The Rapture

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Christina

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QUOTE (setfree @ Feb 19 2009, 08:50 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69473
The Bible describes a future seven-year period of unprecedented suffering and distress during which God will pour out His wrath on the earth. It will begin when Israel signs a treaty with the Antichrist, and it will end at the Second Coming. This seven-year period of time is often referred to as "the Tribulation." Revelation 6:9-11 (below)...... describes a persecution and martyrdom of saints during the first half of the seven-year Tribulation: "When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed." (Revelation 6:9-11) This persecution of the saints during the first half of the Tribulation will be carried out by "Mystery Babylon," which will be a one-world religious system during the first half of the seven-year Tribulation period: "One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries." Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus. When I saw her, I was greatly astonished." (Revelation 17:1-6) The above passage tells us that the kings of the earth will commit "spiritual adultery" with this "prostitute" (for more examples of adultery in a spiritual sense, see Jeremiah chapter 3 and Ezekiel chapter 16), which indicates that this will be a one-world religious system. This false religious system will be "drunk with the blood of the saints," which tells us that it will be responsible for a massive persecution of Christians. The Antichrist will break his treaty with Israel at the mid-point of the seven-year Tribulation period, and then he will begin a terrible persecution of the nation of Israel (as well as the Christians). According to the pre-tribulational view of the Rapture, the Rapture of the Church will happen before the seven-year Tribulation begins. According to the mid-tribulational view (and other views such as the pre-wrath and mid-wrath views), the Rapture will happen during the seven-year Tribulation period. According to the post-tribulational view, the Rapture will happen at the end of the seven-year Tribulation period as Jesus is returning to the earth at the Second Coming. I can show you why many people believe that the weight of Scriptural evidence supports the pre-trib view of the Rapture. Consider that all Christians will be "snatched up" to meet the Lord in the air when He comes for us at the Rapture, and therefore those who are "left behind" will all be unsaved. During the seven-year Tribulation there will be multitudes of people who will receive salvation, and they are all referred to as "saints" in the book of Revelation, just as Christians are referred to as "saints" (as in Ephesians 1:1), and just as all of the righteous people in Old Testament times are called "saints" (as in Psalm 30:4). Since there will be "a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language" (Revelation 7:9) who will receive salvation after the Rapture (according to the pre-trib view), how likely is it that not a single one of them had ever heard the Gospel message before the Rapture? It is more probable that many of them had rejected the Gospel before the Rapture, but then they received salvation after the Rapture. This would mean that people will have a "second chance" to receive salvation after being left behind when Jesus came back for the Church. However, those who are so hardened to the Gospel that they "refused to love the truth and so be saved" will be under a powerful delusion which will cause them to believe the Antichrist's lies (2 Thessalonians 2:10-11). Again, the Tribulation will be a seven-year period of time during which God will pour out His wrath on the earth. Multitudes of people will receive salvation during the Tribulation, but they will be persecuted by the "Mystery Babylon" religious system during the first half of the Tribulation. In addition, the Christians and the nation of Israel will be persecuted by the Antichrist during the second half of the Tribulation.
Right and wrong yes there is a seven year period of time Daniels 70th week thats called the tribulation period its dived into two halves each being 3 1/2 years long the first half starts at the End of the fifth trump when Satan gets kicked to earth. This Starts the 6th trump and is called the the first tribulation we will call it Satans tribulation (there are 2 tribulations) Antichrist comes in peacefully and prosperously he will be a man of peace He will heal the deadly Wound and most likely make a treaty he will be loved by the World he sets up a one World government (the first beast in Revelation) he will be thought to be Christ he will be winning friends influencing people putting food on every table holding revivals and the whole world follows the beast (the second beast in Rev. is Satan (antichrist) ... What is there here that you think you would resuced from ??? There is no Biblical support for any rapture here or anywhere else We now go into mid tribulation Antichrist then sets up his one World religion ... In the middle of the week (a week of years)3 1/2years (the same as 42 months) or mid week he commits the Abomination of Desolation that is standing in the holy of hollies and declaring himself to be God this is when he technically becomes the Antichrist .... He then ONLY PERSECUTES CHRISTIAN THAT WILL NOT ACCEPT HE IS CHRIST, THAT IS KNOWING WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS WE ARE TO WAIT AND WILL NOT ACCEPT THIS FAKE AS THE REAL .... Now please explain to me who these Chrisians are he is going to persicute if they are all raptured out of here ?????????Why would he persicute those that believe he is the real christ thats what he wants ...he only persicutes those who are the true church know he is a fake and refuse to follow him. THESE ARE THE OVERCOMERS THE TRUE CHURCHSo we see the church is still here ......Antichrist then kills the two wittness which God told him he could not they lie dead in the street of Jerusalem for thee Days while the whole world parties because these two trouble makers are dead ..... Then they are resurrected in the site of all the World this is the start of the second tribulation We will call it Gods tribulation this is the last trump the 7th trump ..God and his Saints the ones that are already dead that are with him (that cry out from under the Alter) come in the clouds this is Gods tribulation he is after Antichrist and all those with him ....NOT HIS TRUE CHURCH HE IS NOT HERE TO KILL US so if God is coming here to take his revenge on Satan(antichrist why would his true church be worried we are who he is coming to rescue /save ... The rapture is a stupid man made doctrine that doesnt even make sense much less did God write anything about it in his book It will not take God and Saints long to do away with Satan (antichrist) We will then all be changed into our incorubtable spirit bodies and we may rise up to meet him as we will not be flesh ... but will only a moment to meet and greet him we are going no where as he is coming here to rule as King of Kings ....
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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QUOTE (Christina @ Feb 20 2009, 01:14 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69477
