Homosexual Church Dream

Ezra · Dec 15, 2019

JohnPaul said:
So anything goes as long as you are married, hey why not have a threesome or foursome honey we're married so it's okay.

HEY DONT BE WITH STUPID REMARKS !!!!! apostle paul wrote
1 Corinthians 14:38 New King James Version (NKJV)
38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. soo Dont i play your fleshly carnal remarks... FYI i never said anything goes.. i said SODOMY in marriage is not mentioned in scripture . what goes on in the bedroom is between the married couple and God . let the Holy spirit speak..but thank you for proving my point

Hidden In Him · Dec 15, 2019

JohnPaul said:
Should we open up the door for people who like to have sexual intercourse with animals, after all they love their pet sexual partners, after all its all about love isn’t it, we should open the doors for consensual incest too, like fathers who want to marry their daughters or mothers who want to marry their sons.

I'm not sure how they get around this one, actually. Maybe they argue against it on the basis of current morality. And if they were, current morality is slackening, meaning they might actually lower standards to become this inclusive eventually as well.

Which is even more disturbing.

Ezra · Dec 15, 2019

shnarkle said:
Are you suggesting this is a loophole?

DID I SAY IT WAS? personally i don't go around sticking my nose in other married couples affairs on what there sex life is like ..maybe you do

VictoryinJesus · Dec 15, 2019

shnarkle said:
Everyone who enters into the kingdom will be parading as well as earnestly making sure they get it no matter what. The contrast to the legalists just standing there watching is disturbing. Jesus points out that not only do they not enter themselves, but they do their level best to prevent others from entering as well. None of us are good enough, nor do any of us deserve to be allowed entrance into the kingdom which makes it all the more amazing that we are invited despite the fact that we're all born sinners.

It spotlights the Pharisee in us all. This whole topic of homosexuality is pointless if we get honest with ourselves. God's law is for our benefit. It is all sound doctrine. The Pharisees cherry picked the law and provided loopholes for themselves to get around the laws they didn't want to keep. It is the supreme irony to see Christ pointing this out, and then see Christians use that exact same passage to come up with a legal loophole for God's commandments themselves.

The Mosaic law provides a baseline which Christ not only never does away with, but exceeds. Christianity has completely dropped the ball by assuming that God's commandments are done away with.

I have spent decades arguing with atheists, agnostics, and skeptics, and the incredible irony is in noting that they make the same arguments Christians make when it comes to God's law.

Not sure what you mean by "as being good in all". I'm not referring to the law of the land, but explicitly to the Mosaic law.

That's a level of honesty that is rare today among Christians.

The crux of the matter has to do with the fact that Paul is condemning those who seek to justify themselves by the law. Christianity has concluded that this is an invitation to ignore the law altogether. It is a logical fallacy. It is a Non Sequitur. Just because no one is justified by the law, doesn't do away with the law. The purpose of the law was never to justify anyone. It was a false or illegitimate purpose.

Can I ask what seventh day rest you believe is spoke of in: Hebrews 4:3-5
[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. [4] For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. [5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

What is the Spiritual revealed by the keeping of the natural observing of the Sabbath day of rest, is what I’m asking?

Ezra · Dec 15, 2019

shnarkle said:
The whole issue revolves around God's promise to Abraham to have descendants as numerous as the stars. Anything that was an affront to that promise was sin. Coming up with legal loopholes to nullify God's word, doesn't cut it.

so we dont need to follow hebrews 13:4 on marriage ?

DNB · Dec 15, 2019

Pearl said:
But it isn't the only sin to be accepted as normal is it? Adultery and unmarried sex have also been normalised. And so has lying and other 'lesser' sin as well as abortion. I do not condone homosexuality at all but what I do think is that we should not automatically shun people who practice it but draw them to Christ with love. If they choose to carry on with their chosen lifestyle that is up to them but hate is a sin too and we must not hate them. But I do think that if they decide to follow Jesus then they need to repent of their former lifestyle and abstain from that type of sex just as anybody would be expected to turn away from their former sinful lifestyle and live their lives God's way.

