When were you created

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before or at conception


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Stan B

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Just two questions,do you think you were created at conception or before?

For me scripture shows we were created (souls)before ,that's why Christ would say I would not have you do anything I didn't
Neither!! I was created when I was born, you know, like on my birthday! When God breathed into me the breath of Life. Before that I was simply an incomplete work in progress.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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To say God knew me before I was born is understandable. He saw me before I was born, knew my days and my end.

It's in thinking I was created rather than born that I can't conceive of...

Adam was created, I was born.
 

101G

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Where was Christ before He was born of woman?
GINOLJC, to all.
First, thanks for your reply, second, JESUS is not born. he, JESUS, before he came in the flesh that was bore of the woman Mary, he is the LORD, Spirit, (better known as the Holy Spirit). for God is "a" Spirit. and God is JESUS, before he Manifested in flesh.
understand something. Son of God is what was born, flesh and bone with blood, that came out of mary, out ,and NOT from the tribe of Judah. Son of man is never born, he is the Spirit that came from Heaven.

Now as for satan, pride is what was the cause of his downfall,
Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah 14:13 "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: (Pride goes before a fall see proverb 16:18)

Isaiah 14:14 "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isaiah 14:15 "Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


as said, Pride was his fall, but understand, the devil is "evil", and not sin, understand that. he is an adversary, or an opponent, not to God but us. for God created "evil", supportive scripture, Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things". (one should read that very last part of the scripture in red here).

and God, not alway the devil, can send an evil spirit to you. when I was reading the book of Job, that conversation between God and Satan, the devil, open my eyes to the truth. the devil, or satan have to report to God. coming up as a child I was taugh it was a war between Good, (God), and (Evil), the devil. well that's not true for God is in control of bothGood and evil. just think for a second, why do you think that he put the tree of Good and Evil in the Garden if he's not in contol of both. there, I see is a lot for all of us to Learn.

we will get to these questions one at at time for discussion, Lord Willing.
 
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Heart2Soul

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GINOLJC, to all.
First, thanks for your reply, second, JESUS is not born. he, JESUS, before he came in the flesh that was bore of the woman Mary, he is the LORD, Spirit, (better known as the Holy Spirit). for God is "a" Spirit. and God is JESUS, before he Manifested in flesh.
understand something. Son of God is what was born, flesh and bone with blood, that came out of mary, out ,and NOT from the tribe of Judah. Son of man is never born, he is the Spirit that came from Heaven.

Now as for satan, pride is what was the cause of his downfall,
Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah 14:13 "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: (Pride goes before a fall see proverb 16:18)

Isaiah 14:14 "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isaiah 14:15 "Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


as said, Pride was his fall, but understand, the devil is "evil", and not sin, understand that. he is an adversary, or an opponent, not to God but us. for God created "evil", supportive scripture, Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things". (one should read that very last part of the scripture in red here).

and God, not alway the devil, can send an evil spirit to you. when I was reading the book of Job, that conversation between God and Satan, the devil, open my eyes to the truth. the devil, or satan have to report to God. coming up as a child I was taugh it was a war between Good, (God), and (Evil), the devil. well that's not true for God is in control of bothGood and evil. just think for a second, why do you think that he put the tree of Good and Evil in the Garden if he's not in contol of both. there, I see is a lot for all of us to Learn.

we will get to these questions one at at time for discussion, Lord Willing.
I had a dream or maybe a vision I can't remember now, nevertheless, in my dream/vision all souls existed in heaven....with God. When Satan and a third of the angels were cast down from heaven there appeared to be a great amount of fear and confusion because of what took place.....God could not let that remain in heaven so in His infinite Wisdom He created a earth and then created man out of it....then He breathed the breath of life and place a soul in that body and gave him free will.....He is a Sovereign God and to be Just and Fair He allowed each soul to come to earth as man and choose for himself who he wanted to serve.
I don't recall what I was studying at the time but I am certain it had to do with scriptures that referred to predestination, knew us before we were conceived, and so forth.
 

101G

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I had a dream or maybe a vision I can't remember now, nevertheless, in my dream/vision all souls existed in heaven....with God. When Satan and a third of the angels were cast down from heaven there appeared to be a great amount of fear and confusion because of what took place.....God could not let that remain in heaven so in His infinite Wisdom He created a earth and then created man out of it....then He breathed the breath of life and place a soul in that body and gave him free will.....He is a Sovereign God and to be Just and Fair He allowed each soul to come to earth as man and choose for himself who he wanted to serve.
I don't recall what I was studying at the time but I am certain it had to do with scriptures that referred to predestination, knew us before we were conceived, and so forth.
H2S good morning, not saying that your're right or wrong here, all spirits existed in God before the heavens and the earth was created. yes, before the heaven, (note how I worded that), for the heavens and the earth was created by God whom we have our being in. listen,
Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring". now a question, "Where do, or did our spirits come from? answer from God, right. for when we die the spirit returns to God, for he gave it. so it, our spirits .... "CAME" form God. our flesh returns to the EARTH, dust. all souls are God's also, (see Ezekiel 18:4), conscious alive, (body and spirit), or unconscious, notdead as the body is, for the body without the spirit is dead. so the body is dead without the spirit. but the flesh decompose, but not the soul. and a LIVING, or conscious "Soul" is active. but a soul without spirit is just unconscious, not dead, but not active. for the dead knows nothing. so we're in him, have always, is and will be unless seperated in the end.

