I haven't listened to either of these videos nor read the book you refer to. But as far as finding it disturbing that he would have more knowledge than the apostle Paul, I don't know that this would be such a disturbing thing to me considering that we are told that knowledge will increase in the time of the end...like, I'm saying, if I listened to the men or read them, I might be uneasy, I don't know, but it probably wouldn't be so much over that.
David Wilkerson's "The Vision"
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I haven't listened to either of these videos nor read the book you refer to. But as far as finding it disturbing that he would have more knowledge than the apostle Paul, I don't know that this would be such a disturbing thing to me considering that we are told that knowledge will increase in the time of the end...like, I'm saying, if I listened to the men or read them, I might be uneasy, I don't know, but it probably wouldn't be so much over that.
Huperetes
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I guess I should have been more clear. If it was just scientific or material knowledge that he was referring to I would agree with you. However, it was in the context of spiritual revelation and insight into God's plan. I think such a position is inherently dangerous because it opens the door for satanic deception under the guise of "new light" or "superior revelation". Even if(and I resit this idea) the "increase in knowledge" that Daniel spoke about did include spiritual concepts I would think we would have to at least regain that which has been lost in the early church before proclaiming we have surpassed it. I haven't seen this yet.
Hi Lawrence,
And, Welcome!!
I feel that so long as we hold the Bible first, and everything is tested against that, then we can be safe. But then we aren't agreed on the doctrines that are implied in many prophecies either.
For instance this vision, if memory serves, the eschatology is not the same as say the pre-trib eschatology. Someone convinced of the Biblical teaching of the one may have an issue with a vision that portrays the other.
And in the same way, someone who holds to a post-trib view may more readily receive as genuine a vision that agrees with their eschatology.
I think the question here is, do we form our eschatology from the Bible, or from visions? If we form it from visions, by what do we test the vision?
David Wilkerson, I agree, a completely seemingly godly man, counseled spending the few remaining good years getting ready for all this calamity. 45 years later, should we all be "Christian Preppers"?
Much love!
Huperetes
Member
I think it is always wise to be prepared. If that makes me a "prepper" then I own the label. LOL! As for the ongoing pre-trib vs post trib eschatological battle I can say this. Hope for the best(pre-trib) but prepare for the worst(post trib)
Blessings!
Helen
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I don't believe we know "it is from God" until the fulfillment!!
See Acts 2 for instance:-
16 " But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; ( then it goes on to quote Joel)
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.."
That is what I believe anyway.
The proof is in the prophesy actually coming to pass.
..and in the OT they were stoned if it didn't!!
Helen
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I see that you made it here...WELCOME.
There must be a meaning behind the name -
Huperetes ....was he a wise man ?
Just as aside...in your prepping have you also considered ...maybe being here and "going-through " it in God .
I believe we will not be here 'for' it...but we will be here through it.
But not the discussion for this Thread...we have threads dedicated to that discussion.
Bless you...H
Greetings, and welcome to Christianity Board! Glad to have you, Huperetes.
About this, can you give me the Page #? I'd like to take a look at it with you.
So am I.
Again, welcome to the community, and hope you stay awhile.
HiH
I see that you made it here...WELCOME.
There must be a meaning behind the name -
Huperetes ....was he a wise man ?
The Greek word ὑπηρέτης.
It means "Minister" or "Servant."And yes, he was a very wise man. Astoundingly so, LoL.
I actually think StunnedByGrace's statement is true even with regard to spiritual things, though I understand your concerns about deception. But I've heard a lot of mess in my day, and it really just bounces off of me. I would be inclined to think that the same would be true of those walking close to God during the end-times.
Now your last statement is absolutely true. I don't think we are anywhere near having fully recovered what was being taught in many places in the NT, either. That we are in full agreement on, and I consider it to be a very insightful remark (some in this community will consider it to be the dangerous comment, but after 30 years of study, I do not).
Huperetes
Member
Hi HIH,
I don't have the book anymore and I can't remember the exact page.It's been about ten years since I read it. However, I can remember the section. It is in the part where he finds a secret shortcut up the mountain and Paul meets him there. Does that sound familiar?
Yeah, that's where I thought you might be referring to. I recall something along those lines, but I think it may have been referring to the church growing in greater revelation, not Joyner personally. But maybe I can check later on. I had started reading it again recently, but hadn't gotten near that far yet : )
I've been going off of memory, but it's a slow day, so I thought I'd listen for a refresher . . .
. . . it's right there at the beginning, the great recession affecting every wage earner in the world, "just a few fat flourishing years", and then, beginning with Germany, then moving to Japan, then to the US. Use the few years you have to get ready . . .
And this did not happen within the next several years from when he said this.
This is the test, isn't it?
Much love!
One thing I would like to share and bring everyone's attention to is that the population of the human race is quickly outgrowing our ability to sustain it in food and other resources necessary for survival.
Also, as scripture teaches us, it said that in the last days knowledge will increase......here is a one article addressing it...Knowledge Doubling Every 12 Months, Soon to be Every 12 Hours - Industry Tap
So why did God separate the people of Babylon when they had increased so much in knowledge?
