Revelation 11-the measure of the temple

Earburner · Jan 13, 2020

Willie T said:
And it is also good not to get caught in the trap of believing only WE can be right. That is a sickness all people seem to fall victim to.

I tend to disagree. Every Christian is growing (albeit at different rates) in the knowledge of Christ.
Ephesians 4:11-16
[13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
[14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
[15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Therefore, as I always say:
"There can always be more than one lie, but there can never be more than one truth"- Earburner.

charity · Jan 13, 2020

Heart2Soul said:
Hey everyone.....so I am STILL studying Revelation....and this jumped out at me concerning the measuring of the temple....the outer court was not to be measured because it was given to the Gentiles who trampled it for 3.5 years.....
Revelation 11
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Thank you!

'And there was given me a reed like unto a rod:
.. and the angel stood, saying, "Rise, and measure the temple of God,
.... and the altar, and them that worship therein.
But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not;
.. for it is given unto the Gentiles:
.... and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.'
(Revelation 11:1-2)

Hello @Heart2Soul,

This reed is a light measuring rod. The Hebrew shevet or staff also means a measuring rod (Psalms 74:2; Jeremiah 10:16; Jeremiah 51:19. In Ezekiel 40:3 etc., the object was the building of a new Temple. Here in Revelation 11:2 it is for destruction, as in Lamentations 2:8; 2 Kings 21:13; Isaiah 34:11; Amos 7:8-9. It is also, as in Revelation 11:1 for protection as in Zechariah 2:1-5. Part was holy and part profane.

The Temple is literal, and not figurative as has been suggested. That there is to be a temple in Jerusalem is clear from 2 Thessalonians 2:4, for the Anti-Christ is to sit as God there; and 'the abomination of desolation' is to be there set up (Matthew 24:15).

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

101G · Jan 13, 2020

With some parallels similares of Moses and the Lord Jesus as to who the two witnesses are,

The Prophet John the Baptist parallels the Prophet Elijah.

What is a parallel? a person or thing that is similar or analogous to another.

What is analogous? comparable in certain respects, typically in a way that makes clearer the nature of the things compared. it is synonyms with, comparable, parallel, similar, and equivalent

John the Baptist and Elijah
#1. Both are Prophets.

#2. Both had the similar dress.

#3. Both confronted directly kings of their day.

#4. Both were preachers to the nations

#5. Both have water connections as did the Lord Jesus and Moses. john the Jordan river, Elijah rain

#6. Both Rebuke Israel for Corruption in Their Religion.

#7. They Both Were Victims of Evil Women.

and there are more.

but let's get to the main point of the analogous of Jhon the Baptist ane Elijah, let's make it clear.

Was John the Baptist the Actual flesh and bone blood man Elijah? NO, and I say again NO. but is he in"spirit" and "POWER" yes. is he the Elijah to come before the great and dreadful day of the LORD? YES, without a doubt.

POINT #1. In Malachi 4:5-6, God announced that He would send “Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD and to turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers.”

these verses are parallel to Luke 1:15-17 "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, (the oil), even from his mother's womb. 16 "And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God 17 "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord".

this is like reading a newspaper headline from the OT in the NT. John was to be in the "spirit" and "power" of Elijah, not the man Elijah, but in power and the spirit/character of him.

Point #2.The Lord Jesus identified John as Elijah. Matthew 11:13 & 14 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 "And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come". (one cannot get any clearer than that).
but the Lord Jesus made this same statement again at his transfiguration. Matthew 17:9-12 "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. 10 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them".

now listen to verse 13 carefully, "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist".

this also kills the notion by some Jews who are still waiting for Elijah to come. some have a tridition of setting a table for Elijah.

Point #3. Isaiah 40:2 & 3 "Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins 3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God".

several other points to make here,
(a). 3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness". what did John say? John 1:21-23 "And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 "Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23 "He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias".

my God that's a direct quote from the prophet Isaiah. John said that he is that voice. Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD".

how plain can you get?

(b). "Prepare ye the way of the LORD". that's LORD all caps, I thought the "Lord" JESUS came, and Isaiah said, our God. please read Isaiah 40:3 again.

JESUS is the LORD in the OT without flesh. and JESUS is the Lord in the NT with flesh. how easy this is. men doctrine make it hard to understand.

so the conclusion: John the Baptist is the Elijah to come in "spirit" and "power". NOT the flesh and blood man Elijah. but his "foreshadow".

PICJAG.

charity · Jan 13, 2020

Heart2Soul said:
So this is why I was asking about the significance of the outer court being left unmeasured....are these the Harvest?

'But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not;
for it is given unto the Gentiles:
and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.'
(Revelation 11:2)

Hello @Heart2Soul,

The Temple (Naos = the Holy Place) is differentiated from the Court of the Temple, the temple is owned by God; the Court of the Temple is rejected and delivered over to the Gentiles. (these are distinguished in - Luke 1:21-22).

