The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And the point is that you DON'T abide in Christ 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year without stumbling.
You are BEING sanctified and BEING made perfect. You ain't there yet, so I suggest you get over yourself.

The Pharisees thought as YOU do - and look what Jesus said about THEM . . .
Hey, I don't think I'm there yet either.

Phl 3:12, Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Phl 3:13, Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Phl 3:14, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Phl 3:15, Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
 
Last edited:

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It seems to me, @Truther, that the ghost that your Jesus gave up to the Father (Luke 23:46) was the human spirit of Jesus.

That would make Jesus in us less than God (i.e. Christ in you, the hope of glory, Colossians 1:27).

Nevertheless the following passage tells us that we can be filled with all the fulness of the Lord God (Christ):

Eph 3:16, That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17, That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19, And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Eph 3:20, Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
The Holy Ghost in Luke 4:1 that Jesus had was the Father inside him.
He admitted that the Father inside him was his power source.
The power source left him, still alive, on the cross.
The power source resurrected him and made him an omnipresent, quickening spirit.
The power source fully indwelled his omnipresent human, spirit body.
The power source lights the heavens THROUGH Jesus' quckening spirit body in Rev 21.

Yes, Jesus was made God and given all power....after resurrecting.

And this Col 2:9 effect on his human spirit body, makes Jesus God by default.

This is how Jesus, which has a God today, is God.
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus doesn't have two spirits. The Spirit of Jesus is the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).
No, the human spirit of Jesus is COMBINED with the Spirit of the Father....

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Just takes a little bit of faith in that He can do, has done, what you cannot.
So much for this, huh?....

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
One does not equal 3, and 3 does not equal one.
1+1+1=3, not 1.

Trin math is incomprehensible.
It's not that math that's off - it's your failure to comprehend Bibical language.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, trins say exactly the words of Jesus, instead of doing what he said.

Jesus said....

Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


Then Peter said okay, here you go....

Acts 2:38 King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Then the trin says....

Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:....BaaaaaK perty bird!
Uhhhhh, no - JESUS said that . . .
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You just debunked Acts 4:12....eliminating the name of salvation.

I am a father and a son.

You baptize your disciples in my name.
I am flattered.
Another failure to understand Bibical language.

Acts 4:12 doesn’t refute my point – it completely supports it:
Acts 4:12
“Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”


We’re back to the Knight and the King.
“In His name” is by His AUTHORITY - NOT just using His name only to Baptize . . .
Matt. 28:18-20
Then Jesus approached and said to them, ALL POWER (AUTHORITY) in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, AND OF the Son, AND OF the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”


NOT that difficult to understand, really – for those of us who trust in Him . . .
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It makes more sense if "kai" is rendered "even".
No – “and” makes more sense because “even” is not the only option here.

“kai” can be rendered as “and”, “also”,even” or “indeed”. “And”, “also” and “indeed” and make much more sense – and bolster the Christian position.
Your pseudo-Christian, non- Trinitarian position dies here . . .
True faith does not include within it works. For we are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves; it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

If works is included in faith, then this scripture doesn't make any sense. The person is not saved by works, but is saved by faith. How then is works included in faith? Perhaps I need to ask the Lord to open your eyes to this truth of holy scripture.

Father, open his eyes.

A living and saving faith always produces works if given the opportunity; but works are not included in faith.

We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:2). And when it comes to election/salvation, grace and works are mutually exclusive (Romans 11:5-6 (kjv)).

Rom 11:5, Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6, And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Apparently, you didn’t R*E*A*D my last post. Here it is again for your edification.
Pay attention to the part where it says that these are GOD’S works - not ours - that He prepared for us in advance:

Not by our OWN works, no.
HOWEVER - Jesus states emphatically that the works we do as members of the Body were prepared for us in ADVANCE BY GOD (Eph. 2:10).

GOD prepared these works. THIS is why James is so emphatic that True faith = Belief + Works (obedience) in James 2:19-26.
This is ALSO what Paul refers to as the "OBEDIENCE of faith" (Rom. 1:5).

Apparently you don't believe that Jesus is God.
Jesus said that since this is the case, you are going to die in your sins (John 8:24); except ye repent.

Scripture is clear:

Col 2:9, For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.



1 x 1 x 1 = 1.

Not saying that I'm a full Trinitarian; just pointing out that some of the math does work.
Another lie – what a surprise.

I have stated repeatedly that Jesus is God, as is the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Can you show me where I made this claim??
I didn’t think so . . .
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Another failure to understand Bibical language.

