Revelation 11-the measure of the temple

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Truther

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Tell me, did Jesus know the exact day or month or even the year of His return? No He did not! ONLY the Father knows!
Therefore, all that Jesus knew was that it was going to be a very long time. To him it could be at least a thousand years or even more, of which IS exactly the case because....men STILL have to believe that God is. But when there is come first a falling away, and men no longer come to repentance, THAT IS WHEN He shall return
2000 years of wars.

This alone debunks your theory....


Isaiah 2....4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
 

Earburner

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Okay, here is a passage that refers to the Millennial reign in Psalm 2....


8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.


It is Jesus taking over the earth and the governing powers(heathen) told to submit to him during His reign.

I think this is just fascinating.

This is a divine warning to the former world governing powers as he takes over.
Hellooo, the KoG was taken away from the Jews.
Therefore, ALL of the promises except One, were made null and void!!
The ONLY Promise left to them is Jesus, and for that, there are only a remnant that do come to Him.
The Old Covenant promises are not binding in the New Covenant. Thats why He called it NEW!
 

Truther

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Hellooo, the KoG was taken away from the Jews.
Therefore, ALL of the promises except One, were made null and void!!
The ONLY Promise left to them is Jesus, and for that, there are only a remnant that do come to Him.
The Old Covenant promises are not binding in the New Covenant. Thats why He called it NEW!
....making God a liar.
 

Waiting on him

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Okay, here is a passage that refers to the Millennial reign in Psalm 2....


8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.


It is Jesus taking over the earth and the governing powers(heathen) told to submit to him during His reign.

I think this is just fascinating.

This is a divine warning to the former world governing powers as he takes over.
Who do you think the heathen are?
 

Earburner

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2000 years of wars.

This alone debunks your theory....


Isaiah 2....4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Yes! Jesus is judging the nations! See John 3:18. Its still going on, ever since Pentecost.

The saved of the nations, being born again christians, are they who ARE OF that "holy nation".
It is they who do not learn war anymore!! We learn of Jesus, and His Peace that passes all understanding!
 

Truther

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Yes! Jesus is judging the nations! See John 3:18. Its still going on, ever since Pentecost.

The saved of the nations, being born again christians, are they who ARE OF that "holy nation".
It is they who do not learn war anymore!! We learn of Jesus, and His Peace that passes all understanding!
You mean Christians are learning war no more?
 

Earburner

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....making God a liar.
A cheap shot with no NT scripture.
Try Paul, he was well versed in helping us to understand that God excepts no man Jew or Gentile without faith in Christ first!
To reject Christ is to reject the Father!
Don't you yet know, that for all of the Jews and their Religion, they remain "godless" , aka "desolate?
 

Truther

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A cheap shot with no NT scripture.
Try Paul, he was well versed in helping us to understand that God excepts no man Jew or Gentile without faith in Christ first!
To reject Christ is to reject the Father!
Don't you yet know, that for all of the Jews and their Religion, they remain "godless" , aka "desolate?
Not a single promise God makes to anyone is null and void.
You simply think those OT promises were to 1st century Jews.

They were not.

They were for the National Israelis when Jesus returns to save them all per Jer 31 etc.

The church did not get these promises to the fathers, but were included in a teeny portion of those future promises.

Our teeny inclusion is found in Hebrews 10:15-17.

That’s all we get. A small inclusion into a big future plan of God for national Israel.

We are simple involved in a partial, pre- millennial experience.
 

Truther

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Wrong answer!
Try EVERYONE is a heathen in the sight of God, who neglect to believe and recieve Christ.
Correction, future, non Israelis after the Jer 31 effect on them happens.

Sorry, I should’ve defined it better.
 

Truther

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Born again Christians learn war no more!
There are many who are christian in name only, and unfortunately, they "are none of His" , aka "Tares" .
Tares are warmongering Christians?
 

Davy

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Davy, when He stood and said to come drink of Him and you will never thirst again...the metaphor so you say the Lord contrasted with water (temporal) a man drinks of and thirst again. John 4:13-14 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: [14] But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Two waters He shows ...which are you speaking of? The kind where a man drinks and thirst again. Or the River of Life the Lord gives? Are you really comparing the two and making them equal?

