Revelation 11-the measure of the temple

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Truther

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The term "a thousand years" is in reference to that vague time period, when Jesus revealed that He did not know the day of His return, but the Father only.
If you listen to the words, "with the Lord, one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" 2 Peter 3:7-8, you will find that it is connected to God's longsuffering for our repentance and salvation, aka the Age of God's Grace, which is NOW, ever since Pentecost.

"A thousand years" is just colorful way of saying for a long period of time, having no desgnated end, until people on the earth FAIL to believe "that God is". Hebrew 11:6
For without faith in God, no one can come to repentance. Therefore, In that day, then shall the end come-2 Thes. 2:3, and for no other reason.

That is what Jesus did know about His return!
He questioned if he would find faith on the earth, when He returns Luke 18:8.
The answer is NO!
Apart from His sealed Saints, alive at that time, all others will have "fallen away"- 2 Thessalonians 2:3.
No, if you see a or the thousand years, it is 1000 years.
This was said 6 times in a row.
It would be akin to Jesus saying, verily, verily, verily, verily, verily, verily i say unto you....1000 years.
 

Earburner

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The millennial reign of Jesus Christ began at Pentecost?
YES! Any other concept of "a thousand years" is "religious speak", and is contrived from the analytical thoughts of the "scholarly learned", aka " "religious doctrines".
 

Earburner

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No, if you see a or the thousand years, it is 1000 years.
This was said 6 times in a row.
It would be akin to Jesus saying, verily, verily, verily, verily, verily, verily i say unto you....1000 years.
Sorry, even if repeating the words "a thousand years", a thousand times in the Bible, according to your concept, it still doesn't make it so.
You have not spiritually connected with "God's thoughts" of WHY "a thousand years" is mentioned in 2 Peter 3:8-9. Verse 9 is your clue.

Apply Isaiah 55:8-9 to the concept of "a thousand years", and then heed Proverbs 3:5.
Now, by digesting John 16:13, It will allow you to fully hear God's meaning of HIS OWN thoughts, about His OWN words, and not what religion tells you.
 

Earburner

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^ IOWS, "a thousand years" is a figure of speech, describing a long period of time to an end, but has no specified date for an end, which says concerning its end, that a different circumstance shall bring the end about.
That circumstance is that men shall cease to have faith to believe that God is, hence the reason for Jesus' concern. Luke 18:8.
 

Earburner

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Well. The millennial reign is a time of Joy an rejoicing. Everyone with plenty. No sick or afflicted folks. No wars. No devils. Jesus ruling on the throne over the earth. Same with the marriage supper of the lamb.

Party mode
So now, you are saying that when Jesus Gloriously returns in flaming fire, when the saints shall be resurrected, and all others destroyed by His vengeance at the same time, there shall be "escapees", to repopulate the earth?

If the time of the first resurrection will have passed, what's the point of anyone living in their corruptible flesh, having no hope?
Think! What's wrong with that picture?
 

101G

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I agree to #2, but disagree to #1.
I may be mistaken, but in all of Daniel 7 there is no mention of Christ's return into Heaven.
Verse 27 speaks of His first appearance and the Day of Pentecost, when the KoG was given to the saints.

"There is no other return" ??
Why are neglecting to speak of 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10?
GINOLJC to all.
First, thanks for the reply. Second, Daniel 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him".

there is only one return to heaven and that's the asenction from earth in Acts chapter 1.

but what I supect where the confusion come in at is the Reign of Christ on earth by sphere of influence from heaven by his Spirit. this is the Church age that he Reign in. see as now, he's High priest who sits in heaven. and he's KING in heaven, and Earth, but he is not on earth in bodly form Presently. hence our Ambassadorship here on earth, because he has asended into the heavens. so he rules from heaven. as in the model prayer. Matthew 6:9 "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Matthew 6:10 "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
so he Reign here by his Spirit until A. the Kingdom is delivered up, and B. when all rule is put down. for we has been delievered or translated into his kingdom. supportive scripture, Colossians 1:12 "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Colossians 1:13 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son". so we're in the KINGDOM, and he rules or Reign.

and it is not untill he returns which I never did neglect 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, which is clearly stated in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 ".

so there is only one remaing return to earth in bodily form. but by his Spirit he Reign now in the Church age, and when this age ends, then start his Millennial rule on earth in PERSON.