Agreed Pearl, but I think that homosexuality has reached a higher level of acceptance than other sins. This is why some of us feel a greater need to denounce it, just to make the point clear. Plus, the sins of the body have a more contemptuous and dishonourable aspect about them, than the other 'tolerated' sins. I hope that JohnPaul doesn't take an abusive stance towards them, which I don't condone either, that's not the issue at hand, but just to make it clear the egregious nature of the sin.

Don't forget Pearl, that the acceptability of homosexuality has even infiltrated the Church, this is why we have a such a strong voice against it. No one is talking about abuse here, at least I am not, but rather a firm, uncompromised and austere voice against it.

shnarkle · Dec 15, 2019

Ezra said:
DID I SAY IT WAS?

That's the implication. Yes.

personally i don't go around sticking my nose in other married couples affairs on what there sex life is like ..maybe you do

Fallacy of the Non Sequitur. I couldn't care less what people do in their privat lives. That's not the point, nor is it what I was referring to. I was asking you a simple question which you spurned and instead chose to indulge in some pointless trolling.

shnarkle · Dec 15, 2019

Ezra said:
so we dont need to follow hebrews 13:4 on marriage ?

Of course not. Sodomy is fornication, and adulterous. It is an affront to the explicit purpose of marriage.

Ezra · Dec 15, 2019

shnarkle said:
Most people don't know that marriage was originally a means of learning how to be chaste. Most discover this the hard way.

hmm this could open up a new can of worms as in how many truthfully stayed pure till marriage? yes i know of several but since we have to come the way of the cross for salvation.. which would send a person to hell sodomomy or adultery ?

Hidden In Him · Dec 15, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
I agree, and have to really wonder about husbands who want that sort of thing.

It's a symptom of a lack of holiness, imo. I am in disagreement with shnarkle regarding using the observance of dietary laws to distinguish ourselves from an immoral "Christianity," but I do agree there should be a distinction made where daily lifestyle is concerned. The commands I see in the NT centered on abiding in Him, which as I have demonstrated numerous times means giving oneself to a life of continual prayer, worship, study of His word, and ministry. I think continually abiding in the presence of God has a way of quickening the Christian conscience (even those who formerly had no convictions about them) to view such acts as being unholy.

JohnPaul · Dec 15, 2019

Ezra said:
HEY DONT BE WITH STUPID REMARKS !!!!! apostle paul wrote
1 Corinthians 14:38 New King James Version (NKJV)
38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. soo Dont i play your fleshly carnal remarks... FYI i never said anything goes.. i said SODOMY in marriage is not mentioned in scripture . what goes on in the bedroom is between the married couple and God . let the Holy spirit speak..but thank you for proving my point

I’m not making stupid remarks, if you say it’s between the married couple then they could do anything they want in the bedroom as long as they’re married, including group sex, nothing is wrong they are married, according to you.

shnarkle · Dec 15, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
Can I ask what seventh day rest you believe is spoke of in: Hebrews 4:3-5

The word itself means "rest". That's what the Sabbath is all about. Resting in Christ's perfect work in life and on the cross. Rest from work, and from thinking that we need to work to be approved.

What is the Spiritual revealed by the keeping of the natural observing of the Sabbath day of rest, is what I’m asking?

See above, and note that only God can sanctify a day. Nowhere in scripture do we find the first day of the week being sanctified or set aside for holy purpose. That was something the Catholic church deemed possible to do herself. She thought to change God's law...

Pearl · Dec 15, 2019

DNB said:
I think that homosexuality has reached a higher level of acceptance than other sins.

Really? Perhaps the marriage rates are going up in your country then but here it accepted that people will live together without benefit of a marriage ceremony. And this is totally accepted even though it doesn't cause such a knee-jerk reaction as gay people might do.

