I've read the details of this in different others places over the years and considering what I have learned about people in general and politicians specifically, I have no doubt that it is true.
Why do so many christians Hate Israel..
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must missed it, Israel is Israel, Gods 12 tribes, Gods people His chosen who will be redeemed back top God no matter what men say.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
Hello @bbyrd009,
@Hermaneutics came back with a link (in reply #143) to my request for evidence to substantiate what he had said (in reply#130) concerning Pharisees and Scribes being of mixed race from the line of Enoch, for which I thank him; but I do not feel myself sufficiently knowledgeable to express an opinion, though I believe @Stan B is correct in what he said concerning this in his response (reply #140):-
* I will leave it in God's hands, for one thing is sure, and that is - that He does know.
Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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'I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.'
(Romans 9:1-5)
Hello there,
Paul was a Jew, and also a Pharisee prior to his conversion.
His love for his brethren, according to the flesh, was not diminished after his conversion. He loved them so much that he could say what he did in the verses above. This whole chapter was not about the spiritual salvation of individual sinners, but about racial and dispensational privilege and blessing, and that is the light in which Romans 9:13, 'Jacob (have) I loved, but Esau (have) I hated' should be taken. It was the race of which Esau was the head which God hated, (because of their behaviour towards His People Israel) just as it was the race of which Jacob was the head which God loved. The sin of Esau, which led to this is clearly seen in Genesis 25, Esau despised his birthright, and bartered it for 'a mess of pottage' , which showed his profanity, and so a place of repentance was denied him, and he forfeited his birthright. This was not about his eternal destiny, but of his birthright, as the firstborn son.
Jacob who was re-named ISRAEL (and his offspring) God loves still, even though they are, 'not my People,' at present:- and therefore so should we.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.'
(Romans 9:1-5)
Hello there,
Paul was a Jew, and also a Pharisee prior to his conversion.
His love for his brethren, according to the flesh, was not diminished after his conversion. He loved them so much that he could say what he did in the verses above. This whole chapter was not about the spiritual salvation of individual sinners, but about racial and dispensational privilege and blessing, and that is the light in which Romans 9:13, 'Jacob (have) I loved, but Esau (have) I hated' should be taken. It was the race of which Esau was the head which God hated, (because of their behaviour towards His People Israel) just as it was the race of which Jacob was the head which God loved. The sin of Esau, which led to this is clearly seen in Genesis 25, Esau despised his birthright, and bartered it for 'a mess of pottage' , which showed his profanity, and so a place of repentance was denied him, and he forfeited his birthright. This was not about his eternal destiny, but of his birthright, as the firstborn son.
Jacob who was re-named ISRAEL (and his offspring) God loves still, even though they are, 'not my People,' at present:- and therefore so should we.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Hello @Reggie Belafonte,
At present Israel, as a nation, is in a loammi condition, 'not My People': but that will not always be the case; God has not forsaken His People, and they will one day once more be, 'My People'. (Hosea)
Praise God!
'But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
.. After those days, saith the LORD,
.... I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;
...... and will be their God, and they shall be My People.
........ And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour,
.......... and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD:
............ for they shall all know Me,
.............. from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
................ for I will forgive their iniquity,
.................. and I will remember their sin no more.
Thus saith the LORD,
.. which giveth the sun for a light by day,
.... and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night,
...... which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar;
........ The LORD of hosts is His Name:
..........If those ordinances depart from before Me, saith the LORD,
............ then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
.. Thus saith the LORD;
.... If heaven above can be measured,
...... and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
........ I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done,
.......... saith the LORD.'
(Jeremiah 31:33-37)
Praise His Holy Name!
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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bbyrd009
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so you do mean Israel, the country, yes? the place over there iow. bc no, israel is not israel, at all, to other minds anyway. so ok ty, just clarifying which ok
not all who are born Israel are of Israel, etc
bbyrd009
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thing about that imo is then "fig tree" must be equated with a Corporation, and Apartheid = "budding?" So then see i guess a little "absolutely" just kinda ends up being icing on a cake, if you will. Sweet in your mouth though, i understand i guess.
