When were you created

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before or at conception


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Davy

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A very good question and one that gives us insight to reality. A lot depends on your version of creation. Mine is that mankind was created approx 6,000 years ago. We know that Satan was around at that time as he tempted Eve so that means he was there before they were.

Having said that I am not saying that the earth was created 6,000 years ago because the scriptures said that originally the earth was without form and void. It does not tell how long that was for, so the earth could have been created without form and void a million years ago; 10 million years; a hundred million years etc. etc. Any data in this respect is only conjecture, not facts.

Therefore we can only assume that Satan turned after the earth was created and before Adam was born and prior to that he was one of God's top three angels.

The "without form, and void" KJV phrase is misleading. It's just a way the translators chose to interpret Hebrew tohuw va bohuw. If you look up Hebrew tohuw in how it is used in other KJV Scripture, you'll find that in the majority of cases it's about something that was once in a good condition that goes into a bad condition. Here's another example of the phrase...

Jer 4:23-28
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it."
KJV


Notice that above "without form, and void" case was about an existing earth whose mountains trembled and its hills moved lightly, and it had birds already that fled, and cities that were broken down at God's fierce anger. It is talking about the whole land (earth) becoming desolate.

God gave that Jeremiah 4 example there because Judah in Jerusalem had become rebellious, turning away from Him, and He was getting ready to bring a destruction upon Jerusalem then (by the king of Babylon). He gave these 23-28 verses as a reminder of what He did before upon this earth, like a warning.

So is that Scripture a link to the "without form, and void" of Genesis 1:2? Yes, I believe so. There's other pointers in Genesis 1 to that very fact, and also within Paul's Epistles about God having placed His creation in bondage to vanity during this present world. In reality, there is probably a huge unknown amount of time that had passed between God's original perfect (not in bondage) creation at Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2 when the earth is seen with waters covering all its surface.
 

Naomi25

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I think that so many people believe that God can't make a flesh and bone creature such as a human who can think, feel, and believe. Such People think that he had to put something else in humans that separates at death that does all this thinking, feeling, and believing. Well I think those people that believe that, under estimate the way God has created our good old flesh and bone body, especially the brain part.

I don't think it's a matter of underestimating God, or not thinking he could just create a being such as you suggest. But it seems to me that he has created us to be both flesh and spirit. And that should not be a bad thing, or a denigration of God's power. The idea that we 'separate' at death is one that scripture supports. Paul tells us that as soon as he dies, he expects to be with Christ. Christ himself tells the thief on the cross that he would, that day, be in paradise. I'm fairly certain in both cases, the thief, and Paul, when he died, that their bodies lay somewhere here on earth still, silent and cold. And yet we have the expectation that they themselves were 'in paradise', 'with the Lord'. But this is not our final hope. Paul also tells us that this separation was NOT how God designed us to be! We were designed to be beings with flesh. That is why our hope is on Christ's return. It's because we know that when he does all those still, silent and cold 'bodies' who sleep in the dust of the earth, will be awoken and rejuvenated. Just as Christ was the firstfruits of the resurrection, so to shall we experience this resurrection; our bodies will be restored to us in health, sin free, just as they ought to have been before the fall. Thus God's plan for us will be ultimately fulfilled. Body and Spirit one, all of our being praising and glorifying God!
 

Stan B

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I honestly don't think God would say he hates someone unless they had done something to make him feel that way about them. Plus you have yet to show me where in Genesis when the twins were struggling in Rebekah womb that God said he loved Jacob and hated Esau.

I have shown you from Paul's Epistle to the Romans, but you are declaring that the Book of Romans is a lie, and only things written by Moses are true!!

BB says>> "I honestly don't think God would say he hates someone unless they had done something to make him feel that way"

I don't think we have much to talk about here, because you place what you honestly think, above the truth Word of God. Since you don't believe Scripture. When you say he must have done something bad, the Bible declares that it had nothing whatsoever to do with works. But you are also declaring that passage of Scripture to also be a lie.

Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls
 

101G

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I don't know exactly the point you're trying to make here. The word translated replenish doesn't mean refill as some claim. I don't know if that was what you were trying to state or not.
You're correct Barney. if they get an old english dictionary for these old English words it helps sometimes..

According to Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English,
REPLEN'ISH, v.t. [L. re and plenus, full.]
1. To fill; to stock with numbers or abundance. The magazines are replenished with corn. The springs are replenished with water.
Multiply and replenish the earth. Gen 1.
2. To finish; to complete. [Not in use.]
REPLEN'ISH, v.i. To recover former fullness.

Hoped that helped.

Notwithstanding, I do not believe Adam and Eve were the first beings to inhabit planet earth, and whatever happened back there, suggests a punishment wherein the earth became formless and void.
I must disagree with that assessment, 1 Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit".
now if you have scripture that prove otherwise please post it.

PICJAG.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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I don't think it's a matter of underestimating God, or not thinking he could just create a being such as you suggest. But it seems to me that he has created us to be both flesh and spirit. And that should not be a bad thing, or a denigration of God's power. The idea that we 'separate' at death is one that scripture supports. Paul tells us that as soon as he dies, he expects to be with Christ. Christ himself tells the thief on the cross that he would, that day, be in paradise. I'm fairly certain in both cases, the thief, and Paul, when he died, that their bodies lay somewhere here on earth still, silent and cold. And yet we have the expectation that they themselves were 'in paradise', 'with the Lord'. But this is not our final hope. Paul also tells us that this separation was NOT how God designed us to be! We were designed to be beings with flesh. That is why our hope is on Christ's return. It's because we know that when he does all those still, silent and cold 'bodies' who sleep in the dust of the earth, will be awoken and rejuvenated. Just as Christ was the firstfruits of the resurrection, so to shall we experience this resurrection; our bodies will be restored to us in health, sin free, just as they ought to have been before the fall. Thus God's plan for us will be ultimately fulfilled. Body and Spirit one, all of our being praising and glorifying God!

It is a bad thing when it's a lie. You see people believing there is something in us that separates at death that thinks, believes and feels is just a twist of the lie the serpent told Eve in the garden of Eden, "you will not die." Therefore you're calling God a liar.


I disagree that the scriptures support that we separate at death, the thief you're talking about that died with Jesus, wasn't in paradise that day because Jesus was dead for three days or do you deny that? Plus when Jesus was resurrected he didn't go back into heaven for 40 days. Do you deny that? Scriptures show us that Jesus was resurrected into heaven before any other man, so how was that thief in paradise on that day he died? Too many people have this belief concerning that thief because of a comma someone placed in that particular Scripture, but originally the scriptures didn't have commas. The way that Scripture should be is, " Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise." It shouldn't be, " Truly I tell you, today you will be in paradise." As for what you said about Paul i need you to show me the scripture you get that from.

The word resurrection means standing up from death or rising from the dead. So basically you're being resurrected back to life. However you're saying the scriptures say that we continue living because you say the scriptures say that we have something that thinks, feels, believes and separates at death and goes somewhere like paradise. Death is the opposite of life. Death= no thinking, no feelings, no believing because you have no consciousness. Life= you do feel, think and believe because you do have consciousness.
 
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marksman

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The "without form, and void" KJV phrase is misleading. It's just a way the translators chose to interpret Hebrew tohuw va bohuw. If you look up Hebrew tohuw in how it is used in other KJV Scripture, you'll find that in the majority of cases it's about something that was once in a good condition that goes into a bad condition. Here's another example of the phrase...

Jer 4:23-28
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it."
KJV


Notice that above "without form, and void" case was about an existing earth whose mountains trembled and its hills moved lightly, and it had birds already that fled, and cities that were broken down at God's fierce anger. It is talking about the whole land (earth) becoming desolate.