now as for the angels, not saying any is right or wrong, that a third of angels was kicked out of heaven, we'll address that, and any thoughts of any pre adamic world as our brother n2thelight theorize about. this will be my next post.

once again, this is not to prove anyone is right or wrong, but to discuss and be edified.

PICJAG.
 
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101G

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WAS THERE A PRE-ADAMIC WORLD?
the short answer is NO.
let’s get at the root of this discussion, was there a world before this earth age? meaning before Adam and Eve?. we'll let the bible tell us if so or not. and rid ourselves of this false notion.

Evidence #1. "A pre-adamic world, God destroyed and repopulated the Earth". Many christian believe that God destroyed the earth, (between Genesis 1:1 & 2, better known as the gap theory), and then he had to repopulate the earth. this is where the problem lay. if the bible shows that there was no destruction, and no repopulating of the earth then this issue of a Pre-Adamic race can be put to rest, or ended. we’ll do this in 2 steps, step 1. the destruction error, and step 2. the repopulating of the earth error.

Step #1. the destruction error, better known as the gap theory. many believe that in the Genesis 1:2. the earth was destroyed and re-made. many take this stand using Jeremiah 4:23 "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light”, as their proof to this destruction. let’s see if this is true or not. This theory traditionally stands or fall on these 2 words found in verse 2 of chapter 1 in the book of Genesis. these two words are the Hebrew words, “tohuw“, meaning, “without form”, and the other word, “bohuw”, meaning void. I can go the long way in disproving this theory, but I’ll take the short and quick way to disprove the theory.

the key to solving this error is in the usage of the Hebrew word for “EARTH” or “LAND”, H776 ’eres as used in Genesis 1:2 and Jeremiah 4:23. there are two usage of H776 ’eres. first usage, “EARTH”. in the Old Testament It expresses a world view contrary to ancient myths, as well as many modern theories seeking to explain the origin of the universe and the forces which sustain it. ’Eres may be translated "earth," the temporal scene of human activity, experience, and history. The material world had a beginning when God "made the earth by His power," "formed it," and "spread it out".

but usage #2, of this same word can be translated as LAND, and does not only denote the entire terrestrial planet, but is also used of some of the earth's component parts. English words like land, country, ground, and soil transfer its meaning into our language. example, "the LAND of Egypt," "the LAND of the Philistines," "the LAND of Israel," "the LAND of Benjamin," and so on. So we can clearly see from the above definitions that Jeremiah was talking only about a certain LAND on the EARTH, and not the entire planet. As definition #2 states, “it refers to an area occupied by a nation or tribe”, in this case Judah. Because verse 23 states, “The whole LAND shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end”. The LAND was Judah, and not the entire planet. notice how I been capitalizing “LAND”. let’s put it in plain language. the Original Word: ’eres can mean LAND, like we say today the LAND of Lincoln. do we mean the entire planet? no we’re speaking of the Land of Illinois, the state, not the entire planet. now, the bible example, and how it is used in context. Genesis 2:11 "The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold”. the whole “LAND” (H776 אֶרֶץ 'erets). is this the whole “EARTH”? NO just as definition #2 states, some of the earth's component parts, like in ground, country, or “LAND”. this is how the devil deceive or beguiled people, by not researching out words. so in Jeremiah chapter 4 it was only the “LAND” of Judah, go back and read the entire chapter 4. see how easy that was to understand?, research words out. now this research leads us to step #2.