QUOTE (setfree @ Feb 19 2009, 10:50 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69473
The Bible describes a future seven-year period of unprecedented suffering and distress during which God will pour out His wrath on the earth. It will begin when Israel signs a treaty with the Antichrist, and it will end at the Second Coming. This seven-year period of time is often referred to as "the Tribulation." Revelation 6:9-11 (below)...... describes a persecution and martyrdom of saints during the first half of the seven-year Tribulation: "When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed." (Revelation 6:9-11) This persecution of the saints during the first half of the Tribulation will be carried out by "Mystery Babylon," which will be a one-world religious system during the first half of the seven-year Tribulation period: "One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries." Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus. When I saw her, I was greatly astonished." (Revelation 17:1-6) The above passage tells us that the kings of the earth will commit "spiritual adultery" with this "prostitute" (for more examples of adultery in a spiritual sense, see Jeremiah chapter 3 and Ezekiel chapter 16), which indicates that this will be a one-world religious system. This false religious system will be "drunk with the blood of the saints," which tells us that it will be responsible for a massive persecution of Christians. The Antichrist will break his treaty with Israel at the mid-point of the seven-year Tribulation period, and then he will begin a terrible persecution of the nation of Israel (as well as the Christians). According to the pre-tribulational view of the Rapture, the Rapture of the Church will happen before the seven-year Tribulation begins. According to the mid-tribulational view (and other views such as the pre-wrath and mid-wrath views), the Rapture will happen during the seven-year Tribulation period. According to the post-tribulational view, the Rapture will happen at the end of the seven-year Tribulation period as Jesus is returning to the earth at the Second Coming. I can show you why many people believe that the weight of Scriptural evidence supports the pre-trib view of the Rapture. Consider that all Christians will be "snatched up" to meet the Lord in the air when He comes for us at the Rapture, and therefore those who are "left behind" will all be unsaved. During the seven-year Tribulation there will be multitudes of people who will receive salvation, and they are all referred to as "saints" in the book of Revelation, just as Christians are referred to as "saints" (as in Ephesians 1:1), and just as all of the righteous people in Old Testament times are called "saints" (as in Psalm 30:4). Since there will be "a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language" (Revelation 7:9) who will receive salvation after the Rapture (according to the pre-trib view), how likely is it that not a single one of them had ever heard the Gospel message before the Rapture? It is more probable that many of them had rejected the Gospel before the Rapture, but then they received salvation after the Rapture. This would mean that people will have a "second chance" to receive salvation after being left behind when Jesus came back for the Church. However, those who are so hardened to the Gospel that they "refused to love the truth and so be saved" will be under a powerful delusion which will cause them to believe the Antichrist's lies (2 Thessalonians 2:10-11). Again, the Tribulation will be a seven-year period of time during which God will pour out His wrath on the earth. Multitudes of people will receive salvation during the Tribulation, but they will be persecuted by the "Mystery Babylon" religious system during the first half of the Tribulation. In addition, the Christians and the nation of Israel will be persecuted by the Antichrist during the second half of the Tribulation.
Right and wrong yes there is a seven year period of time Daniels 70th week that's called the tribulation period its dived into two halves each being 3 1/2 years long the first half starts at the End of the fifth trump when Satan gets kicked to earth. This Starts the 6th trump and is called the the first tribulation we will call it Satan's tribulation (there are 2 tribulations) Antichrist comes in peacefully and prosperously he will be a man of peace He will heal the deadly Wound and most likely make a treaty he will be loved by the World he sets up a one World government (the first beast in Revelation) he will be thought to be Christ he will be winning friends influencing people putting food on every table holding revivals and the whole world follows the beast (the second beast in Rev. is Satan (Antichrist) ... What is there here that you think you would rescued from ??? There is no Biblical support for any rapture here or anywhere else We now go into mid tribulation Antichrist then sets up his one World religion ... In the middle of the week (a week of years)3 1/2years (the same as 42 months) or mid week he commits the Abomination of Desolation that is standing in the holy of hollies and declaring himself to be God this is when he technically becomes the Antichrist .... He then ONLY PERSECUTES CHRISTIAN THAT WILL NOT ACCEPT HE IS CHRIST, THAT IS KNOWING WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS WE ARE TO WAIT AND WILL NOT ACCEPT THIS FAKE AS THE REAL .... Now please explain to me who these Christians are he is going to persecute if they are all raptured out of here ?????????Why would he persecute those that believe he is the real Christ that's what he wants ...he only persecutes those who are the true church know he is a fake and refuse to follow him. THESE ARE THE OVERCOMERS THE TRUE CHURCHSo we see the church is still here ......Antichrist then kills the two witnesses which God told him he could not they lie dead in the street of Jerusalem for thee Days while the whole world parties because these two trouble makers are dead ..... Then they are resurrected in the site of all the World this is the start of the second tribulation We will call it Gods tribulation this is the last trump the 7th trump ..God and his Saints the ones that are already dead that are with him (that cry out from under the Alter) come in the clouds this is Gods tribulation he is after Antichrist and all those with him ....NOT HIS TRUE CHURCH HE IS NOT HERE TO KILL US so if God is coming here to take his revenge on Satan(antichrist why would his true church be worried we are who he is coming to rescue /save ... The rapture is a stupid man made doctrine that doesnt even make sense much less did God write anything about it in his book It will not take God and Saints long to do away with Satan (antichrist) We will then all be changed into our incorubtable spirit bodies and we may rise up to meet him as we will not be flesh ... but will only a moment to meet and greet him we are going no where as he is coming here to rule as King of Kings ....Satan, the Anti-Christ going to come peacefully? Yes...Revelation 6:4 - And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.I Thessalonians 5:3 - For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.Satan kills the two witnesses? Yes...Revelation 11:7 - And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
 

