Soon to be fulfilled Prophesies

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Copperhead

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Daniels people are every faithful believer, from every race, nation and language. As the NT teaches.
1 Peter 2:9-10 WE Christians are; the chosen race....claimed by God for His own...

Nope. I take a more literal approach to scripture. When they were called Daniel's people, the reference was very clear in Daniel 9 that it referred to the Hebrew people. Not any Babylonians, Syrians, or whoever might also have chosen to be God fearers.

And therein lies the problem. When one departs from a literal hermeneutic, then it enables one to fit just about anything they want into the context.

Daniel 9:24 (NKJV) "Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

The 69 weeks from the time of the decree up to the execution of the Messiah was only the Hebrew people... Daniel's people. To all of a sudden shoe horn everyone that comes to faith in Messiah as being Daniel's people of the 70th week is terrible exegesis. The 70th week pertains to Daniel's people.... the Hebrew People. Not the grafted in, not some lost tribe 2 Branch idea, not some British Israelism stuff about being the lost 10 tribes which were never lost to begin with, or any other variation on that stuff. The Body of Messiah is indeed a holy nation, royal priesthood, etc. "holy" means set apart. Jacob/Israel is also holy in that they are set apart per the covenant of Abraham. But the Body of Messiah is not the nation of Jacob/Israel.

Thinking that those who call themselves Israel and who reject Jesus, have any destiny other than that which is prophesied for them; their almost total demise, Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 22:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Romans 9:26, +, is just wrong nd only made to suit the false theory of the 'rapture' to heaven of the Church.

Agree. Those who are Christians or any other group that lays claim to some idea about now being Jacob/Israel do so to their own demise. And that is what I see Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3:9 is talking about. And Ezekiel said that Jacob/Israel would be brought back into the land initially in unbelief.

And that would be the case irregardless of a 'rapture' theory. Jacob/Israel is a unique group just like the Gentiles/Goyim is a unique group, and the Body of Messiah is a unique group comprised of redeemed of both the other groups. That in no way negates that there is still a destiny for the Hebrew people. The Covenant with Abraham and the Hebrew people is an unconditional covenant. They couldn't annul that covenant if they wanted to. It is the Lord's name that is at stake (Ezekiel 36:22). At the return of Messiah, the nations (goyim - gentiles) will be gathered and separated (Joel 3 and Matthew 25). At the return of Messiah, Jacob/Israel will be gathered and separated also (Ezekiel 20). Not an all in one, one size fits all event for all groups together. The redeemed that make up the Body of Messiah do not need to be separated. They are redeemed unto the Lord already. The same thing happens irregardless of pre, mid, pre-wrath, post, or no rapture.
 
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Copperhead

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We Christians are a continuation of the faithful believers of all time. The Jews were not 'replaced', they rejected Jesus and the Kingdom was taken from them.

Nope. The leadership of Jacob/Isreal was offered the kingdom and that offer was rejected. (Hosea 5:15 and Matthew 23:36-39). But those passages also state that Yeshua would not come back until they acknowledge that rejection, turn to Him, and petition for His return. Doesn't have anything to do with who is faithful now.

The leadership of Jacob/Israel is who rejected Yeshua and for Him to return, the corporate group of Jacob/Isreal and the leadership must acknowledge that offense before He will return.

The leadership of Jacob/Israel is who Yeshua said that the kingdom was taken from, not the Hebrew people en masse. The kingdom was taken from the vine dressers, not the vineyard. (Matthew 21:33-45)

So for the Body of Messiah or any other group to then lay claim to what belongs to the Hebrew people and claims they are no longer a elect / set apart people of the Lord is indeed replacement theology. No other way to slice it.

And the Body of Messiah did not reject Yeshua so that He returned to His place, and it is not the Body of Messiah that has to acknowledge that offense and turn to Him and petition for His return. The entire thing revolves around literal Jacob/Israel as a corporate people / nation and their leadership. Unique from both the nations / goyim / gentiles and the Body of Messiah.

And the beginning of that started in 1948.
 
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Copperhead

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Re the 144,000. They will be selected by Jesus, Revelation 14:1-7, out of the vast multitude of Christians, Revelation 7:9, who will be assigned to a tribe according to each families characteristics.

Nope. There is no justification for taking the text for anything other than what is says.....