Step #2 the repopulating of the earth error. many a christian believe after the so-called destruction of the earth, man re-pouplated the Earth. again we will take the quick and easy way to put an end, or to rest this error. the KJ version of the bible was written in old English. so we need an old English dictionary to use, because words change meaning over time. scripture, Genesis 1:28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth”. here, the misunderstood word is “replenish”. when many morden thing christian see the prefix "re" automatic we think again. (I did to when first reading genesis), so we all was in the same boat. but let's get the correct definition. using an old English dictionary, Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, the word “replenish” means, 1. To fill; (STOP), we don’t have to go any further. there is where the error lay. most think replenish mean to do it again. no, it simply means mean to fill or let’s continue, to stock with numbers or abundance. definition #2. To finish; to complete. {Not in use}. there again, following the gudiance of the Holy Spirit we researched out the words and arrived at the TRUTH. I plead with people to study to show God that you're interested in his word, and he will reveale it to you. as said many times, the Helper, the Holy Ghost is just that a "HELPER", and if you aint doing anything, (researching), then he has nothing to do.

so in conclusion: the Earth was not destroyed at Genesis 1:2 and neither was it RE-plenish, (do it again), but filled with PEOPLE. God made this earth to be inhabited. scripture, Isaiah 45:18 "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else". BINGO there it is in the bible, god did not formed the earth in "VAIN", no, he made it habitable". I hope one can see the truth now.

my source for H776 ’eres earth, land, VINE'S COMPLETE old Testament EXPOSITORY DICTIONARY.

PICJAG.
 

Heart2Soul

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H2S good morning, not saying that your're right or wrong here, all spirits existed in God before the heavens and the earth was created. yes, before the heaven, (note how I worded that), for the heavens and the earth was created by God whom we have our being in. listen,
Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring". now a question, "Where do, or did our spirits come from? answer from God, right. for when we die the spirit returns to God, for he gave it. so it, our spirits .... "CAME" form God. our flesh returns to the EARTH, dust. all souls are God's also, (see Ezekiel 18:4), conscious alive, (body and spirit), or unconscious, notdead as the body is, for the body without the spirit is dead. so the body is dead without the spirit. but the flesh decompose, but not the soul. and a LIVING, or conscious "Soul" is active. but a soul without spirit is just unconscious, not dead, but not active. for the dead knows nothing. so we're in him, have always, is and will be unless seperated in the end.

now as for the angels, not saying any is right or wrong, that a third of angels was kicked out of heaven, we'll address that, and any thoughts of any pre adamic world as our brother n2thelight theorize about. this will be my next post.

once again, this is not to prove anyone is right or wrong, but to discuss and be edified.

PICJAG.
I am always eager to learn more....and some of these things I have seen in dreams and visions I never shared with anyone until lately....so it's kind of reassuring to know that I wasn't being deceived by a lying spirit....and that dream was when I was way young in my spiritual growth.
 

101G

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I am always eager to learn more....and some of these things I have seen in dreams and visions I never shared with anyone until lately....so it's kind of reassuring to know that I wasn't being deceived by a lying spirit....and that dream was when I was way young in my spiritual growth.
That is a good testomony for us all. God have been working on us form childhood. as you, also with me, my first encounter with GOD was an amazing one. and lol and behold of all things it dealt with money.. (smile), but in a good way. and God will appear to us as said in may ways for the prophet Hosea in 12:10 said this, "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets". for in Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions". that word prophesy means,
H5012 נָבָא naba' (naw-ɓaw') v.
to prophesy, i.e. speak (or sing) by inspiration (in prediction or simple discourse).
[a primitive root]
KJV: prophesy(-ing), make self a prophet.
DO ONE KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS? "to prophesy, i.e. speak (or sing) by inspiration" IT MEANS TO PREACH, PROPHETS PREACH. JOHN THE BAPTIST WAS A PROPHET, AND HE PREACHED. Matthew 3:1 "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea" BINGO there it is. what was John doing? had a prepaired sermon for sunday? no. he was "Speaking" of the things of God. then came another preacher right behind him, Matthew 4:23 "And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people". was not our Lord Jesus a prophet. did not Moses say one will rise like a prophet like me?. will there you have the two witness. see how the bible connect when studying one subject another one comes up in confirmation. just as Jonah who was a prophet preached, see Jonah 3:1 & 2. so prophets "preach", male and females/handmaids. lets see it clearly. the very next verse.

Joel 2:29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit". (STOP, hold the press, verse 29 open the door to all, men and women), listen, "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit". see many just read past the term "servants". it means, bondman, (bond-)servant. now Paul, Romans 1:1 "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God"

SERVANT, it's the Greek word,
G1401 δοῦλος doulos (d̮ou'-los) n.
1. (involuntarily) a slave.
2. (of necessity) a bond-servant.
3. (figuratively) a voluntary, fully devoted servant.
{literal or figurative, involuntary or voluntary; frequently, therefore in a qualified sense of subjection or subserviency}
[from G1210]
KJV: bond(-man), servant

there he is a" BOND-MAN, SERVANT for the Lord.

see this is how I know that woman can preach, pastor, and TEACH in the body of Christ. for Joel said, "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit"

what's a "handmaid?", a FEMALE servant, just what the apostle Paul is in a female gender... (smile). see, when one is studying one topic, information comes up in about another topic. for the term handmaid is the Greek word,
H8198 שִׁפחָה shiphchah (shif-chaw') n-f.
a maidservant, female slave (as a member of the household).
[feminine from an unused root meaning to spread out (as a family, see H4940)]
KJV: (bond-, hand-)maid(-en, -servant), wench, bondwoman, womanservant.
Compare: H519
See also: H4940

so a "Handmaid" is a "FEMALE" SERVANT, or a "bondwoman, womanservant"

by doing this research today, this just gave me more ammunition in my stance on that women can Pastor, preach, and Teach in God's Holy Church.

