But, if a person is one of His sheep hearing His voice and follows Him, what risk is there?
"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:4
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No one can see the Kingdom of God unless...
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"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:4
And your way, the way of the mind of a man of flesh, has figured it all out? Do you not believe that the Pharisees and Sadducees who opposed Jesus so strongly knew what was written in scripture as well any other men? Yet... you will certainly admit they did not really know God. They were like Saul of Tarsis before he met Jesus on the road to Damascus... the very man later called Paul who wrote most of the NT.
"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Prov 14:12
And what was they said about Jesus?
"And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils." Mark 3:21-22
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Wow....hard to conceive that you said He wasn't even alive before He was born. But here are the verses that says He was....
John 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. (Reference Genesis 1)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
So these first 5 verses establish Jesus as being present from the beginning.....verse 14 is where we come to understand that the Word was made flesh.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Notice verse 10....He was in the world from the beginning of creation.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
How interesting this verse was for me.....as many as received him, to them gave he power to become sons of God.
Jesus appearance in the OT in the fiery pit with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego is referred to as like a son of God ......
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are figures from chapter 3 of the Book of Daniel, three Hebrew men thrown into a fiery furnace by Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, when they refuse to bow down to the king's image; the three are preserved from harm and the king sees four men walking in the flames......Look! he answered, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God (Daniel 3:25).
Heart2Soul, you're entering a mystical realm that you'll never be able to comprehend, explain, or apply in any manner. It's absolutely flaky nonsense that you're professing.[/QUOTE]
If it wasn't for the fact that I have pity on you for your unbelief I would be offended, however I am not taking offense.....but I do pray that you will seek a deeper truth....and I pray the the Spirit of Truth (the Holy Spirit) will come to you and open your eyes to see, your ears to hear, and your heart to receive by faith.
The Gospel of Christ, including Paul's conversion, are rational events. We all understand the purpose and the significance behind their message & occurrences, and each one of us can explain it enough, to lead one to salvation. Although Paul's conversion was a phenomenal event, there is no question that it was Christ who spoke to him, and we see the purpose behind it, and what it led to. Paul had a dramatic turn-around, and became the most effective Apostle of them all. Thus, glory all around for God & Christ. No ambiguity, no mystery, no subjective interpretation.
I believe in all the miracles, dreams, visions and prophecies of the Bible, and I believe that these gifts are still available today, to the devout, humble and faithful.
BUT, people, stop fantasizing. Stop interpreting every thought that passes through your mind, every single whimsical or stressful dream that occurs, as a sign from God. You're not as blessed as you like to think that you are. ...but I wish that you were, for if God is communicating with you as much as you say that he is, I have got a lot of Biblical questions that I'd like to ask you, so that I can finally get some doctrinal issues resolved.
Can anyone affirm that much for me?
...well, i doubt that he would appreciate the constant comparison between me & him, how's that?
ScottA
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If I may interject.
@marks
"That day", that Judgement Day, if it is of God it is not of the world, and therefore not within the times of the world. So...of course, you are correct, no one is in heaven until after. But that does not mean that the whole matter is therefore within the times of this world...not at all. It means that, as Paul said, "that day" referred to all throughout the scriptures, comes to each person, "each in his own order", meaning, in his own time. But that does not mean that "that day" is the point of entering into heaven...but rather, the exiting from the world.
So, we can look to the times of the world, or to the events of God not within the realm of time, but in the realm and kingdom of God; but to mix them is to mix darkness with light, which have no communion. This is what is biblical, which is what is meant by "rightly dividing the word of truth."
In that light then...all things in the world that point to or are visions or revelations of heaven and the kingdom of God; where it seems reasonable to consider that these things proceed Judgement, they do not, for the kingdom was before the world, and God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Therefore, in the only reality that can be defended biblically, time is merely an act of revelation, and we are last to know. Or, properly stated: all of this (including visions)...is the reading of the will, the opening of the books.