Revelation 7:4-8 (NKJV) And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

To say that these are of the church is saying the church has replaced Israel. The text says they are of all the tribes of Israel, not assigned to tribes of Israel. Your analysis is extreme allegorization of the passage. It violates the core principle of sound Biblical hermeneutics..... "When the plain sense of a passage makes sense, then seek no other sense lest one end up with nonsense."

And that is the problem again. If one can "make it up as they go along" there is no objectivity and no standard. One ends up with exegesis that is all over the map. And Keraz, the example above is the major reason we don't agree. I have a more literal approach to exegesis, that the Lord said what He means and means what He says. And that passage was talking about 144,000 being drawn and sealed out of the 12 tribes mentioned. These are Hebrews of those 12 tribes.

Allegory is a rhetorical device used in scripture on occasion, sure. For instance...

Psalms 17:8 (NKJV) Keep me as the apple of Your eye;
Hide me under the shadow of Your wings,

The use of wings here is an obvious protective covering of the Lord. It doesn't mean that God has feathers. That short text has two different uses of allegory in it.... "apple of Your eye" and "shadow of Your wings". The passage is to be taken as allegory. But to use the same principle in the passage from Revelation 7 about the 144,000, and that is a flagrant abuse of the scripture. You cannot legitimately assign the text to those of another group.
 
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Keraz

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But to use the same principle in the passage from Revelation 7 about the 144,000, and that is a flagrant abuse of the scripture. You cannot legitimately assign the text to those of another group.
But God can make Israelites 'out of the very stones', Matthew 3:9.
He will take some of the people from every race, nation and language to be His priests and Levites. Isaiah 66:18b-21
Your contention that they have to be actual descendants of Abraham/ Jacob, is disproved by many NT teachings. Galatians 3:26-29, Romans 9:24-26

The vast multitude of Revelation 7:9, is obviously every faithful Christian person of the world. They have proved their faith by standing firm during the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal disaster, Revelation 7:14
It is perfectly logical and obvious that Jesus selects the 144,000 out of that multitude, as He stands on Mt Zion. Revelation 14:1 The Jewish people alone could not provide that many qualified people. Revelation 14:4
But I know, and you will too; of many godly Christian young people who would. THEY will receive God's Seal of His protection, as they go out in pairs to proclaim the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 66:19. As the 72 of Luke 10:1-20 did. 72+72=144 X 1000 = 144,000
 

Keraz

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Nope. The leadership of Jacob/Isreal was offered the kingdom and that offer was rejected. (Hosea 5:15 and Matthew 23:36-39). But those passages also state that Yeshua would not come back until they acknowledge that rejection, turn to Him, and petition for His return.
Hosea 5:11-15 is aimed at both Judah and Ephraim. Ephraim is the leader of the ten Northern tribes. THEY, the Western peoples have, mainly turned to the Lord as the faithful Christians.
Judah; the Jewish State of Israel has not and nowhere does the Bible say they will. How can they escape being sent to hell? Matthew 23:33
There will be a remnant of the Jews, as per Romans 9:27, who will say: Blessed is He that comes in the Name of the Lord.
the lost 10 tribes which were never lost to begin with, or any other variation on that stuff.
Jesus said the House of Israel were lost sheep. Matthew 15:24
He came to save them and was successful, as all the Christian people attest.
The House of Judah, the Jews rejected Him and remain in apostasy today. They will die for it:

Jeremiah chapter 13:1-10 Jeremiah is instructed to buy a loincloth. He is then told to hide it near a river. After a long time, he retrieved it, but it was ruined.
Jeremiah 13:11-27 Thus, I shall ruin the enormous pride of Judah, these people with stubborn hearts, who worship other gods – they will become like that cloth, no good for anything. Hosea 8:14, Jeremiah 8:5-12

......I bound all Israel and all Judah to Me, so that they should become a source of renown and praise to Me, but they did not listen. Isaiah 31:6-7

....I shall make all who live in Jerusalem drunk and insensible..... I shall show no compassion nor refrain from destroying them. Obadiah 12-16

Pay heed, be not too proud to listen, for it is the Lord who speaks.
Give glory to God, before the light that you look for turns to darkness.