So Handmaid is just the female equivelent of a male in the same position. Just as our sister Phebe, a ( succourer), or the feminine of a derivative of a bishop/Pastor, G4291 in the same position.

H2S I hope you're copying this down for future reference. this is some good info, so the Spirit and his Gifts are for males as well as "FEMALES".

aint GOD is Good, we learn (or at least I did), something new today in God Holy Word. praise God.


now next post I hope, the 1/3rd of angels that fell from heaven? again not saying that any is right or wrong, but for our edification.

PS REMEMBER, any who follow this topice if I post something you don't understand, please ask question. as my motto states,

"where there is knowledge, stay not ignorant".

PICJAG.
 
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Heart2Soul

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That is a good testomony for us all. God have been working on us form childhood. as you, also with me, my first encounter with GOD was an amazing one. and lol and behold of all things it dealt with money.. (smile), but in a good way. and God will appear to us as said in may ways for the prophet Hosea in 12:10 said this, "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets". for in Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions". that word prophesy means,
H5012 נָבָא naba' (naw-ɓaw') v.
to prophesy, i.e. speak (or sing) by inspiration (in prediction or simple discourse).
[a primitive root]
KJV: prophesy(-ing), make self a prophet.
DO ONE KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS? "to prophesy, i.e. speak (or sing) by inspiration" IT MEANS TO PREACH, PROPHETS PREACH. JOHN THE BAPTIST WAS A PROPHET, AND HE PREACHED. Matthew 3:1 "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea" BINGO there it is. what was John doing? had a prepaired sermon for sunday? no. he was "Speaking" of the things of God. then came another preacher right behind him, Matthew 4:23 "And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people". was not our Lord Jesus a prophet. did not Moses say one will rise like a prophet like me?. will there you have the two witness. see how the bible connect when studying one subject another one comes up in confirmation. just as Jonah who was a prophet preached, see Jonah 3:1 & 2. so prophets "preach", male and females/handmaids. lets see it clearly. the very next verse.

Joel 2:29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit". (STOP, hold the press, verse 29 open the door to all, men and women), listen, "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit". see many just read past the term "servants". it means, bondman, (bond-)servant. now Paul, Romans 1:1 "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God"

SERVANT, it's the Greek word,
G1401 δοῦλος doulos (d̮ou'-los) n.
1. (involuntarily) a slave.
2. (of necessity) a bond-servant.
3. (figuratively) a voluntary, fully devoted servant.
{literal or figurative, involuntary or voluntary; frequently, therefore in a qualified sense of subjection or subserviency}
[from G1210]
KJV: bond(-man), servant

there he is a" BOND-MAN, SERVANT for the Lord.

see this is how I know that woman can preach, pastor, and TEACH in the body of Christ. for Joel said, "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit"

what's a "handmaid?", a FEMALE servant, just what the apostle Paul is in a female gender... (smile). see, when one is studying one topic, information comes up in about another topic. for the term handmaid is the Greek word,
H8198 שִׁפחָה shiphchah (shif-chaw') n-f.
a maidservant, female slave (as a member of the household).
[feminine from an unused root meaning to spread out (as a family, see H4940)]
KJV: (bond-, hand-)maid(-en, -servant), wench, bondwoman, womanservant.
Compare: H519
See also: H4940

so a "Handmaid" is a "FEMALE" SERVANT, or a "bondwoman, womanservant"

by doing this research today, this just gave me more ammunition in my stance on that women can Pastor, preach, and Teach in God's Holy Church.

So Handmaid is just the female equivelent of a male in the same position. Just as our sister Phebe, a ( succourer), or the feminine of a derivative of a bishop/Pastor, G4291 in the same position.

H2S I hope you're copying this down for future reference. this is some good info, so the Spirit and his Gifts are for males as well as "FEMALES".

aint GOD is Good, we learn (or at least I did), something new today in God Holy Word. praise God.


now next post I hope, the 1/3rd of angels that fell from heaven? again not saying that any is right or wrong, but for our edification.

PS REMEMBER, any who follow this topice if I post something you don't understand, please ask question. as my motto states,

"where there is knowledge, stay not ignorant".

PICJAG.

I have always believed there are male and female servants who serve as vessels for Him to pour His gifts through.
Deborah was a judge and a prophetess in the OT and even generals would consult with her before engaging in battle.
 

