Psychological Questions about People in the Bible

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Giuliano

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I think David committed adultery in his heart...he desired another man's wife and even had him killed so he could have her....that was premeditated....he saw his sin against God because it violated the 10 commandments God gave us.
So you think David sinned against Uriah?
 

Stranger

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Neither are the words "adultery" and "murder" Scriptural when talking about David and Bathsheba.


While I would say it is impossible to sin against another person without also sinning against God -- that is not what David said. He said his only sin was against God.

(2 Samuel 12:5-9) describe adultery and murder. Scripture is clear. David was guilty of the sin of adultery and murder.

No, David said 'Against thee, thee only, have I sinned....'. And what were the sins? Adultery with Bathsheba and murder against Uriah.

Stranger
 

Giuliano

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(2 Samuel 12:5-9) describe adultery and murder. Scripture is clear. David was guilty of the sin of adultery and murder.

No, David said 'Against thee, thee only, have I sinned....'. And what were the sins? Adultery with Bathsheba and murder against Uriah.

Stranger
If that's what you believe, it's okay with me.
 

Heart2Soul

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So you think David sinned against Uriah?
I am having difficulty trying to determine how "against " is intended....David undoubtedly sinned "against" God's Commandments....he couldn't have sinned "against" Uriah's commandments because there wasn't any.
So I need to seek this out a bit more.

I did find scripture that confirms that we can sin against one another....so yes, I suppose David did commit sin against Uriah.

Just one example:
The Lords Prayer....forgive us our sins/trespasses as we forgive those who sin/trespass against us.
 
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Jay Ross

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Hello

David first sinned against God and the manifestation of him sinning against God was his adultery and murder. Nathan the prophet in telling David the story of the rich man stealing the poor man's lamb to feed his guest(s) tells us that David had turned the people also away from God and as such they committed the same sin as David with respect to God and had also turned away from God, however Nathan the Prophet did not fully understand the message that he had given King David from God. Nathan, thought that King David's adultery and causing Uriah to be killed was the understanding of the story that he had told and he went on to tell King David the consequences of his sin against God and his manifested sins against God's statutes.

As the story is related to us in the OT it would seem that the story relates to a relatively short timeframe, whereas if we read the Chronology of King David's sons, we would understand that they occurred over a much longer period of time and that the time period between when David committed his adultery with Bathsheba and the death of his first son with Bathsheba spans around 7 or so years. How do I know this? We are given this information in 1 Chron 3:1-9: -

1 Chronicles 3:1-9: - 3:1 Now these were the sons of David who were born to him in Hebron: The firstborn was Amnon, by Ahinoam the Jezreelitess; the second, Daniel, by Abigail the Carmelitess; 2 the third, Absalom the son of Maacah, the daughter of Talmai, king of Geshur; the fourth, Adonijah the son of Haggith; 3 the fifth, Shephatiah, by Abital; the sixth, Ithream, by his wife Eglah.

4 These six were born to him in Hebron. There he reigned seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned thirty-three years. 5 And these were born to him in Jerusalem: Shimea, Shobab, Nathan, and Solomon — four by Bathshua the daughter of Ammiel. 6 Also there were Ibhar, Elishama, Eliphelet, 7 Nogah, Nepheg, Japhia, 8 Elishama, Eliada, and Eliphelet — nine in all. 9 These were all the sons of David, besides the sons of the concubines, and Tamar their sister.
Now we know that Solomon was conceived when David went in to Bathsheba to console her after the death of Shimea, his first born with Bathsheba and the above chronology of King David's children tells us that Bathsheba had born two other children to David before Nathan the Prophet came and challenged David about his sin of turning away from God.

God gave King David around 7 to 8 years to repent of his sins, but when David was confronted by Nathan, David had forgotten about his sin of turning away from God and also causing the people to turn away from God as well.

David, took full responsibility for his sins and for causing the people to also turn away from God. King David's root sin was his turning away from God. That was the primary sin that God required David to repent of. The other manifested sins that were the fruit of David turning away from God, were also dealt with by God and the death of David's son, Shimea, when he was a young boy of around 6 or 7 years of ages, was God's punishment for David for his manifested sins.

When God begins to challenge us of our sin of turning away from God, we too do not always remember this sin but rather we only remember the openly committed manifested sins that came about because of our primary sin of turning away from God. The sin of turning away from God is the sin that is hidden in our hearts.

King David committed the same sin of turning away from God around three times and God came against David each time and poured out his wrath against King David each time that he had turned away from God, but God relented each time that David repented of his sin of turning away from God. The manifested sins resulting from the primary sin of turning away from God also had consequences for the nation and for King David.