If in the depths you will not listen, then weep bitterly for the Lords people are carried off into captivity. [Judah conquered by Babylon and again in AD70] Ezekiel 21:14
Say to the King and the Queen mother; take a humble seat, for your crowns have fallen. Ezekiel 21:25-27

The towns in the Negev are besieged, no one can relieve them. Judah has been swept clean away.
This is paralleled by Ezekiel 20:46-47, Isaiah 9:18-19, Jeremiah 10:18

Look up and see! Those people who are coming from the North.
The Lord’s people, all the faithful Christians; migrating to the Land. Isaiah 41:8-10, Isaiah 35:1-10, Psalms 107, +

Where is the flock that you were so proud of?
What will you say when your leaders are missing? When you wonder why this has happened? It is because of your many sins. Isaiah 3:1-3

Can a Nubian change his skin? No more can you, [Judah] do good, so accustomed are you to doing evil. Isaiah 38-9
I will scatter you like chaff, before the desert wind. Jeremiah 33:14

This is your lot – I have decreed this for you, because you have forgotten Me and trusted in false gods. I will bare your shame for all to see. Isaiah 3:16-26

For your adulteries and shameful deeds – woe to you Jerusalem. How much longer will you be unclean? Nahum 1:12-15

This is a clear prophecy about the judgement of Judah in ancient times and again, soon to happen, proved by the unfulfilled prophesies here and throughout the Bible.

Then, the Lord’s faithful Christian people will enter the Land from the North. Isaiah 49:12
They will live there, in peace and security, to prepare for the Return of Jesus. Psalms 37:29
 
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Copperhead

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But God can make Israelites 'out of the very stones', Matthew 3:9.
He will take some of the people from every race, nation and language to be His priests and Levites. Isaiah 66:18b-21
Your contention that they have to be actual descendants of Abraham/ Jacob, is disproved by many NT teachings. Galatians 3:26-29, Romans 9:24-26

Still using a circular reasoning that doesn't hold up. While indeed, within the body, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, that is not true in general. In the body, distinctions go away. But you are using it to say everyone in the body is now Hebrew. That is a gross distortion of scripture. And you can't seem to realize that Israel is the name given Jacob, so it includes all the tribes not just some spurious idea about how the rest of the world is made up of some "10 lost tribes" idea when the scripture clearly says they were never lost.
 

Copperhead

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It is perfectly logical and obvious that Jesus selects the 144,000 out of that multitude, as He stands on Mt Zion. Revelation 14:1 The Jewish people alone could not provide that many qualified people. Revelation 14:4

You are using human reasoning devoid of scriptural content. It may seem "logical" to one who thinks that the rest of the world is comprised of the "10 lost tribes", but it is not logical from scripture since they were never "lost". If the Lord wanted to imply that these 144,000 would be taken from a conglomeration of people spread throughout the world, He would have said so. Instead, He stated specifically they are taken from each of 12 tribes of Israel. It takes a convoluted gymnastics of allegorical exegesis to arrive at the idea these 144,000 are taken from a conglomeration of people and not the literal 12 tribes mentioned.
 

Copperhead

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Hosea 5:11-15 is aimed at both Judah and Ephraim. Ephraim is the leader of the ten Northern tribes. THEY, the Western peoples have, mainly turned to the Lord as the faithful Christians.
Judah; the Jewish State of Israel has not and nowhere does the Bible say they will. How can they escape being sent to hell? Matthew 23:33

Finally! A full acknowledgement of a two branch ideology which is nothing more than British Israelism on steroids. And just looking at the red highlighted portion above, it would seem a little bigoted that you did not include the Eastern peoples. You do know that much of what is taught in scripture is directly part of the formation of the Chinese script, right? The Lord is foundational to the Chinese written language... 1000 years before Buddha, Taoism, etc.


You still come from the idea that the northern tribes were lost and comprise other peoples and Judah / Benjamin are the only ones unique. The scripture is very clear that many of the northern tribes who chose to remain faithful to the Lord migrated south and joined Judah. They were carted off along with Judah and Benjamin and Levites in the Babylonian exile. Likewise, when Ezra brought back his remnant from Babylon, he called them Jews 9 times and Israel 40 times. When Nehemiah brought back his remnant, he called them Jews 11 times and Israel 22 times. The names had become interchangeable because all of the tribes were present in the return. Even in the NT, at least 4 tribes are present and accounted for by name. It is reasonable to assume that the other tribal identities are there also. Both Peter and James refer to all the tribes in the diaspora, not just 10. Even they did not see the distinction that you do. And since theirs is part of the canon of scripture and yours isn't... well, you get the idea.