101G

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I have always believed there are male and female servants who serve as vessels for Him to pour His gifts through.
Deborah was a judge and a prophetess in the OT and even generals would consult with her before engaging in battle.
YES, you are correct, and there are many more, who many has not heard of, like Huldah the prophetess out of 2 Chronicles 34.
when a book of the law was found in the temple, king Josiah sent men to Huldah, (the prophetess), to enquire of the Lord

SAY WHAT! men enquire of the Lord by a WOMAN.... :eek: yes, a woman... another, :eek: LOL, oh yes, a woman had to guide these men in the Lord.

yes keep on studying H2S.

PICJAG.
 
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Heart2Soul

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YES, you are correct, and there are many more, who many has not heard of, like Huldah the prophetess out of 2 Chronicles 34.
when a book of the law was found in the temple, king Josiah sent men to Huldah, (the prophetess), to enquire of the Lord

SAY WHAT! men enquire of the Lord by a WOMAN.... :eek: yes, a woman... another, :eek: LOL, oh yes, a woman had to guide these men in the Lord.

yes keep on studying H2S.

PICJAG.
 

101G

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Now a third of the angels that was thrown, or kicked out of heaven.
again not saying that any is right or wrong, but for our edification to know and to consider.
Many christian attribute this thinking to what was written in Revelation chapter 12. Let's see if we can shed some light on the subject.
this might be a little long, but copy and past it into your WP.

in order to understand this 1/3rd of angelas we need to take this from the top.

Symbolic Meaning to understand chapter 12
Woman = represent a Church, (the remnant of Israel, the church in the wilderness)
Dragon = a person, be it representative of a political, or religious power.
Red in this chapter = blood
Stars = messenger, (human, or angelic).
Sun = gospel, or word of God
Moon = Mosaic Law


Verse 3 “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his head”.
Now this is interesting, notice the words “great”, and “dragon”, "appeared", having seven heads. in the bible seven means complete, or fulfilled, or absolute, or complete control. it also means coming to an end. This great dragon is represented by King Herod “the great” as he is sometimes called. this title is symbolic, and we will see. the devil who is a spirit get others to do his dirty work, he just work behind the scenes. red here means blood, for this king had much blood on his hands. supporting scriptures, Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men”. The ten horns is the power of the Roman Empire, which he ruled by. King Herod power was supported by that power, the Roman Empire. so clearly he is a bloody dragon. as said, keep one hand on chapter 12 of revelation, and the other on Matthews chapter 2.

NOW WE COME TO WHAT WE WERE WAS LOOKING FOR,"the third of angels that fell from heaven".

Verse 4. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born”.
The main key words here is the word, “tail”, and “of “, as in “of” heaven, and not in heaven, about the stars. stars here is symbolic. stars do not necessary , or automatically means angels. in this verse it means men, natural men. those on earth that had heavenly information, or a message. that’s the symbolization used here of , of, of, heavenly stars. when reading about the birth of Jesus, revelation chapter 12, it correspond to a tee in the matthews account of Christ birth. Matthews chapter 2 tells how Herod the king tried to kill the baby Jesus. it say that the dragon drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to earth, this to me is not a persuasion to follow the dragon, but an attempt by the dragon to use someone to gain heavenly knowledge. it said that his tail “DREW” the THIRD part of the stars of heaven. drew here, is another word for "to gather together". so who did king Herod drew, or gathered together?. it's the stars or messengers that is on earth, with the heavenly knowledge of where the babe is to be born at. (I'll show this by scripture). Herod the king called/drew, or gathered together unto him his aids, to find out about the new born King, that the wise men came to worship. he wanted to know where the child was born at, so that he may kill the babe, (he stood ready to kill). as said, the word drew, past tense, mean "to gather", or draw together. king Herod inquired of the men of God, (Heavenly messengers, or Godly men), as to where the babe was born at. lets pick up the account in the scriptures. Matt 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests,(1 part), and scribes, (2 part), of the people together, (there it is, of the people, not angels in heaven). he demanded of them where Christ should be born". these men was of God, who should know the things of God, and they did. scripture, Matt 2:5 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel". this is found in Micah 5. here, it is confirm that the babe came out of Judah. Now lets get the third part, the wise men. Matthews 2:7 “ Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared”. There is the third part, the wise men. the scriptures said that the dragon, drew a third part, “of”, the stars, “of”, heaven. There you have it, a third part of the STARS, are messengers, human men who had the word of God in writtings.

lets recap, Matthews 2:4, 1/3 chief priests, 2/3 scribes, and our 3/3 the wise men. BINGO, there it is, not angles, but men who are messengers/stars.
see how the wisdom of God work to bring out the correct information. only Lucifer fell, scripture, Isaiah 14:12 " How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit”.