The outer court is ordered to be rejected; and the reason is given - it is given over to the Gentiles. This cannot therefore be spoken of figuratively of the Church, for within the church all distinction between Jew and Gentile is taken away. For there is 'no difference' (Romans 3:22), both are guilty before God, and both need the same Saviour (Colossians 3:20).

The measurement of the temple etc., is the formal acknowledgement of the Jew again, and the re-grafting of him on his own olive-tree. It is the formal putting back of the Gentiles from the privilege and position which they hold under the present dispensation. 'The middle wall of partition', which is now 'broken down' (Ephesians 2:14) is to be again built up, and this measurement is the proof of it.

The 'court' of the Temple and the city is given over to be 'trodden under foot' by the Gentiles. It is given over to the Gentiles for a special treading down, and for a definite period. The period of 42 months (3 1/2 years) is connected with the measuring. It closely follows it in order of time. We must not reverse the two events.

The city is literal,' the treading down' is literal. God has said it, I believe it - Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

VictoryinJesus · Jan 13, 2020

Earburner said:
all the promises specifically made to Israel, became null and void, being completely dysfunctional. Matthew 21:43

null and void yes in flesh but every promised fulfilled in Him(SPIRIT). Example “I will heal them” yet the outward man perishes. The promise toward “the inward man is renewed day by day.
Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
2 Corinthians 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
They were not cancelled but fulfilled in him. This should be apparent in Jerusalem and God says look above see “New Jerusalem which is free”.

Base12 · Jan 13, 2020

Hey Heart2Soul. I'm not sure if you've seen these slides before, so I will post them here...

Basically what is being shown here is that the Tabernacle in the Wilderness is a scale model of a Biological Cell. More specifically, the moment of conception. In other words, the Tabernacle in the Wilderness is how we all start off in life. Our entire body exists as a single cell...

1 Corinthians 6:19
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"

I'm posting this info because the Book of Revelation is filled with images of Human Anatomy. When viewed through that lens, great insight is revealed.

Heart2Soul · Jan 13, 2020

charity said:
'But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not;
for it is given unto the Gentiles:
and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.'
(Revelation 11:2)

Hello @Heart2Soul,

The Temple (Naos = the Holy Place) is differentiated from the Court of the Temple, the temple is owned by God; the Court of the Temple is rejected and delivered over to the Gentiles. (these are distinguished in - Luke 1:21-22).

The outer court is ordered to be rejected; and the reason is given - it is given over to the Gentiles. This cannot therefore be spoken of figuratively of the Church, for within the church all distinction between Jew and Gentile is taken away. For there is 'no difference' (Romans 3:22), both are guilty before God, and both need the same Saviour (Colossians 3:20).

The measurement of the temple etc., is the formal acknowledgement of the Jew again, and the re-grafting of him on his own olive-tree. It is the formal putting back of the Gentiles from the privilege and position which they hold under the present dispensation. 'The middle wall of partition', which is now 'broken down' (Ephesians 2:14) is to be again built up, and this measurement is the proof of it.

The 'court' of the Temple and the city is given over to be 'trodden under foot' by the Gentiles. It is given over to the Gentiles for a special treading down, and for a definite period. The period of 42 months (3 1/2 years) is connected with the measuring. It closely follows it in order of time. We must not reverse the two events.

The city is literal,' the treading down' is literal. God has said it, I believe it - Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thank you so much Chris for your input!
God Bless

Earburner · Jan 13, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
null and void yes in flesh but every promised fulfilled in Him(SPIRIT). Example “I will heal them” yet the outward man perishes. The promise toward “the inward man is renewed day by day.
Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
2 Corinthians 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
They were not cancelled but fulfilled in him. This should be apparent in Jerusalem and God says look above see “New Jerusalem which is free”.

The point of my argument was to show that the physical nation of Israel HAS NO future in any part of the KoG, now or ever!!
However, as for the Jewish people themselves, the call to repentance and to have Faith in Jesus as their Savior/Messiah, is the only promise that they are to look to, otherwise they also shall remain as "condemned already" . John 3:18.

Base12 · Jan 13, 2020

I will post one more quick insight into the Book of Revelation as it relates to Human Anatomy. This can be overwhelming for some so I will keep it brief. Sorry if this offends anyone. I'm not sure how else to put it.

If the Tabernacle in the Wilderness is a scale model of the moment of conception, then obviously it represents an Ovum after fertilization.

Let us now go to the Book of Revelation...

Revelation 11:19
"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail"

The verse above is the moment before conception. The Temple is 'open' and ready for the Seed to enter. The Ark of the Covenant is where the DNA is stored. The Sprinkling of Blood is where the Male Seed intermingles with the Ark.

Next verse...

