The Rapture

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setfree

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QUOTE (Christina @ Feb 23 2009, 04:57 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69766
MY JOB IS TO SHOW GODS SCRIPTURE AND THE TRUTH THEY SAY ................I HAVE DONE THIS ............YOUR JOB IS TO HEAR THEM ..................MY JOBS DONE .................YOURS IS NOT ................... YOU HEAR MEN OR YOU WOULD HEAR GOD ............TILL YOU STOP HEARING MEN ........GOD WORDS FALL ON DEAF EARS .......THERE IS NO PRE-TRIB RAPTURE IN THE WORDS OF YOUR FATHER .I CAN NOT SHOW YOU WHAT IS NOT THERE THERE IS ONLY THE EVENTS OF HIS SECOND COMING AT THE LAST AND 7TH TRUMP A FACT YOU DO NOT ACCEPT SO THERE IS NOTHING TO DEBATE HERE GODS WORD NOT GODS WORD ITS THAT SIMPLE http://www.christianityboard.com/index.php?showtopic=10394I could tell you he showed us in symbolism with Noah on the Ark ..that it was symbolic that he sent the Raven (the black bird) representing Satan/evil out into the World first ............before he sent out the Dove a symbol of Christ/ holy spirit showing us the truth of both comings Satan/sin then Christ it was true the first time its true the second time .. Antchrist comes before Jesus Christ but you would argure YOU CAN NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND A LITERAL BLACK AND WHITE PICTURE WHEN GOD PUTS IT IN FRONT OF YOU WHAT COULD I POSSIBLY SAY THATS ANY CLEARER THAN THAT
Then if that is how you feel then we do not have anything else to say, thanks for trying!
 

setfree

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Remember, the word "elect" has different meanings depending on the context. So in order to determine whether Israel or the Church is the "elect" in Matthew 24:29-31, let's consider the context of that passage. Recall that Jesus was a Jew living under the Old Testament Law of Moses, and He had not yet gone to the cross, and He had not yet been resurrected, and the Church did not yet exist, and there was no New Covenant or New Testament yet, and so on. Jesus was speaking to Jews (the disciples) who were still living under the Old Testament Law, and He mentioned the Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15), the Jewish prophet Daniel (Matthew 24:15), Daniel's "70 Weeks" prophecy concerning Israel's sins (Matthew 24:15), "those who are in Judea" (Matthew 24:16), the Jewish Sabbath (Matthew 24:20), and then He described the Second Coming and the "gathering" of the "elect." The entire context of these statements is Jewish in nature, and Jesus' audience of Old Testament Jews (the disciples) would have interpreted "the elect" as being the nation of Israel. They would not have interpreted "the elect" as being the Church because the Church did not yet exist, and there were not yet any "Christians," and there was not yet any New Testament teaching which described Christians as being "elect," and so on. The only "elect" group of people on earth at that time was the nation of Israel. In fact, even after the birth of the Church we still see the apostle Peter and "the apostles and the brothers throughout Judea" assuming that only the Jews were "the elect," because they were shocked when they first realized that "God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life" (Acts 10:44-11:18). So all of the evidence points to Israel as "the elect" in Matthew 24:29-31, not the Church. Now, when Jesus said that "he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other," what did this mean? To answer this question, notice that God had said that He would scatter people to "the four winds of heaven" and "the ends of the earth" and "the four quarters of the heavens" and "the four quarters of the earth," and He said that one day He will gather the Jews back to Israel with the sound of a great trumpet: "Therefore in your midst fathers will eat their children, and children will eat their fathers. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all your survivors to the winds. Therefore as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, because you have defiled my sanctuary with all your vile images and detestable practices, I myself will withdraw my favor; I will not look on you with pity or spare you. A third of your people will die of the plague or perish by famine inside you; a third will fall by the sword outside your walls; and a third I will scatter to the winds and pursue with drawn sword." (Ezekiel 5:10-12) "All his fleeing troops will fall by the sword, and the survivors will be scattered to the winds. Then you will know that I the LORD have spoken." (Ezekiel 17:21) ""Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north," declares the LORD, "for I have scattered you to the four winds of heaven," declares the LORD." (Zechariah 2:6) "I will bring against Elam the four winds from the four quarters of the heavens; I will scatter them to the four winds, and there will not be a nation where Elam's exiles do not go." (Jeremiah 49:36) "Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west. I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' and to the south, 'Do not hold them back.' Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth--everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made."" (Isaiah 43:5-7) "The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea. In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea. He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth." (Isaiah 11:1-12) "In that day the LORD will thresh from the flowing Euphrates to the Wadi of Egypt, and you, O Israelites, will be gathered up one by one. And in that day a great trumpet will sound. Those who were perishing in Assyria and those who were exiled in Egypt will come and worship the LORD on the holy mountain in Jerusalem." (Isaiah 27:12-13) Some of these passages describe the final regathering of the Jews back to Israel, accompanied by the sound of a great trumpet, and these passages are part of the Old Testament context for Jesus' statement that the angels will be involved in gathering "the elect," accompanied by the sound of a loud trumpet call. The nation of Israel will become saved immediately before the Second Coming, and then after the Second Coming all of the Jews will be gathered back to Israel. This is what Jesus was referring to in Matthew 24:29-31. The "gathering" of the Jews after the Second Coming in Matthew 24:29-31 does not refer to the Rapture, and in fact there will also be a separate gathering of the Gentiles (both saved and unsaved) after the Second Coming. Neither one of these "gatherings" is the Rapture, but instead they are gatherings of those who survived to the end of the seven-year Tribulation.
 

