The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

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Taken

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No, but Baptism IS. .
The parents make a Covenant with God to raise the child in the faith –

JUST
like the Jews did when they circumcised their 8-day-old boys when they entered the Covenant with God. [/QUOTE]

So you are FOLLOWING OT LAW...Just like the Jews? Why?

Baptism is the fulfillment of OT type that was Circumcision.

Baptism is the fulfillment of OT type Circumcision?
What does OT "type" circumcision have to do with the NEW Covenant?
And WHAT Baptism? WATER, that you say is when YOU received the Holy Spirit?

Paul refers to it as “circumcision of the heart” and the “circumcision of Christ” (Romans 2:29, Col. 2:12-17) to describe the reality of circumcision being a spiritually inward act, not merely an outward sign.

Uh huh...circumcision of the heart...
THAT was FORETOLD in: EZEKIEL.
Uh huh....baptism of the Holy Spirit...
THAT was FORETOLD in: ISAIAH
And REVEALED, By John the Baptist, that Jesus IS the Baptizer of the Holy Spirit.

What does that ^ have to do with your parents agreeing to raise you according to the Catholic church doctrine and baptizing you with WATER? Nothing.

Jesus is the Baptizer of the Holy Spirit.
Nothing whatsoever says Jesus' Baptism is with WATER, performed by the a cleric.
Nor that parents agreeing with a WATER Baptism is HOW or WHY any person receives the HOLY Spirit Baptism.

You are stuck in a pickle.
You claimed you received the Holy Spirit without your agreement, confession of belief, or knowledge, when you were a Baby.

When in Fact, your Baby water baptism IS only a ceremonious act of the parents agreeing to raise their child in the Catholic church's doctrine....and has NOTHING to do with the baby receiving the Holy Spirit, as you claimed.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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The faith of Christ is implanted in human beings, and it is specifically what enables them to make a decision to repent, respond to the call, follow, etc.

"Implanted" ?
No. Knowledge is revealed BY and THROUGH Gods WORD. The Knowledge is received by a man, by the mans CHOICE to Hear or not, Listen or not, Believe or not, Follow along or not.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

BreadOfLife

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So you are FOLLOWING OT LAW...Just like the Jews? Why?

Baptism is the fulfillment of OT type Circumcision?
What does OT "type" circumcision have to do with the NEW Covenant?
And WHAT Baptism? WATER, that you say is when YOU received the Holy Spirit?

Uh huh...circumcision of the heart...
THAT was FORETOLD in: EZEKIEL.
Uh huh....baptism of the Holy Spirit...
THAT was FORETOLD in: ISAIAH
And REVEALED, By John the Baptist, that Jesus IS the Baptizer of the Holy Spirit.

What does that ^ have to do with your parents agreeing to raise you according to the Catholic church doctrine and baptizing you with WATER? Nothing.

Jesus is the Baptizer of the Holy Spirit.
Nothing whatsoever says Jesus' Baptism is with WATER, performed by the a cleric.
Nor that parents agreeing with a WATER Baptism is HOW or WHY any person receives the HOLY Spirit Baptism.

You are stuck in a pickle.
You claimed you received the Holy Spirit without your agreement, confession of belief, or knowledge, when you were a Baby.

When in Fact, your Baby water baptism IS only a ceremonious act of the parents agreeing to raise their child in the Catholic church's doctrine....and has NOTHING to do with the baby receiving the Holy Spirit, as you claimed.

Glory to God,
Taken
So it’s official – you can’t read.
I already covered this, Einstein . . .

Baptism is the New Covenant FULFILLMENT of Circumcision in the Old Covenant.
Whereas only boys were circumcised in the Old Covenant – there is neither male NOR female in Christ – so everybody gets Baptized in the New Covenant.

Just as the parents spoke for the 8-day-old boys in the Old covenant when they were circumcised – they ALSO speak for the babies who enter the NEW Covenant through Baptism.

NOT that difficult to figure out, Einstein . . .
 