And for one who writes bible studies, you really need to study more. The Lord made it very clear that all Israel (that means all Jacob, not just 10 tribes) would be saved according to Jeremiah. And it is that corporate, national acknowledgment of Him that will be the condition that must be met before He will finally return according to Hosea and Matthew.
 

Keraz

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Still using a circular reasoning that doesn't hold up. While indeed, within the body, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, that is not true in general. In the body, distinctions go away. But you are using it to say everyone in the body is now Hebrew.
I do not say that at all. Another jump to a wrong conclusion.
We Christians are the Overcomers for God, literally His spiritual Israelites, as Jacob was.
And you can't seem to realize that Israel is the name given Jacob, so it includes all the tribes not just some spurious idea about how the rest of the world is made up of some "10 lost tribes" idea when the scripture clearly says they were never lost.
Yes; Israel is all of the 12 tribes. As the Jews themselves only claim to represent Judah and Benjamin, plus maybe part of Levi, then where are the other 10?
Don't say they have rejoined as Ezekiel 37 plainly has not yet happened.
Jesus said the House of Israel, the ten Northern tribes were 'lost'. Matthew 15:24 Who are you to say they were never lost? They were dispersed amongst the nations, where they are today, but can now be identified by their faith in God and acceptance of Jesus.
He stated specifically they are taken from each of 12 tribes of Israel
The great multitude and the 144,000:
Much controversy surrounds them. Who are they and what do they do?

Revelation 7:1-8 sets an earthly scene and says that 12,000 will come from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. This is immediately followed by verses 9-14, telling about a huge crowd of people from every tribe, race, nation and language, who have just passed through a great ordeal.
This ordeal is logically and literally; the just previous, Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, that will destroy the attackers of Israel, as well as the ungodly Israelis. Many prophesies tell us that all of the holy Land will be cleared and cleansed at that time, in preparation for the establishment of a righteous nation there. Isaiah 62:1-5
A people who will be God’s witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

Revelation 14:1-5 also tells us about the 144,000. The Lord stands on Mt Zion and they are with Him. John then sees a flying angel, who is loudly proclaiming the Gospel throughout the earth.
We know that Bible prophecy is a little here, a little there, so to gain more understanding on this subject, we look at Isaiah 66:15-21, where it says the Lord will judge with fire and many will be killed by Him. After that, He will gather His people, as many prophesies clearly state; Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Jeremiah 23:3-4, +

They are people from every nation, coming on every means of transport, a huge number of people, Jeremiah 31:8-9, some of whom, God will put a sign on and will send to the nations to proclaim His Glory .
Plainly; the 144,000.

From these and other Bible prophesies, we are told that the Lord will correct the current situation of having ungodly people in His holy Land. Jeremiah 12:14 says He will uproot all of them and it will be only the righteous believers who will live there.
The Lord is foundational to the Chinese written language... 1000 years before Buddha, Taoism, etc.
There is historical and archaeological evidence of Nestorian missionaries in China, 636 AD.
However, I will concede that some of the House of Israel may have migrated Eastward, but it is sure that most went west, thru Europe, as the evidence proves.
The Lord made it very clear that all Israel (that means all Jacob, not just 10 tribes) would be saved according to Jeremiah. And it is that corporate, national acknowledgment of Him that will be the condition that must be met before He will finally return according to Hosea and Matthew.
This will happen.
But not as you think. How many more prophesies about the Lord's punishment of Judah must I post?
This is crystal clear: But of Israel, [here Paul is referring to the Jews] only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27
 

Copperhead

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Yes; Israel is all of the 12 tribes. As the Jews themselves only claim to represent Judah and Benjamin, plus maybe part of Levi, then where are the other 10?
Don't say they have rejoined as Ezekiel 37 plainly has not yet happened.
Jesus said the House of Israel, the ten Northern tribes were 'lost'. Matthew 15:24 Who are you to say they were never lost? They were dispersed amongst the nations, where they are today, but can now be identified by their faith in God and acceptance of Jesus.