King David had a heart after God's hearth and he, like God, took responsibility for all of the sins of the people plus his own. God takes responsibility for the sins of the people of the earth and has acted so that the sins of mankind can be hidden by the sacrifice that God put in place when his son also died on the cross for all of the sins of humanity.

We, as humanity, are very willing to repent of our obvious manifested sins, to God, but we find it difficult to repent of our being continually turned away from God because of Adam turning away from God.

We need to all come into a deeper understanding of what our relationship with God really is and stop putting band aids over our the festering cause of our manifested sins that we can see and relate to easily.

Shalom
 
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Heart2Soul

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Hello

David first sinned against God and the manifestation of him sinning against God was his adultery and murder. Nathan the prophet in telling David the story of the rich man stealing the poor man's lamb to feed his guest(s) tells us that David had turned the people also away from God and as such they committed the same sin as David with respect to God and had also turned away from God, however Nathan the Prophet did not fully understand the message that he had given King David from God. Nathan, thought that King David's adultery and causing Uriah to be killed was the understanding of the story that he had told and he went on to tell King David the consequences of his sin against God and his manifested sins against God's statutes.

As the story is related to us in the OT it would seem that the story relates to a relatively short timeframe, whereas if we read the Chronology of King David's sons, we would understand that they occurred over a much longer period of time and that the time period between when David committed his adultery with Bathsheba and the death of his first son with Bathsheba spans around 7 or so years. How do I know this? We are given this information in 1 Chron 3:1-9: -

1 Chronicles 3:1-9: - 3:1 Now these were the sons of David who were born to him in Hebron: The firstborn was Amnon, by Ahinoam the Jezreelitess; the second, Daniel, by Abigail the Carmelitess; 2 the third, Absalom the son of Maacah, the daughter of Talmai, king of Geshur; the fourth, Adonijah the son of Haggith; 3 the fifth, Shephatiah, by Abital; the sixth, Ithream, by his wife Eglah.

4 These six were born to him in Hebron. There he reigned seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned thirty-three years. 5 And these were born to him in Jerusalem: Shimea, Shobab, Nathan, and Solomon — four by Bathshua the daughter of Ammiel. 6 Also there were Ibhar, Elishama, Eliphelet, 7 Nogah, Nepheg, Japhia, 8 Elishama, Eliada, and Eliphelet — nine in all. 9 These were all the sons of David, besides the sons of the concubines, and Tamar their sister.
Now we know that Solomon was conceived when David went in to Bathsheba to console her after the death of Shimea, his first born with Bathsheba and the above chronology of King David's children tells us that Bathsheba had born two other children to David before Nathan the Prophet came and challenged David about his sin of turning away from God.

God gave King David around 7 to 8 years to repent of his sins, but when David was confronted by Nathan, David had forgotten about his sin of turning away from God and also causing the people to turn away from God as well.

David, took full responsibility for his sins and for causing the people to also turn away from God. King David's root sin was his turning away from God. That was the primary sin that God required David to repent of. The other manifested sins that were the fruit of David turning away from God, were also dealt with by God and the death of David's son, Shimea, when he was a young boy of around 6 or 7 years of ages, was God's punishment for David for his manifested sins.

When God begins to challenge us of our sin of turning away from God, we too do not always remember this sin but rather we only remember the openly committed manifested sins that came about because of our primary sin of turning away from God. The sin of turning away from God is the sin that is hidden in our hearts.

King David committed the same sin of turning away from God around three times and God came against David each time and poured out his wrath against King David each time that he had turned away from God, but God relented each time that David repented of his sin of turning away from God. The manifested sins resulting from the primary sin of turning away from God also had consequences for the nation and for King David.

King David had a heart after God's hearth and he, like God, took responsibility for all of the sins of the people plus his own. God takes responsibility for the sins of the people of the earth and has acted so that the sins of mankind can be hidden by the sacrifice that God put in place when his son also died on the cross for all of the sins of humanity.

We, as humanity, are very willing to repent of our obvious manifested sins, to God, but we find it difficult to repent of our being continually turned away from God because of Adam turning away from God.

We need to all come into a deeper understanding of what our relationship with God really is and stop putting band aids over our the festering cause of our manifested sins that we can see and relate to easily.

Shalom

I enjoyed reading this and it actually brought back to my mind the time I turned away from God after my husband died. I am not there now, but I am guilty of only seeing the "fruit" of my sin from turning away...I am definitely going to discuss this with Him in prayer and repent of this in case it is still out there and I hadn't repented in the past....