Revelation 12:1
"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars"

The Woman is Sarah who is about to become the Mother of us all...

Galatians 4:26
"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all"

The Moon represents the Ovum of future children of the Promise. The Sun she is clothed with is Abraham's Seed. The pregnancy is successful as we read here...

Revelation 12:2
"And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered"

This makes the Dragon angry of course.

There is much more but hopefully you folks get the idea.

Heart2Soul · Jan 13, 2020

Base12 said:
Hey Heart2Soul. I'm not sure if you've seen these slides before, so I will post them here...

Basically what is being shown here is that the Tabernacle in the Wilderness is a scale model of a Biological Cell. More specifically, the moment of conception. In other words, the Tabernacle in the Wilderness is how we all start off in life. Our entire body exists as a single cell...

1 Corinthians 6:19
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"

I'm posting this info because the Book of Revelation is filled with images of Human Anatomy. When viewed through that lens, great insight is revealed.

Thank you for sharing this however, I have to admit my mind is completely blown....anything of the flesh is cursed....so I am going to have to politely look at this with extreme skepticism and bias. Please don't be offended, I may need to dig deeper....but in my spirit my alarms are going off....does that make sense?
Now in the science field....I agree that upon conception a cell was created and began multiplying and forming the physical characteristics of the human body....
I am not totally discarding what you are sharing I just need more information about how this idea came about.
Did you know the earth's crust contains every chemical component in it as the human body? I would say that proves our bodies were created from the dust of the earth!

Heart2Soul · Jan 13, 2020

Earburner said:
The point of my argument was to show that the physical nation of Israel HAS NO future in any part of the KoG, now or ever!!
However, as for the Jewish people themselves, the call to repentance and to have Faith in Jesus as their Savior/Messiah, is the only promise that they are to look to, otherwise they also shall remain as "condemned already" . John 3:18.

However, the Jews don't have Jesus so there is no temple for Jesus to abide in until He returns and this is when salvation then comes to the Jews....So the Jews are ignorant of this spiritual temple teaching or they just reject it because they are still waiting for the Messiah to appear....so to them it is imperative that the temple that was destroyed to be rebuilt so that the return of the Messiah can happen.....make sense?

Earburner · Jan 13, 2020

Heart2Soul said:
However, the Jews don't have Jesus so there is no temple for Jesus to abide in until He returns and this is when salvation then comes to the Jews....So the Jews are ignorant of this spiritual temple teaching or they just reject it because they are still waiting for the Messiah to appear....so to them it is imperative that the temple that was destroyed to be rebuilt so that the return of the Messiah can happen.....make sense?

The reason that Jesus returns, has nothing to do with a Jewish temple!
It has to do with the lack of faith on the earth, and people falling away from the same.
Luke 18:8
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Heart2Soul · Jan 13, 2020

Earburner said:
The reason that Jesus returns, has nothing to do with a Jewish temple!
It has to do with the lack of faith on the earth, and people falling away from the same.
Luke 18:8
2 Thessalonians 2:3

You know that and I know that but the Jews are ignorant of it.

Heart2Soul · Jan 13, 2020

Earburner said:
The reason that Jesus returns, has nothing to do with a Jewish temple!
It has to do with the lack of faith on the earth, and people falling away from the same.
Luke 18:8
2 Thessalonians 2:3

And try explaining it to them...do yourself a favor and research the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem.

VictoryinJesus · Jan 13, 2020

Heart2Soul said:
You know that and I know that but the Jews are ignorant of it.

if we know that then...

Heart2Soul said:
And try explaining it to them...do yourself a favor and research the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem.

...why keep calling it The temple of God then? Why not call it what it is: a temple to offer up sacrifices not acceptable? the vail of 2 Corinthians 3:14-16 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. [16] Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

If the vail which is done away in Christ was removed ...would they be building a temple to offer up sacrifices contrary to “offering up spiritual sacrifices acceptable by Christ” and “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” John 4:24

As the word says if the vail had been removed and they had known Him and the voice of the prophets then they would not of crucified Him. But in doing so they fulfilled the word that they knew Him not. In Gathering materials to build another temple made with hands are they not testifying the vail still remains and they do not know Him or the fellowship of The temple of God.

Earburner · Jan 13, 2020

Heart2Soul said:
You know that and I know that but the Jews are ignorant of it.

Because of their stubborness, and being deeply seated in their religion, only by the Spirit God can they be drawn to Jesus.

Thats why Jesus said this about Himself and us to them:
Mat. 23[39] For I say unto you [Jews],
Ye shall not see me henceforth,
till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

We are those, that come to them in the name of the Lord.
For those who do not now come to the Father, through Jesus, they "are of that spirit antichrist".
1 John 2:22

Heart2Soul · Jan 13, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
if we know that then...

