Is There Different Beliefs Among Catholics? Chrislam Movement?

BreadOfLife · Dec 17, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
Except your objection is that I do not accept Catholic/Papel authority.

I"m sorry, but this whole "substance" and "being" stuff isn't plainly in the Bible. And the Biblical definition of Christian is a disciple of Christ, not a disciple of the Athanasian Creed.

And once again – the doctrine of the Trinity is NOT exclusively a Catholic believe.
This is a doctrine that is held by ALL Christians.

NOT sure why you think I require you to adhere to Papal Authority – but that’s just a dodge . . .

Jane_Doe22 · Dec 17, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
And once again – the doctrine of the Trinity is NOT exclusively a Catholic believe.
This is a doctrine that is held by ALL Christians.

NOT sure why you think I require you to adhere to Papal Authority – but that’s just a dodge . . .

You accept the Creeds because it is approved by the Papecy.

I don't.

Sorry, but you're citing sources outside of the Bible to say that I'm not lining up with the Bible. That argument just doesn't hold any water for me. The Biblical definition of a Christian is a disciple of Christ. The Bible preaches about Christ, and His divine mission as Savior and Son of God. There's nothing in there plainly about God's "substance" or special definitions of "person" and "being".

So your ultimate objection here is that I don't accept the human leaders that you do. Nothing to to with me not believing Christ, not being a Christian according to the definition in the Bible, or my believing in one God. It's that I don't accept the human leaders that you do.

BreadOfLife · Dec 17, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
You accept the Creeds because it is approved by the Papecy.

I don't.

Sorry, but you're citing sources outside of the Bible to say that I'm not lining up with the Bible. That argument just doesn't hold any water for me. The Biblical definition of a Christian is a disciple of Christ. The Bible preaches about Christ, and His divine mission as Savior and Son of God. There's nothing in there plainly about God's "substance" or special definitions of "person" and "being".

So your ultimate objection here is that I don't accept the human leaders that you do. Nothing to to with me not believing Christ, not being a Christian according to the definition in the Bible, or my believing in one God. It's that I don't accept the human leaders that you do.

That’s fine.

When you can show me that the Mormon roots go back to the 1st century – then I will consider that the LDS church has a say in the definition of how “Christian” is defined. The problem is that they only came about less than 200 years ago.

Joining a club and dismissing the rules simply makes you the member of a new club.
The same if true for Mormonism. They have redefined WHO and WHAT God is. And the Biblical God the Father is NOT a man of bones and flesh as Joseph Smith defined. He is SPIRIT, as the Scriptures defined (John 4:24).

Sorry – but you worship a different god(s) than the God of Christianity.

Jane_Doe22 · Dec 17, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
That’s fine.

When you can show me that the Mormon roots go back to the 1st century – then I will consider that the LDS church has a say in the definition of how “Christian” is defined. The problem is that they only came about less than 200 years ago.

Joining a club and dismissing the rules simply makes you the member of a new club.
The same if true for Mormonism. They have redefined WHO and WHAT God is. And the Biblical God the Father is NOT a man of bones and flesh as Joseph Smith defined. He is SPIRIT, as the Scriptures defined (John 4:24).

Sorry – but you worship a different god(s) than the God of Christianity.

It's not about a club or history.

It's about GOD and a relationship with Him.

BreadOfLife · Dec 17, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
It's not about a club or history.

It's about GOD and a relationship with Him.

Right – and if you were honest, you would admit that I was using the “club” scenario merely as a hypothetical example.

The bottom line is that by the doctrinal definitions of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormonism) – you worship a different god(s) than the God of Christianity.

Jane_Doe22 · Dec 17, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
Right – and if you were honest, you would admit that I was using the “club” scenario merely as a hypothetical example.

The bottom line is that by the doctrinal definitions of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormonism) – you worship a different god(s) than the God of Christianity.

*rolls eyes*

No.

Rather human leaders have decided to erect extra Biblical statements and because I don't match those definition, you decide to deny my relationship with Christ.

Christianity is about a person's relationship with Christ.

Taken · Dec 17, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
No –

Yes. LOL

Glory to God,
Taken

bbyrd009 · Dec 17, 2019

Taken said:
Satan is still present in this world.
Men still have Carnal Minds that can be swayed...remember the lesson about a TemptER?

A man who has become Born Again...has Established A Heartful..Spiritual Relationship with the Lord God...

Which means ... the mans soul, the mans spirit, is off Limits to Satan's influence...

Yet...while the Carnal Mind is still Naturally Alive... God did Not "change" or renew or rebirth our Carnal Minds.

The changing of our Carnal Minds is the individuals quest...and that is an ongoing process of the man Listening to his hearts thoughts Over his Carnal Minds thoughts...

It is called..having a mind like Christ.

