More support there than for any alternatives. I am still waiting for scriptural support for Sunday sacredness. I am still waiting for scriptural support for Christian negligence regarding the Sabbath.
Does the day of Christ resurrection tell us to worship on Sunday?
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More support there than for any alternatives. I am still waiting for scriptural support for Sunday sacredness. I am still waiting for scriptural support for Christian negligence regarding the Sabbath.
Beautiful and so true the Sundayers are dumbfounded by this event and Scripture as evidence Gentiles observed the Sabbath, so they resort to humourless and illogical ridiculing the evidence supported by the passage, that Paul actually "as was his custom" attended the Church gathering and preached on the Sabbath. Which sort of down-playing the truth argument, just goes to show the Sundayers' total lack of support or evidence for their idolatrous alternative of Sunday-sacredness.
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I was able to find two kernels of truth among all these .. hmm difficult .. words,
1) <<Paul's doctrine is that no one is justified or made righteous by keeping ANY of God's commandments.>> Thumbs up!
2) <<To see that someone is a hypocrite doesn't negate the commandments of God.>> No thumbs up.
shnarkle
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No. it is not. I can point out that Christ himself claims that if we love him we will keep his commandments. I can even point out that most, if not all Christians will claim to love God while simultaneously admitting that they don't keep God's commandments. Look at my information. Where does it state that I am a Christian???
It's not only an assumption, but a false one as well.
You are posting one logical fallacy after another. Just because I ask a question, it doesn't then follow that I am keeping God's laws perfectly. This is pure nonsense.
Therefore, by YOUR OWN LOGIC, he is perfect. You both just walked right into that one. I don't think either one of you could fight your way out of a wet paper bag.
That is not even close to a logical conclusion. There is no such implication at all.
How do I contact another moderator? Someone needs to review why you're a moderator in the first place.
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You are assuming I was against you when I built an argument on both you guy's quotes to try and expose potential misunderstandings. Now that @mjrhealth can see your denials perhaps he will change his mind, or he could be even more confused by your armchair Christianity. I would advise him not to waste his time.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
I am not trying to impress you. All I am doing is stating the facts which you can get in any book about Autism.
BreadOfLife
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Stick to the Bible and reject Tradition??
Where does the Bible say this??
The Canon of Scripture itself is a Tradition. The Bible puts Sacred Tradition ON PAR with Scripture (2 Thess. 2:15).
Where do you get these funny ideas??
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
I notice that Helen has said Oh no not again. We have dealt with this subject ad infinitum. Perhaps it is because we are treading on someone's toes who have sundayitis every time the subject is broached. It is hard to ditch tradition for truth as we all know in the church. Change!! What for? We have been doing this for 500 years so why change it?
It makes me laugh when I read on a church notice board that this church is a bible believing church which happens to be a lie. What they believe is their interpretation of the bible. Nowhere in scripture are we told to meet on Sunday. The scripture quoted which says they met on the first day of the week does not say that in the Greek. It says they met on ONE DAY of the week.
And in Acts, it says they met every day. Don't see much of that if the church is bible-believing. Plus it says they met from house to house. We don't. We meet from building to building. The only time a building was utilized was when Paul went to a new town and spoke to the Jews in the synagogue. How many of you have turned up at the synagogue and spoke about the messiah?
As for tithing, don't get me started on that.
It makes me laugh when I read on a church notice board that this church is a bible believing church which happens to be a lie. What they believe is their interpretation of the bible. Nowhere in scripture are we told to meet on Sunday. The scripture quoted which says they met on the first day of the week does not say that in the Greek. It says they met on ONE DAY of the week.
And in Acts, it says they met every day. Don't see much of that if the church is bible-believing. Plus it says they met from house to house. We don't. We meet from building to building. The only time a building was utilized was when Paul went to a new town and spoke to the Jews in the synagogue. How many of you have turned up at the synagogue and spoke about the messiah?
As for tithing, don't get me started on that.
Christ Himself said it as well as the other inspired writers:
Matthew 15:2-3 King James Version (KJV)
2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Matthew 15:6
And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Mark 7:9
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mark 7:13
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
1 Peter 1:17-19
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Here is something I came across..Was the Sabbath kept before God gave the Ten Commandments?
The Sabbath was created at the very beginning of human history. In Genesis 2:1-3 we read that God blessed and sanctified the seventh day:
"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."
The Hebrew word translated "sanctified" in Genesis 2:3 and "hallowed" in Exodus 20:11 is qadash, a word meaning "to hallow, to pronounce holy, to consecrate, to set apart for holy use."
There is no denying that God was here setting aside the Sabbath as holy time. Is it logical to believe that God first created man, then the Sabbath, and then failed to mention to man that the seventh day was holy time? Certainly not! God must have immediately explained to Adam all about His sacred seventh day. We might say that God preached a sermon to Adam and Eve on the first Sabbath of human history, telling them how to observe His day as He wanted it to be observed.