Hoped that helped.

PICJAG.
 

101G

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Dan.7 [ 22 ] Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Q. When did the saints possess the KoG?
A. Luke 12[32] Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
Daniel 7:22 was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost.

In the day Jesus (the Light of the world) Ascended into Heaven, we who are born again, are NOW the light of the world, and do carry forth to the world His judgmemt (John 3:18), as ambassadors for God/Christ in His stead. Matthew 5:14; 2 Cor. 5:20
first thanks for your reply. Acts 3:19 "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

refreshing: G403 ἀνάψυξις anapsuxis (an-aps'-ook-sis) n.
1. (properly) a recovery of breath
2. (figuratively) revival
[from G404]
KJV: revival
Root(s): G404

definition #1. a recovery of breath. once alive now dead, one need to be “Born again”. hence the recovery of breath. this recovery of BREATH happen on the day of Pentecost, the “Breath”, or the Spirit is the source of LIFE. so from these verses the refreshing, or the recovery of LIFE is in the Spirit. and that word “presence”, in Acts 3:19 is G4383 πρόσωπον prosopon. It hence denotes any kind of refreshment as rest, or deliverance from evils of any kind. Supportive scripture, Colossians 1:13 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son”.

as for the Light of the world, John 9:5 "As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world". well he is not in the wold right now, because he asended. Matthew 5:14 "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid". that light burn in us by his Spirit.

PICJAG.
 

101G

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Truther said: ↑
The millennial reign of Jesus Christ began at Pentecost?

YES! Any other concept of "a thousand years" is "religious speak", and is contrived from the analytical thoughts of the "scholarly learned", aka " "religious doctrines".
we must disagree with that assessment, and here's why. scripture, Revelation 20:1 "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Revelation 20:2 "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Revelation 20:3 "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison"

so the the Millennial rule starts at the First Resurrection, and end with the Second Resurrection.

so the saying, "The millennial reign of Jesus Christ began at Pentecost?" that's in error.

PICJAG.
 

Earburner

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First, thanks for the reply. Second, Daniel 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him".
I think you are missing on my perspective.
I am discerning that Daniel 7:13 is taking place in Heaven, prior to Jesus being made to be flesh.

It was at that time in Heaven that Jesus was given "a kingdom", as revealed in Dan. 7[14] And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

The prophecies in the book of Daniel were for the nation of Israel (thy people), as the prophecies in the book of Revelation are for the "holy nation" of Christ's church today.

IOWS, the prophecies in Daniel for the Jews, are not to be blended or joined to the church age, albeit there is a spill over into Revelation 13:2 about the 10H Beast in Revelation, as being seen as conglomorate of all the Beasts in Daniel.
Therefore, in its own right, it is the fulfillment of Daniel 7[12] As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
 

Earburner

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Truther said: ↑
The millennial reign of Jesus Christ began at Pentecost?


we must disagree with that assessment, and here's why. scripture, Revelation 20:1 "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Revelation 20:2 "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Revelation 20:3 "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison"

so the the Millennial rule starts at the First Resurrection, and end with the Second Resurrection.

so the saying, "The millennial reign of Jesus Christ began at Pentecost?" that's in error.

PICJAG.
First- Your assessment is 100% error, because you do not understand that "a thousand years" is symbolic of the Age of God's Grace now, and therefore has NO literal time limit on it, because the length of it is determined by God's "longsuffering" and the "faith" of men, or the lack thereof, and not by our measure of time.

Secondly- you have disregarded the words of Christ and the work of His Sacrifice, by His statement:
Mat. 12[29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he [Jesus] first bind the strong man? and then he [Jesus] will spoil his house. See Mark 3:27 also.

Q. Who are satan's "goods" (Mk. 3:27)?
A. Every person who is not born again of God's Holy Spirit. They are "none of His" Romans 8:9.

Yes, the book of Revelation is prophetic, but it is highly symbolic, depicting the whole mind of God, who is speaking in the past, present and future all at the same time. So for one to learn of Revelation by human analytical thought, it is like a child trying to comprehend Calculus. Isaiah 55:8-9
 

Truther

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So now, you are saying that when Jesus Gloriously returns in flaming fire, when the saints shall be resurrected, and all others destroyed by His vengeance at the same time, there shall be "escapees", to repopulate the earth?