You're just not understanding the idea of Biblical metaphors that our Lord Jesus used. Is Jesus Himself literally 'water' to drink? No, of course not. So what was He actually referring to? He was referring to His Salvation, which involves believing on Him as God's promised Saviour. Then in 'other' Scripture, like I have shown, which you failed to even address, God has shown us His literal River of the waters of life is a real... thing, and not just a metaphor for Himself.

Rev 22:1-2
22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
KJV


Gen 2:10
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
KJV

That is the same River in God's Eden that was once upon this earth, when it parted into four heads, the Euphrates, Hiddekel, both which still exist on earth today in the middle east, and the rivers Pison and Gihon whose location is no longer known today.


Ezek 47:1-10
47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.


That "house" is the same "Father's house" our Lord Jesus mentioned in John 14:2. It is Christ's future Millennium sanctuary that will be established upon this earth in the area of Jerusalem. Those "waters" will flow out from that sanctuary towards the east.



2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ancles.
4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.

Ezekiel is being shown this by vision. This sanctuary is still future to us; it has never manifested on earth in our world. These waters turn into a flowing river that Ezekiel could not pass over.

6 And he said unto me, 'Son of man, hast thou seen this?' Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.

8 Then said he unto me, 'These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi even unto En-eglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

All these literal descriptions, even its specific location in the middle east, does not mean a metaphor is being given.

11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

KJV

We cannot turn this into some spiritual metaphor just because our Lord Jesus was using these "waters" as a metaphor for Himself and His Salvation in John 4 when speaking to the woman at the well. Why would anyone do that? Would they also think that those in Christ are going to literally... marry our Lord Jesus too? So don't be silly with discarding His literal River that was once 'literally' upon this earth flowing out of His Garden of Eden. It is a REAL River, and it is coming back to this earth in the future. And just as 'everything' ever created comes from The Father and His Son, you can say those waters represent Him that way also. Yet He gave us more descriptions in other Scripture (like what I've shown above) to show that River is literal too.
 

101G

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First- Your assessment is 100% error, because you do not understand that "a thousand years" is symbolic of the Age of God's Grace now, and therefore has NO literal time limit on it, because the length of it is determined by God's "longsuffering" and the "faith" of men, or the lack thereof, and not by our measure of time.

Secondly- you have disregarded the words of Christ and the work of His Sacrifice, by His statement:
Mat. 12[29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he [Jesus] first bind the strong man? and then he [Jesus] will spoil his house. See Mark 3:27 also.

Q. Who are satan's "goods" (Mk. 3:27)?
A. Every person who is not born again of God's Holy Spirit. They are "none of His" Romans 8:9.

Yes, the book of Revelation is prophetic, but it is highly symbolic, depicting the whole mind of God, who is speaking in the past, present and future all at the same time. So for one to learn of Revelation by human analytical thought, it is like a child trying to comprehend Calculus. Isaiah 55:8-9
I must put this in two posts, but copy it to a WP for your edification.
Part I.
First thanks for your reply, second, we see that you're misinformed. so lets see if we can straighten this out for your edification.
the term, "a thousand years", is just that a thousand years. but what you don't understand is how the thousand years is used. understand, 2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day". so don't be ignorant of that ok.

now lets roll up our sleeves and dive into the word of God and see when this thousand years come about. knowing that a day is as a thousand years to the Lord, then Jesus, our Saviour, have not been gone over 2 days.... :eek: let that sink in. now let us make it very clear to you, so that you can understand clearly. listen, Revelation 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be". so the quickly here in Revelation 22, that he says a couple of times is really going to be explain to you .... quickly, but understandably clear. and in the process destroys the nonsense of Pentecost as the start of the Millennium. First the OT and then the NT.

OT, Hosea 6:2 "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight”.
After two "DAYS" he will "REVIVE" us. do you know what "REVIVE" here means? if not listen up,
The term revive here is the Hebrew word: H2421 חָיָה chayah (khaw-yaw') v.
1. to live, whether literally or figuratively
2. causatively, to revive
[a primitive root]
KJV: keep (leave, make) alive, X certainly, give (promise) life, (let, suffer to) live, nourish up, preserve (alive), quicken, recover, repair, restore (to life), revive, (X God) save (alive, life, lives), X surely, be whole.
Compare: H2331, H2421

definition #1. to live. meaning to be born “AGAIN”. born of the Spirit, for we "LIVE" in Christ Jesus. One must be, got to be, have to be “BORN again. Now Hosea said by God, that this is going on for two days. Now comes the revelation.

