Revelation 11-the measure of the temple

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VictoryinJesus

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Revelation 22:15 "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie". (WAITE, HOLD THE PRESS. outside of the city are these? but wouldn't they have been burn up in the fiery wrath? ........... or do the "WRATH" comes later at judgment. oh well......
2 Corinthians 6:7-10 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, [8] By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; [9] As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; [10] As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

Which is burned up? (Dishonour, evil report, as deceivers, unknown, as dying, as chastened, as sorrowful, as poor, as having nothing)
Which remains? (Honour, good report, yet true, yet well known, Behold we live, and not killed, yet always rejoicing, making many rich, possessing all things.)

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
 

Davy

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didn’t say He is a literal well. Unless I’m misunderstanding you, your the one saying the water He is speaking of is literal. Hence coming from a literal future River. So we agree..He meant it Spiritually.

That's a sly attempt at twisting words. God's River is about a literal water. It's not spiritual. I showed you this in Genesis 2 about God's River that flowed out of His Garden of Eden, and it fed four other LITERAL rivers upon this earth. You obviously want to deny that as being literal, so actually that shows you're not interested in what God's Word declares as written, but instead desire to create your own 'new age' spiritualism, and that was my point.

The tree of Life bears fruits. So does the Spirit.
Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Ephesians 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

Life. James 5:6-7 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you. [7] Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

Don't be silly, just because those above verses use the idea of 'fruit' adverbially doesn't mean the future tree of life doesn't bear actual real fruit (a noun) to eat as described in Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 22.
 

101G

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GINOLJC, to all. your first quote,
Been there! You are "mixing apples with oranges".
When the NC was ratified by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, the OC was fulfilled/completed and became dysfunctional!
When Jesus told the Jews that the KoG was being taken away from them, all the promises that He made to them, except one, became null and void, as in dysfunctional.
That one promise left to them, is to believe in Jesus. If they can't obey that, then they are completely out of promises, and "are without God in the world, having no hope". Why?
To deny Jesus is to deny the Father! You can't have one without the other. And as you know, "God is no respecter of persons", Jew or Gentile!

1 John 2[22] Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
so we can take this as you have no complete answer to what we were saying? oh well. now your, second post.

Good morning 101G, and all!
Yes! More synonymous metaphors and symbolism.
But lets go back to Rev. 21 first, and discover which city is being talked about and when, after Jesus will have Gloriously returned in flaming fire.
A. When:
Rev. 21[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

B. Which Jerusalem:
[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

A. 2 Thessalonians 1:8
2 Peter 3:10-13
B. The city is Heavenly Jerusalem, coming down in the NEW earth, aka the resurrected and glorified people of God, through faith in Jesus.

I bet you thought that the city of Heavenly Jerusalem consisted of literal buildings to live in.
well lets examine what you said First, and take this one point at a time so that we can dismatle this ERROR one step at a time. and we will get to all that you have said, so first,
you said, "But lets go back to Rev. 21 first, and discover which city is being talked about and when, after Jesus will have Gloriously returned in flaming fire.
A. When:
Rev. 21[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea
".
ok, point to the scripture that says that Christ return in a flaming fire. lets get this in context first. so your scripture please. the I will post my scripture.

PICJAG
 

Davy

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2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

So how are you using that Scripture? Especially since Apostle Paul was pointing to our spiritual body with that "house not made with hands"?

Like Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:50, "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God". What does then? A "spiritual body", one made of spirit and not flesh.
 