If the time of the first resurrection will have passed, what's the point of anyone living in their corruptible flesh, having no hope?
Think! What's wrong with that picture?
Your thinking is whats wrong.

He returns to save national Israel and set up an earthly kingdom from Jerusalem for 1000 years, finalizing the promises to the fathers.

There will be a pre trib rapture of the living and dead saints, an awful false christ preceding the true Christ.been longing for since the fall

The true Christ shall destroy the false Christ and bring the utopia that man has been looking for since the fall in the garden.

The saints shall return with Him to set all this up.....


4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.



Then this will happen....



6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.


Count on it!
 

Truther

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Sorry, even if repeating the words "a thousand years", a thousand times in the Bible, according to your concept, it still doesn't make it so.
You have not spiritually connected with "God's thoughts" of WHY "a thousand years" is mentioned in 2 Peter 3:8-9. Verse 9 is your clue.

Apply Isaiah 55:8-9 to the concept of "a thousand years", and then heed Proverbs 3:5.
Now, by digesting John 16:13, It will allow you to fully hear God's meaning of HIS OWN thoughts, about His OWN words, and not what religion tells you.
If the entire Bible said nothing else than 1000 years, the preterists will redefine it as 1,000,000 years.

Yep, that is what they do....
 

Truther

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YES! Any other concept of "a thousand years" is "religious speak", and is contrived from the analytical thoughts of the "scholarly learned", aka " "religious doctrines".
Pentecost started 2000 years ago.
You just debunked the 1000 years of Rev 20.
Yikes!
 

Earburner

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So 101G, do you think that Jesus performed a small work when He "bound" satan upon His first appearance?

Did that "binding of satan" only last as long as He was on the earth until His Ascension?
If so, then satan was "loosed" after Christ's Ascension.
If not, then him being "bound", shall last as long as the Age of God's Grace is still manifest in the world, while men still have faith to believe that God is.

We both know that all the physical nations of the world are decieved by satan, except one. Do you know which nation is not decieved?

Jesus told us who they are!
Mat. 24[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The Holy Spirit, through Peter, explains:
1 Peter 2[9] But ye are a chosen generation [of people], a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
 

Earburner

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The binding of satan is that he CANNOT enter into a person where Christ has taken up His permanent residence! Thats all it means.

You know the example that was demonstrated in Peter, while Christ was with them in the flesh. Matthew 16:23

Aaahh, but after Pentecost, we KNOW who was residing in Peter then!
Yep! Satan could no longer decieve Peter. He was "bound" from decieving him ever again!

So is the case with all Born Again Christians, who are members of Heavenly Jerusalem, that one and only "holy nation" of God!
 

VictoryinJesus

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Expect thrones. Believe the Lord Jesus. He will also reign from a temple that He, Himself will make in Jerusalem.
I can show you in scripture some awesome stuff you will see during His reign on earth.
When Rev said “come quickly”, it means to reign, not kill and judge everyone.

can say I still don’t expect literal thrones. No more than a literal rod. Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

But if you are willingly to take the time to give something from scripture you want to show, then I’m willing to read it. Can’t say I’ll agree but it is always good to get another perspective. Way off topic though ...
 

VictoryinJesus

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That circumstance is that men shall cease to have faith to believe that God is, hence the reason for Jesus' concern. Luke 18:8.

you never answered. Which earth? The new earth wherein dwells righteousness or the earth which passes away? Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
 

Truther

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can say I still don’t expect literal thrones. No more than a literal rod. Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

But if you are willingly to take the time to give something from scripture you want to show, then I’m willing to read it. Can’t say I’ll agree but it is always good to get another perspective. Way off topic though ...
Okay, here is a passage that refers to the Millennial reign in Psalm 2....


8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.


It is Jesus taking over the earth and the governing powers(heathen) told to submit to him during His reign.

I think this is just fascinating.

This is a divine warning to the former world governing powers as he takes over.
 

Earburner

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Pentecost started 2000 years ago.
You just debunked the 1000 years of Rev 20.
Yikes!
Tell me, did Jesus know the exact day or month or even the year of His return? No He did not! ONLY the Father knows!
Therefore, all that Jesus knew was that it was going to be a very long time. To him it could be at least a thousand years or even more, of which IS exactly the case because....men STILL have to believe that God is. But when there is come first a falling away, and men no longer come to repentance, THAT IS WHEN He shall return