I told you, if you would just look at 2 Chronicles from Chapter 11 onward, there are many instances where those of the northern tribes who chose to remain faithful to the Lord, as it went from bad to worse, migrated southward and joined with the southern kingdom of Judah. They were all together when the southern group was carted off to Babylon. There is even at least one instance in 2 Chronicles where the invitation was put out to have even more of those of the northern tribes come to Judah.... over 100 years after the Assyrian conquest of the north. So that shows that many of those tribes were still in the land.

And when Ezra brought his remnant back from Babylon, he called them Jews 9 times and Israel 40 times. And when Nehemiah brought his remnant back, he called them Jews 11 times and Israel 40 times.

It is your assumption when Yeshua said about the lost house of Israel that He meant only the northern kingdom, because you have some 2 branch theology thing going on that is clouding your vision. It is clear as a bell that at least 4 of the tribes are specifically mentioned in the NT and people associated with them present in the land of Israel, Judah, Benjamin, Levi, and Asher (one of the northern tribes), so no matter how you slice it, there is no lost 10 tribes. Based on the facts in evidence from 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, and the NT, it is more likely that Yeshua was referring to all Jacob/Israel.

And from Hosea 15, it is all the tribes (north - Ephraim and south - Judah) that cause Yeshua to return to His place. For that to be the case, both groups had to be present to reject Yeshua. And based on the evidence in the preceding paragraphs above, they were. And in the same passage of Hosea, it will be those groups that rejected Him that will petition for His return.

And the context is regarding spiritually lost. All Hebrews of all the tribes were "lost" spiritually. Yeshua came specifically for them all. It was only after the entire national leadership rejected Him and rejected the Kingdom did He then state how things would be opened up to the Gentiles. The following clearly is making the delineation between Gentiles and Hebrews.....

Matthew 15:21-24 (NKJV) Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, "Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed."
23 But He answered her not a word.
And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Did he then mean that He wasn't sent to those of Judah? Hardly. He is referencing all the tribes.

And Yeshua emphasizes this with His comment to her because she is a Gentile....

Matthew 15:26 (NKJV) But He answered and said, "It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the little dogs."

And the very same delineation was made when He sent out His disciples......

Matthew 10:5-6 (NKJV) These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Again, were they not to even talk with anyone in Judah based on your understanding of who "the lost house of Israel" is? Again, hardly. He is clearly referencing all the tribes of Jacob/Israel again. While there were Hebrews that did live among the Gentiles, those nations are still Gentile. So He tells them not to go the way of the Gentiles.... stay out of those lands and remain only in the recognized homeland of the Hebrews.... Israel.

And Yeshua is equating Judah and Israel as being the same in this event, and delineating Gentiles vs Hebrews.....

Matthew 8:8-10 (NKJV) The centurion answered and said, "Lord, I am not worthy that You should come under my roof. But only speak a word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I also am a man under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to this one, 'Go,' and he goes; and to another, 'Come,' and he comes; and to my servant, 'Do this,' and he does it."
10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, "Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!

There is no scriptural support in the NT that Yeshua ever delineated between southern kingdom and northern kingdom tribal identities. He was referencing all the tribes of Jacob / Israel and the land of Israel.

Can it really be so difficult to see that, Keraz?
 
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Keraz

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I told you, if you would just look at 2 Chronicles from Chapter 11 onward, there are many instances where those of the northern tribes who chose to remain faithful to the Lord, as it went from bad to worse, migrated southward and joined with the southern kingdom of Judah. They were all together when the southern group was carted off to Babylon. There is even at least one instance in 2 Chronicles where the invitation was put out to have even more of those of the northern tribes come to Judah.... over 100 years after the Assyrian conquest of the north. So that shows that many of those tribes were still in the land.
The Bible prophets tell of the destinies of the two Houses; Israel and Judah over 160 times.
There was some intermingling, as there still is today, but they generally remain as separate entities now. Proved by how what is prophesied to happen when they do rejoin; has not yet happened. Ezekiel 37, Jeremiah 50:4-5. +

You idea of the Jewish State of Israel being the only Israel, is scripturally impossible. The Jews are not the people the 10 Northern tribes were prophesied to be by Jacob and Moses. The Jews are not an uncountable multitude, as many as the sands of the seashore and do not posses the gates of their enemies. Genesis 22:17-18, Hosea 1:10

Here Is a prophecy by an Israelite in Assyrian captivity;
This is part of the deathbed words spoken by Tobit, who was taken into captivity by the Assyrian troops of Shalmaneser. He and his wife, Anna, were taken from the town of Thisbe, in upper Galilee, to Nineveh, the capital of Assyria.