God gave that Jeremiah 4 example there because Judah in Jerusalem had become rebellious, turning away from Him, and He was getting ready to bring a destruction upon Jerusalem then (by the king of Babylon). He gave these 23-28 verses as a reminder of what He did before upon this earth, like a warning.

So is that Scripture a link to the "without form, and void" of Genesis 1:2? Yes, I believe so. There's other pointers in Genesis 1 to that very fact, and also within Paul's Epistles about God having placed His creation in bondage to vanity during this present world. In reality, there is probably a huge unknown amount of time that had passed between God's original perfect (not in bondage) creation at Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2 when the earth is seen with waters covering all its surface.

I have looked it up and it does not suggest that it was in a good condition as the words used to interpret tohu are lie waste, a desolation, desert, worthless thing, confusion, empty place, nothing, naught, vain, waste, wilderness. If all that means it was in a good condition, I will have to throw out all my dictionaries and get new ones.
 

n2thelight

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Since all of us here have had previous lives, the answer should be obvious. We were created before.

Most will look at that as reincarnation ,but that's not true as we were spirit before flesh.
Christ did what He asked us to do,be born of women it's just that He did it perfect....
 

n2thelight

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Isaiah 45:18 "for thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else."

Before we get into this verse, let's understand the Hebrew word used for "vain". In the Hebrew text the word is "tohu", and this is the same word as God gave in Genesis 1:2.

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

The word "tohu" means void and without form. God is saying that He did not create the earth void and without form, but it became that way. "And the earth was" is also a phrase that we must take back to the Hebrew text, for the word "was" in the Hebrew text should read "became". In the Strong's Hebrew Dictionary, the number is 1961. "Hayah, haw-yaw', a prime root, to become, or come to pass, to cause to happen." The earth was not created "tohu" or without form and void, but became that way.

In Genesis 1:1; "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." This is a flat statement, and the purpose of His creation is given to us here in Isaiah 45:18; "He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He fored it to be inhabited:" He "established" it to give it order, and the purpose for establishing it was that it would be "inhabited." It was in that established place that the dinosaurs, and all the other creatures that are extinct today, roamed.

We can go to the poles of this earth and find tropical plants, and sharp frozen animals with butter-cups still in their mouths. The dogs that pulled the sleds can still eat the meat from those thousands of years old creatures. The earth was created from pole to pole with no ice and no desolation, but an event happened to cause the earth to become that way. God is telling you here that He is the Lord, and He created the earth perfect. So we see from this verse that something happened between Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2, that the earth that was created perfect and with habitation, became a complete waste and empty of life. Even to the point of the stars and sun not existing for a certain period of time.

Some Bible preachers would have you believe that the earth is only six thousand years old, However, that age is related only to the family of Adam, the race of "ruddy" complected or white individuals that show blood in their face. That is what the word "Adam" means in the Hebrew. We know from simple scientific fact and physical evidence that this earth is millions of years old, and only God knows the actual time. Then God created all souls and placed them upon the earth, and there was a rebellion by one of those souls, that we call Satan, and one third of all the other souls followed that soul, Satan.

Satan was the one soul that was created for a purpose, and thus was created above all the rest. Ezekiel 28:12 "Son of man [Ezekiel], take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus [Satan], and say unto him, `Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty."

This is his purpose: Ezekiel 28:14 "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."

Satan was created to care for the Altar of God and be before the throne of God.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.".

It was after the iniquity came to Satan that the destruction came to this earth. When Satan's pride overtook him, and he thought himself better then God, one third of the angels or souls follow him in the rebellion. This is what is referred to in Revelation 12:1-4. for the same order of events that happened at the end of the first earth will also happen at the end of this second earth age of the flesh. One third of the stars or Angels follow the great red dragon, and his tail drew the third part of those stars or souls of heaven.

So when this great fall of Satan came and one third of his created souls rebelled, God could either destroy this earth age, or he could destroy His children. Even in the flesh, destroying your children is pretty heavy. God chose to destroy that earth age, and all life forms that were on it, and to start over with with His plan. No one can deny the fact that this first earth existed, with the bones and tracks laid out even in stone. God even talked about the dinosaurs in Job.
 