Davy

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@Heart2Soul
I would like to add to the above.
I speak from the historicist hermeneutic...Revelation 11 is another example of apocalyptic prophecy which is a preview of history from the time the project is first given. So from John's perspective, he sees 3 principle elements. And all are a repeat of prophecy given previously in Daniel. Daniel 7 reveals in secular language and symbolism the future of nations and empires right up to the second coming. Daniel 8 reveals a portion of that same history but in spiritual language and symbolism from the sanctuary that reveals spiritual history. Daniel revealed in Daniel 8 the actions of a coming power that would grow...
KJV Daniel 8
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sscrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

The significance of the 2300 days had been dealt with elsewhere much more competently than I, but I simply want to point out the parallels between Daniel 8 and revelation 11. The measuring of the temple came after a time when that temple was cast to the ground and trampled upon. When 1260 days, which are in reality 1260 years when the papacy cast down the truths of the sanctuary and set up a rival system. The sanctuary referred to is the one in heaven where Jesus is our high priest ministering as our sole Mediator. The papacy trample upon that truth, setting up not only its own system, but substituting the priest Himself... With Antichrist, which literally means substitute.
Revelation 11 also speaks of the measuring of a sanctuary...a spiritual sanctuary, which is the church. This is the time of the cleansing spoken of in Daniel 8, where the church is measured/judged, prepared for the second coming as a bride adormed for her Husband, for judgement must begin in the house of God. Keep in mind though that unlike many, we must differentiate between judgement, and the execution of sentence. Judgement comes before sentencing... And the second coming of Christ comes at the culmination of sentencing, hence the angels of the harvest know who are Christ's and who are not. Judgement had already taken place... The sheep and the goats have already been divided. The church is being judged as we write on this forum. Now is the time for the cleansing of our lives/temples that the holy Spirit may dwell within. Cast out the idols. Follow the HIGH PRIEST as He ministers in the most holy place before the throne of God. The type of the day of atonement is being fulfilled in antitype by Christ... When He leaves the heavenly sanctuary returns here for His people... Those who have not been cut off from the household if faith... Whose names remain on the book of life.

KJV Leviticus 23
27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.
30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.
31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

Not doing work when facing judgement is righteousness by faith through grace.

KJV Daniel 7
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

That kind of speculation on Daniel 8 and Revelation 11 is actually men's doctrine of Preterism (from preter = what is past). And applying the 1260 days as years also is a misapplication of a component that was given only for specific Scripture, like the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 and the Ezekiel 4 prophecy. The 1260 days of Rev.11 are literal days, just as the 2300 days of Daniel 8 are also.

We are given 3 Woe periods along with the last 3 Trumpets in Revelation. The 7th Trumpet and 3rd final Woe is when Jesus returns per Rev.11:14 forward. The beginning of the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe is just prior to this future battle...

Rev 9:12-14
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
KJV

Rev 16:12
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
KJV

Rev 16:14
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
KJV
 

Earburner

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Still left out the “when the son of man comes will he find faith on the earth.”

Please tell me you don’t only answer questions you want to answer?

You said “which Jerusalem”. Asking “which earth”? One “therein dwells righteousness” and is made New, the other passing away...which Jerusalem’s Faith? Which earth’s Faith?


asking to understand your statement of when no one has any more faith to believe. When the word says “you can do nothing without God.”
Without the simple faith to believe that God is, a person does not, and will not come to repentance torwards God.
Therefore, salvation (the reward) cannot be granted to such people.
Heb. 11[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

That is the faith that Jesus was concerned about, in the Day of His return.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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God's River is about a literal water. It's not spiritual.

was only agreeing when you said He was not saying He is a literal well of water but “THE Living Water” Spiritually. We could back and forth all day and never see the River of Life the same.

Don't be silly, just because those above verses use the idea of 'fruit' adverbially doesn't mean the future tree of life doesn't bear actual real fruit (a noun) to eat as described in Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 22.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

The tree of Life Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

James 3:17-18 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. [18] And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

The fruit “I will give to eat of the tree of Life.” Philippians 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Wadr (just an opinion) turning the fruits of Life (The Spirit) and “to him who overcomes I will give to eat of the tree of Life and the fruits of it” into something to maintain a literal forcing on “River of Life” neglects His cry of “come all you thirst after God and I will give you the Living water of Life.”