Which this brings up another question....can a person just pray an "umbrella" prayer of repentance for ALL their sins or do they have to address each one individually? I ask because I would pray the Lord's Prayer...(forgive me my sins and those who sin against me}....but I always felt like I was being lazy. I can't really find it in scripture that we have to name each sin...and I am sure I have sinned against someone and didn't even realize it......so just praying and repenting of all my sins and asking forgiveness in one lump sum seemed to cover all of them.
 

farouk

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I enjoyed reading this and it actually brought back to my mind the time I turned away from God after my husband died. I am not there now, but I am guilty of only seeing the "fruit" of my sin from turning away...I am definitely going to discuss this with Him in prayer and repent of this in case it is still out there and I hadn't repented in the past....

Which this brings up another question....can a person just pray an "umbrella" prayer of repentance for ALL their sins or do they have to address each one individually? I ask because I would pray the Lord's Prayer...(forgive me my sins and those who sin against me}....but I always felt like I was being lazy. I can't really find it in scripture that we have to name each sin...and I am sure I have sinned against someone and didn't even realize it......so just praying and repenting of all my sins and asking forgiveness in one lump sum seemed to cover all of them.
We can be so grateful for the working of grace...

Romans 2 has significant things to say about repentance; it's linked with the very goodness of God...
 
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Jay Ross

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I enjoyed reading this and it actually brought back to my mind the time I turned away from God after my husband died. I am not there now, but I am guilty of only seeing the "fruit" of my sin from turning away...I am definitely going to discuss this with Him in prayer and repent of this in case it is still out there and I hadn't repented in the past....

Which this brings up another question....can a person just pray an "umbrella" prayer of repentance for ALL their sins or do they have to address each one individually? I ask because I would pray the Lord's Prayer...(forgive me my sins and those who sin against me}....but I always felt like I was being lazy. I can't really find it in scripture that we have to name each sin...and I am sure I have sinned against someone and didn't even realize it......so just praying and repenting of all my sins and asking forgiveness in one lump sum seemed to cover all of them.

I am not sure that I am the right person who can answer this question for you, as I know very little about you and you characteristics and actions in your life. A person who know you intimately on a daily basis, i.e. your friends etc., who exhibit a closeness with God may be better able to respond to your question, concerning your level of righteousness.

Many people measure the saintly level of a person, by the counting of the manifested sins that they do during their lifetime. The fewer manifested sins that the person keeps committing, the more saintly that person must be.

How does God measure how saintly we are? By the manner by which we express the heart of God in our lives as we live out our faith in Him.

Does this then mean that we will no longer sin? No. But if we do not repent of turning away from God when we realise that we are manifesting sin because we have turned away from God then even if we repent of our manifested sins, it does not redeem us of our sin of turning away from God. The main sign, as I understand it, is that when we turn away from God we begin to act God like. The best example of this, that is easily identified within our various communities, is road rage. The level of road rage in our communities demonstrates how far we have turned away from God and assumed the role of a "god" in our lives.

Do I measure up? No. But 1 am walking the length and breath of God's earth/kingdom knowing that if I continue to walk the length and breath of God's kingdom on the earth to the best of my ability walking hand in hand with God within God's earth, then I also know that He will give me as my inheritance, the whole earth at some time in the future, be it a distant future at this present time, and that I will be with Him ever after, after receiving my inheritance. (If you read Gen 13 you can read about God's promise to Abraham within this context.)

Shalom
 
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brakelite

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I enjoyed reading this and it actually brought back to my mind the time I turned away from God after my husband died. I am not there now, but I am guilty of only seeing the "fruit" of my sin from turning away...I am definitely going to discuss this with Him in prayer and repent of this in case it is still out there and I hadn't repented in the past....