Stan B

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I disagree that the scriptures support that we separate at death, the thief you're talking about that died with Jesus, wasn't in paradise that day because Jesus was dead for three days or do you deny that? about Paul i need you to show me the scripture you get that from.

It seems that your theology is that Scripture is a lie, and that Jesus is a liar!!

I can't imagine what kind of anti-God, anti-Scriptural cult you embrace, but it is totally foreign to authentic Christianity.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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It seems that your theology is that Scripture is a lie, and that Jesus is a liar!!

I can't imagine what kind of anti-God, anti-Scriptural cult you embrace, but it is totally foreign to authentic Christianity.

You are denying Scripture. Jesus was in hades parts of three days after his sacrifice. Then after he was resurrected he didn't go into heaven until 40 days. You're the one who's denying the death and resurrection of Jesus not me. As I said Jesus was dead for three days after his sacrifice, then he was resurrected but didn't go into heaven until 40 days.
 

Naomi25

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It is a bad thing when it's a lie. You see people believing there is something in us that separates at death that thinks, believes and feels is just a twist of the lie the serpent told Eve in the garden of Eden, "you will not die." Therefore you're calling God a liar.
Well, yes, it would be a bad thing if it were a lie. But there is enough biblical proof to suggest it is not. And it is most certainly not calling God a liar if it comes from his word. I'll attempt to show below how I believe that:

I disagree that the scriptures support that we separate at death, the thief you're talking about that died with Jesus, wasn't in paradise that day because Jesus was dead for three days or do you deny that?

Okay...so, you're saying that if Christ was dead for 3 days, nobody could have been "in paradise" that day. And to claim it makes one a liar. Except, from the mouth of our Lord:

And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” -Luke 23:43

"Today"....not "in 3 days" you will be with me in paradise. "Today". So, either we have a problem with Christ lying or him being woefully mistaken. I don't like either resting on my Lord.
So...logically speaking, since we know 2 things for certain at this point: those 2 things being that Christ certainly died that day, and the other is that Christ certainly believed and told the thief that they would both be in paradise that same day....then the logical conclusion is that while Christ's body rested in that tomb for 3 days, his spirit was elsewhere.
And it's your conclusion that leads to calling Christ a liar or just someone who doesn't understand anything.
But, the bible has more to say on the subject.

Plus when Jesus was resurrected he didn't go back into heaven for 40 days. Do you deny that? Scriptures show us that Jesus was resurrected into heaven before any other man, so how was that thief in paradise on that day he died?

When Jesus was resurrected, he was resurrected as "firstfruits". Do you understand what that means? 1 Cor 15 gives us incredible information on this, but basically it means that his body was restored to one that no longer aged, or became tired, or sick. We see, when Christ spent his 40 days among his Disciples that he ate, seemingly teleported, if you can believe it, and walked through walls. Some of that awesome stuff might have to do with divinity, but it's the fullest look we have of what Paul calls our incorruptible bodies. In other words, a time is coming when we too shall receive bodies that will not age, will not feel the effects of sin. Our sin, or the sins of others or the fallen world.
So basically, in regards to your question, it doesn't matter that Christ didn't go back to heaven for 40 days after his bodily resurrection. It doesn't say his spirit didn't go there during those 3 days. Not then. But the fact that he had previously promised the thief paradise 'that day' tells us what he did during those 3 days.
And at this point in time, only Christ has been resurrected bodily. Everyone else, though they may even now be in the presence of the Lord, they do not yet have a resurrected body. I'll make reference to that below.

Too many people have this belief concerning that thief because of a comma someone placed in that particular Scripture, but originally the scriptures didn't have commas. The way that Scripture should be is, " Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise." It shouldn't be, " Truly I tell you, today you will be in paradise." As for what you said about Paul i need you to show me the scripture you get that from.
I think that is stretching, just a bit. But let's say you're right. Let's say that we discard that conversation with the thief. Is there enough in scripture to still leave us with the idea that one still can expect to see our Lord as soon as we die? I believe there is.