setfree

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All of the righteous survivors of the Tribulation will be "blessed" (Matthew 25:34, Daniel 12:11-12) by being allowed to enter into Christ's thousand-year reign of righteousness, peace, and prosperity on earth in their mortal bodies (and re-populate the earth), and all of the unrighteous survivors of the Tribulation will be weeded out and killed. Notice that this points out another big problem with the post-trib view of the Rapture. If all of the righteous survivors of the Tribulation are Raptured and made immortal at the Second Coming (as Jesus is descending down to the earth, according to the post-trib view), then who will be left on earth to enter into the Millennial Kingdom and re-populate the earth? Some post-tribbers say that it will be the unrighteous survivors of the Tribulation who will enter into the Millennium, but that is a wrong assumption because passages such as Matthew 25:34 and Daniel 12:11-12 tell us that those who enter into the Millennium are "blessed". It is unlikely that God plans to bless His enemies by allowing them into Christ's thousand-year reign of righteousness, peace, and prosperity. In fact, all of the unrighteous survivors of the Tribulation will be killed shortly after the Second Coming. So if the righteous survivors of the Tribulation will all be Raptured and made immortal at the Second Coming (according to the post-trib view), and since the unrighteous survivors of the Tribulation will all be killed before the Millennium begins, then there will be no-one left alive on earth to enter into the Millennium and re-populate the earth. This further disproves the post-trib view. The point here is that the "gathering of the elect" in Matthew 24:29-31 is not the Rapture, it is the final regathering of the Jewish survivors of the Tribulation back to the land of Israel after the Second Coming. In fact, the Greek word for "gather" in Matthew 24:29-31 is never used in the New Testament or in the Greek version of the Old Testament (the "Septuagint") in the sense of a Rapture or a resurrection, but instead it is always used for earthly gatherings of people (here are the other references: 1 Kings 18:20, 2 Chronicles 20:26, Zechariah 14:2, Matthew 23:37, Mark 1:32-34, Luke 12:1, 13:34). Now that I have discussed what I believe who the elect are...I would like to take some time to study the mystery mentioned in Denvers post.
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (setfree @ Feb 23 2009, 10:23 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69775
All of the righteous survivors of the Tribulation will be "blessed" (Matthew 25:34, Daniel 12:11-12) by being allowed to enter into Christ's thousand-year reign of righteousness, peace, and prosperity on earth in their mortal bodies (and re-populate the earth), and all of the unrighteous survivors of the Tribulation will be weeded out and killed. Notice that this points out another big problem with the post-trib view of the Rapture. If all of the righteous survivors of the Tribulation are Raptured and made immortal at the Second Coming (as Jesus is descending down to the earth, according to the post-trib view), then who will be left on earth to enter into the Millennial Kingdom and re-populate the earth? Some post-tribbers say that it will be the unrighteous survivors of the Tribulation who will enter into the Millennium, but that is a wrong assumption because passages such as Matthew 25:34 and Daniel 12:11-12 tell us that those who enter into the Millennium are "blessed". It is unlikely that God plans to bless His enemies by allowing them into Christ's thousand-year reign of righteousness, peace, and prosperity. In fact, all of the unrighteous survivors of the Tribulation will be killed shortly after the Second Coming. So if the righteous survivors of the Tribulation will all be Raptured and made immortal at the Second Coming (according to the post-trib view), and since the unrighteous survivors of the Tribulation will all be killed before the Millennium begins, then there will be no-one left alive on earth to enter into the Millennium and re-populate the earth. This further disproves the post-trib view. The point here is that the "gathering of the elect" in Matthew 24:29-31 is not the Rapture, it is the final regathering of the Jewish survivors of the Tribulation back to the land of Israel after the Second Coming. In fact, the Greek word for "gather" in Matthew 24:29-31 is never used in the New Testament or in the Greek version of the Old Testament (the "Septuagint") in the sense of a Rapture or a resurrection, but instead it is always used for earthly gatherings of people (here are the other references: 1 Kings 18:20, 2 Chronicles 20:26, Zechariah 14:2, Matthew 23:37, Mark 1:32-34, Luke 12:1, 13:34). Now that I have discussed what I believe who the elect are...I would like to take some time to study the mystery mentioned in Denvers post.
According to God's Words, There is no humans in Christ's thousand year reign. There is going to be no more re-population and having babies. Another thing, nobody is going to be killed at Christ's Second Coming. No body is going to be killed at the Millennium Reign either.
 