TWC

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The rapture doctrine gives people the false notion that their faith isn't going to be seriously challenged. As a result, people don't really see a need to grow stronger in their faith. Why should they? They believe they're going to get to skip the hard stuff. This would be a dangerous message even if it were actually true.
 

setfree

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QUOTE (Christina @ Feb 20 2009, 01:14 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69477
Right and wrong yes there is a seven year period of time Daniels 70th week thats called the tribulation period its dived into two halves each being 3 1/2 years long the first half starts at the End of the fifth trump when Satan gets kicked to earth. This Starts the 6th trump and is called the the first tribulation we will call it Satans tribulation (there are 2 tribulations) Antichrist comes in peacefully and prosperously he will be a man of peace He will heal the deadly Wound and most likely make a treaty he will be loved by the World he sets up a one World government (the first beast in Revelation) he will be thought to be Christ he will be winning friends influencing people putting food on every table holding revivals and the whole world follows the beast (the second beast in Rev. is Satan (antichrist) ... What is there here that you think you would resuced from ??? There is no Biblical support for any rapture here or anywhere else We now go into mid tribulation Antichrist then sets up his one World religion ... In the middle of the week (a week of years)3 1/2years (the same as 42 months) or mid week he commits the Abomination of Desolation that is standing in the holy of hollies and declaring himself to be God this is when he technically becomes the Antichrist .... He then ONLY PERSECUTES CHRISTIAN THAT WILL NOT ACCEPT HE IS CHRIST, THAT IS KNOWING WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS WE ARE TO WAIT AND WILL NOT ACCEPT THIS FAKE AS THE REAL .... Now please explain to me who these Chrisians are he is going to persicute if they are all raptured out of here ?????????Why would he persicute those that believe he is the real christ thats what he wants ...he only persicutes those who are the true church know he is a fake and refuse to follow him. THESE ARE THE OVERCOMERS THE TRUE CHURCHSo we see the church is still here ......Antichrist then kills the two wittness which God told him he could not they lie dead in the street of Jerusalem for thee Days while the whole world parties because these two trouble makers are dead ..... Then they are resurrected in the site of all the World this is the start of the second tribulation We will call it Gods tribulation this is the last trump the 7th trump ..God and his Saints the ones that are already dead that are with him (that cry out from under the Alter) come in the clouds this is Gods tribulation he is after Antichrist and all those with him ....NOT HIS TRUE CHURCH HE IS NOT HERE TO KILL US so if God is coming here to take his revenge on Satan(antichrist why would his true church be worried we are who he is coming to rescue /save ... The rapture is a stupid man made doctrine that doesnt even make sense much less did God write anything about it in his book It will not take God and Saints long to do away with Satan (antichrist) We will then all be changed into our incorubtable spirit bodies and we may rise up to meet him as we will not be flesh ... but will only a moment to meet and greet him we are going no where as he is coming here to rule as King of Kings ....
Two questions...I thought satan was kicked out of heaven when he was in the garden of Eden? does he get kicked out twice?What is there here that you think you would resuced from ??? I thought we were not to partake of the wrath of God?THESE ARE THE OVERCOMERS THE TRUE CHURCH...could the overcomers be the ones that are saved during the tribulation?The following prophecy describes a period of time which is called a "seven," the "seven" is referring to the seven-year Tribulation period. According to this prophecy, the Antichrist will desecrate the Jewish temple at the mid-point of the seven-year Tribulation by setting up "an abomination that causes desolation": "He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." (Daniel 9:27) In the next passage, Jesus said that when this "abomination that causes desolation" (Daniel 9:27, above) is standing in the Jewish temple, this will signal the beginning of a time of "great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again": "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand--then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again." (Matthew 24:15-21) The words "great distress" in the above passage are translated as "great tribulation" in some versions of the Bible. Therefore, the mid-point of the seven-year Tribulation is often referred to as the beginning of "the Great Tribulation," which will be a time of unprecedented "distress" on the earth.How long will this great trib. last?
 

