Who is John talking about.........

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CovenantPromise

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You ask who is John referring to and I ask "what is he referring to"........i.e. the NUMBER of the beast....the NUMBER of a man....these both indicate it isn't a who but a what as in what is it referring to......IMHO.
In my study on the number I found it in 1 Kings 10:14 14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold (666).....Solomon's wealth corrupted him....could it be a monetary system?
Revelation 13:16-18
And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. Here is wisdom Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. (no one can buy or sell without the mark....again it relates to money).
1 Timothy 6:9-10
9Those who want to be rich, however, fall into temptation and become ensnared by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. By craving it, some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows........(the love of money corrupts and controls mankind in evil ways).

But it is very much linked to the antichrist.....so as for myself I believe the number is representing money...a monetary system. The number of his name....the name of Nero Caesar adding up to 666 in Hebrew cannot apply here in Revelation since it is written in Greek....can it?
I found this to be a good read about the number of the beast.....
Why Is the Number of the Beast 666?
Assessing the Options
The problem is that no clear identification can be made linking 666 with any particular ancient historical name. Attempts have been made to alter spellings and incorporate titles to try to make a multitude of names fit, but nothing conclusive has emerged. Most commonly, the number has been identified with Nero, on the basis of a Hebrew transliteration of the title “Nero Caesar.” However, this option flounders on confusion concerning the exact Hebrew spelling of Caesar, and does not fit the fact that John’s readers were largely Greek-speaking, and that Nero had many titles other than Caesar. Additionally, if John were using gematria, he would have alerted his readers by saying something like, “the number in Hebrew (or Greek) is . . .” as he uses the phrases “in Hebrew” or “in Greek” in 9:11 and 16:16, when he wants to draw the readers’ attention to certain significance.

Unsuccessful attempts have been made to identify the number with other Roman emperors, or combinations of emperors. (More than 100 names were proposed in Britain between 1560 and 1830.) Last century the names of Kaiser and Hitler, among others, have also been calculated to equal 666. All attempts to identify the number with the literal calculation of some individual’s name encounter difficulty because of the metaphorical manner in which language and numbers are used in the book. None of the many proposed solutions using the literal gematria form of calculation is ultimately satisfactory because there are so many names, ancient and modern, which could equal the number. The reason for so many proposals, as one commentator says, is that it is easy to turn a name into a number, but complicated to deduce the right name from a number.

It is a man, it is not a number concerning monetary, but he will control the distribution of the world's commodities and is no gematria. It is a man who has the Mark of the beast already. You need to study up on the destruction of the Edom out of Israel . Anyway, he has a DNA MARKER, that has come through Esau's Hititite wives. Scripture is CLEAR about their lineage. 666 is the building block of nature, it is a stable isotope- Carbon 12 DNA adhesive. He will give his Mark- (of his lineage) through the hand or forehead. this will happen through the (FORCES) Armed force , polices forces...etc because he honors a god of (forces) an alien god , according to the Prophet Daniel. He owns the system. It will cause a MARK in the flesh of men who otherwise did not have that extra DNA MARKER .Meaning it will be a NEW Marker added to the DNA of man. Carbon 12 acts like an adhesive to the DNA strain and new codes can be attached to the human genome .
Carbon-12
(12C) is the more abundant of the two stable isotopes of carbon (carbon-13 being the other), amounting to 98.93% of the element carbon;[1] its abundance is due to the triple-alpha process by which it is created in stars. Carbon-12 is of particular importance in its use as the standard from which atomic masses of all nuclides are measured, thus, its atomic mass is exactly 12 daltons by definition. Carbon-12 is composed of 6 protons, 6 neutrons, and 6 electrons.

Continued.....
 

101G

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You ask who is John referring to and I ask "what is he referring to"........i.e. the NUMBER of the beast....the NUMBER of a man....these both indicate it isn't a who but a what as in what is it referring to......IMHO.
In my study on the number I found it in 1 Kings 10:14 14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold (666).....Solomon's wealth corrupted him....could it be a monetary system?
Revelation 13:16-18
And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. Here is wisdom Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. (no one can buy or sell without the mark....again it relates to money).
1 Timothy 6:9-10
9Those who want to be rich, however, fall into temptation and become ensnared by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. By craving it, some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows........(the love of money corrupts and controls mankind in evil ways).