A saved soul and Born Again spirit IS SEALED unto God.

But the Carnal Mind, can still be influenced...
And Gods Word...aside from the Law...is full of Gods "Precepts"...teaching men the most beneficial WAY for men to Behave toward men for the best outcome and the Least negative consequence that men CAN impose upon men.

Glory to God,
Taken

Aw, you got it bad huh, maybe the worst case I’ve ever seen

Taken · Dec 17, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
Yeh, you got it bad ok, maybe the worst case I’ve ever seen

When you can define it...let me know.

LOL

BreadOfLife · Dec 17, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
*rolls eyes*

No.

Rather human leaders have decided to erect extra Biblical statements and because I don't match those definition, you decide to deny my relationship with Christ.

Christianity is about a person's relationship with Christ.

Right – and you cannot have a relationship with a counterfeit Christ, so we’re back at square ONE.
You deny the Christian God – namely, the Trinity defined as:
ONE God, manifested as Three distinct Persons:
Father (Spirit – John 4:24, Eph. 4:6)
Son (Divine and Human - John 1:1, John 8:58, John 20:28, Col. 2:9, Heb. 1:8, Titus 2:13)
Holy Spirit (Spirit - John 14:16-18, 2 Cor. 3:17, Acts 5:3-4)

The gods of Mormonism, on the other hand are Three separate Beings:
Father (Flesh and Bone - Doctrine and Covenants 130:22).
Son (Flesh and Bone - Only Begotten Son of the Father according to the flesh - 2 Nephi 25:12; Alma 5:48; Doctrine and Covenants 93:11)
Holy Spirit (Spirit)

bbyrd009 · Dec 17, 2019

Taken said:
When you can define it...let me know.

LOL

Got someone you respect could read each of our last few posts to each other maybe? But it is all about the fruit of the tree of knowledge

Jane_Doe22 · Dec 17, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
Right – and you cannot have a relationship with a counterfeit Christ, so we’re back at square ONE.
You deny the Christian God – namely, the Trinity defined as

No, I deny the Athanasian Creed.

Don't mistake that with the Bible. The Bible doesn't say anything about substance or special "being" and "person" definitions.

This is the last time I'm going to address this in a polite manner.

Taken · Dec 17, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
Got someone you respect could read each of our last few posts to each other maybe? But it is all about the fruit of the tree of knowledge

Ok, we're done.

BreadOfLife · Dec 17, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
No, I deny the Athanasian Creed.

Don't mistake that with the Bible. The Bible doesn't say anything about substance or special "being" and "person" definitions.

This is the last time I'm going to address this in a polite manner.

Well, that’s unfortunate, but YOUR Mormon theology erroneously defines God the Father as having a “tangible body” of “flesh and bones”.

This is flat-out heresy. This is NOT based on a human misunderstanding of Scripture – but what the Word of God plainly states.

You worship a different god(s) than the God of Christianity.

epostle · Dec 17, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
*rolls eyes*

No.

Rather human leaders have decided to erect extra Biblical statements and because I don't match those definition, you decide to deny my relationship with Christ.

Christianity is about a person's relationship with Christ.

You have this weird penchant for "human leaders" that is not logical. "human leaders have decided to erect extra Biblical statements" is a dogmatic statement that is not in the Bible. By asserting "human leaders" the way you do, you make is sound as though "human leaders" are separate and distinct or automatically wrong if their names do not appear in Scripture. This is absurd because you have to defend the false notion that after the death of the last Apostle, the divine characteristics of the human-historical-intuitional CHURCH died with them.
This is a belief, not a fact.

I have studied psychology and psychiatry and it is my opinion that Joseph Smith was a paranoid schizophrenic. You can buy "golden tablets" on Ebay. The teachings of Joseph Smith are analogous to Martin Luther, the rotten fruit of insanity.

That is not to say that Mormons and Protestants are not Christians, I am not saying that all. Nobody knows who really is a Christian and who isn't, except God (and John Calvin). Your accusation of BoL denying that you are a Christian is a non-sequitur fallacy, a lie because he didn't say that at all. This is why I veer from your posts, because they are deceitful. Polytheism was never a Christian belief.

Your opinions do not match the writings of the Early Church Fathers who had SOME authority, because none of their 'opinions' match your opinions, not the other way around. You MUST re-write the facts of history and deny that anyone had any authority other than the ones named in the Bible. This is absurd.

Bear in mind I respect the LDS for their anti-smoking campaign, and the many good works that they do.. Nobody but God and Calvin says who is a Christian and who isn't. BoL did not attack you personally, but you took it personally. Grow up.

Jane_Doe22 · Dec 17, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
Well, that’s unfortunate, but YOUR Mormon theology erroneously defines God the Father as having a “tangible body” of “flesh and bones”.

This is flat-out heresy. This is NOT based on a human misunderstanding of Scripture – but what the Word of God plainly states.