Acts 4:12 doesn’t refute my point – it completely supports it:
Acts 4:12
“Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”


We’re back to the Knight and the King.
“In His name” is by His AUTHORITY - NOT just using His name only to Baptize . . .
Matt. 28:18-20
Then Jesus approached and said to them, ALL POWER (AUTHORITY) in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, AND OF the Son, AND OF the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”


NOT that difficult to understand, really – for those of us who trust in Him . . .
So, would you call any earthly king you meet by his name or just “son”?

I suppose you would, because you call the king of kings, “son” at baptism, all the while, refusing to speak his actual name as in Acts 2:38 etc.
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's not that math that's off - it's your failure to comprehend Bibical language.
There is no such thing as 1 plus 1 plus 1 equals 1.

That I figured out at about 5 years old.

When will trins figure it out?
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Holy Ghost in Luke 4:1 that Jesus had was the Father inside him.
He admitted that the Father inside him was his power source.
The power source left him, still alive, on the cross.
The power source resurrected him and made him an omnipresent, quickening spirit.
The power source fully indwelled his omnipresent human, spirit body.
The power source lights the heavens THROUGH Jesus' quckening spirit body in Rev 21.

Yes, Jesus was made God and given all power....after resurrecting.

And this Col 2:9 effect on his human spirit body, makes Jesus God by default.

This is how Jesus, which has a God today, is God.

It is my understanding that Jesus is fully God from before He was born; and that He descended to become a Man; but that when He resurrected He received a glorified body, likened unto the heavenly angels. Thus Jesus is the chief cornerstone of the Elohim (the Bright and Morning Star).

Your pseudo-Christian, non- Trinitarian position dies here . .

My position is not non-Trinitarian...

Apparently, you didn’t R*E*A*D my last post. Here it is again for your edification.

What you are responding to here, was in response to your last post.

Another lie – what a surprise.

I have stated repeatedly that Jesus is God, as is the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Can you show me where I made this claim??
I didn’t think so . . .

By saying that Jesus is not the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, you have denied that Jesus is God. For are not the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit God? In Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

If Jesus is not the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, then Jesus is not the name of God; and therefore how is it in your opinion that Jesus is God?

Do you purport that Jesus is 1/3 of God; or that He is a 2nd God who descended to become a Man?

I hold that Jesus is God in the flesh.

This is how I know that I will not die in my sins; because I believe that Jesus is the great I AM.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So, would you call any earthly king you meet by his name or just “son”?

I suppose you would, because you call the king of kings, “son” at baptism, all the while, refusing to speak his actual name as in Acts 2:38 etc.
Why would I call ANY king my “son” is he wasn’t??

The King of Kings commanded His disciples to Baptize in the name of the Son – along with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

This isn’t rocket science . . .
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Right, so when Jesus said do it in the name of the son, you don’t.
Sure we do.
“In His name” means “by His Authority”.

Do I need to show you the example of the Knight and the King again??
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There is no such thing as 1 plus 1 plus 1 equals 1.

That I figured out at about 5 years old.

When will trins figure it out?
Matt. 19:26
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God ALL things are possible."


Your lack of faith is appalling . . .
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is my understanding that Jesus is fully God from before He was born; and that He descended to become a Man; but that when He resurrected He received a glorified body, likened unto the heavenly angels. Thus Jesus is the chief cornerstone of the Elohim (the Bright and Morning Star).

My position is not non-Trinitarian...

What you are responding to here, was in response to your last post.

By saying that Jesus is not the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, you have denied that Jesus is God. For are not the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit God? In Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

If Jesus is not the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, then Jesus is not the name of God; and therefore how is it in your opinion that Jesus is God?

Do you purport that Jesus is 1/3 of God; or that He is a 2nd God who descended to become a Man?

I hold that Jesus is God in the flesh.

This is how I know that I will not die in my sins; because I believe that Jesus is the great I AM.
Jesus is God – period.
HOWEVER - He’s NOT the Father and He’s NOT the Holy Spirit.

If you don’t believe this – you are NOT a Trinitarian and have invented a different god than the GOD of Scripture like your confused friends @Truther and @user.
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus is God – period.
HOWEVER - He’s NOT the Father and He’s NOT the Holy Spirit.

If you don’t believe this – you are NOT a Trinitarian and have invented a different god than the GOD of Scripture like your confused friends @Truther and @user.
Was Jesus God when he became a microscopic sperm cell to fertilize Mary’s egg?
Or, after resurrection day?