Nivleos

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QUOTE (setfree @ Feb 20 2009, 04:50 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69473
The Bible describes a future seven-year period of unprecedented suffering and distress during which God will pour out His wrath on the earth. It will begin when Israel signs a treaty with the Antichrist, and it will end at the Second Coming. This seven-year period of time is often referred to as "the Tribulation." Revelation 6:9-11 (below)...... describes a persecution and martyrdom of saints during the first half of the seven-year Tribulation: "When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed." (Revelation 6:9-11) This persecution of the saints during the first half of the Tribulation will be carried out by "Mystery Babylon," which will be a one-world religious system during the first half of the seven-year Tribulation period: "One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries." Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus. When I saw her, I was greatly astonished." (Revelation 17:1-6) The above passage tells us that the kings of the earth will commit "spiritual adultery" with this "prostitute" (for more examples of adultery in a spiritual sense, see Jeremiah chapter 3 and Ezekiel chapter 16), which indicates that this will be a one-world religious system. This false religious system will be "drunk with the blood of the saints," which tells us that it will be responsible for a massive persecution of Christians. The Antichrist will break his treaty with Israel at the mid-point of the seven-year Tribulation period, and then he will begin a terrible persecution of the nation of Israel (as well as the Christians). According to the pre-tribulational view of the Rapture, the Rapture of the Church will happen before the seven-year Tribulation begins. According to the mid-tribulational view (and other views such as the pre-wrath and mid-wrath views), the Rapture will happen during the seven-year Tribulation period. According to the post-tribulational view, the Rapture will happen at the end of the seven-year Tribulation period as Jesus is returning to the earth at the Second Coming. I can show you why many people believe that the weight of Scriptural evidence supports the pre-trib view of the Rapture. Consider that all Christians will be "snatched up" to meet the Lord in the air when He comes for us at the Rapture, and therefore those who are "left behind" will all be unsaved. During the seven-year Tribulation there will be multitudes of people who will receive salvation, and they are all referred to as "saints" in the book of Revelation, just as Christians are referred to as "saints" (as in Ephesians 1:1), and just as all of the righteous people in Old Testament times are called "saints" (as in Psalm 30:4). Since there will be "a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language" (Revelation 7:9) who will receive salvation after the Rapture (according to the pre-trib view), how likely is it that not a single one of them had ever heard the Gospel message before the Rapture? It is more probable that many of them had rejected the Gospel before the Rapture, but then they received salvation after the Rapture. This would mean that people will have a "second chance" to receive salvation after being left behind when Jesus came back for the Church. However, those who are so hardened to the Gospel that they "refused to love the truth and so be saved" will be under a powerful delusion which will cause them to believe the Antichrist's lies (2 Thessalonians 2:10-11). Again, the Tribulation will be a seven-year period of time during which God will pour out His wrath on the earth. Multitudes of people will receive salvation during the Tribulation, but they will be persecuted by the "Mystery Babylon" religious system during the first half of the Tribulation. In addition, the Christians and the nation of Israel will be persecuted by the Antichrist during the second half of the Tribulation.
Firstly you can't use a '7 year' period as an actual time frame as in the Bible 7 is used to mean infinite or close to infinite so a 7 year period can be practically any size. Secondly where do you get your belief in the Rapture from, I am unsure who is right but as far as I can see there are valid points for both sides of the arguement. I don't think that the rapture is true BUT I am sure there are parts of both arguements that will be true, I think I will do my own unbiased research into the rapture to see what I can find, I will post later.
 