Taken

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If you don’t understand that Baptism is the fulfillments of circumcision

No it isn't.
OT...God provided the terms of the Covenant.
Men agreed with the Covenant.
A man's agreement was NOT signed with ink on paper. Man's agreement was agreed to BY circumcision of his and sons foreskin.

An OT man that continued in keeping his part of the agreement...were Blessed, Given Gifts and Favored (of God) until their natural death...and then called saints.

NT...God provided the terms of a NEW Covenant.
How any person agrees with the Covenant;
Is:
They REPENT for having HAD Disbelief in God and /or In Jesus the Christ Messiah.
They also CONFESS their belief.
Thereafter the ARE Blessed, Given Gifts and favored.

The Holy Spirit is not the Fulfill-MENT of the circumcision.

The Circumcision is cutting away the OLD Heart and OLD natural truth/spirit of man.

The New Heart and New spirit of a man IS a Gift.

Ezek
[26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you

The Holy Spirit IS A GIFT, for A persons Agreement to Repent and Confess Belief.

Acts 2:38
[38] ...the gift of the Holy Ghost.

THE FULFILLMENT of Gods PROMISE in the NEW Covenant...IS the man WILL NEVER DIE!

John 11:[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shallnever die. Believest thou this?

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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So it’s official – you can’t read.
I already covered this, Einstein . . .

Baptism is the New Covenant FULFILLMENT of Circumcision in the Old Covenant.
Whereas only boys were circumcised in the Old Covenant – there is neither male NOR female in Christ – so everybody gets Baptized in the New Covenant.

Just as the parents spoke for the 8-day-old boys in the Old covenant when they were circumcised – they ALSO speak for the babies who enter the NEW Covenant through Baptism.

NOT that difficult to figure out, Einstein . . .

The FULFILLMENT of the Circumcision...IS WHEN the OLD heart is cut off and a NEW heart is given a man.

You repeatedly prove you do not comprehend what words mean or know the ORDER of Gods Way.

Hey let's cut off the old heart.....
Catholic version...hey that means baptism is fulfilled...
No.
Fact, it means the old heart has been circumcised...cut off.

Hey let's do what OT men did...
Catholic version...hey ya..Old Covenant for Jews...yeah, Gentiles let's do that...and pretend it applies to the New Covenant...
LOL

Baptism is fulfilled....after a man has received the gifts of a change and the man is prepared to THEN receive the Indwelling Holy Spirit.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

BreadOfLife

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No it isn't.
OT...God provided the terms of the Covenant.
Men agreed with the Covenant.
A man's agreement was NOT signed with ink on paper. Man's agreement was agreed to BY circumcision of his and sons foreskin.

An OT man that continued in keeping his part of the agreement...were Blessed, Given Gifts and Favored (of God) until their natural death...and then called saints.

NT...God provided the terms of a NEW Covenant.
How any person agrees with the Covenant;
Is:
They REPENT for having HAD Disbelief in God and /or In Jesus the Christ Messiah.
They also CONFESS their belief.
Thereafter the ARE Blessed, Given Gifts and favored.

The Holy Spirit is not the Fulfill-MENT of the circumcision.

The Circumcision is cutting away the OLD Heart and OLD natural truth/spirit of man.

The New Heart and New spirit of a man IS a Gift.

Ezek
[26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you

The Holy Spirit IS A GIFT, for A persons Agreement to Repent and Confess Belief.

Acts 2:38
[38] ...the gift of the Holy Ghost.

THE FULFILLMENT of Gods PROMISE in the NEW Covenant...IS the man WILL NEVER DIE!

John 11:[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shallnever die. Believest thou this?

Glory to God,
Taken
Great.

Uhhhhhh, then, perhaps YOU can show m where the Ethiopian Eunuch “repented” prior to being Baptized. This should be easy for you.

Chapter and Verse, please . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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The FULFILLMENT of the Circumcision...IS WHEN the OLD heart is cut off and a NEW heart is given a man.

