Universalism: Where Do People Get The Idea

Giuliano said:

It is hard to underestimate the importance of loving our neighbors or brothers. God can use the love of one person to influence the fate of many. Remember how God said He was doing favors for Israel, not because they deserved it but because of Abraham? Even now, all Israel has not yet been saved, but they will be.

Amos 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

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All of Israel is saved in fact, because to be an Israel means you are a servant of God.

Only the Israelites were saved when Jesus came 2000 years ago, in fact they became the first Christians in fact. the rest of the Jews did not cut it and missed the bus, because they were duped by Satan and his mates the Talmud whore, who did nothing but undermine the Jews all through there history, they are the Golden Calf mob who tried to kill Moses in fact and are the ones Jesus warned about that controlled the Vineyard ? remember that story ! ( if you don't you are not a Christian ) as only a fool does not understand all that.

The Talmud whore is the main problem as to why the Jews do not come to Jesus Christ, they only work to lead the Jews astray, not to mention that the bastards are doing a good job in leading many Christians astray as well, with all this so called Jew idolising BS that goes on nowadays, but it's the Talmud whore that they are idolising in fact.
Not to mention that the Talmud killed most of the Jews blood line all throughout history in fact, they killed Jesus for one, not to mention are the biggest opponent to Christ Jesus that the world has ever seen in fact.

07-07-07 said:

You're still deflecting and twisting the Scriptures. Most people CHOOSE the broad road in life, so eternal damnation is their inheritance. Jesus showed mankind the narrow road that leads to eternal life, and few find it.; these few are the many who will sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

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Who's twisting things? Jesus said "many" will sit down with Abraham in Matthew 8:11 -- but you say "few." You can use the words "deflecting" and "twisting" about me, but that doesn't conceal the fact you're the person doing it. You are hilarious when you say "these few are the many."

Who gets told to "depart" in Luke 13? Do you know? Do you take it as a warning?

Luke 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

He said something similar in Matthew 7 about people who thought they were his followers.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Helen said:

Thank you...interesting reply.

The difference between us would be that I believe that God never had a Plan B...His plan A has always been in effect since before the creation of the earth. He is just finding out who of us who have trodden this earth since it's creation, will choose Him above all else. ( and be included in His wonderful plan of salvation and union with Him...

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plan B was in the making with the law
Romans 8
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Galatians 4
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
chapter 3 : 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: the law was our schoolmaster to christ came the law told us what was but could not fix sin. it took christ being born crucified and
resurrected . the resurrection was the final te finish romans 8 ; 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. resurrection power the 3rd day the stone was rolled away .so we could see in the tomb, you can say it was all plan A dont matter i just seethe stair steps all through the Bible. we wait for the ultimate plan Christ coming back could be morning night or noon. question is how many will be ready

07-07-07 said:

You're still deflecting and twisting the Scriptures.

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just strange fire what else is new

Waiting on him said:

Guess I’m a universalist also, those claiming a hell for people other than themselves... would they be considered elitists??

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No one can claim that another is going to Hell or Heaven as that's not for us to say in fact.
We may say that we think that X went to Hell or that we think that Y went to Heaven, but anyone who claims to be the authority on such as that is a fool.

Maybe they went to Purgatory ? is another point, I don't think that all merit Hell, but some will merit Hell but the ones who do not merit Hell must be in Purgatory.
Some people are just lead astray but they would come to Jesus if it was not for the workings of Satan that's all around them leading them astray 24/7 many a Christian is lost as they follow the ways of this world, they will say that they did for God, but Jesus will say that he does not know them ? they reject that narrow is the gate and that few who will find it.
Such people are good people at heart but just lost as to God, they may not have any malice to others, but one needs more than that as the righteousness of the Pharisees you must exceed.
Remember Saul a greatest of Jews, became what, now that is an example for you all.

Reggie Belafonte said:

Maybe they went to Purgatory ? is another point, I don't think that all merit Hell, but some will merit Hell but the ones who do not merit Hell must be in Purgatory.

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must be in Purgatory. nothing in scripture only assumption ----------->strange fire

VictoryinJesus said:

In Matthew 5:44-45 " But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."