Same as the leaves bared of the tree of Life DO NOT wither and is for the healing of the Nations. He saw no fruit. Matthew 21:18-20 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered. [19] And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. [20] And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
 

VictoryinJesus

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without faith it is impossible to please him:

That is the faith that Jesus was concerned about, in the Day of His return.

agree but that is Living Faith of the New creature. Doesn’t answer straight forward which earth is His focus in “will He find faith on the earth” ...the one passing away where without faith it is impossible to please God or the “behold, I make a New heaven and New earth” wherein dwells righteousness?

seems like asking when He returns: will He find faith in that which is born first and passes away, or will He find Faith in that which is born Last and born from above?
 
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101G

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Not trying to get into your conversation, reading some of the posts I have a few question
on't be silly, just because those above verses use the idea of 'fruit' adverbially doesn't mean the future tree of life doesn't bear actual real fruit (a noun) to eat as described in Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 22.
Not saying that you're right or wrong, but what is the fruit of the spirit? see Galatians 5:22 & 23.

and also the well of Water, John 4:14 "But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life".
and that water is the Spirit correct? John 7:37 "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
John 7:38 "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
John 7:39 "(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

if this is incorrect please provide scripture for correction.

PICJAG.
 

Earburner

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GINOLJC, to all. your first quote,

1. so we can take this as you have no complete answer to what we were saying? oh well. now your, second post.


2. well lets examine what you said First, and take this one point at a time so that we can dismatle this ERROR one step at a time. and we will get to all that you have said, so first,
you said, "But lets go back to Rev. 21 first, and discover which city is being talked about and when, after Jesus will have Gloriously returned in flaming fire.
A. When:
Rev. 21[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea
".
ok, point to the scripture that says that Christ return in a flaming fire. lets get this in context first. so your scripture please. the I will post my scripture.
PICJAG
1. I answered you completely, you just haven't figured it out yet.

2. 2 Thes. 1[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
 

Earburner

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agree but that is Living Faith of the New creature. Doesn’t answer straight forward which earth is His focus in “will He find faith on the earth” ...the one passing away where without faith it is impossible to please God or the “behold, I make a New heaven and New earth” wherein dwells righteousness?

seems like asking when He returns: will He find faith in that which is born first and passes away, or will He find Faith in that which is born Last and born from above?
You reading way to much into it. The faith that Jesus was talking about, is simple faith
Hebrews 11:6 says it perfectly.
 

101G

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1. I answered you completely, you just haven't figured it out yet.

2. 2 Thes. 1[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
ok, good, when is this event? at the Millennial, the first resurrection or at Judgment "AFTER" at the second resurrection?


Your answer please.... :D

well that's ok, we'll let the bible answer this for you. 2 Peter 3:7 "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men". and this JUDGMENT happens at the SECOND resurrection. and this in the same chapter you quoted .... Rev chapter 20 start reading at verse 11...

PICJAG.
 
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Earburner

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1. ok, good, when is this event? at the Millennial, the first resurrection or at Judgment "AFTER" at the second resurrection?
Your answer please.... :D

2. well that's ok, we'll let the bible answer this for you. 2 Peter 3:7 "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men". and this JUDGMENT happens at the SECOND resurrection. and this in the same chapter you quoted .... chapter 20 start reading at verse 11...
PICJAG.
1. There is no such thing as a second resurrection!
The second death, yes! But there is no second resurrection. If you think that there is, then please list the NT scriptures that uses those words.

2. Error in your understanding. God's judgment began through Jesus and His first appearance- John 3:18. The separation of the goats from the sheep takes place at the first death. Upon one's death, they are either "not condemned", or they shall remain to be "condemned already", because they did not believe in Jesus, while they still had breath.

Again, for those who die without having faith in Jesus, they are "condemned already".
Therefore, It is extremely clear that their names are not written in the book of life, who is Jesus Himself.
 

VictoryinJesus

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You reading way to much into it. The faith that Jesus was talking about, is simple faith
Hebrews 11:6 says it perfectly.