shepherdsword

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Hey watchman, you're "watchmen" on that OTHER forum right?I can't find where anyone responded to my previous posts. The thread is getting messy and it getting late so if someone did please tell me where to goer...I mean "where to go" as in where to find your response
tongue.gif
 

setfree

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QUOTE (Jordan @ Feb 23 2009, 10:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69777
According to God's Words, There is no humans in Christ's thousand year reign. There is going to be no more re-population and having babies. Another thing, nobody is going to be killed at Christ's Second Coming. No body is going to be killed at the Millennium Reign either.
Can you show me in the Bible where you find this? Because what I read says different....You say..."There is no humans in Christ's thousand year reign. There is going to be no more re-population and having babies." Then who are we going to rule over? With all of this security, peace, and prosperity, people's lifespans will be greatly increased (just like before the Flood when people lived into their 900's - Genesis 5:5-31): "I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more. Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed [or, "the sinner who reaches a hundred will be considered accursed," according to the NIV footnote, and according to other translations]. They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the works of their hands. They will not toil in vain or bear children doomed to misfortune; for they will be a people blessed by the LORD, they and their descendants with them. Before they call I will answer; while they are still speaking I will hear. The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD." (Isaiah 65:19-25) During the Millennium, when there will be unprecedented peace, security, prosperity, and safety (when even the wild animals are tame and harmless), people's lifespans will be dramatically increased. The above passage tells us that a person who reaches 100 years old will be considered to be a mere youth! It also says that there will no longer be any infant deaths. Comparing the above passage in several Bible translations, it appears that all of the people who will be born during the Millennium will live for at least 100 years. At this point, if they have not received salvation through faith in Christ then they will die. For everyone who receives salvation, 100 years old will be considered to be mere childhood, and they will all live out their years until the end of the Millennium. There is never any mention in the Bible of a resurrection from the dead for the righteous people after the Millennium because the resurrection of the righteous (the "first" resurrection) ended just after the Second Coming. This seems to indicate that all mortal believers will survive until the end of the thousand years. So When Christ comes at the second coming (day of wrath) He will not kill all those with satan?"I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great." Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh." (Revelation 19:17-21) So immediately after the Second Coming, we see that the Antichrist (who is referred to as the "beast" in the book of Revelation) and the false prophet and the armies of the earth will be killed, and birds will gorge themselves on their flesh. You can read (Isaiah 62:11-63:6) for an old Test. scripture. Christ will kill those that are with satan. You say...."No body is going to be killed at the Millennium Reign either."[size="4][/size]"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Revelation 20:7-10) According to this passage, the devil will be released from the Abyss at the end of the Millennium, and he will gather together a huge army of humans to make war against the Lord. If you think about it, this is shocking! At this point, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, has been physically living on earth along with the immortal saints for a thousand years, and people have experienced a time of incredible peace and prosperity and longevity such as the world has never seen before. What more proof could anyone need that God exists and that the Bible is true? And yet the devil will be able to raise a huge army of humans who are willing to do battle against the Lord! Remember, the devil will be locked away during the entire Millennium, and he will not be able to oppress or afflict anyone during that time. It is a sorry testimony to mankind's sinful, fallen state that even in the absence of the devil and in the physical presence of God, people are so rebellious that they can still be persuaded to join an army against God when the devil reappears on the scene.
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (setfree @ Feb 24 2009, 09:25 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69788
