Who is John talking about.........

Heart2Soul · Jan 10, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
They were discussing what it will be like and how by this passage we know there will be trees. And fruit which we will eat from these trees. Heart2Soul Consider the whole passage leading up to “and they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.”

Agreed....His Name shall be in their foreheads....which is what will happen with the mark of the beast....his name or number will be on the forehead or the hand.
I wonder why John wrote it as the mark of the beast instead of the mark of the antichrist? or the mark of satan....
1And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. 2And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.
—Revelation 13:1–2

The Dragon is satan....and satan gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority....this was the first beast....and Satan specifically chooses him to give his power to. Satan doesn't go around giving his power to antichrists....which simply means against Jesus Christ....that could be everyone who claims to be atheists.

the second beast ...
11Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed. 13It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people,14and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,17so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. 18This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.
—Revelation 13:11–18

The second beast is here functioning like the Holy Spirit....except it is unholy....
So now you have the unholy trinity....Satan (acting as God), the first beast (as the false messiah) and the second beast (as the Holy Spirit)

It is a mockery to the Holy Trinity of God and it is how Satan will deceive many.

VictoryinJesus · Jan 10, 2020

DNB said:
It's before the 2nd coming, as Paul is explaining. He says that, don't lose your head about the end times, as though it has come, as certain criteria must occur first. And one of these symptoms will be the man of lawlessness seated in the temple of God, claiming to be God.

Luke 21:25-26 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; [26] Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
...for looking after those things coming upon the earth” ...when is the temple going to be built, what’s the mark, who is the antichrist, what is the beast, is it the pope, which king is it, how are we going to stand, watch Jerusalem, what are they building, what are they doing, when is Jesus Christ coming in the flesh...

Hebrews 12:27-29 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. [28] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: [29] For our God is a consuming fire.

The removing of things that are shaken...things that are made: like the temple you are discussing as the future temple when He tells what temple can’t be shaken but remains build up in Christ as the chief cornerstone.

“That things which cannot be shaken may remain.” Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Waiting on him · Jan 10, 2020

Mark 4:38-40 KJV
[38] And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish? [39] And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. [40] And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

Tecarta Bible

VictoryinJesus · Jan 10, 2020

Heart2Soul said:
Agreed....His Name shall be in their foreheads....which is what will happen with the mark of the beast....his name or number will be on the forehead or the hand.
I wonder why John wrote it as the mark of the beast instead of the mark of the antichrist? or the mark of satan....
1And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. 2And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.
—Revelation 13:1–2

The Dragon is satan....and satan gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority....this was the first beast....and Satan specifically chooses him to give his power to. Satan doesn't go around giving his power to antichrists....which simply means against Jesus Christ....that could be everyone who claims to be atheists.

the second beast ...
11Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed. 13It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people,14and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,17so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. 18This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.
—Revelation 13:11–18

The second beast is here functioning like the Holy Spirit....except it is unholy....
So now you have the unholy trinity....Satan (acting as God), the first beast (as the false messiah) and the second beast (as the Holy Spirit)

It is a mockery to the Holy Trinity of God and it is how Satan will deceive many.

“it is a mockery to the Holy Trinity of God and it is how Satan will deceive many.”

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Romans 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

can not get it to stop underlining there. Consider the spirit of fear unto bondage again.
2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
The spirit of fear and bondage to kill, steal, and destroy, death ...the mark of the beast.
He came that they may have Life. Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

how do their hearts fail them for fear of what is coming upon the earth, unless they are of the spirit of fear and torment? If the Holy Spirit is God’s mark “of power, and of love, and of a sound mind” Then the spirit of fear and bondage is the spirit of the antichrist’s mark. visibly seen by the fruits of death. Mark 5:15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

Romans 8:15-16 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage (The mark of antichrist)again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.(the mark of Christ) [16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Earburner · Jan 10, 2020

Taken said:
Ha, there are so many pseudo "Government Freebies" being promoted NOW...

I don't participate in ANY of them.

Yes! The whole world is being "conditioned" to run to their individual governments for help, so that when the apocolypse in the Euphrates region takes place, even the governments are going to run for help!
But WHERE TO?
Ans. The UN, which was founded by the wealthy Elite, who control and orchestrate all money, every where, aka The Illuminati. They are the origin of all the CHAOS that is in the world, living by their motto of "ORDO AB CHAO" meaning in latin, ORDER OUT OF CHAOS, in order to bring about their "millennium" of a New World Order.

Do you believe in a falsely contrived view of "a millennium" of world peace, that you have been told/led to believe, that will supposedly be with Christ on earth?
WATCH OUT!! Its a LIE.
.
Please go discover the symbolism of "a thousand years" in 2 Peter 3:8-10, and learn WHAT the symbolic thousand years was for, and WHEN it began. Study verse 9 thoroughly.