God word without a doubt lets us know that these stars here in chapter 12 are men, just read matthews chapter 2. but Jude1:12 tells us also that thes are men, here false prophets. "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, (there they are), to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever".

who are these spots, the clouds without water, who fruits withereth, raging waves of the sea, these wandering “stars”. so who are they, men or angels?. a reading of the whole chapter will revealed who they are. But lets see them in a few verses. Jude verse 4 "For there are certain “men” crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ”. BINGO. now verse 11, these same men are describe again, "Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core". now the identifying verse of these men one more time,

these are men, and not angels. notice the identities in verse 13, " wandering stars". so as we know now, backed up with scripture that these stars are men, ..... on earth, and not angels in heaven. “and the dragon stood before
the woman ready to devoue”. Matthews 2:8 “ And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also”. The word devour is to kill. scripture: Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men".

So we see the real dragon being represented/ or is symbolic in the person of king Herod. And the woman, symbolic of the church in the wilderness, (Judah). And the child born is the male child the Lord Jesus, the HEAD of the church, the chief cornerstone. the 3rd of stars was 1 the chief priest, 2 scribes, and 3 the wise men, the THREE PARTS.

we hope this helped someone in their understanding of the 1/3 of stares that fell.

PICJAG.
 
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Now a third of the angels that was thrown, or kicked out of heaven.
again not saying that any is right or wrong, but for our edification to know and to consider.
Many christian attribute this thinking to what was written in Revelation chapter 12. Let's see if we can shed some light on the subject.
this might be a little long, but copy and past it into your WP.

in order to understand this 1/3rd of angelas we need to take this from the top.

Symbolic Meaning to understand chapter 12
Woman = represent a Church, (the remnant of Israel, the church in the wilderness)
Dragon = a person, be it representative of a political, or religious power.
Red in this chapter = blood
Stars = messenger, (human, or angelic).
Sun = gospel, or word of God
Moon = Mosaic Law


Verse 3 “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his head”.
Now this is interesting, notice the words “great”, and “dragon”, "appeared", having seven heads. in the bible seven means complete, or fulfilled, or absolute, or complete control. it also means coming to an end. This great dragon is represented by King Herod “the great” as he is sometimes called. this title is symbolic, and we will see. the devil who is a spirit get others to do his dirty work, he just work behind the scenes. red here means blood, for this king had much blood on his hands. supporting scriptures, Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men”. The ten horns is the power of the Roman Empire, which he ruled by. King Herod power was supported by that power, the Roman Empire. so clearly he is a bloody dragon. as said, keep one hand on chapter 12 of revelation, and the other on Matthews chapter 2.

NOW WE COME TO WHAT WE WERE WAS LOOKING FOR,"the third of angels that fell from heaven".

Verse 4. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born”.
The main key words here is the word, “tail”, and “of “, as in “of” heaven, and not in heaven, about the stars. stars here is symbolic. stars do not necessary , or automatically means angels. in this verse it means men, natural men. those on earth that had heavenly information, or a message. that’s the symbolization used here of , of, of, heavenly stars. when reading about the birth of Jesus, revelation chapter 12, it correspond to a tee in the matthews account of Christ birth. Matthews chapter 2 tells how Herod the king tried to kill the baby Jesus. it say that the dragon drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to earth, this to me is not a persuasion to follow the dragon, but an attempt by the dragon to use someone to gain heavenly knowledge. it said that his tail “DREW” the THIRD part of the stars of heaven. drew here, is another word for "to gather together". so who did king Herod drew, or gathered together?. it's the stars or messengers that is on earth, with the heavenly knowledge of where the babe is to be born at. (I'll show this by scripture). Herod the king called/drew, or gathered together unto him his aids, to find out about the new born King, that the wise men came to worship. he wanted to know where the child was born at, so that he may kill the babe, (he stood ready to kill). as said, the word drew, past tense, mean "to gather", or draw together. king Herod inquired of the men of God, (Heavenly messengers, or Godly men), as to where the babe was born at. lets pick up the account in the scriptures. Matt 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests,(1 part), and scribes, (2 part), of the people together, (there it is, of the people, not angels in heaven). he demanded of them where Christ should be born". these men was of God, who should know the things of God, and they did. scripture, Matt 2:5 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel". this is found in Micah 5. here, it is confirm that the babe came out of Judah. Now lets get the third part, the wise men. Matthews 2:7 “ Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared”. There is the third part, the wise men. the scriptures said that the dragon, drew a third part, “of”, the stars, “of”, heaven. There you have it, a third part of the STARS, are messengers, human men who had the word of God in writtings.

lets recap, Matthews 2:4, 1/3 chief priests, 2/3 scribes, and our 3/3 the wise men. BINGO, there it is, not angles, but men who are messengers/stars.
see how the wisdom of God work to bring out the correct information. only Lucifer fell, scripture, Isaiah 14:12 " How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit”.