Tobit 14:4 I know that all of Gods words will be fulfilled. It will be so, not one of them will fail. Our countrymen who live in the Land [the Jews] will all be scattered and carried off into captivity out of that good Land [the Babylonian attack] The whole of Israel’s territory with Samaria and Jerusalem will lie waste and for a time the Temple of God will be in mourning, burned and destroyed. .

Tobit 14:5 But God will have mercy on them [the House of Judah] and will bring them back to the Land. They will rebuild the Temple, yet not as it was at first, not until the time of fulfilment comes. Then all Israel will return from their captivity and rebuild Jerusalem in splendour; then indeed Gods House will be built in her as the prophets of Israel foretold.

Tobit 14:7 All the Israelites who are alive at that time and who are firm in their loyalty to God, will be brought together; they will come to Jerusalem to take possession of the Land of Abraham and will live there, securely for ever. Those who love God in sincerity will rejoice, sinners and wrongdoers will disappear from the earth.

Tobit 14:6 All the nations in the whole world will be converted to the true worship of God; they will renounce the idols which led them astray into error, and will praise the Eternal God in righteousness.

Tobit 14:8-9 Now, my children, I give you this command; serve God in truth and do what is pleasing to Him. Teach your children to do what is right and give alms, to be mindful of their Maker and praise Him sincerely.


Tobit died at the age of 112. His son, Tobias, escaped the destruction of Nineveh, by escaping to Ecbatana, in Media. Tobias lived for 117 years.


Verse 4 Tobit prophesies that the House of Judah will also be conquered and dispersed.

Verse 5 Judah returns to the Land under Ezra and Nehemiah.

King Herod rebuilds the Temple circa 50BC, then it is destroyed again, 70AD.

The third Temple is to be built by all Israel after their return. Ezekiel 43:1-12

Verse 7 The descendants of Jacob the faithful Israelites and all who are righteous believers, will enter the Promised Land, to live in peace and prosperity.

Verse 8-9 You, who are the Lord’s people; [faithful Christians] Serve Him, do what pleases Him, instruct your children in the truth, give your time and money, think on Him and praise Him with sincerity.
Reference; Revised English Bible Apocrypha.
 

Keraz

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There is no scriptural support in the NT that Yeshua ever delineated between southern kingdom and northern kingdom tribal identities. He was referencing all the tribes of Jacob / Israel and the land of Israel.
Yes He did. He put a curse on the Jews; Matthew 21:19 and took the Kingdom from them. Matthew 21:43
What is more; the Jews cursed themselves; Matthew 27:25
But the House of Israel, where the Apostles went to; Galatia, Spain and to Britain, etc, [as many historical accounts say] THEY accepted the Gospel and they are the Israel of God today.

The whole idea of a general Jewish redemption is never stated in the Bible, it is a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' theory and neither is prophesied to happen.
You quoted Matthew 8:8-10.
What about Matthew 8:11-12? Many will come from the East and West to sit with the Patriarchs at the feast of the Kingdom. But those who were born to the Kingdom will be thrown out into the dark......
 

mjrhealth

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The whole idea of a general Jewish redemption is never stated in the Bible, it is a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' theory and neither is prophesied to happen.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

I guess you missed that bit.
 

Keraz

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I guess you missed that bit.
I did not 'miss' that prophecy. It is a mistake to think that it will be the people of the current Jewish State of Israel, who will comprise the future House of Judah.

The New Covenant is made with BOTH the House's Judah and Israel, AFTER the Lord's Day of fiery wrath has cleared the holy Land. Jeremiah 31:7-14 & 31-34

Who is Judah? Those who like to call themselves Jews? Jesus said who they belonged to; Revelation 3:9
A true Jew is one who believes in God and is circumcised of the heart. Romans 2:29 The Messianic remnant, as Paul says in Romans 9:27 and the many Christian descendants of Judah and Benjamin around the world, who may not know their ancestry.