You worship a different god(s) than the God of Christianity.

Come back to me when you find a verse in the Bible that talks about that you describe as the "core" your your beliefs.

Jane_Doe22 · Dec 17, 2019

epostle said:
You have this weird penchant for "human leaders" that is not logical. "human leaders have decided to erect extra Biblical statements" is a dogmatic statement that is not in the Bible. By asserting "human leaders" the way you do, you make is sound as though "human leaders" are separate and distinct or automatically wrong if their names do not appear in Scripture. This is absurd because you have to defend the false notion that after the death of the last Apostle, the divine characteristics of the human-historical-intuitional CHURCH died with them.
This is a belief, not a fact.

I have studied psychology and psychiatry and it is my opinion that Joseph Smith was a paranoid schizophrenic. You can buy "golden tablets" on Ebay. The teachings of Joseph Smith are analogous to Martin Luther, the rotten fruit of insanity.

That is not to say that Mormons and Protestants are not Christians, I am not saying that all. Nobody knows who really is a Christian and who isn't, except God (and John Calvin). Your accusation of BoL denying that you are a Christian is a non-sequitur fallacy, a lie because he didn't say that at all. This is why I veer from your posts, because they are deceitful. Polytheism was never a Christian belief.

Your opinions do not match the writings of the Early Church Fathers who had SOME authority, because none of their 'opinions' match your opinions, not the other way around. You MUST re-write the facts of history and deny that anyone had any authority other than the ones named in the Bible. This is absurd.

Bear in mind I respect the LDS for their anti-smoking campaign, and the many good works that they do.. Nobody but God and Calvin says who is a Christian and who isn't. BoL did not attack you personally, but you took it personally. Grow up.

*Deep breath*

I am doing my best here to be respectful to other people and their beliefs, even such is not shown to me.

amadeus · Dec 17, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
*Deep breath*

I am doing my best here to be respectful to other people and their beliefs, even such is not shown to me.

Don't give up or lose courage here. God is certainly more pleased by our attitudes (Holy Spirit led?) than by how many people we have clearly overwhelmed with our doctrinal or biblical knowledge.

bbyrd009 · Dec 17, 2019

Taken said:
Ok, we're done.

ok well my apologies if you find something there offensive? Suggesting you get another perspective? But fwiw we never really started i guess k. Bc you have it so bad; standing where you should not be yeh?

A_Man · Dec 17, 2019

jshiii said:
I have some Catholic friends that agree with primary doctrines of Christian Churches here in the US. Our disagreements are on secondary doctrines which doesn't bother me. If they want to wear long robes in church or swing containers of incense up and down the aisles, or wear big cross symbols on their chest, so be it. As long as their sole belief and faith are in Jesus Christ and do not become a stumbling block for new christians. These same friends do not agree wholeheartedly on everything that goes on at the Vatican.

So my question is, coming from a non Catholic background, do some Catholics really support the Vatican and the Pope trying to bring together Christians + Islam, THE CHRISLAM MOVEMENT ? Or is this just the Radical Catholics? My Catholic friends do not support the Chrislam Movement, so there must be different types/levels of Catholicism?

Someone please educate me?

The Lord Jesus Christ ONLY, is Worthy of all our Praise and Worship!

I have not read the whole thread. But I have seen alarmist blogs complaining that some preacher or religious leader was trying to join with Islam for trying to have a 'dialogue' or writing a statement of common beliefs for the community or unity on some religious points. I don't think it is wrong to agree with Muslims on something, and these might be able to be used in 'spoil the Egyptian' style evangelism.

I have also heard of 'Chrislam' in the context of some extreme contextualization when it comes to missions work. I suspect Roman Catholics are too much into specific liturgical practices that are less flexible for this sort of thing-- Jesus mosques, converts bowing down in the mosques but changing the words to a prayer in Jesus' name, having converts or near converts repeat a prayer but not get baptized. I talked to one guy who was from a Muslim background who went to church, but in another location went to a mosque, became the youth director, and said he baptized a lot of young people that way. I have known of people to actually go into mosques and preach Jesus, too. It can be a very bold move.

There are all kinds of degrees of contextualization. Some evangelize using verses from the Al-Qur'an that endorse the Bible and that talk about Jesus, then start teaching what the Bible says about Jesus. Opponents of some of the more synchretized approaches call it 'Chrislam.' One preacher I heard said he called it 'Crisis'.

I saw a video about Francis leaving a girl with the impression that her atheist father would be okay in eternity. I don't think he has declared this 'ex-cathedra', but if he did, would that mean they think Protestants are damned, but not atheists? I am not aware of wishy-washiness from him on Islam, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening. I don't really follow all this stuff.

Is There Different Beliefs Among Catholics? Chrislam Movement?

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