God word without a doubt lets us know that these stars here in chapter 12 are men, just read matthews chapter 2. but Jude1:12 tells us also that thes are men, here false prophets. "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, (there they are), to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever".

who are these spots, the clouds without water, who fruits withereth, raging waves of the sea, these wandering “stars”. so who are they, men or angels?. a reading of the whole chapter will revealed who they are. But lets see them in a few verses. Jude verse 4 "For there are certain “men” crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ”. BINGO. now verse 11, these same men are describe again, "Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core". now the identifying verse of these men one more time,

these are men, and not angels. notice the identities in verse 13, " wandering stars". so as we know now, backed up with scripture that these stars are men, ..... on earth, and not angels in heaven. “and the dragon stood before
the woman ready to devoue”. Matthews 2:8 “ And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also”. The word devour is to kill. scripture: Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men".

So we see the real dragon being represented/ or is symbolic in the person of king Herod. And the woman, symbolic of the church in the wilderness, (Judah). And the child born is the male child the Lord Jesus, the HEAD of the church, the chief cornerstone. the 3rd of stars was 1 the chief priest, 2 scribes, and 3 the wise men, the THREE PARTS.

we hope this helped someone in their understanding of the 1/3 of stares that fell.

PICJAG.
Well aren't you on a roll! But isn't it in the Bible that Michael and the Angel's under him battle with Satan and his Angel's and they cast them out of heaven?
Well I did my own search and it is in Revelation 12....so this isn't what I was looking for.
Still searching.
 

101G

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Well aren't you on a roll! But isn't it in the Bible that Michael and the Angel's under him battle with Satan and his Angel's and they cast them out of heaven?
Well I did my own search and it is in Revelation 12....so this isn't what I was looking for.
Still searching.
Hi H2S, yes, when the questions comes right after another, some days it's a ROLL. but addressing your question.
Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels".

here the name Michael, not the angel, but the name symbolize the Lord Jesus, IN NAME, and you will see why in name Later, for the Lord is the prince ...... of Peace.

Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. (what happen? a power struggle)

Listen, Luke 10:1 "After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come". Luke 10:9 "And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you".

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:10 "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night".

notice the christ didn't come untill John the baptist came first, (the Elijah to come, who one of the two witness of chapter 11). so the war took place after Christ came. so the time of this war is when Christ/God was in flesh, here on earth. (notice those two words "strenght" and "Power", listen, Luke 10:16 "He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
Luke 10:17 "And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luke 10:18 "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven". "see it now H2S?
Luke 10:19 "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. (that's that "strenght" and "Power" .... in his "NAME").
Luke 10:20 "Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven". BINGO, see when one say in heaven, listen, Ephesians 2:6 "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus". see it again?

Remember those 2 words, "strenght" and "Power". Ephesians 6:10 "Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

NOW LETS PICK BACK UP IN REVELATION,
Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death". see the war symbolic in heaven was here on earth, just because a vision is seen in heaven do not necessary mean it took place in the actual heavens ... :) understand that?

Revelation 12:12 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

now a revelation for you H2S, what do this term "HEAVEN" here in these scriptures means? it's the Greek term
G3772 οὐρανός ouranos (ou-ra-nos') n.
1. the sky.
2. (by extension) heaven (as the abode of God)
.
3. (by implication) happiness, power, eternity.
4. (specially) the Gospel (Christianity).
[perhaps from an obsolete oro “to rise or rear up” (perhaps akin to G142) through the idea of elevation]
KJV: air, heaven(-ly), sky
See also: G3735, G142

see that definition #1, "Sky", yes, the sky right here on planet EARTH. remember Satian is the god of this world, or rather was, for he is identified as the "PRINCE of the AIR", and our AIR is our SKY. listen, Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".

see H2S, and understand this. just because a vision is given in heaven, find out what heaven it is speaking of. and also, just because a vision is shown in heaven don't mean it took place in heaven. ok..... this is for your edification. see I had to lear this also, now you know it. this is what these christian boards are for, us to learn more.

conclusion: the war in heaven was right here on earth, only the power of the devil was overcomed by the power of God in the name of the Lord Jesus by us his children.

Note: just for you H2S. that why the Lord Jesus said while in flesh, "my Father is greater than I", why? because he was still in flesh and blood. but when he went to the Father, "I go to my Father", no longer blood now .... "ALL POWER" ... :D is given into him. this is why it is so important to used that NAME... "JESUS" for the child of God have "POWER" over the enemy. what did the scriptures say, the battle is not your but the Lord. "Whatever you do or say do it all in the Name of the Lord Jesus. SO STAND. Glory to God.