And Romans 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

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This caused me to think of the parable of the talents in Matt 25...

14 "For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
And the lord gave 5 and to one, and he gave 2 talents to another...and to the other guy he gave 1. .. to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
He that had five doubled his, and he who had two doubled his...
But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

It seems to me that only two of the three had any clue of the desire and will of their lord. The third guy was clueless....he obviously did not know what was in the heart of his lord.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

To the two who had known his will and heart the lord said -Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things etc

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, ...but who told him that?? How did he come up with that? It seems that today so many take this same line concerning God...I knew thee that thou art an hard man.
Maybe because they are governed by fear and not by love?
=
25 "And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine."

"I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.."

We were once His enemies , some still are...some are still persecuting Him and His Body...yet He declares His love by commanding us to always choose love ...

Not easy every time...but I don't see that He has given us a second choice..Love or..?

Helen said:

On that we totally agree.... that which I made bold in the quote above, I don't quite agree with..whether 'or not' His divine Plan is fulfilled is not 'up for grabs' ...but the whether we individually will be a part of it, and found in the place that He has called us each to...IS very much up for grabs..

That 'to me' is what Paul is saying when he says " Make your calling and election sure..." That part of His plan is up to us...do we wish to lay it all aside and run hard after Him all the way...or will we just trust that we can coast into heaven on the shirt tails of Jesus.........that's our daily choice as I see it...

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Oh yes, of course, ...but that's always been my point, that there is a contingency upon salvation, for the reasons that I stated above. Judgement day will be based on how we followed his divine plan, it won't be depending on the mood that he is in at the time (so to speak). For me, as it seems for you too, salvation depends on our choice, ...but, according to what God has established as the requirements, ...and this, is where I'm saying that mercy will not override justice. That is, some will be rejected for not abiding by the the stipulations.
But, appreciate the paradox, his requirements already consist of mercy, for what is more merciful and gracious than the atonement of Jesus Christ?

DNB said:

requirements

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Micah 6:8
He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God?

That is, some will be rejected for not abiding by the the stipulations.

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there certainly is things we are to do . some use the word stipulations as type law /legalism

VictoryinJesus said:

will you answer one question seriously cause I’d like to know as it pertains to His church (body)? In Matthew 5:44-45 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

And Romans 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

will God give the blessing He commands to be given to those who curse? Yes or no?

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Hey, Victory! Hope you are having a good day/evening. Enjoying some football and thought I'd check in.

In answer to your question, no He will not. The key statement is v.48, "Therefore be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect." In other words, if you would wish to become adopted sons of God and enter into His inheritance with Christ, you must love even your enemies. Not that "perfect" here means "sinless." The word carries the sense of completeness, and here means that you conform yourself to the Father's image where your conduct and behavior is concerned, thereby not simply loving those who love you but loving even those who abuse and persecute you.

Why, you think what I'm saying cancels out the effects of being born of the Spirit through incorruptible seed? (I'm guessing that's what you might be driving at, but forgive me if I'm wrong). If so, James said that we are to let the word grow within us, for it has the power (i.e. is "able to") save our souls (James 1:21). The implication here is that if we do not allow the word to continue growing within us, it will die away and we will die away with it. To enter into life, we must allow the word to grow within us until it produces out from us 30, 60 and 100 fold (Mark 4:13-20).

Ezra said:

Micah 6:8
He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God?

there certainly is things we are to do . some use the word stipulations as type law /legalism

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Yes, that was the context in how I meant it. Because the argument was, will God allow all to be saved regardless of how they followed his precepts and the means to salvation. My point was, salvation is for all, ....provided that we read the disclaimer and heed the caveat.
That is, the Law of faith is the stipulation.
Christ's death was not an act of bravado, it was meant to be revered for what is was worth, and that worth is eternity.

Helen said:

This caused me to think of the parable of the talents in Matt 25...

