Homosexual Church Dream

JohnPaul said:

The jews accused the Lord of working in the Sabbath day,

Click to expand...

It never ceases to amaze me how professing Christians will take the word of an accusing legalist over Christ himself. Christ points out that they are liars. Did you know that Jewish scholars agree with Jesus? They will point out repeatedly that these Pharisees are lying right through their teeth.

you can set aside any day to rest,

Click to expand...

Sure, but so what? That's not the point. The point is that only God can sanctify a day, and God sanctified the seventh day so that we could rest in his holiness. Why would anyone want to change to a day that can never be holy?

the Lird liberated us of that and dietary laws.

Click to expand...

Christ and Paul both use the term "liberty" in relation to liberty from sin, not the liberty to sin. To claim that God's law is a burden is one of the most incomprehensibly unbiblical things I've ever heard people say. Ezekiel points out that those who refer to God placing burdens upon men's shoulders are a burden to God. God explicitly points out that he doesn't place burdens on people's shoulders.

Helen said:

Never heard that one before...
He said that we was going to heaven to "prepare a place"....
As the bridegrooms of old went to prepare a place in their Fathers house..

Click to expand...

I’m struggling there, Helen. You may be right so I’m not suggesting you are not but ask because I don’t understand. He went to prepare a place because no place was found for His people. Then He said If He went to prepare a place for you then He would come again and receive you so that where He is so you would be with Him also. John 16:14-17 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. [15] All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. [16] A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father. [17] Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father?

The Father and Son come to make their abode? In reading your post in the past you seem to believe He has returned —the Father and Son —and made there abode. “I will never leave nor forsake you.” What is His Father’s House that He went to prepare a place within for those who Love Him and keep His sayings. No consummation only His body left to bear His children?

JohnPaul said:

Must die by the law,

Click to expand...

Rightly divide the word, and you will live by the law:



Deuteronomy 4:1
"Now, O Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I am teaching you to perform, so that you may live and go in and take possession of the land which the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you.
Deuteronomy 8:1
"All the commandments that I am commanding you today you shall be careful to do, that you may live and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD swore to give to your forefathers.
Proverbs 4:4
Then he taught me and said to me, "Let your heart hold fast my words; Keep my commandments and live;
Proverbs 7:2
Keep my commandments and live, And my teaching as the apple of your eye.
Matthew 19:17
And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Nehemiah 9:29
And admonished them in order to turn them back to Your law Yet they acted arrogantly and did not listen to Your commandments but sinned against Your ordinances, By which if a man observes them he shall live And they turned a stubborn shoulder and stiffened their neck, and would not listen.
Ezekiel 20:11
"I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live.
Ezekiel 20:13
"But the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness They did not walk in My statutes and they rejected My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live; and My sabbaths they greatly profaned Then I resolved to pour out My wrath on them in the wilderness, to annihilate them.
Ezekiel 20:21
"But the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, nor were they careful to observe My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live; they profaned My sabbaths. So I resolved to pour out My wrath on them, to accomplish My anger against them in the wilderness.
Leviticus 18:5
'So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, by which a man may live if he does them; I am the LORD.
Psalm 119:17
Deal bountifully with Your servant, That I may live and keep Your word.
Deuteronomy 32:47
"For it is not an idle word for you; indeed it is your life And by this word you will prolong your days in the land, which you are about to cross the Jordan to possess."
Proverbs 4:22
For they are life to those who find them And health to all their body.
Deuteronomy 30:20
by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them."
Deuteronomy 5:33
"You shall walk in all the way which the LORD your God has commanded you, that you may live and that it may be well with you, and that you may prolong your days in the land which you will possess.
Romans 10:5
For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.
Galatians 3:12
However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."
Ezekiel 33:15
if a wicked man restores a pledge, pays back what he has taken by robbery, walks by the statutes which ensure life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
Ezekiel 20:25
"I also gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not live;
John 5:39
"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
Galatians 3:21
Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.
Romans 7:10
and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;

Pearl said:

God's children are those adopted into his family through the blood of Jesus.