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That's fine H2S, but again, I wasn't calling you flaky or full of nonsense, I like most of your posts, but this eternal Jesus nonsense is completely unacceptable. As far as John 1 goes, look up the word antanaclasis, this you should've discerned on your own. The literary convention being used in John's 1st chapter is quite clear.
Son of man is used throughout the Bible, how many times was Ezekial or Daniel called the Son of Man? Again, you should know this already and not make wild conjectures about pre-existent humans. This type of talk gives Christians a bad name, this is why the Jews & Muslims won't convert, they think that we're all a bunch of mystics and blasphemers.
Hyper-literal exegesis always leads to incompatible or implausible doctrine. You've entered a realm that you'll never be able to resolve, or glorify God with.
ScottA
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No...this is wrong, not biblical. You are categorically denying the "I am" of Christ, who was "before" Abraham.
You will have to do much better than that if you want to postulate the existence of an eternal human. Much, much better. Do you not understand biblical hermeneutics or sound exegesis? You take this one awkward phrase, and come up with an unprecedented and implausible notion, just like that? Again, the Jews & Muslims are mocking this incompetence and irreverence.
Its very much like a movie editor, already filmed it all, seeing the beginning and the end, now just doing the final cut to reveal it all. And to through a spanner in the works, that is why I know i am saved, because He has already seeing it. As far as God is concerned it is already done, i just have to wit till my part in the movie is over.
Waiting on him
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1 Corinthians 4:18-21 KJV
[18] Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you. [19] But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. [20] For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. [21] What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?
Paul says it’s something he can know, you can witness this power within someone.
What do you believe this power is?
Tecarta Bible
Waiting on him
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Waiting on him
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Psalm 145:11-13 KJV
[11] They shall speak of the glory of thy kingdom, and talk of thy power; [12] To make known to the sons of men his mighty acts, and the glorious majesty of his kingdom. [13] Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.
Tecarta Bible
[11] They shall speak of the glory of thy kingdom, and talk of thy power; [12] To make known to the sons of men his mighty acts, and the glorious majesty of his kingdom. [13] Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.
Tecarta Bible
Yes, you're right, it was just an expression. But, you're right, I affirmed that I didn't have the Holy Spirit, therefore, nothing to argue, ...unless, someone knows better (difficult Biblical passages about this)?
That's true, it doesn't say 'Son of Man', but it neither says, reliably, 'Son of God'.
Only KJV, and a few others, says 'Son of God'. The majority of translations say otherwise, they give it a more generic sense which it deserves.
Because, this is Nebuchadnezzar speaking, he's describing something that he doesn't fully understand, therefore, his opinion is not definitive as to what he saw. What he saw was angelic in appearance, thus his description elicits loosely a spiritual entity, as opposed to a secular one.
You're being very frivolous with your exegesis, thus eisegesis.
If you want to start professing an eternal human, or that someone lived before they were born, do you not feel it incumbent upon yourself to do better than to quote a single verse or two? Plus, to offer verses that are more didactic and explicit in nature, rather than these ambiguous and isolated texts?
New International Version
He said, "Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods."
English Standard Version
He answered and said, “But I see four men unbound, walking in the midst of the fire, and they are not hurt; and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods.”
New American Standard Bible
He said, "Look! I see four men loosed and walking about in the midst of the fire without harm, and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods!"
International Standard Version
"Look!" he told them, "I see four men walking untied and unharmed in the middle of the fire, and the appearance of the fourth resembles a divine being."
NET Bible
He answered, "But I see four men, untied and walking around in the midst of the fire! No harm has come to them! And the appearance of the fourth is like that of a god!"
Good News Translation
"Then why do I see four men walking around in the fire?" he asked. "They are not tied up, and they show no sign of being hurt--and the fourth one looks like an angel."
ScottA
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But my views are not, I believe in miracles and Christ's messianic fulfillment, but i feel an obligation to justify this view with substantial Biblical testimony, and explanation. You, on the other hand, are talking about something so esoteric, that you can't even understand it, and you bring a single, non-definitive verse, to qualify your position?
Please appreciate why I think that you're being irresponsible and incompetent right now?
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