setfree

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In order to determine how long the Great Tribulation will last, a little background information is needed. In Daniel 4:23-25, the prophet Daniel interpreted King Nebuchadnezzar's dream by saying that the king would live with the wild animals until "seven times" had passed by. Daniel 4:32-33 says that when this prophecy came true, King Nebuchadnezzar lived with the wild animals for "seven times," and his hair grew like the feathers of an eagle and his fingernails became like the claws of a bird. Notice that seven hours or seven days would not be long enough for the king's hair and nails to grow so long. The "seven times" refers to seven years, and in fact the NIV footnote for Daniel 4:16 says that "seven times" can be translated as "seven years." In addition, Strong's Hebrew Dictionary says that the Hebrew word for "times" in these verses means "a set time; techn. a year:--time." So depending on the context, this Hebrew word for "time" can have the meaning of "year." Three chapters later in the book of Daniel, Daniel recorded a prophecy concerning the Antichrist, and he used that same Hebrew word again: "He [the Antichrist] will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time." (Daniel 7:25) The expression "a time, times and half a time" in this context... "time" refers to one year, "times" refers to two years, and "half a time" refers to half a year, so the total time period here is three and a half years. For example, here are some things that Bible scholars say about this expression: "Or a year, two years and half a year" (alternate translation in the NIV footnote for Daniel 7:25, above) "In a prophetic style as used for a year (Rev. 12:14, three and one-half years [cf. Rev. 12:6 in allusion to Dan. 7:25, where kairoi, times, also stands for two years])." (The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament, Spiros Zodhiates, p.806, emphasis added) "a time, times, and half a time. This refers to the three and one-half years of the Great Tribulation with "a time" equaling one year, "times" equaling two years, and "half a time" indicating 6 months (cf. Dan. 7:25; 12:7 with the 42 months referred to in Rev. 11:2; 13:5). References to these specific time periods show that the Great Tribulation is not the entire present Age but the three and one-half years preceding the second coming of Christ." (The Bible Knowledge Commentary, Walvoord and Zuck, Dallas Theological Seminary, p.959, emphasis added)
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (setfree @ Feb 20 2009, 08:43 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69494
QUOTE (Christina @ Feb 20 2009, 01:14 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69477
Right and wrong yes there is a seven year period of time Daniels 70th week that's called the tribulation period its dived into two halves each being 3 1/2 years long the first half starts at the End of the fifth trump when Satan gets kicked to earth. This Starts the 6th trump and is called the the first tribulation we will call it Satans tribulation (there are 2 tribulations) Antichrist comes in peacefully and prosperously he will be a man of peace He will heal the deadly Wound and most likely make a treaty he will be loved by the World he sets up a one World government (the first beast in Revelation) he will be thought to be Christ he will be winning friends influencing people putting food on every table holding revivals and the whole world follows the beast (the second beast in Rev. is Satan (antichrist) ... What is there here that you think you would rescued from ??? There is no Biblical support for any rapture here or anywhere else We now go into mid tribulation Antichrist then sets up his one World religion ... In the middle of the week (a week of years)3 1/2years (the same as 42 months) or mid week he commits the Abomination of Desolation that is standing in the holy of hollies and declaring himself to be God this is when he technically becomes the Antichrist .... He then ONLY PERSECUTES CHRISTIAN THAT WILL NOT ACCEPT HE IS CHRIST, THAT IS KNOWING WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS WE ARE TO WAIT AND WILL NOT ACCEPT THIS FAKE AS THE REAL .... Now please explain to me who these Christians are he is going to persecute if they are all raptured out of here ?????????Why would he persecute those that believe he is the real Christ that's what he wants ...he only persecutes those who are the true church know he is a fake and refuse to follow him. THESE ARE THE OVERCOMERS THE TRUE CHURCHSo we see the church is still here ......Antichrist then kills the two witnesses which God told him he could not they lie dead in the street of Jerusalem for thee Days while the whole world parties because these two trouble makers are dead ..... Then they are resurrected in the site of all the World this is the start of the second tribulation We will call it Gods tribulation this is the last trump the 7th trump ..God and his Saints the ones that are already dead that are with him (that cry out from under the Alter) come in the clouds this is Gods tribulation he is after Antichrist and all those with him ....NOT HIS TRUE CHURCH HE IS NOT HERE TO KILL US so if God is coming here to take his revenge on Satan(Antichrist why would his true church be worried we are who he is coming to rescue /save ... The rapture is a stupid man made doctrine that doesn't even make sense much less did God write anything about it in his book It will not take God and Saints long to do away with Satan (Antichrist) We will then all be changed into our incorruptible spirit bodies and we may rise up to meet him as we will not be flesh ... but will only a moment to meet and greet him we are going no where as he is coming here to rule as King of Kings ....
Two questions...I thought Satan was kicked out of heaven when he was in the garden of Eden? does he get kicked out twice?What is there here that you think you would rescued from ??? I thought we were not to partake of the wrath of God?THESE ARE THE OVERCOMERS THE TRUE CHURCH...could the overcomers be the ones that are saved during the tribulation?The following prophecy describes a period of time which is called a "seven," the "seven" is referring to the seven-year Tribulation period. According to this prophecy, the Antichrist will desecrate the Jewish temple at the mid-point of the seven-year Tribulation by setting up "an abomination that causes desolation": "He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." (Daniel 9:27) In the next passage, Jesus said that when this "abomination that causes desolation" (Daniel 9:27, above) is standing in the Jewish temple, this will signal the beginning of a time of "great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again": "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand--then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again." (Matthew 24:15-21) The words "great distress" in the above passage are translated as "great tribulation" in some versions of the Bible. Therefore, the mid-point of the seven-year Tribulation is often referred to as the beginning of "the Great Tribulation," which will be a time of unprecedented "distress" on the earth.How long will this great trib. last?No Satan was not kicked out in Heaven when he entered the Garden of Eden. As Eden, the Garden of God was locked, as I believe that Satan was suppose to guard it... but he instead wants to go on his wicked path to make Adam and Eve sin.As you can see in the book of Job, we seen Satan and his angels was in Heaven speaking to God (Job 1:6-12, Job 2:1-7) and obviously this came after Adam & Eve was kicked out of Garden of Eden.So the answer to your question... the answer is NO! Satan was not kicked out of Heaven yet.BTW, The "Great Tribulation" is Satan's tribulation... The Tribulation is 7 years, however the time Satan is going to be on Earth is 5 months. (150 days) Why 5 months? because it is shortened for the elect's sake. (Matthew 24:22, Mark 13:20)
 

setfree

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I see your point in Job and satan was in heaven after the garden.Could it be that satan lost his position in heaven and was allowed to go back and forth?How could it be that satan sinned and was allowed in heaven?The identity of the "woman" in Revelation 12:1-6 could help in determining the time of the great trib.: "A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon [the devil] with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days." (Revelation 12:1-6) In the above passage, the "dragon" is the devil (see Revelation 20:2), and I believe the woman being persecuted by the dragon in the passage above is the nation of Israel.
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (setfree @ Feb 20 2009, 12:27 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69513
I see your point in Job and satan was in heaven after the garden.Could it be that satan lost his position in heaven and was allowed to go back and forth?How could it be that satan sinned and was allowed in heaven?The identity of the "woman" in Revelation 12:1-6 could help in determining the time of the great trib.: "A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon [the devil] with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days." (Revelation 12:1-6) In the above passage, the "dragon" is the devil (see Revelation 20:2), and I believe the woman being persecuted by the dragon in the passage above is the nation of Israel.
Job 1:7 - And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.Job 2:2 - And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.No Satan did not lose his position after he successfully got Adam & Eve sin. He lost his position because Christ died at the Cross for our sins. Since then, He can not go back to Earth. He is in Heaven right now until for the appointed time... Then Satan will be kicked out of Heaven. The only thing that dwells on Earth is his evil spirits... Not Satan himself.
 

