronicles 27:16), generals/captains over others (1 Chronicles 13:1; 2 Chronicles 11:11; Psalms 76:12), or as one like Job (Job 31:37). (There are a few rare instances in scripture where the word can be used in a general sense for any ruler or captain over others (Job 29:10), even an opposing ruler/s, captains (see 2 Chronicles 23:21; Ezekiel 28:2), but the context is always clear in these instances; and it can mean a few other things in rare instances (Proverbs 8:6)).

[4] Gabriel and Daniel (Daniel 10:20), under guidance of the Holy Ghost, when referring to a foreign power and its leadership thereof, as a 'prince' (such as in the case of Grecia), another word is used instead, which is (שׂר ;שׂר H8269; sar; which means 'ruler'), and thus the word, "prince" (נגיד ; נגידH5057; nägiyd)" in Daniel 9, in its own context and surrounding, is not a reference to the Roman ruler (Caesar) in Daniel 9, though the word "sar" can be applied.

[5] the entire context of Daniel 9 is the Messiah and His people,

[a.] Daniel 9:24a, "thy (Daniel's) people", the Israelites
[b.] Daniel 9:24b, "thy (Daniel's) holy city, earthly Jerusalem
[c.] Daniel 9:24c,d,e,f,g,h - dealing with the sins of the professed people of God and the ministration of the Great High Priest/Jesus and his work on earth and in Heaven.
[d.] Daniel 9:25a, "the commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem" (found in Ezra 6:14, 7:1-28)
[e.] Daniel 9:25b, "Messiah the Prince" - Jesus Christ
[f.] Daniel 9:26a, "Messiah" - Jesus Christ
[g.] Daniel 9:26b, "the people of the prince" - Israelites
[h.] Daniel 9:26b, "of the prince that shall come" - Jesus, being ruler over "the people" sent of God, that was to "come"
[i.] Daniel 9:26c, "the city and the sanctuary" - earthly Jerusalem
[j.] Daniel 9:27a, "And he ..." - Jesus (Pronoun pointing back to a Noun, context, Messiah the Prince, Messiah ... the prince that shall come)
[k.] Daniel 9:27b "confirm the covenant with many for one week" - Jesus confirms the New Covenant with the Apostles (Hebrews 2:3) for the first half of the week (3 1/2 years unto AD 31, His death) and then confirms with the rest of the people through His Apostles, for 3 1/2 more years, unto the stoning of Stephen (AD 34) and the rejection of it by the Sanhedrin, as they had done to Jesus.
[l.] Daniel 9:27c, "he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease" - Jesus (Pronoun pointing back to the Noun, Messiah the Prince), did this by His death, and thus there are no more sacrifices for sins as Hebrews 10:26, etc, explains.
[m.] Daniel 9:27d, "he shall make it (earthly sanctuary) desolate" - Jesus (Pronoun pointing back to a Noun) leaves and does not return to earthly Jerusalem, neither to the earthly temple ever again, see Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35.​

[6]
there are previous examples given to us in scripture, and Daniel himself experienced one of them.

[a.] In the first destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple by Babylon and King Nebuchadnezzar, this very King is used by God to punish rebellious Israel, because they (the people) had rejected God, and so God withdrew, and allowed the city/temple to be destroyed. What brought the destruction? Israel's sins. Nebuchadnezzar is even called by God, "my servant" (Jeremiah 25:9).

[b.] In the events of Moses and the Israelites attempting to cross over into the promised land. Balak and Balaam came along, and could do nothing to affect them, that is until the people sinned, and so God withdrew His protection, and allowed destruction to come.​

There are numerous examples of this in scripture, see the book of Judges, etc.

Therefore, the same events repeated, as per Ecclesiastes 1:9, 3:15; in that when "the people" (of God) rejected the "Messiah the Prince", the "Messiah ... the prince that shall come" (as promised by God), they actually destroyed their own city and temple, because they rejected the protection God offered in Christ Jesus. When Jesus said, "Your house is left unto you desolate", it was in exact fulfillment of Daniel as was the statement of Jesus in reference to the destruction (Matthew 23:36) that would be brought about by such rejection and refusal to repent of sin and accept Him, their Messiah, their rightful Prince.