But it is very much linked to the antichrist.....so as for myself I believe the number is representing money...a monetary system. The number of his name....the name of Nero Caesar adding up to 666 in Hebrew cannot apply here in Revelation since it is written in Greek....can it?
I found this to be a good read about the number of the beast.....
Why Is the Number of the Beast 666?
Assessing the Options
The problem is that no clear identification can be made linking 666 with any particular ancient historical name. Attempts have been made to alter spellings and incorporate titles to try to make a multitude of names fit, but nothing conclusive has emerged. Most commonly, the number has been identified with Nero, on the basis of a Hebrew transliteration of the title “Nero Caesar.” However, this option flounders on confusion concerning the exact Hebrew spelling of Caesar, and does not fit the fact that John’s readers were largely Greek-speaking, and that Nero had many titles other than Caesar. Additionally, if John were using gematria, he would have alerted his readers by saying something like, “the number in Hebrew (or Greek) is . . .” as he uses the phrases “in Hebrew” or “in Greek” in 9:11 and 16:16, when he wants to draw the readers’ attention to certain significance.

Unsuccessful attempts have been made to identify the number with other Roman emperors, or combinations of emperors. (More than 100 names were proposed in Britain between 1560 and 1830.) Last century the names of Kaiser and Hitler, among others, have also been calculated to equal 666. All attempts to identify the number with the literal calculation of some individual’s name encounter difficulty because of the metaphorical manner in which language and numbers are used in the book. None of the many proposed solutions using the literal gematria form of calculation is ultimately satisfactory because there are so many names, ancient and modern, which could equal the number. The reason for so many proposals, as one commentator says, is that it is easy to turn a name into a number, but complicated to deduce the right name from a number.
Good Post H2S, and good point, I saw that in 1 Kings also. money is contol by computers now. one cannot buy and sell without them. and now man is even considering how to "digitize" his conciseness. this is what is called, "corrupting the image". man is trying his best to be "IMMORTAL", his way, and not God's way.

yes, I agree, it's a what, and not a "who". I'll be looking at your link later.

PICJAG.
 
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DNB

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Why would you say this when the Bible is perfectly clear that the number 666 is indeed the number of the Antichrist (a man who is totally under the control of Satan)? While he is called "the Beast" in Revelation 13, he has many other names and titles. It would appear that every person on earth will be branded with a number, and 666 will be an integral part of that number.

Why are so many Christians confused about the Antichrist, since we know that God will (a) send strong delusion upon the earth to allow the Antichrist to deceive the world and (b) God will give him 3 1/2 years (42 months) to have total and complete control of the inhabitants of the world.

The pope was never the Antichrist, nor will he be in the future. The Antichrist must be a renegade Jew who claims to be the true Jewish Messiah and fools the Orthodox Jews into believing this through his dazzlings signs, miracles, and lying wonders. He must also have full access to the future temple in Jerusalem, so that he can hijack it for himself and for the Abomination of Desolation. He will then sit in that temple and claim that he is God.

2 THESSALONIANS 2
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that Man of Sin be revealed, the Son of Perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth
[restrains] that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the Mystery of Iniquity doth already work: only He who now letteth
will let [restrains will restrain], until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
You bring up some very good, and accurate points!
Just for the sake of argument, and as you may know, the earliest manuscripts of the Book of Revelation, have 616 as the number (only 2 MSS, I believe). But the majority say 666.
I don't have much of a point on that, but maybe someone better versed in eschatology may have some insight, or see a significance?
 

Enoch111

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Just for the sake of argument, and as you may know, the earliest manuscripts of the Book of Revelation, have 616 as the number (only 2 MSS, I believe).
Since the earliest manuscripts are corruptions of the Bible text, we may safely ignore them. They should never have seen the light of day.
 

VictoryinJesus

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The Antichrist must be a renegade Jew who claims to be the true Jewish Messiah and fools the Orthodox Jews into believing this through his dazzlings signs, miracles, and lying wonders. He must also have full access to the future temple in Jerusalem, so that he can hijack it for himself and for the Abomination of Desolation. He will then sit in that temple and claim that he is God.