Impossible to please God...yet with God all things are possible. You say I’m making too much of it but His Spirit fails not and since faith is a fruit...it would be like saying when He comes (returns)will He find fruit on the earth? Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Was asking for help in which earth? Is it the New Heavens and New earth which bear fruit. The New creature born of God? Or what can not please Him being not born of Him but fails? As I’m confused because there is fruit of the Spirit of God. How can He ask if when He returns will He find faith when faith is a fruit of the Spirit?
 

101G

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1. There is no such thing as a second resurrection!
ANOTHER ERROR on your Part. Daniel 12:2 "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
now this, Revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.Revelation 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison"
one more, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Earburner this is basic bible which everone should know... I see it's not so. ok

understand, when he said the "REST" of the dead did not LIVE until the thousand years were finished, if not resurrected, then please tell us how the rest of the dead "LIVED?".

your answer please.

PICJAG.
 
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101G

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2. Error in your understanding. God's judgment began through Jesus and His first appearance- John 3:18. The separation of the goats from the sheep takes place at the first death. Upon one's death, they are either "not condemned", or they shall remain to be "condemned already", because they did not believe in Jesus, while they still had breath.

Again, for those who die without having faith in Jesus, they are "condemned already".
Therefore, It is extremely clear that their names are not written in the book of life, who is Jesus Himself.
ANOTHER ERROR, read it all. John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. My, My, MY, what a waste of time here. oh well.

PICJAG.
 

101G

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While we're waiting on Earburner answer to "how the dead become alive without resurrection", here is a good time to address this misnomer also.
Upon one's death, they are either "not condemned", or they shall remain to be "condemned already", because they did not believe in Jesus, while they still had breath.
"still had BREATH?". I would that many would study this scripture in answer to the above quote. Romans 14:9 and note the word "revived" there and the term "Rose" and understand what it says at the very end of the scripture.

PICJAG.
 

The wind

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Hey everyone.....so I am STILL studying Revelation....and this jumped out at me concerning the measuring of the temple....the outer court was not to be measured because it was given to the Gentiles who trampled it for 3.5 years.....
Revelation 11
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3A
Thank you!


The temple of God is the body of Christ, the hundred and forty and four thousand members that make the body of Christ Jesus. The court that is without the body of Christ is the six hundred three score and six members that fell away, these were given unto the gentiles. Which is to say the world. And the holy city, which is new Jerusalem, which is the body of Christ, shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done hate unto the Spirit of God?



I know it's hard for you to believe, but the falling away happened long ago: and there were six hundred three score and six members that fell away


Let him that keeps the commandants of Jesus count the number of the beast: because it is the number of a man; and Lucifer's number is Six hundred threescore and six.
 
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Earburner

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ANOTHER ERROR, read it all. John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. My, My, MY, what a waste of time here. oh well.

PICJAG.
No error, nor is it
a waste of time?
How so, when all you do is attempt to knock me down, and then repeat everything I say, as if I didn't say it. Yes!! Jesus IS God's JUDGMENT, for us to be saved or REMAIN condemned already!
Either you are in the book of life (Jesus) or you are not!
 

Earburner

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While we're waiting on Earburner answer to "how the dead become alive without resurrection", here is a good time to address this misnomer also.

"still had BREATH?". I would that many would study this scripture in answer to the above quote. Romans 14:9 and note the word "revived" there and the term "Rose" and understand what it says at the very end of the scripture.

PICJAG.
Before you get over heated in the excitement of your self importance, please try to hold your breath for one minute, and let us know if you are still living. Did you notice that holding your breath has nothing to do with being "risen with Christ", but everything to do with the length of life in your flesh, that one may repent and believe in Christ for God's salvation? The thief on the cross had only a few hours of breath left, and then believed!
Jesus is Lord of the dead IN Christ, and is also Lord of those of us who are IN Christ, but still breathing Oxygen.
I will get to your previous replies tomorrow.
Thanks, EB