Christina

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QUOTE (setfree @ Feb 20 2009, 06:43 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69494
Two questions...I thought satan was kicked out of heaven when he was in the garden of Eden? does he get kicked out twice?What is there here that you think you would resuced from ??? I thought we were not to partake of the wrath of God?THESE ARE THE OVERCOMERS THE TRUE CHURCH...could the overcomers be the ones that are saved during the tribulation?The following prophecy describes a period of time which is called a "seven," the "seven" is referring to the seven-year Tribulation period. According to this prophecy, the Antichrist will desecrate the Jewish temple at the mid-point of the seven-year Tribulation by setting up "an abomination that causes desolation": "He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." (Daniel 9:27) In the next passage, Jesus said that when this "abomination that causes desolation" (Daniel 9:27, above) is standing in the Jewish temple, this will signal the beginning of a time of "great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again": "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand--then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again." (Matthew 24:15-21) The words "great distress" in the above passage are translated as "great tribulation" in some versions of the Bible. Therefore, the mid-point of the seven-year Tribulation is often referred to as the beginning of "the Great Tribulation," which will be a time of unprecedented "distress" on the earth.How long will this great trib. last?
Setfree If you dont get the details right you cant understand the situation you keep confusing the facts First of all you need to understand what the Abomination of desolation is in the Bible stop confusing it with what you have heard The Abomination is the deslator (Satan/Antichrist) standing in the Holy of Holies(thats on the Temple Mt. Gods holiest place on earth)he stands there and declares he is God this is an Abomination of Desolation this occurs at mid week (3 1/2 years into the tribulation) this is when he starts persicuting Christians and this time is shortened secondley I just explained in the above post that Gods wrath is the seventh trump his coming and it has nothing to do with Christians and overcomers HIS WRATH IS ON SATAN AND HIS ...NOT US wHAT does overcomer mean ?one that overcomes ........Overcomes what? .......... to be an overcomer you must overcome something .... NOT BE FLOWN AWAY TO SOME IMAGINARY Hiding place ...YOU MUST OVERCOME THE DECEPTION OF THE LIES OF ANTICHRIST ...WHAT LIES THE LIE THAT HE IS CHRIST RETURNED ..THE BIBLE SAYS HE IS SUPERNATRAL PERFORMS MIRACLES AND WONDERS ......you had better take notice of this fact in particular ... because of your ..beliefs but ill leave that for another time. and hope you get my meaning THE TRIBULATION ... SATAN WAS NEVER KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN in Eden He rebelled he was always free to come and go he could walk to and fro upon the earth he could go to heaven and earth (read Job) He has physically been held in heaven sense Christ was crusified his evil spirits roam the earth but he personally is being held in heaven untill the appointed time ... right now he is the accuser he accuses the believer night and day ...We are told the time has been shortened for the Elect sake but before we go there and muddy the water lets get the details straight of the tribulations for it will happen exactly as written rather the time is shortened or not.
 

setfree

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QUOTE (Jordan @ Feb 20 2009, 11:55 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69512
BTW, The "Great Tribulation" is Satan's tribulation... The Tribulation is 7 years, however the time Satan is going to be on Earth is 5 months. (150 days) Why 5 months? because it is shortened for the elect's sake. (Matthew 24:22, Mark 13:20)
There are several problems with that view. For one thing...the Great Tribulation will last for 1,260 days, which is a very exact timeframe. Notice that if God shortens that timeframe then the Great Tribulation will not last for 1,260 days, which would contradict Revelation 12:5-6. This makes it unlikely that God will shorten the length of the Great Tribulation. Notice what an angel did when the prophet Daniel was given some end-times prophecies: ""At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered." ... Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river [i.e. an angel], "How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?" The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed. From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days."" (Daniel 12:1,5-7,11) Where does it say that satan is locked up in heaven? Where does it say that The garden of Eden was locked up?
 

Christina

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Why do you always have to go off in some other direction setfree ?? You need to get fact ABC straight before you jump to D,E,F and G and you wonder why you still have questions after we have spent two tears trying to explain this very same thing to you and Jordan remember Precept upon precept your jumping ahead with this First we must understand the details of how the two tribulations happen then we can address these other things. And Setfree has anyone seen and Satan and very powerful Angel the most beatiful ever created walking around the earth ?????????????? The Word says he is Held in Heaven untill the Appointed time when he given the Key to the pit and Kicked out read Rev 9 -12 And then why dont you read Gen and see where the Cherb Angels were set to Guard the Gate after Adam and Eve were kicked out.
 