Click to expand...

Adopted?

JohnPaul said:

You people make me laugh, you probably have a rainbow flag hanging from your door.

Click to expand...

A rainbow signifies God's promise to Noah, doesn't it? Is there something wrong with that idea? Doesn't it boil down to WHY one has a rainbow flag?

VictoryinJesus said:

The Father and Son come to make their abode? In reading your post in the past you seem to believe He has returned —the Father and Son —and made there abode. a “I will never leave nor forsake you.” What is His Father’s House that He went to prepare a place within for those who Love Him and keep His sayings. No consummation only His body left to bear His children?

Click to expand...

Don't sweat it...
The thing is ..many times in the word it is not 'either v Or '.
or a question of which is right or wrong..but both.

We say :- Jesus is the Good shepherd, so does that then mean He cannot be The Door of the sheep fold too? No, He says He is both...

Yes, you are right...I do believe He has come and made His abode with us.
But I also see this as a weak "shadow of things yet to come..." as Paul says..

1 Cor 13
12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. "

Surely you don't believe that we have 'here and now' tasted of the fullness of His Presence!!



Nah, I am sure you don't ...

xx

JohnPaul said:

You just like to keep making excuses, perhaps you like sodomy and oral sex and other deviant acts.

Click to expand...

What gave you that idea? Now you're just projecting your own latent homosexual tendencies onto others. It doesn't really bother me given that I'm not afraid of them to begin with. I even have friends who are homosexuals, not because they're gay, but simply because I'm not afraid or offended by the sinner. All sinners are in need of having the gospel proclaimed to them for salvation. Some would rather engage in trolling than make an honest effort. To each his own.

What you need to do is try and move beyond your own anal fixation which you should have dealt with when you went through puberty. This is what homosexuals need to do as well which shows that you're basically in the same boat with them still. All I can do is to simply pray you see the light, and change the error of your ways. Perhaps I should reiterate what Paul says, and point out that "God is blasphemed through you". Romans 2:24

Helen said:

YOU said ..quote:-
"Hardcore to the bone on homosexuality, will never accept it."

So I said ..well I hope you feel the same way about anger, lies , self-righteousness and all the rest of the gang that goes along with it.

God does not define things as BIG sins and LITTLE sins...flesh is flesh..so ALL the sins thereof will not inherit the Kingdom...not just homosexuals ( which He didn't speak about) but He did speak about 'offending the little ones'... .

There is no 1-10 on ranking sin.

That is what I was saying...

Click to expand...

I do Helen, I’m not angry.

Helen said:

Surely you don't believe that we have 'here and now' tasted of the fullness of His Presence!!

Click to expand...

Not at all. Romans 8:18 says it best: “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.”

But still would say the consummation has taken place (but hold onto it lightly). The incorruptible seed He said remains. Can’t get pass the seed is what gives birth to Life (blessing)and Is fruitful and multiples the children born unto God. IF intimacy hasn’t taken place...but instead the body bears children while He is away preparing a place...seems backwards. Christ told the Pharisees His incorruptible seed (the Word of God) had no place in them ...otherwise they would not seek to kill Him. I don’t know. Getting off here and taking a break. I’m sorry if I’m being confusing. Sick today and this entire thread has thrown in more questions than answers.

VictoryinJesus said:

IF intimacy hasn’t taken place...but instead the body bears children while He is away preparing a place...seems backwards.

Click to expand...

It's not just backwards, it's infidelity. He says to the women crying, "Don't cry for me. Mourn for those who are with child when I return". When the husband returns from preparing the home for his blushing bride, a child in her arms is not what he's going to want to see.

JohnPaul said:

I’m not making stupid remarks, if you say it’s between the married couple then they could do anything they want in the bedroom as long as they’re married, including group sex, nothing is wrong they are married, according to you.