You repeatedly prove you do not comprehend what words mean or know the ORDER of Gods Way.

Hey let's cut off the old heart.....
Catholic version...hey that means baptism is fulfilled...
No.
Fact, it means the old heart has been circumcised...cut off.

Hey let's do what OT men did...
Catholic version...hey ya..Old Covenant for Jews...yeah, Gentiles let's do that...and pretend it applies to the New Covenant...
LOL

Baptism is fulfilled....after a man has received the gifts of a change and the man is prepared to THEN receive the Indwelling Holy Spirit.

Glory to God,
Taken
This is precisely what Baptism in Christ does, sparky . . .

Ezek. 36:25-27
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I WILL GIVE YOU A NEW HEART AND PUT A NEW SPIRIT IN YOU; I WILL REMOVE FROM YOU YOUR HEART OF STONE AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Col. 2:9-12
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. YOUR WHOLE SELF RULED BY THE FLESH WAS PUT OFF WHEN YOU WERE CIRCUMCISED BY CHRIST, HAVING BEEN BURIED WITH HIM IN BAPTISM, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
 

BreadOfLife

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It is implied in Acts 8:36
Really??
Since when do anti-Catholics teach “implied” Scriptural teaching??

Mary’s Perpetual Virginity is STRONGLY implied by Luke 1:34.
Anti-Catholics reject this.

Mary’s sinlessless is STRONGLY implied in Luke 1:28.
Anti-Catholics reject this.

NOW you want me to accept a so-called implicit teaching about the Ethiopian Eunuch “repenting” -= when there is absolutely ZERO evidence of it??

Uhhhhh, you’ll have to do better than that, Davy . . .
 

reformed1689

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Taken

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This is precisely what Baptism in Christ does, sparky . . .

Ezek. 36:25-27
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I WILL GIVE YOU A NEW HEART AND PUT A NEW SPIRIT IN YOU; I WILL REMOVE FROM YOU YOUR HEART OF STONE AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Col. 2:9-12
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. YOUR WHOLE SELF RULED BY THE FLESH WAS PUT OFF WHEN YOU WERE CIRCUMCISED BY CHRIST, HAVING BEEN BURIED WITH HIM IN BAPTISM, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

LOL you are repeating what I already said about the Gifts given a man, who repented and confessed.
They have been all told you in order several times.

And it has nothing to do with WATER Baptism, and you have claimed.

Babies, Do Not receive the Holy Spirit because they are dipped or sprinkled with Water...as you claimed. LOL

Glory to God,
Taken
 

BreadOfLife

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That is only implied if you redefine words. We know Mary had other children.
Again, only implied if you redefine words.
Sooooooo, where is the "implied" evidence of the Ethiopian Eunuch's repentance, hmmmm?
Acts 8:36-38
As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.


Nice try . . .
 

CovenantPromise

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Faith is not a decision that can be made for you by someone else.[/QUOTES


Sure it is..... a tree is known by its fruit, even if that work is your child. People teach their children their values all the time.
Proverbs 22:5-
A Good Name
…5Thorns and snares lie on the path of the perverse; he who guards his soul stays far from them. 6Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it.

From a religious perspective , you sound like those who say a child is the sex THEY WANT TO IDENTIFY WITH not that which is God given and should be reared in. Faith is ALSO AN INHERITANCE . That is proven throughout the OT and is especially so in the NT in the fact that those of gentiles too have become part of the inheritance of the ONE TRUE FAITH. The BLESSING is passed down. Who would not raise their children in what is absolutely RIGHT? Only an anti- Christian would say faith is not an inheritance .

I have a garden, and grow tomatoes . When I see they are leaning too much one way I tie them up and pull them aright . I do the same thing with my children who I keep watered (IN the knowledge of what God wants) and nourish and feed them what is pleasing for their souls. It is not force it is conditioning and is good for them. They are our fruit after all. If I am an apple I do not expect briers and thistles .
 

BreadOfLife

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LOL you are repeating what I already said about the Gifts given a man, who repented and confessed.
They have been all told you in order several times.