That outward man of sin and death?(beast) “He must have access to the future temple in Jerusalem.” 1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

“so that he can hijack it for himself and for the abomination of Desolation. He will sit in that temple and claim that he is God.” 1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
 

DNB

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Since the earliest manuscripts are corruptions of the Bible text, we may safely ignore them. They should never have seen the light of day.
...apparently I brought that up to the wrong person. Ok, 616 holds no weight with yourself.
Not that I'm convinced that 616 is more correct, but I do personally favour the earliest manuscripts as being more accurate, ...but that's another debate...
 

DNB

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That outward man of sin and death?(beast) “He must have access to the future temple in Jerusalem.” 1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

“so that he can hijack it for himself and for the abomination of Desolation. He will sit in that temple and claim that he is God.” 1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
That was way out of context VIJ. Enoch111 quoted directly from scripture, from a didactic verse on eschatology. His point was 100% valid, possibly the slight nuances in his interpretation is up for debate, but 2 Thess 2, is an extremely significant passage on this subject, that he quoted verbatim.
Your passages are completely unrelated, and again, out of context. They do not undermine Enoch111's point.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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That was way out of context VIJ. Enoch111 quoted directly from scripture, from a didactic verse on eschatology. His point was 100% valid, possibly the slight nuances in his interpretation is up for debate, but 2 Thess 2, is an extremely significant passage on this subject, that he quoted verbatim.
Your passages are completely unrelated, and again, out of context. They do not undermine Enoch111's point.

“have full access to the future temple in Jerusalem” what is that future temple then? When does God remove His Spirit from His people and build another temple? Is this before or after New Jerusalem descends that the antichrist sits in the temple of God and defiles it?

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

When is God going to overturn and throw down lively stones and the chief corner to destroy the spiritual house He build up in Christ? ...for another future temple without which perishes?
 
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DNB

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“have full access to the future temple in Jerusalem” what is that future temple then? When does God remove His Spirit from His people and build another temple? Is this before or after New Jerusalem descends that the antichrist sits in the temple of God and defiles it?
It's before the 2nd coming, as Paul is explaining. He says that, don't lose your head about the end times, as though it has come, as certain criteria must occur first. And one of these symptoms will be the man of lawlessness seated in the temple of God, claiming to be God. Does not the verse say just that? I do not take temple in this verse to mean a believer's spirit. As far as I understand eschatology, which is very little, the literal brick & mortar Temple will be rebuilt.
 

VictoryinJesus

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the man of lawlessness seated in the temple of God, claiming to be God.
“The man of lawlessness seated in the temple of God, claiming to be God.”
you don’t see that now?
 

VictoryinJesus

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It's before the 2nd coming, as Paul is explaining. He says that, don't lose your head about the end times, as though it has come, as certain criteria must occur first. And one of these symptoms will be the man of lawlessness seated in the temple of God, claiming to be God. Does not the verse say just that? I do not take temple in this verse to mean a believer's spirit. As far as I understand eschatology, which is very little, the literal brick & mortar Temple will be rebuilt.

going to sleep. Should have never engaged in this conversation. We just disagree here. To me the Spiritual house build up with Christ as the foundation, is the only house that remains when the rest is burned.
 
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Enoch111

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...apparently I brought that up to the wrong person. Ok, 616 holds no weight with yourself.
Not that I'm convinced that 616 is more correct, but I do personally favour the earliest manuscripts as being more accurate, ...but that's another debate...
Two important things to note:

1. There is NOT A SINGLE English translation which has 616. So that should settle that issue.

2. The critical texts have expressed 666 in words, whereas the Received Text (and the Traditional Text) have expressed it in terms of Greek letters --χξς. Even Tischedorf -- who promoted Codex Sinaiticus -- has the three Greek letters -- which stand for numerals.
upload_2020-1-9_22-28-9.png


Greek Orthodox Church 1904
Ὧδε ἡ σοφία ἐστίν· ὁ ἔχων νοῦν ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ θηρίου· ἀριθμὸς γὰρ ἀνθρώπου ἐστί· καὶ ὁ ἀριθμὸς αὐτοῦ χξς’.
Tischendorf 8th Edition [verse has been altered hence a corruption]
ὧδε σοφία εἰμίἔχω νοῦς ψηφίζω ἀριθμός θηρίον ἀριθμός γάρ ἄνθρωπος εἰμί καί ὁ ἀριθμός αὐτός χξϛ
Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
ὧδε ἡ σοφία ἐστίν. ὁ ἔχων τὸν νοῦν ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ θηρίου· ἀριθμὸς γὰρ ἀνθρώπου ἐστί, καὶ ὁ ἀριθμὸς αὐτοῦ χξϛʹ.
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
Ὧδε ἡ σοφία ἐστίν ὁ ἔχων τὸν νοῦν ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ θηρίου ἀριθμὸς γὰρ ἀνθρώπου ἐστίν καὶ ὁ ἀριθμὸς αὐτοῦ χξς