Click to expand...

as i said stupid remarks well next time i do a marriage ceremony ..i will give instructions no group sex no swingers and most of all please have a camera ready so as everyone can make sure its proper sex... would that work . but yes what goes on behind closed doors stays behind closed doors .. do you peek in others to make sure its proper?

shnarkle said:

If by "living together" you mean heterosexual fornication, then the answer is "no". All fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. That being the case, there is no effective difference.

Click to expand...

Lot & the Angels of God considered more acceptable to have woman raped by men, than to have men raped by men.

shnarkle said:

So is eating swine, shellfish, etc. If God can arbitrarily condone what was once an abomination, why stop there?

Click to expand...

Dietary laws ended with the new covenant, clearly they were not fundamentally as egregious as the laws that still hold eg: murder,blasphemy, theft, fornication, etc...

shnarkle said:

It most certainly was. If the woman was married, the punishment was death by stoning. There are some other examples as well.

Click to expand...

That's adultery, ...but heterosexual fornication was not condemned. I consider it to be the lesser of the two evils, the same that the Levite and his concubine considered a woman being raped by men, was better than a man to be raped by men. (Jug 19)

Giuliano said:

Why did God make some people gay? Many people say it's a choice. Even Paul didn't go that far. Paul said God made them gay.

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Read the things in the list Paul gave. Why pick just one out of the list?

1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

When you understand the mystery of why God gives some people up to things, then perhaps you will be in a position to judge them. Until then:

Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

How odd then that some churches seem to think homosexuality is the only thing mentioned.

Click to expand...

you might be interested in researching the expression 'giving them over'

Helen said:

What!!
So, why are Adultery , Abortion, Drunkenness , wife beating , child beating, incensed , white slavery etc etc ant BETTER sins !!!!!

LOL , maybe you should rethink that one...

Click to expand...

Sorry Helen, I'm not sure if I understood your contention?
I meant that in these days, something that was as detestable as homosexuality in God's eyes (worthy of a death sentence), has reached such a level of acceptance in our society today, for it's promoted in all the media, and it has even penetrated the Church where Church leaders are allowed to be openly, and practicing gays (Anglicanism).
The sins that you cited, I don't believe have anywhere, reached that same level of embracement?

DNB said:

Lot & the Angels of God considered more acceptable to have woman raped by men, than to have men raped by men.

Click to expand...

Pure unadulterated nonsense. Nowhere in the text does it state that Lot's daughters were raped. Lot only offered them his daughters. The angels didn't allow it to happen. However, Lot's daughters were allowed to engage in incest with their father. So by your logic, you can have all the incestuous sex you please.

Dietary laws ended with the new covenant,

Click to expand...

No, they didn't. What ended was the sacrificial system, and the dietary laws were not part of the sacrificial system. The dietary laws were part of the holiness code right along with sodomy, homosexuality, etc. Try not to cherry pick.

clearly they were not fundamentally as egregious as the laws that still hold eg: murder,blasphemy, theft, fornication, etc...

Click to expand...

Clearly they are just as egregious, or God wouldn't have referred to transgressing them as "an abomination".

That's adultery, ...but heterosexual fornication was not condemned.

Click to expand...

It is explicitly condemned. What do you think it means to lose your salvation? How do you come to the conclusion that fornicators will not enter into the kingdom of heaven to mean anything other than condemnation???

I consider it to be the lesser of the two evils,

Click to expand...

Your private interpretation is of no value whatsoever in comparison to the straightforward word of God.

a woman being raped by men, was better than a man to be raped by men. (Jug 19)

Click to expand...

I'm saving that one for the record book.