Which this brings up another question....can a person just pray an "umbrella" prayer of repentance for ALL their sins or do they have to address each one individually? I ask because I would pray the Lord's Prayer...(forgive me my sins and those who sin against me}....but I always felt like I was being lazy. I can't really find it in scripture that we have to name each sin...and I am sure I have sinned against someone and didn't even realize it......so just praying and repenting of all my sins and asking forgiveness in one lump sum seemed to cover all of them.
When I was first converted my prayer was a lump sum prayer. Please Lord, forgive me for the way I have lived my life without you, and make my life one you can approve of. Amen.
I was 25 yo and lying on my back in bed looking up at a black ceiling. Then the Spirit of God... Jesus... Angels... Whatever... Came into my room and hugged me. Told me I was loved and that life would never be the same again... And told me that for the following 3 or 4 hours until I fell asleep with a wet pillow and a huge smile. When I awoke in the morning I was a different person.
  • But I housed some (I say some because swearing and cursing seemingly vanished overnight) very bad habits that I needed to repent of individually before God took them away... And smoking cigarettes took a couple of years because it took that long for me to decide I didn't want to smoke. But my first prayer was a repentance for general rebellion. God then revealed, over the following 42 years and still counting, certain character traits... Sins.... Attitudes... Habits and even addictions that I didn't even know I had. But over time He revealed to me the kind of person I truly was... And the kind of person He wanted me to be... And the kind of person He had the power to make me if I wanted. A man approved.
 
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Heart2Soul

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When I was first converted my prayer was a lump sum prayer. Please Lord, forgive me for the way I have lived my life without you, and make my life one you can approve of. Amen.
I was 25 yo and lying on my back in bed looking up at a black ceiling. Then the Spirit of God... Jesus... Angels... Whatever... Came into my room and hugged me. Told me I was loved and that life would never be the same again... And told me that for the following 3 or 4 hours until I fell asleep with a wet pillow and a huge smile. When I awoke in the morning I was a different person.
  • But I housed some (I say some because swearing and cursing seemingly vanished overnight) very bad habits that I needed to repent of individually before God took them away... And smoking cigarettes took a couple of years because it took that long for me to decide I didn't want to smoke. But my first prayer was a repentance for general rebellion. God then revealed, over the following 42 years and still counting, certain character traits... Sins.... Attitudes... Habits and even addictions that I didn't even know I had. But over time He revealed to me the kind of person I truly was... And the kind of person He wanted me to be... And the kind of person He had the power to make me if I wanted. A man approved.
Such a beautiful testimony! Praise God!
 
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Heart2Soul

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I am not sure that I am the right person who can answer this question for you, as I know very little about you and you characteristics and actions in your life. A person who know you intimately on a daily basis, i.e. your friends etc., who exhibit a closeness with God may be better able to respond to your question, concerning your level of righteousness.

Many people measure the saintly level of a person, by the counting of the manifested sins that they do during their lifetime. The fewer manifested sins that the person keeps committing, the more saintly that person must be.

How does God measure how saintly we are? By the manner by which we express the heart of God in our lives as we live out our faith in Him.

Does this then mean that we will no longer sin? No. But if we do not repent of turning away from God when we realise that we are manifesting sin because we have turned away from God then even if we repent of our manifested sins, it does not redeem us of our sin of turning away from God. The main sign, as I understand it, is that when we turn away from God we begin to act God like. The best example of this, that is easily identified within our various communities, is road rage. The level of road rage in our communities demonstrates how far we have turned away from God and assumed the role of a "god" in our lives.

Do I measure up? No. But 1 am walking the length and breath of God's earth/kingdom knowing that if I continue to walk the length and breath of God's kingdom on the earth to the best of my ability walking hand in hand with God within God's earth, then I also know that He will give me as my inheritance, the whole earth at some time in the future, be it a distant future at this present time, and that I will be with Him ever after, after receiving my inheritance. (If you read Gen 13 you can read about God's promise to Abraham within this context.)

Shalom
Thanks for your input....I am probably okay either way when I pray and repent...He knows what I have in my heart...and the Holy Spirit can reveal anything hidden.
God Bless!
 

GTW27

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I enjoyed reading this and it actually brought back to my mind the time I turned away from God after my husband died. I am not there now, but I am guilty of only seeing the "fruit" of my sin from turning away...I am definitely going to discuss this with Him in prayer and repent of this in case it is still out there and I hadn't repented in the past....

Which this brings up another question....can a person just pray an "umbrella" prayer of repentance for ALL their sins or do they have to address each one individually? I ask because I would pray the Lord's Prayer...(forgive me my sins and those who sin against me}....but I always felt like I was being lazy. I can't really find it in scripture that we have to name each sin...and I am sure I have sinned against someone and didn't even realize it......so just praying and repenting of all my sins and asking forgiveness in one lump sum seemed to cover all of them.

This is one I pray a lot "Father, forgive my sins and wash me clean. Cover me in the Blood you shed at Calvary upon that cross. This I ask in Jesus Holy Name." Amen.
 