Who is Israel? Paul plainly states that we Christians are the Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16
WE are the inheritors of the Promises to the Patriarchs and ours is destiny to be the people God wants in His holy Land. Ezekiel 34:1-16, Romans 9:24-26
And we don't know our ancestry, it is God's secret, Amos 9:9, but as mainly; the Christians are people of Caucasian ethnicity and that area was where ancient Israel was exiled to, putting two and two together isn't too hard for those who don't allow false teachings to color their beliefs.
 
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mjrhealth

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Who is Israel?

Gen_49:28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them.

funny Paul did it again

Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
see the comma, He blessed Gods Israel, He did not state we where Israel,

God will save Israel its His promise to Abraham, though they must suffer much before they get there., He doesnt break His promises.
 

Copperhead

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The Bible prophets tell of the destinies of the two Houses; Israel and Judah over 160 times.
There was some intermingling, as there still is today, but they generally remain as separate entities now. Proved by how what is prophesied to happen when they do rejoin; has not yet happened. Ezekiel 37, Jeremiah 50:4-5. +

Ezekiel 37 is stating how there are no longer any division between the two groups. Both houses are one, the dry bones that have no life in them. All Israel (Jacob). When the Lord says that He will bring them back from all the nations they were scattered, He means entire Israel (Jacob). Just as when He said that He would scatter all Israel to the nations for their rebellion, Leviticus 26. the Whole House of Israel in Ezekiel 37:11. "whole" as meaning complete, unified, no more division between northern kingdom and southern kingdom.

And Israel was never a sovereign nation again from the Babylonian exile to 1948. But they are the dry bones now. They do not have the spirit of life in them.
 

Copperhead

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Yes He did. He put a curse on the Jews; Matthew 21:19 and took the Kingdom from them. Matthew 21:43

No. You presume the two branch / two house idea, but it is never represented in those passages. And Peter calls the redeemed of Messiah a holy nation. So indeed, as per Yeshua, the kingdom was taken from the leadership of Israel (Jacob) as they would not accept it, and was given to another nation (the redeemed body of Messiah). And that redeemed Body / Holy Nation was comprised only of Hebrews until Acts 10. Still leaving the only two groups left.... Hebrew and Gentile. You only assume it being taken from "Jews", house of Judah, because you fail to see the mingling of the two groups that went on before the Babylonian exile and the shown intermingling when Ezra and Nehemiah brought back their remnants.
 

Copperhead

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Who is Judah? Those who like to call themselves Jews? Jesus said who they belonged to; Revelation 3:9

That can easily be applied to those who claim to be Jews but are not... as in a replacement theology gig. Those who claim to be descended from Israel (Jacob) but are not. "Jew" and "Israel" and become synonymous terms as exampled in Ezra and Nehemiah. It become solidified during the Hasmonean period, so that by the time of the Romans, to say "Jew" or "Israel" was to mean the same thing. Only those who cling to the two branch theology wish to keep the distinction alive and claim descendency from Israel but are not, thereby at risk of being those who are condemned in Revelation 3:9 and Revelation 2:9.
 