setfree

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QUOTE (Christina @ Feb 20 2009, 02:31 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69523
Why do you always have to go off in some other direction setfree ?? You need to get fact ABC straight before you jump to D,E,F and G and you wonder why you still have questions after we have spent two tears trying to explain this very same thing to you and Jordan remember Precept upon precept your jumping ahead with this First we must understand the details of how the two tribulations happen then we can address these other things. And Setfree has anyone seen and Satan and very powerful Angel the most beatiful ever created walking around the earth ?????????????? The Word says he is Held in Heaven untill the Appointed time when he given the Key to the pit and Kicked out read Rev 9 -12 And then why dont you read Gen and see where the Cherb Angels were set to Guard the Gate after Adam and Eve were kicked out.
I understand the angels guarding the garden after they left...to keep them from the tree of life. But I do not see Adam and Eve locked up in the garden, not aloud to leave. I ask for scriptures for this.Where in the word does it say the satan is held in heaven?QUOTE (Christina @ Feb 20 2009, 02:31 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69523
Why do you always have to go off in some other direction setfree ?? You need to get fact ABC straight before you jump to D,E,F and G and you wonder why you still have questions after we have spent two tears trying to explain this very same thing to you
You mentioned setting a foundation and teaching precept upon precept....By understanding tribulation, second coming, anti-christ, church, Israel etc. we understand end time events clearer. You have not made it plain what your ABC is...Before I can understand rapture or no rapture I am trying to understand these other mentioned items first. You mentioned two tribulations....I mentioned two..7 year trib and the great trib(last of the 7 years). I agree the Antichrist is the abomination of desolation! So what direction are you speaking of that I went off in?QUOTE (Christina @ Feb 20 2009, 01:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69518
Setfree If you dont get the details right you cant understand the situation you keep confusing the facts First of all you need to understand what the Abomination of desolation is in the Bible stop confusing it with what you have heard The Abomination is the deslator (Satan/Antichrist) standing in the Holy of Holies(thats on the Temple Mt. Gods holiest place on earth)he stands there and declares he is God this is an Abomination of Desolation this occurs at mid week (3 1/2 years into the tribulation) this is when he starts persicuting Christians and this time is shortened
Did you not read my post....I mentioned this...So I do understand this...He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." (Daniel 9:27)When Jesus returns to the earth (the Second Coming) He will set up His government, and then He will reign on earth for one thousand years. This thousand-year reign of Christ on earth is often referred to as "the Millennium." So is this correct?This period is called "the" thousand years, and notice the specific events which will happen before and after the Millennium: "and bound [satan] for a thousand years" (Revelation 20:2) "until the thousand years were ended. After that, [satan] must be set free for a short time." (Revelation 20:3) "[they] reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Revelation 20:4) "[they] did not come to life until the thousand years were ended." (Revelation 20:5) "[they] will reign with him for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:6) "When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison." (Revelation 20:7) This is unmistakably a specific block of time which has a definite beginning point and a definite ending point, and this block of time is specifically called "the" thousand years.
 

Christina

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QUOTE (setfree @ Feb 20 2009, 01:15 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69524
I understand the angels guarding the garden after they left...to keep them from the tree of life. But I do not see Adam and Eve locked up in the garden, not aloud to leave. I ask for scriptures for this.Where in the word does it say the satan is held in heaven?You mentioned setting a foundation and teaching precept upon precept....By understanding tribulation, second coming, anti-christ, church, Israel etc. we understand end time events clearer. You have not made it plain what your ABC is...Before I can understand rapture or no rapture I am trying to understand these other mentioned items first. You mentioned two tribulations....I mentioned two..7 year trib and the great trib(last of the 7 years). I agree the Antichrist is the abomination of desolation! So what direction are you speaking of that I went off in?Did you not read my post....I mentioned this...So I do understand this...He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." (Daniel 9:27)
I am not going back to Eden in this topic its off topic start an new thread if you want to discuss this And I said they were put in a Garden and there was a gate on it ... they were protected ...and as I said another topic And I never said anything about two 7 year tribulations I said there are two tribulations within the Same 7 years One is what we call the great Tribulation it is Antichrist time here on earth it the 6th trump the seven years Ends with Gods wrath upon Satn this is Gods Tribulation on Satan its the meaning of this verse Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, After what tribulation ??????? The 1st tribulation that is Antichrists (Satans ) tribulation then ....Comes Gods Wrath (God tribulation on Antichrist and his followers ) not on christiansAnd if yoyu read Satan is in heaven and ther vis a war and he is cast out read the rest of the chapterRev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (setfree @ Feb 20 2009, 03:25 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69524
I understand the angels guarding the garden after they left...to keep them from the tree of life. But I do not see Adam and Eve locked up in the garden, not aloud to leave. I ask for scriptures for this.Where in the word does it say the satan is held in heaven?You mentioned setting a foundation and teaching precept upon precept....By understanding tribulation, second coming, anti-christ, church, Israel etc. we understand end time events clearer. You have not made it plain what your ABC is...Before I can understand rapture or no rapture I am trying to understand these other mentioned items first. You mentioned two tribulations....I mentioned two..7 year trib and the great trib(last of the 7 years). I agree the Antichrist is the abomination of desolation! So what direction are you speaking of that I went off in?Did you not read my post....I mentioned this...So I do understand this...He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." (Daniel 9:27)When Jesus returns to the earth (the Second Coming) He will set up His government, and then He will reign on earth for one thousand years. This thousand-year reign of Christ on earth is often referred to as "the Millennium." So is this correct?This period is called "the" thousand years, and notice the specific events which will happen before and after the Millennium: "and bound [satan] for a thousand years" (Revelation 20:2) "until the thousand years were ended. After that, [satan] must be set free for a short time." (Revelation 20:3) "[they] reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Revelation 20:4) "[they] did not come to life until the thousand years were ended." (Revelation 20:5) "[they] will reign with him for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:6) "When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison." (Revelation 20:7) This is unmistakably a specific block of time which has a definite beginning point and a definite ending point, and this block of time is specifically called "the" thousand years.
Setfree, the "7 year tribulation" is that "Great Tribulation" and that Great Tribulation is "Satan's tribulation", however the amount of time Satan allow to stay on Earth clearly according to God Words is 5 months. (150 days) (Revelation 9:1)All you are doing is making scriptures to suit you own desire. The reason why to have a stumbling block is because you won't let go of men doctrines to hear God. It is impossible to hear God when one wants men's or their own wicked doctrine.
 

