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I quote the scriptures with quotations and also without, paraphrasing all that is written in plain language. But here after I have done so again, you say that I have no scripture. Well, that is a lie, easily proven in the posts above. One need only look for the quotation marks in my posts.
NONESENSE, put the Book chapter and verse in front of your quotation please. thanks in advanse.
If you can't, then don't.
No. As it is written, you can "Hear what the spirit says to the churches" or "hear and not perceive." It is enough.
see this is exacitly what I been saying. you said, "It does not mean that all is perfect, but rather that all who are His". for you said in post #86
question was not Noah "PERFECT?". Gen 6:9 “These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God”. Noah, was he not a descendant of Adam? And was Perfect? and in flesh.
No, Noah was not perfect as God is perfect, but rather perfect before God to do according to His will for the generations to come, meaning perfect for the task, perfect to serve. Noah was condemned and died under sin and needed salvation like any man.
Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
well our Brother Noah meet the objective because,
Take it up with Jesus who said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.", and "Most assuredly, I say to you, again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”, and John who said, "for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."
He physically rose from the dead in the world where His church remains until the end. Then, in spirit, He ascended to be with the Father. This the word from the scriptures.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
ERROR, for did he not returned in Spirit on Pentecost? is not this what you said also? ok, if his body was left here on EARTH as you said, (the resurrected one), where is it, and what is it doing? book chapter and verse please.
Yes...and then we had the fall. Followed by the OT. I'm assuming you've read and followed the general gist of the OT? After the fracturing of God's first vision for mankind, we then proved over, and over again, that we are incapable of 'being perfect as he is perfect'. Heck, most of us don't even want to try. And those of us who do, just can't keep it together. The "heros" from the OT are amazing, but they do point rather overwhelmingly to the fact that even those chosen 'faithful' of God, still fall down in a variety of ways.
You know...there is just a lot of wishy washy language there that just doesn't mean a lot. Sorry. I am completely happy to acknowledge that the bible speaks of the spiritual as well as the physical. But the spiritual is not mystical and the flesh, while weak now, is not inherently evil. It, like the earth itself, is to be redeemed. The bible puts so much hope on resurrection. On the fact that if we don't have that hope for the future, we are 'of men to be most pitied'. If we were able to be perfected, in spirit now, and that was the pinnacle of the experience, why do you suppose Paul speaks in such depths of resurrection? Why was it important for Christ to be the firstfruits of resurrection? And he was resurrected in a physical body. All orthodoxy agrees to that and is fully supported by scripture.
Well, here's the interesting thing. You might want to dismiss the flesh, but your spirit is surrounded by a meat suit just as much as anyone else's is. You can't really run away from it. So in theory you might believe you're more spiritual than other Christians, but until that time as you shed it...ie: die...you will still be subject to that which we all are: sin, sickness, death. So your preaching is a little sanctimonious I feel.
I. Don't even know what to say to the above. I don't really see it needs replying to.
I am merely following your thought through to it's logical conclusion. IF Christ's "body" is the Church, then we must understand that Christ himself is only a head. Because Paul tells us that Christ is the head of the body. No? Of course, if we're talking symbolism, then that's okay then. But if we ARE talking symbolism, then you cannot deny the bible speaks of Christ also have a physical body. Unless you want to deny all those passages that speak of him being physical.
I do allegory just fine; I'm an Amillennialist. What I object to is dismissing scriptures that have no clear or obvious reasons to be read that way. Paul's illustration of the Church 'body'? Clearly an image. All the stories about Christ's risen physical body? NOT allegory. And we know this because if any of it can be cast into allegory, then the whole resurrection is cast into doubt. And without the resurrection we are left with half a gospel. Which....mmm. Might be where you're at.
Luke 1:67Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come".
the Holy Ghost was not "poured out on ...... ALL FLESH yet" . supportive scripture, Luke 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying". was our Lord glorified then?
see "GIVEN", prement dwelling...
now, "MADE PERFECT", SCRIPTURE,
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
now are you obeying God in everything? ......................... if Iwas you, "don't answer that". but through him we are made perfect. well wthat about those before he came and obeyed? just read Hebrews 11 and being "Rightious" meaning,
G1343 δικαιοσύνη dikaiosune (d̮iy-kai-o-sï '-nee) n.
1. equity (of character or act).
2. righteousness.
3. (specially) the Righteousness ascribed by trust in Jesus.
[from G1342]
KJV: righteousness
the term "perfect" in Matthews 5:48 is G5046 τέλειος teleios (te'-lei-os) adj.
complete.
{(neuter as noun, with G3588) completeness; in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.}
[from G5056]
KJV: of full age, man, perfect
1. equity (of character or act). ................ and moral character, etc. bingo. scott, do you know what "character" means? answer "SON". it's the Greek word, G5207 huios, like in Son of man or Son of God, God like "characteristics"....
JESUS was made perfect how in the flesh? see again Heb 5:8 & 9 again.........
and let me hit you with something, the body of Christ? ..... Rom 12:5 "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another". but is not Christ the "HEAD" of the Church his .... body? and is he not in you, (the body?). this is only symbolic language for the work of the body in obediance to God himself. we're his HANDS and FEET "LITERALLY" when Christ was on the EARTH literally he didn't Go into all the world. now he, the HEAD dwells in us, now goes into all the world. for when the apostle Paul step in Rome Christ Jesus step in Rome. when the apostle Peter step in our brother Capt. Cornelius house in Acts chapter 10, Christ step there. are you getting this.
so your use of 1 Corinthians 12:27 was incorrect as for the Body of Christ. then you said,
ERROR, for did he not returned in Spirit on Pentecost? is not this what you said also? ok, if his body was left here on EARTH as you said, (the resurrected one), where is it, and what is it doing? book chapter and verse please.
now if you want to say, "oh his body is the Church", ERROR the church is being built, it did not rise, it's under ongoing construction. so you cannot use that excuse, we're speaking of the "RESURRECTED" body he was in when he told his disciple to "HANDLE" him and put their hand in his side, ...... THAT BODY, the one you said, "He physically rose from the dead in the world where His church remains until the end". yes, that BODY. thanks in advance.
PICJAG.
Your going on and on is obviously for good reason--you don't even understand from the very beginning of what is written: There was no "fracturing of God's first vision for mankind." Lacking in this very basic understanding...you have no ground for which to lecture or to presume to be wise. You are not.