But wadr Israhell, Incorporated surely has less than zero to do with Scripture, and we are just being manipulated into believing 1949 as a rallying cry. Bibi is obv insane, and see you end up backing psychopaths who lure children out into the street to shoot them for throwing rocks? You. Personally.
on the other, 12 has a defined meaning in Scripture, yes? And fwiw i dunno if 1000 does strictly speaking, but if we stop looking for facts and kinda gather impressions, what would your impression of the meaning of "1000" be? Anyone reading this reply, if you would, im taking a poll on this kinda.
1000, in a word or so?
Hello @bbyrd009,
* The prime factors of 1000 are 2 and 5
* Factors of 1000:- 1,2,4,5,8,10,20,25,40,50,100,125,200,250,500,1000,
* The number 2 denotes difference, yet if two different people agree in testimony it is conclusive
* Otherwise 2 implies opposition, enmity and opposition, as in the work of the second day. (double hearted, double tongued, double minded)
* The number 5 denotes Divine grace. It is the leading factor in the Tabernacle measurements.
Psalms 90:4
Ecclesiastes 6:6
2 Peter 3:8
Revelation 20:2
Revelation 20:3
Revelation 20:4
Revelation 20:5
Revelation 20:6
Revelation 20:7
In Christ Jesus
Chris
* The prime factors of 1000 are 2 and 5
* Factors of 1000:- 1,2,4,5,8,10,20,25,40,50,100,125,200,250,500,1000,
* The number 2 denotes difference, yet if two different people agree in testimony it is conclusive
* Otherwise 2 implies opposition, enmity and opposition, as in the work of the second day. (double hearted, double tongued, double minded)
* The number 5 denotes Divine grace. It is the leading factor in the Tabernacle measurements.
Psalms 90:4
Ecclesiastes 6:6
2 Peter 3:8
Revelation 20:2
Revelation 20:3
Revelation 20:4
Revelation 20:5
Revelation 20:6
Revelation 20:7
In Christ Jesus
Chris
bbyrd009
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OK, so 1000 is a numerical value to you, right, but if you consider it differently, it might also represent a spiritual value? And by spiritual I mean practical, something that you could associate it with on a practical level? 1000, generally speaking, has a meaning that is more or less agreed-upon, a Google of “what does 1000 mean?” Will provide other peoples perspectives, and we have the examples in the Bible of those who lived just slightly less than 1k years also?Hello @bbyrd009,
* The prime factors of 1000 are 2 and 5
* Factors of 1000:- 1,2,4,5,8,10,20,25,40,50,100,125,200,250,500,1000,
* The number 2 denotes difference, yet if two different people agree in testimony it is conclusive
* Otherwise 2 implies opposition, enmity and opposition, as in the work of the second day. (double hearted, double tongued, double minded)
* The number 5 denotes Divine grace. It is the leading factor in the Tabernacle measurements.
Psalms 90:4
Ecclesiastes 6:6
2 Peter 3:8
Revelation 20:2
Revelation 20:3
Revelation 20:4
Revelation 20:5
Revelation 20:6
Revelation 20:7
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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From my research 1k may have more biblical importance than 1,000 in defining a "Day/age of the Lord."
Shalom
bbyrd009
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bbyrd009
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hmm. i guess i associate it with an eternity? methuselah @ 969 years, too, but in the context of 12x12000 imo "all in all" or code for "everyone" even though i never considered myself unitarian or anything, universal. so maybe everyone in a different perspective, dunno. aeon. thousand year reign. 969 likely meant to be taken...not literally. so maybe a thousand years, aeon, eternity represent a lifetime?
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Hi @bbyrd009,
12x12000 = 144,000 :-
'And I heard the number of them which were sealed:
and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand
of all the tribes of the children of Israel.'
(Revelation 7:4)
'And there are diversities of operations,
but it is the same God which worketh all in all.'
(1 Corinthians 12:6)
'And when all things shall be subdued unto Him,
then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him,
that God may be all in all.'
(1 Corinthians 15:28)
'Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead,
and set Him at His Own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named,
not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under His feet,
and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.'
(Ephesians 1:20-23)
Praise God!
Thank you,
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Do you Remember or even understand why Jacob was called Israel ?