And it has nothing to do with WATER Baptism, and you have claimed.

Babies, Do Not receive the Holy Spirit because they are dipped or sprinkled with Water...as you claimed. LOL

Glory to God,
Taken
According to BOTH passages of Scripture I presented - you're dead wrong.
Neithe passage mentions YOUR imposed prerequisite of age OR repentance.

STUDY your Bible . . .
 

reformed1689

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Sooooooo, where is the "implied" evidence of the Ethiopian Eunuch's repentance, hmmmm?
Acts 8:36-38
As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.


Nice try . . .
He had already been presented the Gospel. It was not until after this he asked to be baptized. This implies he had already accepted the Gospel.
 

CovenantPromise

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David Taylor said: Faith is not a decision that can be made for you by someone else.[/QUOTES

CP SAID:

Sure it is..... a tree is known by its fruit, even if that work is your child. People teach their children their values all the time.
Proverbs 22:5-
A Good Name
…5Thorns and snares lie on the path of the perverse; he who guards his soul stays far from them. 6Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it.

From a religious perspective , you sound like those who say a child is the sex THEY WANT TO IDENTIFY WITH not that which is God given and should be reared in. Faith is ALSO AN INHERITANCE . That is proven throughout the OT and is especially so in the NT in the fact that those of gentiles too have become part of the inheritance of the ONE TRUE FAITH. The BLESSING is passed down. Who would not raise their children in what is absolutely RIGHT? Only an anti- Christian would say faith is not an inheritance .

I have a garden, and grow tomatoes . When I see they are leaning too much one way I tie them up and pull them aright . I do the same thing with my children who I keep watered (IN the knowledge of what God wants) and nourish and feed them what is pleasing for their souls. It is not force it is conditioning and is good for them. They are our fruit after all. If I am an apple I do not expect briers and thistles .
 

BreadOfLife

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He had already been presented the Gospel. It was not until after this he asked to be baptized. This implies he had already accepted the Gospel.
No - YOU implied that he "repented".
Show me the verse that even implies this.

You have added to Sctipture what is not there . . .
 

Taken

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Great.

Uhhhhhh, then, perhaps YOU can show m where the Ethiopian Eunuch “repented” prior to being Baptized. This should be easy for you.

Chapter and Verse, please . . .

That's your deflective claim, you identify the chapter and verse.

LOL

Glory To God,
Taken
 

CovenantPromise

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The Eunuch believed and was baptized . When St. Philip approached his chariot he heard the Eunuch reading Isaiah 53
Isaiah 53:7-8 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?

Philip asked if he understood what he was reading:
Acts 8:26-40 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch
26 Then an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Get up and go toward the south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” (This is a wilderness road.) 27 So he got up and went. Now there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of the Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, in charge of her entire treasury. He had come to Jerusalem to worship 28 and was returning home; seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29 Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over to this chariot and join it.” 30 So Philip ran up to it and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah. He asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 He replied, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to get in and sit beside him. 32 Now the passage of the scripture that he was reading was this:

“Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter,
and like a lamb silent before its shearer,
so he does not open his mouth.
33 In his humiliation justice was denied him.
Who can describe his generation?
For his life is taken away from the earth.”

34 The eunuch asked Philip, “About whom, may I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?” 35 Then Philip began to speak, and starting with this scripture, he proclaimed to him the good news about Jesus. 36 As they were going along the road, they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water! What is to prevent me from being baptized?” 38 He commanded the chariot to stop, and both of them, Philip and the eunuch, went down into the water, and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he was passing through the region, he proclaimed the good news to all the towns until he came to Caesarea.

So clearly Philip explained the meaning and "PROCLAIMED TO HIM THE GOOD NEWS". What is that good news? It would be that salvation has come and that salvation is given to those who believe on Jesus Christ. So if Philip explained the meaning of Isaiah 53 then he would proceed to let that Eunuch know what that meant. Therefore, the Eunuch would repent and receive Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, clearly.
 
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