VictoryinJesus · Jan 10, 2020

Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

He said His kingdom can not be shaken but remains. Which can not be shaken the spirit of fear and bondage or The Spirit of Life which is God (and the two witnesses stood upon their feet) 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Yet many are confessing He will come in the flesh. Many are confessing a Future flesh temple built of men and not the body of Christ build up of God. Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Heart2Soul · Jan 10, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
“it is a mockery to the Holy Trinity of God and it is how Satan will deceive many.”

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Romans 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

can not get it to stop underlining there. Consider the spirit of fear unto bondage again.
2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
The spirit of fear and bondage to kill, steal, and destroy, death ...the mark of the beast.
He came that they may have Life. Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

how do their hearts fail them for fear of what is coming upon the earth, unless they are of the spirit of fear and torment? If the Holy Spirit is God’s mark “of power, and of love, and of a sound mind” Then the spirit of fear and bondage is the spirit of the antichrist’s mark. visibly seen by the fruits of death. Mark 5:15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

Romans 8:15-16 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage (The mark of antichrist)again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.(the mark of Christ) [16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

I understand we are not to fear and fear is not what I have addressed....rather to the topic of the OP as to who John is talking about.....the mark of the beast is a number....not a person but the number symbolizes and represents that person..
I personally do not fear satan or his demons.

(The mark of antichrist) could you please provide scripture for this...thank you.

And if you wouldn't mind would you kindly show me where I may have been talking about fear and bondage?

VictoryinJesus · Jan 10, 2020

Heart2Soul said:
I understand we are not to fear and fear is not what I have addressed....rather to the topic of the OP as to who John is talking about.....the mark of the beast is a number....not a person but the number symbolizes and represents that person..
I personally do not fear satan or his demons.

(The mark of antichrist) could you please provide scripture for this...thank you.

And if you wouldn't mind would you kindly show me where I may have been talking about fear and bondage?

imperfect. Isn’t that the number?
1 John 4:17-18 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. [18] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Only trying to help. Christ stood upon the raging sea and fear did not cause His heart to fail. Only want to encourage others of “peace, be still” and there was a great calm.

Earburner · Jan 10, 2020

Taken said:
More research? I read and study on a continual basis. I gave a short post which does not encompass all I study.

If you have a particular thing you disagree with that I have said, QUOTE THAT.

Glory to God,
Taken

Revelation 13:18 IS ONLY A REFERENCE to 1 Kings 10:14 for correct understanding.
UBI- free digitized government money for one year, as Solomon recieved his free gold in one year.
THAT is what we are to understand.

The UN has endorsed the concept of UBI and is calling ALL nations to conduct experiments with that concept.
WHY??
Ans. THEY PLAN to manifest it in the world for their purposes.

When the digitized credits start piling up in your bank account, you won't be tempted to use it??
After a WW3 in the Euphrates region, where 1/3 of men are SLAIN/killed off in ONE DAY, you don't think this present economic system won't collapse?
They KNOW that it will!
They are getting ready for it now!!

"Universal Basic Income", learn and know what it is.

Heart2Soul · Jan 10, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
imperfect. Isn’t that the number?
1 John 4:17-18 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. [18] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Only trying to help. Christ stood upon the raging sea and fear did not cause His heart to fail. Only want to encourage others of “peace, be still” and there was a great calm.

I am at peace...thank you for the encouragement.

DPMartin · Jan 10, 2020

marksman said:
Nothing written about the antichrist and 666 has happened yet for the simple reason that we have not been required to have the "mark of the beast" stamped on our hands or forehead.

you would be incorrect there, though now its been some time since I've read it there were times in the days revelations was written where one would have to have a mark within roman culture to do business and such and the mark would be an acknowledgment of the emperor as a god. emperors would set their own images in temples and such to be worshiped as gods. there is one emperor that is documented for this I don't remember who. its also my understanding that the wives of such were called divas. hence the origin of the word.

you must take into consideration that back in the day one's whole world wasn't much more than maybe the country one lived in for most people, and Rome engulfed many countries. also when reading things like scripture prophecy one should understand its written by Jews to the Jews or at least from the prospective of Israelites and Jerusalem. as in the view from Jerusalem Israelite to the world.

as far as tech. goes everyone will see Jesus come as He promised, probably on their cell phones. have you noticed when news shows housing in some of the most poorest countries you see satellite antennas everywhere. Jesu is supposed to return to the Mt of Olives as told to the disciples that stood there when He ascended, and told by prophets in the OT the description of the Mt of Olives will become a valley hence darkening the sun and the moon from the dirt in the air, which by the description of some OT prophets fits the start of a nuclear retaliation. which would leave the world as described by the same. also known as the day of the Lord.

the Almighty doesn't have to destroy man to destroy man, He just has to let man execute their own judgment, which death.

VictoryinJesus · Jan 10, 2020

Heart2Soul said:
I am at peace...thank you for the encouragement.