Do you even understand why Jesus Came and who he truly is, not to mention who the people who knew who he was in fact and why the rest did not understand who Jesus was, one does not even have to of read the NT to understand that fact. as Holy Moses pointed that out. and if they truly abided in Holy Moses they would of understood who Jesus truly was in fact.
From Jesus Christ on, their is nether Jew or Gentile, do you understand that fact.
The fact is that you need the Holy Spirit to understand that fact, but only the worldly dupes of this world rant and rave about such, like oh their is a special race you know ? ha ha how pathetic ! that's only worthy of some sort of Nazi BS in fact.
Fact is Jesus was not on about race being the subject, all the Jews were no body's but for the Prophets of God and the stiff necked so called Jews were a problem just as is any race of people, because number one problem is that they lack one thing and that is the most important thing for any one, the Holy Spirit ! do you understand that absolute fact ! anyone who lacks the Holy Spirit is a lost person not worthy of God, in fact they are of this world as Jesus said in fact.
No truly worthy Christian would ever look to anyone who lacked the Holy Spirit as being worthy of God at all.
Fact is that Jesus said who were his and that they follow him in the Holy Spirit.
Jesus never went down to purgatory to bring all the Jews up to Heaven now did he ? who was it that he did, do you know that.
Israel is a Spiritual Nation of Jesus Christ because he is the King of Israel in fact, anyone who rejects that fact is on this world = Satan.
All people must come to Jesus Christs end of story, if one does not regard Jesus as the Christ they are of Satan regardless and that's a fact, if one claims anything other they are of Satan in fact.
As you put above is about the individual's as a whole = 'they' and after those days = Christianity ! and I will be their God ! and they shall be my people. for I shall forgive ? and the Sin then has been washed away, because they have truly repented and turned to God.
I find it curious that Christians who read the Bible and claim the Bible as the source of their doctrine and beliefs, can readily recognise Esau's denial of his birthright for the sake of a plate of beans, and almost cheer at his judgement, continuing to declare that Edom is a cursed nation as a result... But then turn a blind eye to Israel when she, led by covetous leaders desperate to cleave to power, privilege, and worldly honour and riches, murdered their Messiah. That very same Messiah declared to them, your house is now desolate. In response to this, and in response to the reports if the resurrection, they began murdering his disciples.
Christians fail to understand why Jacob was renamed Israel. They fail to understand the significance, that Israel's children utterly failed to live in up to that name, even to the point of rejecting the very purpose for their existence, and they think that God's promises to them are unconditional? They think modern Israel is worthy of our regards and honour... On what basis? What Esau did in coveting food for a blessing he didn't appreciate is mild compared to Israel's murder of Christ in favour of political and religious positions for which they had to kiss the ar#e of their Roman benefactors to retain.
Will all Israel be saved? If they repent, of course. Will it be the same Israel that occupies that bit of land in the middle east? Maybe. But the conditions for their salvation are no different from anyone elses... The scripture that declares that the just shall live by faith is in both old and New testaments and applies to all.
But when Paul was speaking of that promise that all Israel shall be saved, are you absolutely sure he was speaking of a nation? Or was he referring to a group of people who are called Israel because they have been granted that blessing by overcoming their corrupt natures as Jacob did?
@Reggie Belafonte
@brakelite
Hello there,
Thank you for responding to my post, but I confess to being confused: for both entries make me feel that you are giving me a thorough telling off, but I can't make out why.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
@brakelite
Hello there,
Thank you for responding to my post, but I confess to being confused: for both entries make me feel that you are giving me a thorough telling off, but I can't make out why.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
bbyrd009
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ah well twelve to me seems to signify "from all quarters" kinda, though surely not everyone in them i guess...whosoever will. As evidence maybe consider who knows what tribe they may be from fractionally?
bbyrd009
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Imo it is dangerous to assume that your definition of stuff like that is the only one; are you looking for literally 12x12000 exactly, at some future date? Something you can see with your two eyes? then may i suggest that there is a better use for the passage than divining
that scenario is surely not going to play out in the way you imagine it will, imo
are they like marching 12x12, in blocks?
that scenario is surely not going to play out in the way you imagine it will, imo
are they like marching 12x12, in blocks?
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