JohnPaul · Dec 15, 2019

shnarkle said:
The word itself means "rest". That's what the Sabbath is all about. Resting in Christ's perfect work in life and on the cross. Rest from work, and from thinking that we need to work to be approved.

See above, and note that only God can sanctify a day. Nowhere in scripture do we find the first day of the week being sanctified or set aside for holy purpose. That was something the Catholic church deemed possible to do herself. She thought to change God's law...

I thought Christ did that when he worked on the Sabbath day by performing miracles and healing the sick.

shnarkle · Dec 15, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
It's a symptom of a lack of holiness, imo. I am in disagreement with shnarkle regarding using the observance of dietary laws to distinguish ourselves from an immoral "Christianity,"

That's just plain false. You are missing my point completely. The dietary laws are not meant to distinguish anyone from anyone else. All of God's laws are for our benefit. They are sound doctrine.

I think continually abiding in the presence of God has a way of quickening the Christian conscience (even those who formerly had no convictions about them) to view such acts as being unholy.

Quite true, but then what difference does it make if one keep one law, but ignore the rest which are just as easily able to pollute and defile? All of it originates in a defiled and fallen heart. It is the most blatant and gross deception of the heart to think that it is made holy by keeping one law while ignoring those it deems irrelevant. This is why it is only when God changes the carnal mind for a new mind in Christ that one is then able to keep ALL of the law as God intended. If one is still cherry picking, then we're still working our way to salvation.

Hidden In Him · Dec 15, 2019

Helen said:
"Sodomy " is used for "same sex" so there can be no Sodomy in a hetro marriage. We know what you are saying...but the terminology is wrong.

Actually, Helen (and I'm guessing someone may have pointed this out by now. This thread took off) the proper definition of the word sodomy does not limit it to same sex partners. It applies to committing the same sorts of acts that only same sex partners could do (trying to be tactful here), and thus can apply to heterosexuals as well if they engage in the same practices.

Ezra · Dec 15, 2019

shnarkle said:
That's the implication. Yes.

Fallacy of the Non Sequitur. I couldn't care less what people do in their private lives. That's not the point, nor is it what I was referring to. I was asking you a simple question which you spurned and instead chose to indulge in some pointless trolling.

see there is the problem you twisted what i posted you took what i posted and made it imply something i never said . i have noticed on the internet forums you have judge jury and executioner . so let me HELP you understand i stated the word sodomy in line with married couples was not in scripture . its amazing when i reply back you call it trolling . this entire post reminds me of the political fight going on about pres trump. he. is unfit for command as president one because of his adulterous affairs his so called dealing with ukraine over a phone call .. gosh i wonder how many has had affairs and has dealt under the table to get a deal done? whats the term used alot solo scripture

Ezra · Dec 15, 2019

shnarkle said:
That's just plain false. You are missing my point completely.

say it aint so

shnarkle · Dec 15, 2019

JohnPaul said:
I thought Christ did that when he worked on the Sabbath day by performing miracles and healing the sick.

The commandments stipulate "servile work", i.e. working to sustain oneself. Christ himself points out that it is perfectly acceptable to help someone get their ox out of a ditch on the Sabbath. The Sabbath doesn't preclude us from helping others in need. Christianity has taken the exception to the rule and made it the rule thus annulling God's commandments. Again, this is the fallacy of the Non Sequitur.

They have done the same thing with marriage by looking at the exception to the rule, and making it the rule. It was a law to deal with the exception for those who shouldn't be married to begin with, and used to annul God's commandment altogether. For Christians, what Christ calls adultery is now legitimate marriage.

Notice that this is how the secular world operates. Whenever the abortion topic is brought up, it is always the exceptions to the rule, that are used to make it the rule. If there is an exception to the rule, then it legitimates abortion for any reason.

Hidden In Him · Dec 15, 2019

DNB said:
kamasutra

Kama Sutra is really just a manual on different positions. You think might be getting a little too strict here. If anything but missionary is "unholy," this might be putting to high a restrictions on how "sacredness" in the marriage bed is defined myself.

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