QUOTE (Jordan @ Feb 23 2009, 10:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69777
According to God's Words, There is no humans in Christ's thousand year reign. There is going to be no more re-population and having babies. Another thing, nobody is going to be killed at Christ's Second Coming. No body is going to be killed at the Millennium Reign either.
Can you show me in the Bible where you find this? Because what I read says different....You say..."There is no humans in Christ's thousand year reign. There is going to be no more re-population and having babies." Then who are we going to rule over? With all of this security, peace, and prosperity, people's lifespans will be greatly increased (just like before the Flood when people lived into their 900's - Genesis 5:5-31): "I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more. Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed [or, "the sinner who reaches a hundred will be considered accursed," according to the NIV footnote, and according to other translations]. They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the works of their hands. They will not toil in vain or bear children doomed to misfortune; for they will be a people blessed by the LORD, they and their descendants with them. Before they call I will answer; while they are still speaking I will hear. The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD." (Isaiah 65:19-25) During the Millennium, when there will be unprecedented peace, security, prosperity, and safety (when even the wild animals are tame and harmless), people's lifespans will be dramatically increased. The above passage tells us that a person who reaches 100 years old will be considered to be a mere youth! It also says that there will no longer be any infant deaths. Comparing the above passage in several Bible translations, it appears that all of the people who will be born during the Millennium will live for at least 100 years. At this point, if they have not received salvation through faith in Christ then they will die. For everyone who receives salvation, 100 years old will be considered to be mere childhood, and they will all live out their years until the end of the Millennium. There is never any mention in the Bible of a resurrection from the dead for the righteous people after the Millennium because the resurrection of the righteous (the "first" resurrection) ended just after the Second Coming. This seems to indicate that all mortal believers will survive until the end of the thousand years. So When Christ comes at the second coming (day of wrath) He will not kill all those with satan?"I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great." Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh." (Revelation 19:17-21) So immediately after the Second Coming, we see that the Antichrist (who is referred to as the "beast" in the book of Revelation) and the false prophet and the armies of the earth will be killed, and birds will gorge themselves on their flesh. You can read (Isaiah 62:11-63:6) for an old Test. scripture. Christ will kill those that are with satan. You say...."No body is going to be killed at the Millennium Reign either."[size="4][/size]"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Revelation 20:7-10) According to this passage, the devil will be released from the Abyss at the end of the Millennium, and he will gather together a huge army of humans to make war against the Lord. If you think about it, this is shocking! At this point, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, has been physically living on earth along with the immortal saints for a thousand years, and people have experienced a time of incredible peace and prosperity and longevity such as the world has never seen before. What more proof could anyone need that God exists and that the Bible is true? And yet the devil will be able to raise a huge army of humans who are willing to do battle against the Lord! Remember, the devil will be locked away during the entire Millennium, and he will not be able to oppress or afflict anyone during that time. It is a sorry testimony to mankind's sinful, fallen state that even in the absence of the devil and in the physical presence of God, people are so rebellious that they can still be persuaded to join an army against God when the devil reappears on the scene.I would give you scriptures, but I know you are going to argue and twist your Father's Word... and you are so happy to do this since I seen you. But no since doing it... I will not cast my pearls to swine.And if Christ is going to kill people at His Second Coming, why is there a need for the Millennium Reign? And if Christ is going to kill people at the Millennium Reign, why is there a Great White Throne Judgment (Judgment Day) AFTER the Millennium Reign?And if Christ is going to kill people whether at His Second Coming or at the Millennium Reign, why is nobody at all is judged by God except Satan the Devil?
 