Did the Roman armies actually destroy Jerusalem? Only in after effect (as the Babylonians), for if the Jewish leadership had accepted the Messiah their prince, no such destruction could have come, for God would have dwelt in it, and its sanctuary.

The entire context of Daniel 9, is about God's people, sin, deliverance and the Messiah.

Who destroyed the city? God's own professed people by their neglect and refusal. Even as the human city/temple may so be destroyed:

1Co_3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Mat_5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.​
 
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Davy

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It wasn't started by orthodox Jews, and there is no vast movement. It is an isolated, obscure group with a website, and nothing more. It is the same singular source that all who believe like you cite. It is the only thing you can cite, and you refuse to do what I suggested you do. Call the Antiquities dept, and political offices in Jerusalem itself, and ask them if any such plans exist. All of it has been shown to be error by others, including the DNA stuff.

Who was it that said, "big things have small beginnings".

There are more orthodox Jews in the world that support the rebuilding of the temple than you think. Just the fact there are more political debates over building the temple shows the amount of interest is not really all that small afterall.

Push to rebuild Jerusalem Temple has earth-shaking implications - WND

One third of Israelis believe the temple should be rebuilt:

We’re Ready to Rebuild the Temple

Thus your push-off of the matter is laughable at best.
 

Davy

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The "great red dragon" is a symbol for Pagan Rome....

That's funny! Think I'll stick with who God's Word says the dragon is...

Rev 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

KJV
 

ReChoired

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Who was it that said, "big things have small beginnings".

There are more orthodox Jews in the world that support the rebuilding of the temple than you think. Just the fact there are more political debates over building the temple shows the amount of interest is not really all that small afterall.

Push to rebuild Jerusalem Temple has earth-shaking implications - WND

One third of Israelis believe the temple should be rebuilt:

We’re Ready to Rebuild the Temple

Thus your push-off of the matter is laughable at best.
No, its the same sources, as both Gershon and Yisrael have direct ties to each other - How The 6 Day War Birthed The Temple Mount Movement Their material, is simply website propaganda, based upon an 'angelic' experience. Call the Antiquities office, call the political offices in Jerusalem, Jordan, etc. Gershon's 'movement' isn't even seen as Orthodox - "... Over time, Gershon Salomon developed a more religiously oriented apocalyptic and messianic platform, which, however, was distinctly non-Orthodox in character. ..." - Temple Mount and Eretz Yisrael Faithful Movement - Wikipedia

It's the same source. Like I said.
 

ReChoired

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That's funny! Think I'll stick with who God's Word says the dragon is...

Rev 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

KJV
What is funny is that you ellipsed the remainder of what I stated about the great red dragon from scripture, and ignored the study provided, not addressing it at all.
 

Bobby Jo

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... All quite wrong and just leads to confusion about God's plans for the soon to commence end prophesied times events.

I agree with Keraz on this point! But more to the issue, -- what are GOD's plans and what are the fulfillments in these end times? Certainly we can see what they're NOT, but that simply leaves us absent GUIDANCE for these days. We NEED to KNOW what Scripture is attempting to convey to us, otherwise what good are all those Books, Chapters, and Verses. -- They're FOR US. We MUST RECEIVE THEM.


Or we can be DEAF, DUMB, and BLIND,
Bobby Jo
 
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Bobby Jo

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... [5] the entire context of Daniel 9 is the Messiah ...

Small "m", messiah. -- NOT capital "M".

Lev. 4:3 if it is the anointed [mashiyach, H4899] priest who sins, thus bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer for the sin which he has committed a young bull without blemish to the Lord for a sin offering.

I don't think Jesus sinned, but what, -- HE needs to have "sin offering" available?


You have no clue,
Bobby Jo
 

Keraz

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what are GOD's plans and what are the fulfillments in these end times? Certainly we can see what they're NOT, but that simply leaves us absent GUIDANCE for these days. We NEED to KNOW what Scripture is attempting to convey to us, otherwise what good are all those Books, Chapters, and Verses. -- They're FOR US. We MUST RECEIVE THEM.
So, BJ; are you willing to put aside the beliefs that are prevalent among Christians and clear your mind of all the teachings that don't have total Biblical support?
Amos 8:11-13 says that people will search for the truth, but will not find it. Daniel 12:4-9
Also Daniel 12:10b says only a few will understand the prophecies.