IMHO....we are the last generation that will not pass away before Jesus returns.
Keraz
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Correct.
There are many proofs of the soon to happen end times events. The main one being Iran going to wipe out Israel with nukes.
The Bible prophets tell us, in great detail; all that must take place leading up to the Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. Just read what they wrote; its all there. Revelation has the general sequence.
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DW is a sad case of someone who went for christian celebrate.
I was an amazing story of the gangs who came to Christ.
But then to become the prophet, to tell of how things will end, and how this or that will take place.
But it was wrong, and he lost the plot.
The definition of a false prophet is what they say will happen fails to take place.
Once they are a false prophet, no point listening to them.
The adulation of being the speak is so tempting if you really believe your experience is truly it.
What is strange to me, is Paul called us to live a quiet life, minding our own business and serving God.
Rather than learning love and the walk of holiness it is terror and escape from persecution via the rapture.
I think this is a real lesson of walking as the people of heaven longing for the coming of the King, and loving and serving Him while we are here for a while. God bless you.
I certainly agree with this part, on its on merit, and also because I teach that we actually have a long time to wait still, and not to concern ourselves yet with the return of Christ coming any time soon (though few agree with me, LoL).
Now about this, I take virtually everything he prophesied in the vision to still be set in the future myself. What were you basing the statement of things "failing to take place" on? Some other prophecies he spoke perhaps?
Ok, but now here I would have to disagree with how you are applying this teaching. Paul advised living a quiet life rather than standing up as protestors, i.e. against the government and against those in authority in general. To say he was arguing here for no one to stand up and prophesy is turning it into more than what he intended, imo. In 1 Thessalonians, Paul specifically commanded not to despise prophesyings, but merely to test all things and hold fast to the good.
God bless to you as well, and hope you have a wonderful evening/day tomorrow : )
. . . it's right there at the beginning, the great recession affecting every wage earner in the world, "just a few fat flourishing years", and then, beginning with Germany, then moving to Japan, then to the US. Use the few years you have to get ready . . .
And this did not happen within the next several years from when he said this.
This "vision" was prophesied to be fulfilled in a matter of a few years according to DW.
Why ignore that?
Bobby Jo
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Two pieces of evidence:
Dan. 12:4 ..Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.
We are living in the times where men travel some 60 to 600 mph; and where we have instant knowledge at our LITERAL fingertips.
And we are ~18 months into the 42 month tribulation (not the FALSE 7-years), but Christians have no clue!
Bobby Jo
So glad you answered!
Ok, now let me teach you something here.
Firstly, what you have to understand is that while the Lord gives His prophets the ability to see future events, He very rarely gives them the ability to see exactly when those events will be fulfilled, and this was true of the entire New Testament church, including the apostles. The NT letters make it clear beyond question that they believed the Lord was returning in their time; every one of them. I can cite numerous verses for you, but I'm guessing you know what I am talking about. They unquestionably believed the Day was at hand.
The Lord's reasoning for doing this is simple. He does not want His people slacking off simply because the events prophesied are NOT going to happen in their time. So He conceals the actual time of their fulfillment until such time as it would actually be beneficial to them to know things will not be happening quickly.
The same is true of modern prophets. I've found the real ones know accurately what is going to happen, but they rarely know when, and in their zeal for the Lord and their faith in the prophetic word, they do the same thing the apostles did; they interpret them to be happening sooner than what they actually are.
Secondly, about Wilkerson's statements, his words were "I saw in my vision, at first a few more fat, flourishing years and then an economic recession that will effect the lifestyle of every wage earner in the world." Now, this could have been him doing what I was describing above, but it could also have been a prophetic reference to the time we are living in right now. In other words, he was predicting the economic conditions that would precede the beginning of the great recession that would effect the economies of the entire world.
He then warns the church to use the next few years to prepare for financial crisis and to get their houses in order because hard times are coming. Now, this actually was fulfilled to some extent. I don't know if you were around then, but in 1986, the US economy did suffer a crash. Many committed suicide. The US government had to institute changes to keep the Dow from losing too much money too quickly, and this became a stop gap measure propping the entire debt system up. We still have that debt system in place today, and it is larger than ever, which means the bubble is going to burst at some point. The question is simply when.
Thirdly, and this relates back to what I was saying about timing, many in the prophetic community believe Trump was a suspension of the prophesies regarding the economic crash because the Lord was honoring those who had been praying for this nation, and therefore giving us one more period of grace before judgment falls upon the nation. I personally believe this myself, as this is what was prophesied concerning him. But this is the same principle as took place with Niniveh's judgment. Jonah prophesied their judgment, and it did indeed come to pass. But because they repented, that judgment was postponed for something like 150 years (I'd have to look. Could have been less).
I believe the same has occurred with the US in our time, but that grace is eventually going to come to an end. My personal belief is that if he gets reelected, we may have four more good years left. Once he leaves office, all bets are off, and imo it is only a matter of time.
Not looking to go around and around with you again, marks. Too much going on. Just thought I'd post to answer your question since you were asking.
God bless
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