Are Christians to forgive everyone or only those who repent?

Have you seen a video at some point where a mother is trying to get a small child to admit he ate say...a cake. The child keeps denying he ate it and the mother points out the evidence of chocolate all over his hands and face, but the child still keeps denying he ate the cake. Then the mother finally says, look, I'm not going to punish you. I just want you to tell the truth. If you tell me the truth, I won't punish you, but if you keep lying, you are going to be punished. When the child hears that, you see the wheels start turning as he tries to understand, because he has been thinking to tell the truth will lead to punishment, but he's being told that NOT telling the truth is what will lead to punishment.

The truth will set you free.

Soverign Grace said:

That information is appreciated! I don't like the thought of the state having control because of the point you brought up. It really scares me that 99.9% of people are clueless about the public school. I was for many years.

I recall reading that they have Christian online school but I think they have to stick to CC don't they?

Click to expand...

Common Core is basically a list of behavioral objectives produced at the federal level. The problem is that most curricula and testing out there have been aligned to these objectives, so CC is here to stay even if States opt out, unfortunately. This includes some, if not most, Christian curricula.

One advantage to home schooling is that parents can see the curriculum as their children use it. Of course, a good Christian curriculum will be written from a Christian worldview and include scripture verses.... This is what I used, and I've never regretted giving my kids a Christian education.

stunnedbygrace said:

But see, I think...I can be mannered outwardly, and I should be. And I can be honest. I can see when the temptation to seethe begins to pull me under and I can cry to Him for help and He helps me to not go under. And it works for the next time and the next time and the next, if I just see the temptation and cry to Him. But I also see that there's something in me that WANTS to go under and seethe and bathe in the resentment and revenge. And it makes me hate myself, but it also makes me cry to Him.

I can try for years, decades even, to not be that way, but I will always have that in me and be that way. The only relief I've ever got comes from crying out to Him, not from trying to not be this way or rehearsing all the reasons I should stop being this way

I think the realization has to come of what I am and that realization has to STAY. I feel I am moving toward somewhere, but at the same time, I begin moving away from that somewhere. I think the moving away happens when I forget what I am and begin to think I am maybe getting better.

Click to expand...

"But I also see that there's something in me that WANTS to go under and seethe and bathe in the resentment and revenge. And it makes me hate myself, but it also makes me cry to Him."
Same here, and just the fact that you DO go to Him with these things shows you are on the right path, IMO. Just a few minutes ago, I started to think on how hurt I was by people and was arguing with them in my mind...I said NO...I am DEAD to that. I do believe it is all a process, seemingly a roller coaster at times too.

"I can try for years, decades even, to not be that way, but I will always have that in me and be that way. The only relief I've ever got comes from crying out to Him, not from trying to not be this way or rehearsing all the reasons I should stop being this way"

Oh yeah, we can try all we want but, it will always be there until He finally purges us of the things He does not want for us. And, I believe you and I are doing what we should be doing when these things come upon us, we reach out to Him, every time...
again, I see it as a process. We ARE dead to those things but, I suppose we have to strive to live it, in His strength. We know what we want to stop, He knows we want His will, Satan knows it too and he will never stop shooting those fiery arrows at us...to me, it all starts in the mind. I pray for the mind of Christ daily and believe He will bring me into completion one day.

"I think the realization has to come of what I am and that realization has to STAY."

Not sure where you are going with this. To me, who we are should not be our personalities but, we need to realize we are new creatures, and just because we don't see it come into fruition, does not change the fact that we ARE new creatures in Christ...the hard part is actually realizing it as the truth, and living it. Again, a process?

"I think the moving away happens when I forget what I am and begin to think I am maybe getting better."

Oh I so hear you here. Maybe once we think we "got it", we try to relax in that but, we are in a spiritual war in these fleshly bodies...we see in part right now but, we will one day see for real! We will see Him as He is...but for now, we are in such a wicked world, living among the blinded and un-Godly...but we (Christians) are the light in this world of darkness. Just the fact that we continually reach out to Him rather than give in to our old man, speaks volumes as to where our hearts really are, even if we WANT to seethe and get revenge, we go to Him and, that is what He wants us to do. I will fight to the death and never compromise my faith to please any other than God. EVEN though there are still many things being brought to the forefront of my mind, showing me that I will be growing until I die. His peace is so awesome once we realize it.
xo

Soverign Grace said:

There are plenty of women looking to meet someone nice.