Good! I’m so glad you have peace...again only wanted to edify others (not that you or anyone else needs it). but it is in the heart, yeah. Speaking of peace ...been meditating on “of them that make peace”. James 3:17-18 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. [18] And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

make peace with Who...starting to hear it Slightly differently than I did before in: of them that make peace with God. Isaiah 27:4-5 Fury is not in me: who would set the briers and thorns against me in battle? I would go through them, I would burn them together. [5] Or let him take hold of my strength, that he may make peace with me; and he shall make peace with me.

anyways...have to get to work painting birdhouses. Hope you have an inspired day full of joy, praising, and strength in Him!

bbyrd009 · Jan 10, 2020

DNB said:
And one of these symptoms will be the man of lawlessness seated in the temple of God, claiming to be God. Does not the verse say just that?

to someone who is uncomfortable with the realization that believers speaking about future things as if they knew fit that spiritual profile to a t, sure. "This is the truth, i already explained that, this is the bottom line," all these are the prerogatives of Yah, imo anyway.

DNB said:
I do not take temple in this verse to mean a believer's spirit.

i guess it would be their soul

DNB said:
As far as I understand eschatology, which is very little, the literal brick & mortar Temple will be rebuilt.

dont hold your breath imo...or, the brick and mortar temple has already been rebuilt prolly,

bbyrd009 · Jan 10, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
“it is a mockery to the Holy Trinity of God and it is how Satan will deceive many.”

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Romans 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

can not get it to stop underlining there. Consider the spirit of fear unto bondage again.
2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
The spirit of fear and bondage to kill, steal, and destroy, death ...the mark of the beast.
He came that they may have Life. Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

how do their hearts fail them for fear of what is coming upon the earth, unless they are of the spirit of fear and torment? If the Holy Spirit is God’s mark “of power, and of love, and of a sound mind” Then the spirit of fear and bondage is the spirit of the antichrist’s mark. visibly seen by the fruits of death. Mark 5:15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

Romans 8:15-16 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage (The mark of antichrist)again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.(the mark of Christ) [16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

exactly imo, ty

funny to me how the Holy Trinitizers are the ones seem to be in the most fear

bbyrd009 · Jan 10, 2020

Heart2Soul said:
his name or number will be on the forehead or the hand.

wadr you are looking for a literal event to happen there that one might be able to see with their two eyes, and this is surely not going to happen ok. No one is going to get a literal mark on their foreheads or their right hands bc that is not what the v is saying

bbyrd009 · Jan 10, 2020

marksman said:
Nothing written about the antichrist and 666 has happened yet for the simple reason that we have not been required to have the "mark of the beast" stamped on our hands or forehead.

so you say, but that does not make it true ok; we virtually all toe the financial line, everyone here uses dollars, cant get hired without proper adherence to the laws we are so completely under, and etc.

so i mean keep looking for a literal mark if you like, but wadr you are prolly kidding yourself ok

Enoch111 · Jan 10, 2020

DNB said:
Very informative Enoch111, i've always leaned to 666, I just thought that the notion was interesting, ...but to obscure to be compelling.
Thanks for the research!

Something else to note is that the Greek word for six is *hex*. So a triple six is probably the most powerful hex. But in English *hex* means the casting of a spell by a witch. At the same time that God sends a strong delusion upon this earth, Satan, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet will cast a spell (through their Satanic miracles) to deceive the world into worshiping them.

And he [the False Prophet] doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. (Rev 13:13-15)

Heart2Soul · Jan 10, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
wadr you are looking for a literal event to happen there that one might be able to see with their two eyes, and this is surely not going to happen ok. No one is going to get a literal mark on their foreheads or their right hands bc that is not what the v is saying

I know this...it more than likely will be a computer chip...however they have invisible tattoos that show up under a certain light.
But I am leaning towards a chip implant since it is already being implemented in some countries.

DNB · Jan 10, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Seems all hinges on He left in the clouds and will return the same way He left. Always have wondered did He return to Paul before or after they watched Him leave? Acts 23:11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.

Sorry VIJ, not following ? 2 Thess 2 was a critical, and very explicit and didactic passage, on eschatology. How you see the metaphor in it is rather bewildering. It's not the nature of the tone of the passage, nor the details?

DNB · Jan 10, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
Luke 21:25-26 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; [26] Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
...for looking after those things coming upon the earth” ...when is the temple going to be built, what’s the mark, who is the antichrist, what is the beast, is it the pope, which king is it, how are we going to stand, watch Jerusalem, what are they building, what are they doing, when is Jesus Christ coming in the flesh...

Hebrews 12:27-29 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. [28] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: [29] For our God is a consuming fire.

The removing of things that are shaken...things that are made: like the temple you are discussing as the future temple when He tells what temple can’t be shaken but remains build up in Christ as the chief cornerstone.

“That things which cannot be shaken may remain.” Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

You are correlating two completely unrelated pericopes? You're being haphazard with your word analysis. Context should tell you when & where to take things either literally, or figuratively. You're not applying correct hermeneutics here?

Who is John talking about.........

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