Therefore, it seems that most will experience the end times events, quite unprepared and not knowing what will happen next. The fact that you and others are here, shows you at least try to grasp what God has planned for our future.
But I reiterate; if you hold to any false teachings, any wrong doctrines, then: scripture plainly says that you will be locked into them and made unable to change those unbiblical beliefs. Isaiah 29:9-12, Jeremiah 6:10, 1 Corinthians 3:18-20

The reason for this is; God wants people to be tested, to be surprised and shocked on the terrible Day that He sends His fiery wrath upon the earth. It will be our great test of faith and will prove whether we trust in His protection, or not.
It will show if we are worthy, 1 Corinthians 3:12-15, to go and be citizens of the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16
 

Keraz

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There are more orthodox Jews in the world that support the rebuilding of the temple than you think. Just the fact there are more political debates over building the temple shows the amount of interest is not really all that small afterall.
No way will the Jewish people of the State of Israel, build a new Temple. Many reasons they can't, but the Bible doesn't say it will be a Jewish Temple.
Zechariah 6:15 says it will be men from far away.
Haggai 2:6-9 says it will be built after the Lord has shaken all the nations.
Ezekiel 43:9-12 says it will be after the Israelites [Christian peoples, not Israelis] have put away their idols and renounce all their sins.

What is definate, is that there WILL be a new Temple; 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Revelation 11:1 prove it.
The Jews have had 72 years to do it; what has held them back? Pretty obvious isn't it?
God doesn't want a Jesus rejecting people to build His holy place on earth.
 
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Keraz

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I disagree, but if you do not any longer desire to participate herein, that is of course up to you. I would rather have discussed with you, rather than the others.
Yes, you are one who seriously studies the Bible, but it does seem you have an agenda to promote SDA teachings.
I am not a highly educated person; no learning of any foreign languages and I keep my articles on Bible prophecy short and simple.
Did you fully read both, or no? Just asking.
I read all my 1200+ books. Many are old works of history and travel in the holy Land.
A book I have just completed is 'Krakatoa' by Simon Winchester. An interesting story of the eruption of Krakatoa in 1883, more that I ever needed to know about it, but one fact was enlightening; the sound of that explosion was heard around the world.
This will happen again, when the Lord sends His fiery wrath. Jeremiah 25:30-31, Isaiah 29:6, 2 Peter 3:10
Well, you say it is "wrong", but I haven't seen any evidence contrary, and every scripture which does teach it, so, perhaps we can start with the sanctuary in Heaven?
I do say EW was wrong, when she makes 2300 evenings and mornings, [that refer to the 2 daily sacrifices] into years.
The only place in the Bible which says to convert days into years, is Ezekiel 4:4-6
Daniel 8 doesn't say that.

Re the Sanctuary in heaven, Revelation 12:7-9 tells us when that will be cleansed of Satan and his angels. At the mid point of the final seven years of this Church age. Yet to happen.
 
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Bobby Jo

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So, BJ ...

The question which @ReChoired REFUSED to answer, is: What is the significance of the UNUSUAL INCONCISE Masculine Gender text for the word "weeks" versus the USUAL CONCISE Feminine Gender text?

His "answer" was to disregard what SCRIPTURE SAYS, in favor of what is CONVENIENT.

So using the analogy of a "car" (versus "vehicle"), which is a CONCISE (Feminine) term, we can recognize that there are 14 uses of this term throughout Scripture. But there are 6 uses of what would be an INCONCISE "vehicle" (Masculine) diction found ONLY in the 9th Chapter of Daniel.

The problem is, do you drive a CAR, -- or a BICYCLE, MOTORCYCLE, TRUCK, BUS, etc.? If you drive a "TRUCK", then it isn't a "CAR", -- it's a vehicle. And there IS A DIFFERENCE. Maybe you drive BOTH. Thus you have TWO VEHICLES, one's a CAR and the other's a TRUCK.

And THAT's EXACTLY what Daniel is attempting to depict. He's citing the 9:2 single "year" duration; and the 9:27 seven-year "week" duration, under one general term -- the INCONCISE Masculine Gender "week".