Jonathan Edwards says in one of his sermons:
"What could be the meaning of God's resting the seventh day, and hallowing and blessing it, which He did, before the giving of the fourth commandment, unless He hallowed and blessed it with respect to mankind? . . . And it is unreasonable to suppose that He hallowed it only with respect to the Jews, a particular nation, which rose up above 2000 years after."
In Mark 2:27, Jesus says: "The Sabbath was made for man." The Greek has an article before "man," so the phrase could be rendered, "The Sabbath was made for the man." This is a likely reference to Adam, the first man and representative of the whole race that descended from him. This reasonable conclusion that Adam kept the Sabbath is held by Jewish writers.
These are sensible and logical conclusions. It is just not reasonable to think that God would make the Sabbath for man and then keep it from him for over 2000 years until Moses. So the only fair conclusion is that Adam and Even were keeping the Sabbath from the very beginning.
The very fact that the seven-day week existed, is good evidence the Sabbath also existed.
Genesis 4:2-4
King James Version (KJV)
2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
The words "in process of time" are translated from the Hebrew mikkets yamim, meaning "at the end of the days." This can only be telling us that on the Sabbath, Cain and Abel, with the rest of Adam's family, gathered to worship God. Adam Clarke says,
"it is more probable that it means the Sabbath, on which Adam and his family undoubtedly offered oblations to God, as the divine worship was certainly instituted, and no doubt the Sabbath properly observed in that family."
Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown say it was "probably on the Sabbath."
Another commentary has this to say:
"More likely this phrase denotes the Sabbath ... the end of the weekdays. And as it is plain that the Sabbath was observed as holy time since its formal institution by God in Paradise, it was doubtless kept holy by such appointments of worship as would distinguish the day."
There is nothing in nature that can be pointed to as measuring the week; only the Sabbath marks it. And only the Sabbath could come "at the end of days." Clearly, the family of Adam and Eve kept every Sabbath sacred....
The Sabbath was created at the very beginning of human history. In Genesis 2:1-3 we read that God blessed and sanctified the seventh day:
"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."
The Hebrew word translated "sanctified" in Genesis 2:3 and "hallowed" in Exodus 20:11 is qadash, a word meaning "to hallow, to pronounce holy, to consecrate, to set apart for holy use."
There is no denying that God was here setting aside the Sabbath as holy time. Is it logical to believe that God first created man, then the Sabbath, and then failed to mention to man that the seventh day was holy time? Certainly not! God must have immediately explained to Adam all about His sacred seventh day. We might say that God preached a sermon to Adam and Eve on the first Sabbath of human history, telling them how to observe His day as He wanted it to be observed.
Jonathan Edwards says in one of his sermons:
"What could be the meaning of God's resting the seventh day, and hallowing and blessing it, which He did, before the giving of the fourth commandment, unless He hallowed and blessed it with respect to mankind? . . . And it is unreasonable to suppose that He hallowed it only with respect to the Jews, a particular nation, which rose up above 2000 years after."
In Mark 2:27, Jesus says: "The Sabbath was made for man." The Greek has an article before "man," so the phrase could be rendered, "The Sabbath was made for the man." This is a likely reference to Adam, the first man and representative of the whole race that descended from him. This reasonable conclusion that Adam kept the Sabbath is held by Jewish writers.
These are sensible and logical conclusions. It is just not reasonable to think that God would make the Sabbath for man and then keep it from him for over 2000 years until Moses. So the only fair conclusion is that Adam and Even were keeping the Sabbath from the very beginning.
The very fact that the seven-day week existed, is good evidence the Sabbath also existed.
Genesis 4:2-4
King James Version (KJV)
2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
The words "in process of time" are translated from the Hebrew mikkets yamim, meaning "at the end of the days." This can only be telling us that on the Sabbath, Cain and Abel, with the rest of Adam's family, gathered to worship God. Adam Clarke says,
"it is more probable that it means the Sabbath, on which Adam and his family undoubtedly offered oblations to God, as the divine worship was certainly instituted, and no doubt the Sabbath properly observed in that family."
Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown say it was "probably on the Sabbath."
Another commentary has this to say:
"More likely this phrase denotes the Sabbath ... the end of the weekdays. And as it is plain that the Sabbath was observed as holy time since its formal institution by God in Paradise, it was doubtless kept holy by such appointments of worship as would distinguish the day."
There is nothing in nature that can be pointed to as measuring the week; only the Sabbath marks it. And only the Sabbath could come "at the end of days." Clearly, the family of Adam and Eve kept every Sabbath sacred....
All through the Bible, the first day of the week which is known as Sunday is never called the Sabbath.
Jesus never mention it in any way to include EVEN after his resurrection.
The New Testament is totally silent in regards to any change of the sabbath day or its sacredness.
The first day of the week is mentioned only eight times in the New testament. Matt. 28:1, Mark 16:2,9 Luke 24:1, John 20:1, 19, Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor. 16: 2.
Six of those texts refer to the same day.
Act 20:5-12 records only one instant where a religious meeting was held and this was at night.
The scriptural record show that no other meeting was held one this day before or after ever again.
After Christ resurrection it continue to be known and recorded in the scriptures as the first day of the week.