A “DAY” in God sight is as, or like a thousand years. So from his resurrection up to now have been almost two “DAYS”. lets get this straight first. we will make it easy for you. from our Lord resurrection and his ascension, if counting from when he left this earth would be near 2,000 years, or 2 days according to God time. notice he left after he rose, meaning he was 33 years old. now if we count from year 0 when he was born, to year 1000 that would be one "DAY", and remember he was 33 years old at the time of his ascension, so a complete ONE DAY would be the year 1033. and if we add another 1,000 years the next day would be 2033, do you follow us?.

to make it easy, from the year 33 AD plus a 1,000 years would be the year 1033AD that would =1 God day. and from 1033 AD plus another 1,000 years would be the year 2033 AD that would = 2 God Days. so the third day according to Hosea 6:2 will start after 2033. which is 13 years away. NOW, KNOWING THIS. from his ascension in 33AD to 2033 AD will be two/2 days that the Lord Jesus will have been gone. so in that time we have as how the KJV can define this word, see above. so the 2,000 years from his ascension, the church has been made alive, kept by the promise, preserve, recovered, repaired, saved, and MADE WHOLE... ect. so from his ascension until 2033 it will have been only two days that the Lord Jesus been gone.
 
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101G

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Post II.

So for two days/2,000 years we’re in restoring, refreshing and preserving. (the bride is readied). now lets back this up.
Acts 3:19 "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

refreshing: G403 ἀνάψυξις anapsuxis (an-aps'-ook-sis) n.
1. (properly) a recovery of breath
2. (figuratively) revival
[from G404]
KJV: revival
Root(s): G404

definition #1. a recovery of breath. once alive now dead, one need to be “Born again”. hence the recovery of breath, the coming of the Holy Spirit. understand now? this recovery of BREATH happen on the day of Pentecost, the “Breath”, or the Spirit is the source of LIFE. so from these verses the refreshing, or the recovery of LIFE is in the Spirit. and that word “presence”, in Acts 3:19 is G4383 πρόσωπον prosopon. It denotes any kind of refreshment as rest, or deliverance from evils of any kind. Supportive scripture, Colossians 1:13 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son”.
what do the model pray say? Matthew 6:13 "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen". BINGO.

FROM, these two scriptures, Hosea 6:2, and, Acts 3:19 one can see the Reign of Christ Jesus, and his reign in the Millennium. within these times Reigning or ruling there are what we call “ages”. there are many ages, here the CHURCH "AGE". some are pasted and some are now, and some to come.

but there is one more piece to Hosea 6:2. listen, Hosea 6:2 "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight”. now the core belief of Christianity. Mark 9:31 "For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day". yes, the third DAY, what did Hosea 6:2b say, "in the third day he will raise us up". my God how easy is it to understand.

did one see that? in the THIRD "DAY". well according to God counting of "DAY(S)" here the third DAY starts in 2034 .... well, well, well. 2033 ends the second day which is only 13 years away. and Hosea 6:2 said in the THIRD DAY, he , he, he, the Lord JESUS will raise us up the third DAY.. and this raising up happens at 1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first". this is the FIRST RESURRECTION. and there are only two resurrections. listen,

Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years".

NOW the million dollar question is, "WHEN in or after 2034 do this first resurrection occur?" well the answer ... NO MAN KNOWS. neither the hour or the day. but can we speculate? yes, but ONLY speculate, for I will not or never set any date as to when the Lord will return. I will only speak what he says. so in the third day he will raise us up. now speculation, ONLY, speculation.
speculation #1. he rose "EARLY" the third day.... :cool:

speculation #2. thes day will be shorten, why? Matthew 24:20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matthew 24:21 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

that's about as far as I'm going to go on speculation. but one thing is true here in Matthew 24:22. there will be no per-tribulation rapture, for the elect will go throught it, hence the reason why the days will be shorten.

see how the bible cast out darkness. so that per-tribulation rapture lie is exposed.

Now for clarity, one might wnat to re-read or copy this post for future reference.

but Hosea 6:2 just open the door to this Revelation. as said let the bible interpret itself.

Hoped this helped, remember Earburner copy both and put them together as one post.

PICJAG.