setfree

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QUOTE (Jordan @ Feb 24 2009, 09:52 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69789
I would give you scriptures, but I know you are going to argue and twist your Father's Word... and you are so happy to do this since I seen you. But no since doing it... I will not cast my pearls to swine.And if Christ is going to kill people at His Second Coming, why is there a need for the Millennium Reign? And if Christ is going to kill people at the Millennium Reign, why is there a Great White Throne Judgment (Judgment Day) AFTER the Millennium Reign?And if Christ is going to kill people whether at His Second Coming or at the Millennium Reign, why is nobody at all is judged by God except Satan the Devil?
Jordan,You have yet to show me where I have twisted the Bible...yet you continue to make accusations. I will forgive you for calling me a swine!Now I will answer your questions with scriptures...because I do not consider you a swine...And if Christ is going to kill people at His Second Coming, why is there a need for the Millennium Reign? The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh." (Revelation 19:17-21) .....when does this take place?...who are the ones being killed and the birds eat them? He said the ones with satan were going to die!Why does the Bible say there will be a Millennium? ?????? He will rule and reign on earth......And if Christ is going to kill people at the Millennium Reign, why is there a Great White Throne Judgment (Judgment Day) AFTER the Millennium Reign?You might be confusing the judgement seat of Christ with the Great white throne judgement??? So to answer this I will have to know what you are considering the White Throne Judgement...because I see one for the saved and one for the dead in Christ???And if Christ is going to kill people whether at His Second Coming or at the Millennium Reign, why is nobody at all is judged by God except Satan the Devil? I do not know what you are asking here? The sinners will be killed and there judgement is after the 1000 years. I see more than satan being judge at the end of 1000 years..
 

Christina

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Let me ,make a few things very clear here before this continues on ..Setfree please get this because your way of track whether one is a Rapture believer or not there a couple of facts you need to get straight in your mind Now I understand well most of you average church going bible reading Christians are taught and believe in Rapture ..I do understand that as I was one of you at one time ...Most of you are not Bible scholars ...And I dont expect you to be ... But for some a little knowledge is dangerous because its out of proper context. So let me give you some important facts you need to know so when you do study you keep things in proper context. (my capitals are for emphis not yelling at anyone)1.THE ELECT: ALL OF THE ELECT WILL GO THROUGH THE TRIBULATION PERIOD ... NO ONE OF THE ELECT WILL RAPTURED WHETHER THERE YOU BELIEVE THERE IS ONE OR NOT. THE ELECT WILL BE PUT ON TRIAL BY ANTICHRIST ..THEY ARE TOLD NOT TO PREDITATE WHAT THEY WILL SAY AS THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL SPEAK THROUGH THEM ... (THINK PENECOST DAY)(MARK 13) THERE ISNT ANELECT ALIVE THAT BELIEVES IN RAPTURE ...GOD WILL NOT ALLOW HIS ELECT TO GO INTO THE TRIBULATION NOT BEING PREPARED FOR THE TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS THEY WILL ENDURE (If you are a Rapture believer you are not of the Elect) 2. THE OVERCOMERS: ARE EXACTLY WHAT IT IMPLYS THEY OVERCOME THE TRIBULATION THEY ARE WITH AND AMONG THE ELECT THEY ARE HERE BECAUSE GOD NEVER ALLOWS DARKNESS WITHOUT A LIGHT TO FOLLOW AND LEAD THE WAY TO HIM. THEY WILL REIGN AND RULE WITH CHRIST IN THE MILLIEUM (if one is raptured they are not an overcomer) 3.THE SAINTS: NO ONE HERE IS AMONG THE SAINTS THAT COME WITH CHRIST AT HIS RETURN THE SAINT THAT HE COMES WITH ARE THOSE THAT ARE ALREADY WITH HIM THEY CRY OUT FROM UNDER THE ALTER OF GOD TO BE AVENGED ....THEY HAVE EARNED A REASON TO COME WITH CHRIST TO CONQUER SATAN BECAUSE THEY ARE THOSE WHO WERE MAYRTARD FOR THE LORD (REV.6:9-12)SO IF YOU ARE ALIVE YOU ARE NOT AMONG THE SAINTS WHO ARE GIVEN THE ROBE OF SAINTHOOD THAT COME WITH CHRIST TO BE AVENGED (now I'm not saying the true church of believers are not saints Im simply saying they are not among the maytered Saints that come with Christ at his coming in the clouds to conquer Satan as they havent earned that right)So in conclsion if you believe a rapture you are not of the Elect you are not of the overcomers you are not of the saint w/Christ Now Im sure you are wondering who you are then I can give you no answer as I have said there is no rapture I know of in scripture other than after the tribulation at Christ return at the the last and 7th trump ...Now I am going to close this thread and start a new one because called Tribulation where this discussion can be picked up but this thread is getting to long and confusing.
 
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