Jesus never mention it in any way to include EVEN after his resurrection.
The New Testament is totally silent in regards to any change of the sabbath day or its sacredness.
The first day of the week is mentioned only eight times in the New testament. Matt. 28:1, Mark 16:2,9 Luke 24:1, John 20:1, 19, Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor. 16: 2.
Six of those texts refer to the same day.
Act 20:5-12 records only one instant where a religious meeting was held and this was at night.
The scriptural record show that no other meeting was held one this day before or after ever again.
After Christ resurrection it continue to be known and recorded in the scriptures as the first day of the week.
BreadOfLife
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Claiming that Scripture condemns Tradition perverts the Word of God.
BreadOfLife
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That's what I thought - a perversion of Scripture.
Time for a Bible lesson . . .
In Matt. 15:9, Mark 7:5-9, Jesus was speaking of the Pharisees and scribes who were living hypocritical lives and placing their traditions ABOVE the word of God and the spirit of the Law. Jesus wasn't condemning ALL Tradition - only the invented traditions of the Pharisees that THEY placed above God's Law.
St. Paul tells us that we are to hold fast to the traditions taught by the Apostles – either by an “ORAL statement OR written letter” (2 Thess. 2:15).
To show how serious he is about this in the very next chapter, he goes on to say, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us” (2 Thess. 3:6).
He goes on to say in 1 Tim. 3:15, that the Church is the “pillar and foundation of truth” and the "FULLNESS of Christ" (Eph. 1:22-23).
He doesn’t say that the Bible is the pillar and foundation of truth or the fullness of Christ because it hadn’t been compiled yet and much of it hadn’t yet been written.
In one of the many passages where Jesus relayed his authority to the Apostles, he promised them that there were many things they needed to know but could not hear at that time. He also promised them that the Holy Spirit would guide his Church to ALL truth about the things that were coming (John 16:13-15).
Jesus says of His Church in Luke 10:16, “Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent me.”
He gave His Church supreme earthly Authority - that WHATEVER His Church declares on earth will also be declared in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).
When you reject Church teachings, you are really rejecting Christ, who identifies his very SELF with his Church in Acts 9:4-5.
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BreadOfLife
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Wrong.
Acts 20:7 does say "one day" in the Greek - but it says "one day after the Sabbath" (Ἐν δὲ τῇ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων).
In case you didn't know - the day after the Sabbath is SUNDAY.
BreadOfLife
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Once again - your claim perverts Scripture:
2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."
This verse equates Sacred Tradition with Scripture.
This is NOT talking about minor traditions and disciplines such as the Rosary or abstaining from meat on Fridays during Lent.
Infant Baptism is an Apostolic Tradition.
The Canon of Scripture itself is a Catholic Tradition - and proves John 16:12-15, where Jesus guaranteed that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL truth.
CharismaticLady
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@Hobie
Question about Jewish history. When did the Jews start breaking the Sabbath day and start leaving their tents where they were to remain and rest, and go out to the temple to worship?
Question about Jewish history. When did the Jews start breaking the Sabbath day and start leaving their tents where they were to remain and rest, and go out to the temple to worship?
Pilgrimer
Active Member
T
Yes. Absolutely! The death and resurrection of Jesus changed everything. The New Covenant Sabbath isn't a day of the week, it's the Day of Salvation, it is "Today, if you will hear his voice" and through faith "enter his rest," as Paul explains in Hebrews 4. The Sabbath of the Old Covenant was every bit as much a type and figure that foreshadowed something better and more eternal as the temple and the sacrifices were. God created the heavens and the earth in six days and on the seventh day he rested, not because he was weary, but because the work was finished. So too, Jesus, having been obedient to the Father even unto death by which he has forever reconciled us with the Father, with his last breath said "it is finished," commended his spirit to God, and died.
Today, this day if we are so blessed as to hear his voice, we can put or faith in Jesus and enter into the New Covenant Sabbath and rest in the finished work of Jesus to forever reconcile us with God.
In Christ,
Pilgimer
Yes. Absolutely! The death and resurrection of Jesus changed everything. The New Covenant Sabbath isn't a day of the week, it's the Day of Salvation, it is "Today, if you will hear his voice" and through faith "enter his rest," as Paul explains in Hebrews 4. The Sabbath of the Old Covenant was every bit as much a type and figure that foreshadowed something better and more eternal as the temple and the sacrifices were. God created the heavens and the earth in six days and on the seventh day he rested, not because he was weary, but because the work was finished. So too, Jesus, having been obedient to the Father even unto death by which he has forever reconciled us with the Father, with his last breath said "it is finished," commended his spirit to God, and died.
Today, this day if we are so blessed as to hear his voice, we can put or faith in Jesus and enter into the New Covenant Sabbath and rest in the finished work of Jesus to forever reconcile us with God.
In Christ,
Pilgimer
Scripture condemns Tradition that perverts the Word of God; Scripture condemns the perverter even more. As Bunyan said, "Whatever contradicts the Word of God should be instantly resisted as diabolical." ..."instantly resisted" : for what it is: "diabolical".
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