Click to expand...

Can they handle somebody real is the question? There are plenty of nice people I meet when from time to time I visit a Church but frankly I couldn't spend time with them because unfortunately I do not find them real.
My 'real' meter has been tweaked and tuned over the years to the point where unless it registers real in an encounter as a person's fundamental essence I find it near impossible to take contenders seriously.

stunnedbygrace said:

Have you seen a video at some point where a mother is trying to get a small child to admit he ate say...a cake. The child keeps denying he ate it and the mother points out the evidence of chocolate all over his hands and face, but the child still keeps denying he ate the cake. Then the mother finally says, look, I'm not going to punish you. I just want you to tell the truth. If you tell me the truth, I won't punish you, but if you keep lying, you are going to be punished. When the child hears that, you see the wheels start turning as he tries to understand, because he has been thinking to tell the truth will lead to punishment, but he's being told that NOT telling the truth is what will lead to punishment.

The truth will set you free.

Click to expand...

Hmmm. Telling the truth got me punished once. Something almost like that happened to me when I was a kid. My three older sisters were in school, and that left only my Mother and me in the house. Something got broken, and my Mother asked me if I did it. I said no. Then she said she was sure I did it. She said she had seen it earlier and it hadn't been broken then, so she knew I did it. She said if I admitted it, she wouldn't punish me; but I kept lying, she would punish me. I told her she'd have to punish me since I hadn't done it but wouldn't lie about it, so she punished me.

I hadn't done it. I don't know how it got broken. My Mother said one of the pets certainly didn't do it when I asked about that. She had taught me earlier never to lie; and I knew that was right. In this case I also knew she was mistaken, but I also understood exactly why she didn't believe me. She honestly believed I had done it so I wasn't angry with her. I knew she had my best interest at heart.

We are to forgive from our hearts all offenders but declare to them that forgiveness only upon their repentance.

Soverign Grace said:

I know exactly what you mean. I don't think there are perfect unions this side of heaven but I could see where that one would carry a lot of weight. That's what's good about dating sites because you can list what you're looking for. I know people who have used them.

Click to expand...

The primary hurdle is that many think they are real when in fact they are self deceived. There is little understanding of what constitutes functional and dysfunctional attitudes and behaviours. It is evident on this site as I observe the various responses.

I find those that know Jesus exhibit a grace when in straits that cannot be faked easily.
Most put their best foot forward. In my view, any rope will hold until it is tested.

Giuliano said:

She honestly believed I had done it so I wasn't angry with her.

Click to expand...

That's beautiful.

It's important to remember that those given authority over us can make mistaken judgements for all the right intentions..

All the more important that we aid them with our prayers and our obedience.

Peace be with you!

stunnedbygrace said:

Have you seen a video at some point where a mother is trying to get a small child to admit he ate say...a cake. The child keeps denying he ate it and the mother points out the evidence of chocolate all over his hands and face, but the child still keeps denying he ate the cake. Then the mother finally says, look, I'm not going to punish you. I just want you to tell the truth. If you tell me the truth, I won't punish you, but if you keep lying, you are going to be punished. When the child hears that, you see the wheels start turning as he tries to understand, because he has been thinking to tell the truth will lead to punishment, but he's being told that NOT telling the truth is what will lead to punishment.

The truth will set you free.

Click to expand...

Yes the truth always sets you free. But only those who love the truth do not punish. Those who do not on the other hand, do.

Willing to forgive is the main part, but never let someone get away with a crime without rebuking them. You will create absolute monsters out of people by treating them with love after they've committed a wicked act. '...when the king does not exact justice right away, the people lose heart' (Prov).
Jesus spent half the Gospels rebuking the disciples, Paul rebuked Peter in public, and it goes without saying how ashamed that Peter felt. The Corinthians were told to ostracize the malefactor for a time, in order that he feel the shame of his ways. Paul exhorts to rebuke a sinner in public so that others may fear acting in the same way (1 Tim 5:20, Titus 1:13). It is extremely remedial when one feels the shame of a crime or sin. This is why God forbids certain things, because they are shameful. God rebukes the ones that he loves. It's the best thing that you can do for a troublemaker, is to rebuke him and expose the destructiveness of his act.