Keraz

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That can easily be applied to those who claim to be Jews but are not... as in a replacement theology gig. Those who claim to be descended from Israel (Jacob) but are not. "Jew" and "Israel" and become synonymous terms as exampled in Ezra and Nehemiah. It become solidified during the Hasmonean period, so that by the time of the Romans, to say "Jew" or "Israel" was to mean the same thing. Only those who cling to the two branch theology wish to keep the distinction alive and claim descendency from Israel but are not, thereby at risk of being those who are condemned in Revelation 3:9 and Revelation 2:9.
I view this as a thinly veiled threat.
You attempt to make Rev 3:9 apply to me, as I do claim to be an Israelite, an Overcomer for God; by faith and probably by descent. Revelation 3:12
But as any threats from you or others whose beliefs I have challenged, carry no weight; the Lord is my Judge. James 4:11-12
No. You presume the two branch / two house idea, but it is never represented in those passages. And Peter calls the redeemed of Messiah a holy nation. So indeed, as per Yeshua, the kingdom was taken from the leadership of Israel (Jacob) as they would not accept it, and was given to another nation (the redeemed body of Messiah). And that redeemed Body / Holy Nation was comprised only of Hebrews until Acts 10. Still leaving the only two groups left.... Hebrew and Gentile. You only assume it being taken from "Jews", house of Judah, because you fail to see the mingling of the two groups that went on before the Babylonian exile and the shown intermingling when Ezra and Nehemiah brought back their remnants.
It's a bit hard to figure this out.
Do you mean the Jews of the first century were already a mixed race of people? They did have the Temple records then as proof of their descent from Judah. They were virtually all killed and enslaved by 135 AD.
But the 'Jews' of today have no proof and the historical and genetic facts prove they have little if any links to the ancient House of Judah.
The claim that the citizens of the modern State of Israel are still the chosen Israel of God, is ludicrous.
Ezekiel 37 is stating how there are no longer any division between the two groups. Both houses are one, the dry bones that have no life in them. All Israel (Jacob). When the Lord says that He will bring them back from all the nations they were scattered, He means entire Israel (Jacob). Just as when He said that He would scatter all Israel to the nations for their rebellion, Leviticus 26. the Whole House of Israel in Ezekiel 37:11. "whole" as meaning complete, unified, no more division between northern kingdom and southern kingdom.
I reiterate: the Promises of God to the whole of Israel, have not been fulfilled yet. Therefore they have not yet rejoined.
The 'dry bones' is a metaphor for not having the holy Spirit of God in them -in us. We Christians do receive a partial gift of the Spirit when we become Christian, but there is much more to come as Joel 2:28-29 says.
After this..…. Joel 2:18-27, Amos 9:13-15, Isaiah 35, Zechariah 8:1-8, +, the Lord will Bless His faithful Christian people and pour out His Spirit upon them. Ezekiel 39:29
Proved by Romans 9:24-26.....in the very place, [the holy Land] we Christians will be called the Children of the Living God.
God will save Israel its His promise to Abraham, though they must suffer much before they get there., He doesnt break His promises.
Do you know the Promises to each of the 12 tribes thru Jacob and Moses? Are the ones to the ten Northern tribes fulfilled in the Israel of today?
No; but they are to the people who are the true Israelites of God, His faithful Christian people; the vast multitude who John sees gathered in Jerusalem soon after the Sixth seal devastation has cleared and cleansed the holy Land. Revelation 7:9-14
 

mjrhealth

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I view this as a thinly veiled threat.
You attempt to make Rev 3:9 apply to me, as I do claim to be an Israelite, an Overcomer for God; by faith and probably by descent. Revelation 3:12
But as any threats from you or others whose beliefs I have challenged, carry no weight; the Lord is my Judge. James 4:11-12

It's a bit hard to figure this out.
Do you mean the Jews of the first century were already a mixed race of people? They did have the Temple records then as proof of their descent from Judah. They were virtually all killed and enslaved by 135 AD.
But the 'Jews' of today have no proof and the historical and genetic facts prove they have little if any links to the ancient House of Judah.
The claim that the citizens of the modern State of Israel are still the chosen Israel of God, is ludicrous.

I reiterate: the Promises of God to the whole of Israel, have not been fulfilled yet. Therefore they have not yet rejoined.
The 'dry bones' is a metaphor for not having the holy Spirit of God in them -in us. We Christians do receive a partial gift of the Spirit when we become Christian, but there is much more to come as Joel 2:28-29 says.
After this..…. Joel 2:18-27, Amos 9:13-15, Isaiah 35, Zechariah 8:1-8, +, the Lord will Bless His faithful Christian people and pour out His Spirit upon them. Ezekiel 39:29
Proved by Romans 9:24-26.....in the very place, [the holy Land] we Christians will be called the Children of the Living God.

Do you know the Promises to each of the 12 tribes thru Jacob and Moses? Are the ones to the ten Northern tribes fulfilled in the Israel of today?
No; but they are to the people who are the true Israelites of God, His faithful Christian people; the vast multitude who John sees gathered in Jerusalem soon after the Sixth seal devastation has cleared and cleansed the holy Land. Revelation 7:9-14
Yes I know about that, we are all grafted into the same vine, Israel and us Christans, to the Jews first... God hasnt cahnged His mind, and wont for anyman.