I hope that helped, if any question, just ask.


PICJAG.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Hi H2S, yes, when the questions comes right after another, some days it's a ROLL. but addressing your question.
Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels".

here the name Michael, not the angel, but the name symbolize the Lord Jesus, IN NAME, and you will see why in name Later, for the Lord is the prince ...... of Peace.

Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. (what happen? a power struggle)

Listen, Luke 10:1 "After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come". Luke 10:9 "And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you".

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:10 "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night".

notice the christ didn't come untill John the baptist came first, (the Elijah to come, who one of the two witness of chapter 11). so the war took place after Christ came. so the time of this war is when Christ/God was in flesh, here on earth. (notice those two words "strenght" and "Power", listen, Luke 10:16 "He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
Luke 10:17 "And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luke 10:18 "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven". "see it now H2S?
Luke 10:19 "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. (that's that "strenght" and "Power" .... in his "NAME").
Luke 10:20 "Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven". BINGO, see when one say in heaven, listen, Ephesians 2:6 "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus". see it again?

Remember those 2 words, "strenght" and "Power". Ephesians 6:10 "Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

NOW LETS PICK BACK UP IN REVELATION,
Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death". see the war symbolic in heaven was here on earth, just because a vision is seen in heaven do not necessary mean it took place in the actual heavens ... :) understand that?

Revelation 12:12 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

now a revelation for you H2S, what do this term "HEAVEN" here in these scriptures means? it's the Greek term
G3772 οὐρανός ouranos (ou-ra-nos') n.
1. the sky.
2. (by extension) heaven (as the abode of God)
.
3. (by implication) happiness, power, eternity.
4. (specially) the Gospel (Christianity).
[perhaps from an obsolete oro “to rise or rear up” (perhaps akin to G142) through the idea of elevation]
KJV: air, heaven(-ly), sky
See also: G3735, G142

see that definition #1, "Sky", yes, the sky right here on planet EARTH. remember Satian is the God of this world, or rather was, for he is identified as the "PRINCE of the AIR", and our AIR is our SKY. listen, Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".

see H2S, and understand this. just because a vision is given in heaven, find out what heaven it is speaking of. and also, just because a vision is shown in heaven don't mean it took place in heaven. ok..... this is for your edification. see I had to lear this also, now you know it. this is what these christian boards are for, us to learn more.

conclusion: the war in heaven was right here on earth, only the power of the devil was overcomed by the power of God in the name of the Lord Jesus by us his children.

Note: just for you H2S. that why the Lord Jesus said while in flesh, "my Father is greater than I", why? because he was still in flesh and blood. but when he went to the Father, "I go to my Father", no longer blood now .... "ALL POWER" ... :D is given into him. this is why it is so important to used that NAME... "JESUS" for the child of God have "POWER" over the enemy. what did the scriptures say, the battle is not your but the Lord. "Whatever you do or say do it all in the Name of the Lord Jesus. SO STAND. Glory to God.

I hope that helped, if any question, just ask.


PICJAG.
It is mind boggling!....this I want to read a few times and ask the Holy Spirit for the revelation as well. Heaven has always been a subject I had difficulty understanding...even when seeking the Holy Spirit on it.
 

101G

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It is mind boggling!....this I want to read a few times and ask the Holy Spirit for the revelation as well. Heaven has always been a subject I had difficulty understanding...even when seeking the Holy Spirit on it.
Just keep asking and observe what he has already given you. sometimes we look for what we think is the answer. and God has already given it to us.

so keep asking and looking, he will give you what you need and ask for. and GREAT let the Holy Spirit the GRAND teacher and only teacher of all times guide you in this.

PICJAG
 

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Mankind in the (FLESH)was created around that time,however before God destroyed the earth we were in our spiritual bodies for like millions of years,conjecture of the time as you stated.The reason we were made flesh is because of the fact that satan rebelled.In other words had satan not rebelled we never would had been made flesh.

satan led a coup and 1/3 of us followed him,God at that time could have killed him and all that followed,instead He destroyed the age,and His plan was for us to be born of woman,with no remembrance of that time.Not to say that all who are born of flesh followed him(satan)but He still had to have some to carry out His plan,to get those who did back to Him.

Here's a link with a footprint that's millions of years old

Footprint in Stone 50 Million Years Old.

That's also why some were ordained before this earth age as they were already judged ,example the below

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

NEW TESTAMENT, theseason.org

I am not going to deal with everything in your post, just these. I cannot find anywhere in scripture where it says we were in spiritual bodies for millions of years before God destroyed the earth. The only time he has done that is at the time of Noah and they were certainly not in spiritual bodies.

A third of us did not follow Satan. A third of the angels did.

Ordination is a concept of man. God has nothing at all to do with it.