Now, are you ready to study SCRIPTURE or do you want to defend doctrines?!?
Bobby Jo
 

Keraz

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Now, are you ready to study SCRIPTURE or do you want to defend doctrines?!?
I am and I have, intensively studied the Bible prophesies for the last 10 years.
From what I see of your posts, you are very confused about what will happen. Thinking we are in the Millennium, shows your serous lack of understanding.

People here have had about enough of your confrontational and scathing attitude. I will again request the Moderators of this forum to deal with your rude and unacceptable posts.
 

Bobby Jo

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I am and I have, intensively studied the Bible prophesies for the last 10 years. ...

It's not how long you've studied, it's how well you've studied. And you haven't studied well enough to perceive even the most fundamental basics. Perhaps you could use some help from ME! :)

Bobby Jo
 

ReChoired

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Small "m", messiah. -- NOT capital "M".

Lev. 4:3 if it is the anointed [mashiyach, H4899] priest who sins, thus bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer for the sin which he has committed a young bull without blemish to the Lord for a sin offering.

I don't think Jesus sinned, but what, -- HE needs to have "sin offering" available?


You have no clue,
Bobby Jo
You cannot be serious? (though I think you are) Do you know how the mss are written in their original languages?

However, even as a source which others referred to, Josephus, states:

"... After the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, orthodox rabbinical tradition treated this event as the end of Daniel's seventy weeks (19). The views of the Jewish historian Josephus are of particular interest. During the assault on Jerusalem, he served as a Roman spokesman urging the people of the city to surrender. In his Wars of the Jews, which furnishes a full account of the struggle from his perspective on the Roman side, he sees the miseries of the city as the fulfillment of an ancient oracle.

For they [the prophets] foretold that this city [Jerusalem] should be then taken when somebody shall begin the slaughter of his own countrymen (20).

Evidently, he is thinking of Daniel's prediction that the Messiah would be cut off, for elsewhere he remembers that in consequence of violence springing up, the city would be taken and the sanctuary burned.

For there was a certain ancient oracle of those men [the prophets], that the city should then be taken and the sanctuary burnt, by right of war, when a sedition should invade the Jews, and their own hand should pollute the Temple of God (21).

In his later work Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus named Daniel as the source of this oracle.

In the very same manner Daniel also wrote concerning the Roman government, and that our country should be made desolate by them (22). ..." - Link

Even from a scriptural standpoint, Jesus refers to the prophecy of Daniel as referring to Himself in Matthew 24; Mark 13 and Luke 21. Yet, notice the question of the disciples and of Jesus:

Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
The prophecy has dual fulfillment (natural and spiritual, type and antitype, which is why there are "abominations" and "desolations", and Daniel 11:31 refers to Papal Rome). The first fulfillment (Matthew 24) was Rome, see Luke 21:20, and tie "stand in the holy place" with Nehemiah and Amos, for the space around Jerusalem was considered the 'holy place', in which the Roman armies set their idolatrous standards when surrounding the city to besiege it. The last fulfillment is by Papal Rome, setting up its standards and surrounding God's people spiritually speaking (and look around, the final sign almost here).
 

ReChoired

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The question which @ReChoired REFUSED to answer, is: What is the significance of the UNUSUAL INCONCISE Masculine Gender text for the word "weeks" versus the USUAL CONCISE Feminine Gender text?...
The statement that I "REFUSED to answer", is simply untrue, and thus I distinctly cited Albert Barnes who addressed it, as others also did as even Keil and Kliefoth mention among their own peers in their own commentary (though they simply dismiss such), and I also gave you specific texts on it, which you did not reply specifically to (Genesis, Matthew):

You are confused, as I already addressed Keil, etc.

Brown's Drivers and Briggs Lexicon, "... Properly passive participle of H7650 as a denominative of H7651; [exactly as TWOT says] literally sevened, that is, a week (specifically of years):—seven, week. ..." - Strong's Number 7620 Hebrew Dictionary of the Old Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com

Albert Barnes, noted commentator, more than Keil or Kliefoth, states:

"... “The form which is used here,” says he, “which is a regular masculine plural, is no doubt purposely chosen to designate the plural of seven; and with great propriety here, inasmuch as there are many sevens which are to be joined together in one common sum. Daniel had been meditating on the close of the seventy “years” of Hebrew exile, and the angel now discloses to him a new period of “seventy times seven,” in which still more important events are to take place. Seventy sevens, or (to use the Greek phraseology), “seventy heptades,” are determined upon thy people.