14 "For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
And the lord gave 5 and to one, and he gave 2 talents to another...and to the other guy he gave 1. .. to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
He that had five doubled his, and he who had two doubled his...
But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

It seems to me that only two of the three had any clue of the desire and will of their lord. The third guy was clueless....he obviously did not know what was in the heart of his lord.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

To the two who had known his will and heart the lord said -Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things etc

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, ...but who told him that?? How did he come up with that? It seems that today so many take this same line concerning God...I knew thee that thou art an hard man.
Maybe because they are governed by fear and not by love?
=
25 "And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine."

"I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.."

We were once His enemies , some still are...some are still persecuting Him and His Body...yet He declares His love by commanding us to always choose love ...

Not easy every time...but I don't see that He has given us a second choice..Love or..?

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That parable reminds me of what Job said.

Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.

Hidden In Him said:

Hey, Victory! Hope you are having a good day/evening. Enjoying some football and thought I'd check in.

In answer to your question, no He will not. The key statement is v.48, "Therefore be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect." In other words, if you would wish to become adopted sons of God and enter into His inheritance with Christ, you must love even your enemies. Not that "perfect" here means "sinless." The word carries the sense of completeness, and here means that you conform yourself to the Father's image where your conduct and behavior is concerned, thereby not simply loving those who love you but loving even those who abuse and persecute you.

Why, you think what I'm saying cancels out the effects of being born of the Spirit through incorruptible seed? (I'm guessing that's what you might be driving at, but forgive me if I'm wrong). If so, James said that we are to let the word grow within us, for it has the power (i.e. is "able to") save our souls (James 1:21). The implication here is that if we do not allow the word to continue growing within us, it will die away and we will die away with it. To enter into life, we must allow the word to grow within us until it produces out from us 30, 60 and 100 fold (Mark 4:13-20).

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I’m sorry that is not what I was asking or maybe I misunderstood your reply. He said bless those who curse you. I’m asking if I curse God’s children and His children blesses me even though I curse them...will God Honour the blessing of His children toward me who curses them?

DNB said:

Christ's death was not an act of bravado, it was meant to be revered for what is was worth, and that worth is eternity.

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yes you got that i was always try to keep it it on a simple level ..some of this stuff i see posted makes me stand on my head

VictoryinJesus said:

I’m sorry that is not what I was asking or maybe I misunderstood your reply. He said bless those who curse you. I’m asking if I curse God’s children and His children blesses me even though I curse them...will God Honour the blessing of His children toward me who curses them?

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that depends on the attitude of repentance .salvation does not depend on what others do. it depends on you /us do we have Godly sorrow repentance.

VictoryinJesus said:

I’m sorry that is not what I was asking or maybe I misunderstood your reply. He said bless those who curse you. I’m asking if I curse God’s children and His children blesses me even though I curse them...will God Honour the blessing of His children toward me who curses them?

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Oh! You have to understand what He means by "bless" here. It's similar to Paul's command to "speak only that which ministers grace to the hearer." It's not like with witchcraft where a sorcerer invokes demonic spirits to see that a demonic curse is carried out. That's a different thing. This is more simply in the sense of curse as in "speak condemnations against," while bless is more in the sense of "speak good to, speak things that minister help, strength, comfort, etc." It doesn't carry a prophetically-laden component. That's something different. When scripture says a man will be cursed if he does such and such, that's referring more to divine judgments that will come from God, which is a different thing. Unless there is a strong spiritual component involved, a supernatural anointing on the words if you will, they are just mere human words of "blessing" or "cursing."

Ezra said:

yes you got that i was always try to keep it it on a simple level ..some of this stuff i see posted makes me stand on my head

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...it gets that way sometimes, ...by all of us, I imagine?

Hidden In Him said:

Unless there is a strong spiritual component involved, a supernatural anointing on the words if you will, they are just mere human words of "blessing" or "cursing."

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Read all of your response. Agree with the above only that born of God is anointed by the Head which is Christ. Doesn’t that make the blessing more than mere words? Also get what you are saying concerning the rest but would have said “bless those who curse you...bless, curse not” is Luke 23:34-35 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. [35] And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

Acts 7:59-60 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. [60] And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

the above is more of what I think of when God says to bless those who persecute you. So I asked...will God Honour the blessing?