The interesting thing is that stigma (ϛ)has spiritual significance.
"Strong's 4742 is Stigma = a mark pricked in or branded upon the body. To ancient oriental usage, slaves and soldiers bore the name or the stamp of their master or commander branded or pricked (cut) into their bodies to indicate what master or general they belonged to, and there were even some devotee's who stamped themselves in this way with the token of their gods) [ G4742 from a primary stizo (to "stick", i.e. prick)]"

And 666 denotes that the person who has taken this mark is the property of Satan and the Antichrist.
 
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Heart2Soul

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It is a man, it is not a number concerning monetary, but he will control the distribution of the world's commodities and is no gematria. It is a man who has the Mark of the beast already. You need to study up on the destruction of the Edom out of Israel . Anyway, he has a DNA MARKER, that has come through Esau's Hititite wives. Scripture is CLEAR about their lineage. 666 is the building block of nature, it is a stable isotope- Carbon 12 DNA adhesive. He will give his Mark- (of his lineage) through the hand or forehead. this will happen through the (FORCES) Armed force , polices forces...etc because he honors a god of (forces) an alien god , according to the Prophet Daniel. He owns the system. It will cause a MARK in the flesh of men who otherwise did not have that extra DNA MARKER .Meaning it will be a NEW Marker added to the DNA of man. Carbon 12 acts like an adhesive to the DNA strain and new codes can be attached to the human genome .
Carbon-12
(12C) is the more abundant of the two stable isotopes of carbon (carbon-13 being the other), amounting to 98.93% of the element carbon;[1] its abundance is due to the triple-alpha process by which it is created in stars. Carbon-12 is of particular importance in its use as the standard from which atomic masses of all nuclides are measured, thus, its atomic mass is exactly 12 daltons by definition. Carbon-12 is composed of 6 protons, 6 neutrons, and 6 electrons.

Continued.....
How are you going to put a man on your forehead or in your hand?
 
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marksman

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I don't know but Niro was antichrist as it gets. there are legends that he would hang them on posts on his porch and light them on fire like lamps for light when he had guests. its very posable that by now much of what was written in Revelations has already come to pass. the church then was suffering great prosecution until the establishment of what is now the catholic church in I do believe 325 or 7. so if you were alive when the book was written, and was a believer, the "antichrist" being alive a that time would be a real thing. besides, speaking in terms or words that can't be held against you, might just be the reason why things like "666" or multi-headed dragons are used. (a lingo not understood by the authorities at the time) scriptural dragons are usually allies with more then one king involved, hence heads and crowns. and those who would understand such would be those familiar with the OT profits and what is meant by this that or the other..

Nothing written about the antichrist and 666 has happened yet for the simple reason that we have not been required to have the "mark of the beast" stamped on our hands or forehead.

Interesting though that modern technology allows companies to recognise a person with an imprint of a part of their body put through some form of recognition technology. Eventually, all shops, restaurants, etc will have body recognition technology and credit cards will be a thing of the past. The moment it is made compulsory is the time that you will know that we are in trouble.
 

ScottA

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….. and why does he use this 666 "code?"

Revelation 13:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Made on the sixth day, 6 is the number of man.

6. The first was Adam.
6. The stature of Goliath, the enemy of Israel God's chosen, defeated by David, was six cubits.
6. The son of David appointed to build a house for the Lord God was Solomon, the greatest of worldly kings.​

Jesus being questioned and tested by the Pharisees and the Sadducees, turned the test back on them, asking, "“What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?”

They said to Him, “The Son of David.”

He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”’? If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?” And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.
"

Which question Jesus later answered, saying, "My kingdom is not of this world."

Solomon was both the foreshadowing of Jesus, but also of Satan the prince of this world, as a demonstration of both: Both of the worldly and the spiritual son of David...and what would have happened if David would have lost to Goliath. 666 is the number of all men against Christ, and those who serve a worldly kingdom.
 
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