Heptades of what? Of days, or of years? No one can doubt what the answer is. Daniel had been making diligent search respecting the seventy “years;” and, in such a connection, nothing but seventy heptades of years could be reasonably supposed to be meant by the angel.” The inquiry about the “gender” of the word, of which so much has been said (Hengstenberg, “Chris.” ii. 297), does not seem to be very important, since the same result is reached whether it be rendered “seventy sevens,” or “seventy weeks.” In the former case, as proposed by Prof. Stuart, it means seventy sevens of “years,” or 490 years; in the other, seventy “weeks” of years; that is, as a “week of years” is seven years, seventy such weeks, or as before, 490 years. The usual and proper meaning of the word used here, however - שׁבוּע shâbûa‛a is a “seven,” ἐβδομάς hebdomas, i. e., a week. - Gesenius, “Lexicon” From the “examples” where the word occurs it would seem that the masculine or the feminine forms were used indiscriminately. ..."
Joseph Benson, another noted commentator still used to this day:

"... Seventy weeks, &c. — Weeks not of days, but of years, or, seventy times seven years, that is, four hundred and ninety years, each day being accounted a year according to the prophetic way of reckoning, (see note on Dan_7:25,) a way often used in Scripture, especially in reckoning the years of jubilee, which correspond with these numbers in Daniel: see Lev_25:8. See also Gen_29:27, where, to fulfil her week, is explained by performing another seven years’ service for Rachel; and Num_14:34, where we read, that according to the number of the days which the spies employed in searching out the land of Canaan, even forty days, the Israelites were condemned to bear their iniquities, even forty years. Thus God says likewise to Ezekiel, contemporary with Daniel, I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days three hundred and ninety days. I have appointed thee EACH DAY FOR A YEAR. ..."
Genevan Bible translators:

"... (p) He alludes to Jeremiah's prophecy, who prophesied that their captivity would be seventy years: but now God's mercy would exceed his judgment seven times as much, which would be 490 years, even until the coming of Christ, and so then it would continue forever. ..."
Adam Clarke:

"... Seventy weeks are determined - The Jews had Sabbatic years, Lev_25:8, by which their years were divided into weeks of years, as in this important prophecy, each week containing seven years. The seventy weeks therefore here spoken of amount to four hundred and ninety years. ..."
John Gill:

"... and this space of "seventy" weeks is not to be understood of weeks of days; which is too short a time for the fulfilment of so many events as are mentioned; nor were they fulfilled within such a space of time; but of weeks of years, and make up four hundred and ninety years; within which time, beginning from a date after mentioned, all the things prophesied of were accomplished; and this way of reckoning of years by days is not unusual in the sacred writings; see Gen_29:27. The verb used is singular, and, joined with the noun plural, shows that every week was cut out and appointed for some event or another; and the word, as it signifies "to cut", aptly expresses the division, or section of these weeks into distinct periods, as seven, sixty two, and one. ..."
John Wesley:

"... Seventy weeks - These weeks are weeks of days, and these days are so many years. ..."​

and many, many others, as I can still cite.

It is also tempered by the following divisions of the 70 7's or weeks, by the 7, 62 and 1 'weeks'. Have you considered their gender and form, as they are all a part of the whole 70 7's itself?
 

Bobby Jo

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... Do you know how the mss are written in their original languages?
... and Daniel 11:31 refers to Papal Rome). ...

Yep, and the LIARS have capitalized what THEY thought should be "capitalized", BECAUSE THEY HAD A "JESUS AGENDA".

And your "Papal Rome" is foolishness on it's face. The fact is, you can't get through the identification of Darius, and the three more and fourth in 11:1-2, but you can "arrive" to 11:31? -- Balderdash.

Dan. 11:1 And as for me, in the first year of Darius the Mede, I stood up to confirm and strengthen him. 2 “And now I will show you the truth. Behold, three more kings shall arise in Persia; and a fourth shall be far richer than all of them; and when he has become strong through his riches, he shall stir up all against the kingdom of Greece.

Give me concrete HISTORICAL EVIDENCE of Darius the Mede in the Medo/Persian Empire (not some supposition of "Gobryas"), and also identify the "three more" and the "fourth".


And I'm not holding my breath,
Bobby Jo
 
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