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Heart2Soul

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This is one I pray a lot "Father, forgive my sins and wash me clean. Cover me in the Blood you shed at Calvary upon that cross. This I ask in Jesus Holy Name." Amen.
Yes, that's about what I pray. Jesus wasn't into too much "wordy" prayers...He simply wanted us to be quick to repent...and He gave us the model prayer we should pray.
 

Jay Ross

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Thanks for your input....I am probably okay either way when I pray and repent...He knows what I have in my heart...and the Holy Spirit can reveal anything hidden.
God Bless!

It seems to me that your reply is thanks but no thanks. The Genesis 13 reference needs to be read and understood from the original Hebrew context where Abraham was promised that if he walked the earth, the length and the breadth of it, that he would inherit God's earth. Sadly, the translations have corrupted that understanding and so we "Christians" only inherit the earth while Abraham, whom we are grafted into, only inherits the "Promised Land." If our understanding is based on a corrupt interpretation/understanding of the Abrahamic Covenant, then we are behind the black ball and therefore have snookered ourselves such that we cannot see/play any of the other balls on the table without playing an illegal shot and the consequences are that we will then "lose" the game.

If we have false understandings/interpretation of the source texts of the translations, we cannot see the rest of the balls in play when we are snookered behind the black ball.

How blindsided we all are, is what drives a lot of the discussion on this forum, and it can become heated when our pet theories are questioned or shown to have an Achilles heel.

When we are in the very centre of our predicaments of sin, it is very hard to see the root cause for them.

A friend of mine would tell me that if I speed in my car that the "angels" would leave me during that time.

Speeding is not really a sin, but the reason, that I do speed, is. So I can confess of the "speeding" "sin(s)" but If I do not recognise the "sin" which drove me to speed, and repent of that sin, then I will continue to commit the sin of "speeding" in my car and will not be able to stop that particular sin. As a youngster I would often drive at three time the speed limit, but now, some 50 years later, I have slowed down and have no real desire to "speed" in my car. In fact, I have to control the speed that my car will go at so that I am not speeding because of the power of the motor which is needed to pull a camper trailer when we are touring the country up north in winter as a grey nomad.

Paul exalted us to renew our mind and to then put on the renewed/refurbished personhood that God intended us to be since the beginning of time. It is the putting on of the renewed/refurbished personhood that God intended us to be that is the hardest thing for us to do and can take years to achieve, but God does not stop drawing us to Himself even when we are stubborn, and this is something that I know from my own experience.

Shalom
 

Heart2Soul

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It seems to me that your reply is thanks but no thanks. The Genesis 13 reference needs to be read and understood from the original Hebrew context where Abraham was promised that if he walked the earth, the length and the breadth of it, that he would inherit God's earth. Sadly, the translations have corrupted that understanding and so we "Christians" only inherit the earth while Abraham, whom we are grafted into, only inherits the "Promised Land." If our understanding is based on a corrupt interpretation/understanding of the Abrahamic Covenant, then we are behind the black ball and therefore have snookered ourselves such that we cannot see/play any of the other balls on the table without playing an illegal shot and the consequences are that we will then "lose" the game.

If we have false understandings/interpretation of the source texts of the translations, we cannot see the rest of the balls in play when we are snookered behind the black ball.

How blindsided we all are, is what drives a lot of the discussion on this forum, and it can become heated when our pet theories are questioned or shown to have an Achilles heel.

When we are in the very centre of our predicaments of sin, it is very hard to see the root cause for them.

A friend of mine would tell me that if I speed in my car that the "angels" would leave me during that time.

Speeding is not really a sin, but the reason, that I do speed, is. So I can confess of the "speeding" "sin(s)" but If I do not recognise the "sin" which drove me to speed, and repent of that sin, then I will continue to commit the sin of "speeding" in my car and will not be able to stop that particular sin. As a youngster I would often drive at three time the speed limit, but now, some 50 years later, I have slowed down and have no real desire to "speed" in my car. In fact, I have to control the speed that my car will go at so that I am not speeding because of the power of the motor which is needed to pull a camper trailer when we are touring the country up north in winter as a grey nomad.

Paul exalted us to renew our mind and to then put on the renewed/refurbished personhood that God intended us to be since the beginning of time. It is the putting on of the renewed/refurbished personhood that God intended us to be that is the hardest thing for us to do and can take years to achieve, but God does not stop drawing us to Himself even when we are stubborn, and this is something that I know from my own experience.

Shalom
I wasn't meaning thanks but no thanks...It was because of what you said that made me think it was okay to just repent of my sins without naming them specifically unless the Holy Spirit reveals a specific one to me.