Pearl said:

All sin is 'punishable' by spiritual death. In God's eyes sin is sin - falling well below his benchmark. I do not condone homosexuality but people have a choice just as we ourselves do. And it isn't our job to judge them - God will do that. But it is our job to show them a better way and it is our job to love them as we are directed to love our neighbours as ourselves. Homosexuality is not going to go away any time soon so what do we do? We must ask ourselves, 'What would Jesus do?' 'How would he treat the men and women who practice unnatural sex acts?' We need to look at the nature of God - who is Love personified to get the answer to that. And perhaps people have differing views on how He would treat them but only His views matter. But I think we'll get closer to them with gentleness rather than aggression. And then we can show them what God says about it in a way they maight actually listen to.

Click to expand...

That's fine Pearl, i simply made my point of how this sins stands out, in one manner or another, over other sins. These days it needs a strong voice against, that's all that I'm doing. I've made it clear in other posts, that my prescription on how to deal with it did not involve abuse or hate.
But, if I begin to see a reprobate attitude in the person that I am dealing with, I will start to become intolerant with their petty and ostensible arguments, and feel a need to lay down the law and call a spade a spade i.e. a defiant pervert.
I just hope that your attitude of unconditional love doesn't do more harm than good, i.e. please tell me that you believe that there is a time for gentleness and patience, and then a time for uncompromising sternness (depending on who one is dealing with).

DNB said:

if I begin to see a reprobate attitude in the person that I am dealing with, I will start to become intolerant with their petty and ostensible arguments, and feel a need to lay down the law and call a spade a spade i.e. a defiant pervert.
I just hope that your attitude of unconditional love doesn't do more harm than good, i.e. please tell me that you believe that there is a time for gentleness and patience, and then a time for uncompromising sternness (depending on who one is dealing with).

Click to expand...

there is a time for uncompromising sternness (depending on who one is dealing with). all this has to be lead by the spirit... sometimes when you see they are blinded and still convinced there right.. then its time to walk away .think Christ called it dusting off your sandals moving on . i know a woman at work that is lesbian .talking to her watching her you would never know it.. i joke around with her talk to her treat her like everyone else. she knows where i stand yes she knows i dont support or agree with her life style.. peter wrote love covers a multitude of sins . best i can do is love her through Christ Love.. at one time i was rebellious a practicing heathen . indited by fed grand jury on growing weed on Gov land.. yet Church folks loved me beyond my sinful lifestyle if she asked me i would tell her..but this woman knows the truth may not. know the Bible real well . i feel the need to be friendly to her and treat her with respect. in hopes she will see the Light

shnarkle said:

Pure unadulterated nonsense. Nowhere in the text does it state that Lot's daughters were raped. Lot only offered them his daughters. The angels didn't allow it to happen. However, Lot's daughters were allowed to engage in incest with their father. So by your logic, you can have all the incestuous sex you please.
No, they didn't. What ended was the sacrificial system, and the dietary laws were not part of the sacrificial system. The dietary laws were part of the holiness code right along with sodomy, homosexuality, etc. Try not to cherry pick.
Clearly they are just as egregious, or God wouldn't have referred to transgressing them as "an abomination".
It is explicitly condemned. What do you think it means to lose your salvation? How do you come to the conclusion that fornicators will not enter into the kingdom of heaven to mean anything other than condemnation???
Your private interpretation is of no value whatsoever in comparison to the straightforward word of God.
I'm saving that one for the record book.

Click to expand...

shnarkle, you are very difficult to talk to!
You didn't understand a thing that was said, and you took my comments out of context?

1. Two examples in the Bible where men wanted to rape the visitors in the town, women were offered instead, with the exclamation, 'do not do such a detestable act, here, take the women..' (paraphrase). You interpret that as you like.
2. God said to Peter, do not call unclean, what I have made clean. The dietary laws ended,..I can't believe that I'm spelling this out for you?
1 Corinthians 8:8. But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.
3. I'm talking about the OT, where these were capital crimes, as opposed to other interdictions that were not.

Anyhow shnarkle, I'm sorry, you're not comprehending what I'm saying. You haven't addressed any point that I made in the correct context.