setfree

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QUOTE (Jordan @ Feb 20 2009, 11:55 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69512
No Satan was not kicked out in Heaven when he entered the Garden of Eden. As Eden, the Garden of God was locked, as I believe that Satan was suppose to guard it... but he instead wants to go on his wicked path to make Adam and Eve sin.BTW, The "Great Tribulation" is Satan's tribulation... The Tribulation is 7 years, however the time Satan is going to be on Earth is 5 months. (150 days) Why 5 months? because it is shortened for the elect's sake. (Matthew 24:22, Mark 13:20)
Christina it was Jordan that brought out that the garden was locked....that he(satan) was to guard it. I had never heard it and wanted to know where it said this. Jordan...I do not believe the tribulation will be shortened as you say...I posted why in another thread and I will explain futher why I do not believe it the way you do...In order to understand what it means for the Great Tribulation to be "cut short," let's look at Mark 13:20 again: "If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them." (Mark 13:20) This indicates that instead of allowing the Great Tribulation to continue until no-one is left alive, God has already shortened those days by decreeing that they will last for three and a half years (exactly 1,260 days). Remember, God's plans and purposes were established long before the earth was created, and the plans of the Lord stand firm forever. His purposes will be carried out exactly as He had planned them: "But the plans of the LORD stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations." (Psalms 33:11) "The LORD Almighty has sworn, "Surely, as I have planned, so it will be, and as I have purposed, so it will stand. ... For the LORD Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him? His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?" (Isaiah 14:24, 27) "Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do." (Isaiah 46:9-11) God knows "the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come" (Isaiah 46:9-11, above), and long ago He "cut short" the length of the Great Tribulation by decreeing that it will last for exactly 1,260 days. The Great Tribulation will begin at the mid-point of the seven-year Tribulation period when the Antichrist breaks his treaty with Israel and desecrates the Jewish temple, and it will last for the final three and a half years of the Tribulation until Jesus returns to the earth at the Second Coming.QUOTE (Jordan @ Feb 20 2009, 12:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69515
No Satan did not lose his position after he successfully got Adam & Eve sin. He lost his position because Christ died at the Cross for our sins. Since then, He can not go back to Earth. He is in Heaven right now until for the appointed time... Then Satan will be kicked out of Heaven. The only thing that dwells on Earth is his evil spirits... Not Satan himself.
Where does it say Satan is in heaven and can not go back to earth...because I read..."Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings." (1 Peter 5:8-9) "Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. ... In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one." (Ephesians 6:11-12,16) "I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes." (2 Corinthians 2:10-11) The devil was certainly defeated at the cross, but he is still free and active. He has not yet been locked away and sealed in the Abyss. The devil will be "bound" in the Abyss at the beginning of the thousand years (Revelation 20:2-7), showing the devil is not bound yet.
 

Christina

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Jordan and setfree Please forget the shortening for a time lets get the events straight first so people can follow what is going onThe events will unfold as written lets get them straight first that is precept upon precept concept upon concept The Events will happen as written the time frame does not effect the events if we dont get the order of events right what difference does the time frame make ?? This thread is about rapture or lack there of Not the time frame being shortened ..... You can not understand the shortening untill you understand the events ............... And setfree I do not recall Jordan ever said the gate was guarded by Satan only that it was guarded by a Cherub
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (Christina @ Feb 20 2009, 04:23 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69531
Jordan and setfree Please forget the shortening for a time lets get the events straight first so people can follow what is going onThe events will unfold as written lets get them straight first that is precept upon precept concept upon concept The Events will happen as written the time frame does not effect the events if we dont get the order of events right what difference does the time frame make ?? This thread is about rapture or lack there of Not the time frame being shortened ..... You can not understand the shortening untill you understand the events ............... And setfree I do not recall Jordan ever said the gate was guarded by Satan only that it was guarded by a Cherub
It's OK Christina, she is twisting my words like she does with God's Words and your words as well.QUOTE (Jordan @ Feb 20 2009, 11:55 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69512
...I believe that Satan was suppose to guard it... but he instead wants to go on his wicked path to make Adam and Eve sin...
Again I never said Satan guard it... he was suppose to. (using a beginner's mind set)Your right Christina, this thread is about the Rapture and once again, it can disprove in Matthew 24:29-30, Mark 13:24-26, John 16:33.Also I Corinthians 15:50-54, II Thessalonians 2, Revelation 11:15.
 

setfree

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QUOTE (Jordan @ Feb 20 2009, 04:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69534
It's OK Christina, she is twisting my words like she does with God's Words and your words as well.Again I never said Satan guard it... he was suppose to. (using a beginner's mind set)Your right Christina, this thread is about the Rapture and once again, it can disprove in Matthew 24:29-30, Mark 13:24-26, John 16:33.Also I Corinthians 15:50-54, II Thessalonians 2, Revelation 11:15.
I do not appreciate being accused of something I am not doing...You wrote...No Satan was not kicked out in Heaven when he entered the Garden of Eden. As Eden, the Garden of God was locked, as I believe that Satan was suppose to guard it... but he instead wants to go on his wicked path to make Adam and Eve sin.I did not twist your words...I questioned them because I did not understand where you got that in scripture. Then you got upset when you could not show me and accused me of twisting your words.Since it is believed by some that it is the church that is going to be raptured maybe we need to understand who is the church, the purpose and when it was created.....
 
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