...why keep calling it The temple of God then? Why not call it what it is: a temple to offer up sacrifices not acceptable? the vail of 2 Corinthians 3:14-16 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. [16] Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

If the vail which is done away in Christ was removed ...would they be building a temple to offer up sacrifices contrary to “offering up spiritual sacrifices acceptable by Christ” and “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” John 4:24

As the word says if the vail had been removed and they had known Him and the voice of the prophets then they would not of crucified Him. But in doing so they fulfilled the word that they knew Him not. In Gathering materials to build another temple made with hands are they not testifying the vail still remains and they do not know Him or the fellowship of The temple of God.

Yes that is one of the reasons....I just read the other day that they are attempting to genetically clone a red heifer...it has to be a red one...
So like I said what the Jews believe is apart from what we believe.....that's all I can really say about it because I haven't done alot of research in Jewish laws.

101G · Jan 13, 2020

Base12 said:
I will post one more quick insight into the Book of Revelation as it relates to Human Anatomy. This can be overwhelming for some so I will keep it brief. Sorry if this offends anyone. I'm not sure how else to put it.

If the Tabernacle in the Wilderness is a scale model of the moment of conception, then obviously it represents an Ovum after fertilization.

Let us now go to the Book of Revelation...

Revelation 11:19
"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail"

The verse above is the moment before conception. The Temple is 'open' and ready for the Seed to enter. The Ark of the Covenant is where the DNA is stored. The Sprinkling of Blood is where the Male Seed intermingles with the Ark.

Next verse...

Revelation 12:1
"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars"

The Woman is Sarah who is about to become the Mother of us all...

Galatians 4:26
"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all"

The Moon represents the Ovum of future children of the Promise. The Sun she is clothed with is Abraham's Seed. The pregnancy is successful as we read here...

Revelation 12:2
"And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered"

This makes the Dragon angry of course.

There is much more but hopefully you folks get the idea.

Not saying that you're right or wrong, I read your post. but in Revelation 12, here's something to consider.
Revelation 12:1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars”. take note, all vision given in heaven, do not necessarily means that the event took place in heaven. this woman represent the nation Israel, the southern tribe, (the faithful remnant). this women represent a church, here in the wilderness. by representation of this woman is found in the virgin Mary, (out of the southern tribe Judah). The next key word here is, "wonder", meaning a sign was seen. in the vision was a woman, (that gave birth to a child without a the aide of a man), that was a "wonder", especially in those days. this woman was clothed with the sun, the rightiousness of God, his, protection, and the blessing of God. being clothed in his word, she have his righteousness, the white garment. Israel had been washed, and baptized in the red sea. The red sea means something, washed, symbolically in the blood, (red). so Israel the church was washed in blood, through the (RED SEA), and was faithful, (the remnant) having white robes. the Moon at her feet is the Mosaic Law, a lesser light, verses the Sun, the gospel of righteousness. Israel was walking by a dim light, the law. it was a lamp unto her, (Israel), feet. Supporting Scriptures, Prov 6:23 "For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life", now, Psalms 119:105 "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path”. there it is, “the law was a lamp, (light) at her feet. just as the Sun is a greater light compared to the moon, a lesser light. so is the word of God, (the Gospel) is superior to the Law. and upon her head a crown of twelve stars= the place of honor these 12 stars represent the 12 apostles/messengers, is symbolic of the 12 tribes, that was sent into all the world. the Sun, the Glory to come, shine in darkness which is her destiny, meaning taking the gospel to all the world. Supporting scriptures. Matthew 24:14 " And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, (the LIGHT). and he sent out the 12 STARS, or messengers to go into all the World, supportive scripture, Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"

a crown of twelve stars, or messengers preaching the SAME Gospel. one crown, one message, which was on her head. for a crown signify an overcomer, a winner, victory.

Base12 said:
The Woman is Sarah who is about to become the Mother of us all...

Revelation 12:1
Galatians 4:26
"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all"

The Moon represents the Ovum of future children of the Promise. The Sun she is clothed with is Abraham's Seed. The pregnancy is successful as we read here...

again not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. Galatians 4:26 is an analogy, and Revelation 12:1 is synbolic. Galatians 4 is a comparison between two things. Revelation 12:1 is symbolic meaning, the representation of an object, and not like an analogy wich is a comparison.

again not saying that you're right or wrong, but something to consider.

PICJAG.

Heart2Soul · Jan 13, 2020

Heart2Soul said:
Yes that is one of the reasons....I just read the other day that they are attempting to genetically clone a red heifer...it has to be a red one...
So like I said what the Jews believe is apart from what we believe.....that's all I can really say about it because I haven't done alot of research in Jewish laws.

CharismaticLady · Jan 13, 2020

Heart2Soul said:
I GET IT!!!!! Oh thank you so much!

6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

How can they be John the Baptist and Jesus?

Revelation 11-the measure of the temple

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