Christians need to be more austere, and stop the pseudo pious nonsense of just forgiving carte blanche. When appropriate and deserving, be confrontational the way that Jesus constantly was. Again, the transgressors greatest fear is that you expose him for the coward & louse that he is, and his greatest hope is that you forgive him without asking any questions.
Forgive, but do not overlook the crime, that's just naive and stupid. For, all you are doing is giving tacit approval to his offense, and giving him license to repeat it. Call a spade a spade, and treat them accordingly, you will be doing a service to all those affected by the offense, and the offender.
Salvation is contingent upon repentance, so should your forgiveness be, otherwise your perceived indifference will be misconstrued as approval. 'If they refuse to repent, wipe the dust off your feet in protest against them'.

jshiii said:

For those who are unwilling to repent....just shake the dust off your shoes. Still, forgive everyone 70 x 70 x 70 x 70 x 70 x 70..........


The Lord Jesus Christ ONLY, is Worthy of all our Praise and Worship!

Click to expand...

Paul has a great treatise on repentance in Romans 2...

DNB said:

Salvation is contingent upon repentance, so should your forgiveness be, otherwise your perceived indifference will be misconstrued as approval. 'If they refuse to repent, wipe the dust off your feet in protest against them'.

Click to expand...

Yes, take nothing from them so they have no claim on you. Do not be tempted to keep connections with some people because there might be an advantage in it.

Genesis 14:21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.
22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the Lord, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,
23 That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

Seems to me that if a brother offends you, or there is a problem between you and your brother, you are supposed to go to them and be reconciled (Matt 5).

Matt 6 says if you forgive others (it doesn't say brother) God will forgive you. Otherwise, he won't.

As for forgiving those who don't ask for forgiveness... Isn't this often the case? They probably think you are the problem, and no... They probably they aren't going to apologize.

So what happens is there is strife and you remain angry and bitter. You dwell on it and it consumes your life.

Or, you could forgive them and move on, living in peace.

Our default position as people is unforgiveness. Will I dwell in this land to stroke my ego? Addressing a wrong does not mean forgiveness is missing.
Jesus died for my sin before I was born which as I understand it, he forgave me while I was totally incapable of asking for anything let alone forgiveness.
Forgiveness determines how the guilty are treated. It does not mean it gives them permission to continue abuse? (sin/dysfunction))
I think it is the rejection of forgiveness by the guilty that condemns them. When good news comes within the borders of the guilty and it is rejected, the outcome is condemnation; a verdict determined themselves. When good news in the face of guilt is embraced repentance is forthcoming. If it is not, it was never embraced.

FHII said:

Seems to me that if a brother offends you, or there is a problem between you and your brother, you are supposed to go to them and be reconciled (Matt 5).
Matt 6 says if you forgive others (it doesn't say brother) God will forgive you. Otherwise, he won't.
As for forgiving those who don't ask for forgiveness... Isn't this often the case? They probably think you are the problem, and no... They probably they aren't going to apologize.
So what happens is there is strife and you remain angry and bitter. You dwell on it and it consumes your life.
Or, you could forgive them and move on, living in peace.

Click to expand...

But that's what reconciliation is, addressing the issue between the injured party and the guilty. Why would you advise someone to indiscriminately overlook an offense, like I said, consider how empowered the culprit would feel by this, ...or have I learned nothing over the years?
No one is talking about abuse or retaliation, but exposure and correction. If someone is abusive either verbally or physically, how in the world do you just forgive that? For what does that even mean, for example, if you see someone punch another in the face, do you go over to the aggressor and say, hey, let me buy you a drink? How would the victim feel, will he ask you 'are you pleased that he hit me?', and you say, 'no, but i forgave him for it'.
There comes a point where such wickedness cannot be tolerated, not without correction. And, understand something, this is not for your sake of one's pride or feelings, so that they can get over the grudge or bitterness, but for the principle, and sake of righteousness, and for the sake of eradicating the evil. No good will ever come from overlooking an offense, do your duty by confronting them and giving the offender an opportunity to repent, and if he doesn't, treat him accordingly, for he has shown contempt for the will of God.

Matthew 18:15-17
18:15. "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

'for he lets his Sun shine on the good and bad alike'
Evil needs to be addressed, there is no question about that but we are talking about forgiveness; the two both have a context. By forgiving one does not sanction evil; it rises above it, neither does it close its eye to it's heinous nature.