For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account. -Philippians 1:21–24

So, here we have Paul contemplating his work and the persecution he faces. He knows he could be killed at any time, and it distresses him not! Why? Because he knows that to be killed is to be "with Christ, which is far better". To remain, he adds, is to "remain in the flesh". This is interesting, don't you think? He fully expects that to depart will not only put him in Christ's presence, but to 'not remain in the flesh'.

So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him. -2 Corinthians 5:6–9

Paul again, connects life here to being 'in the body' and being 'home with the Lord' as 'away from the body'. It's very hard to deny the picture he paints here...if we are not alive, we are "at home with the Lord and away from the body". Quite simple, quite lovely. But, as I've said before, and if we read the whole passage, it's not the end goal...we are to be fully clothed, and God has an ultimate 'heavenly' building waiting to replace this earthly 'tent' once this age is done. Then we shall, like Christ the firstfruits, but imperishable.

So...my point is, even without Christ's reference to the thief on the cross, there is enough biblical evidence to wrap up this doctrine. And in light of it, I would say that the comma is where it needs to be. Christ was, indeed, comforting that man that he would be with his Lord that very day. I think the question needs to be; why would you wish to take this very real and biblical comfort away from people?

The word resurrection means standing up from death or rising from the dead. So basically you're being resurrected back to life. However you're saying the scriptures say that we continue living because you say the scriptures say that we have something that thinks, feels, believes and separates at death and goes somewhere like paradise. Death is the opposite of life. Death= no thinking, no feelings, no believing because you have no consciousness. Life= you do feel, think and believe because you do have consciousness.

So, you're basically championing soul sleep. But...that's not real death either, in the sense of the spirit, is it? If who we are...our personalities, our memories, our joys, loves, heartaches, all of it, do not end completely...then it is not, by definition, death. And if they continue on in any sense of the word, then all you are supporting is a...spirit hibernation. And not only is there no point to it, there's no biblical support for it either. And also no real point to your argument that all we are is a lump of meat. Because flesh and bones burn up, disintegrate into ash and dust. If the essence of who we are does not continue on somewhere, there is nothing to BE resurrected at the end of the age...nothing for Christ to welcome into heaven or punish into hell. We just die. The end. And again, nothing in scripture to support that.
So, any way you turn it or look at it, there must be two aspects to our nature. The question would be, then, would it not, is if when we take that last dirt nap, if we know nothing more until that trumpet sounds, or if we open our eyes immediately onto our Saviors face? Paul seems to repeatedly suggest the latter. I've seen nothing to suggest the former.
 
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Stan B

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Well, yes, it would be a bad thing if it were a lie. But there is enough biblical proof to suggest it is not. And it is most certainly not calling God a liar if it comes from his word. I'll attempt to show below how I believe that:

Naomi, I loved your response!! You are right on the mark with everything you have presented. You are obviously a very knowledgeable and sincere student of Scripture.
 

Naomi25

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Naomi, I loved your response!! You are right on the mark with everything you have presented. You are obviously a very knowledgeable and sincere student of Scripture.
Ha. Thank you, but I would say knowledgeable enough to know I don't know enough. So often I come across something and say, 'I haven't even heard of that! How have I not even heard that mentioned before?!' I suspect that's what God will be doing for the rest of eternity for us, and I don't mind, learning new things, when they're new things of God, are just cool, don't you think??
 

Stan B

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You are denying Scripture. Jesus was in hades parts of three days after his sacrifice. Then after he was resurrected he didn't go into heaven until 40 days. You're the one who's denying the death and resurrection of Jesus not me. As I said Jesus was dead for three days after his sacrifice, then he was resurrected but didn't go into heaven until 40 days.

I think you are attempting to degrade the omnipresent nature of the Most High!

The One you are attacking is the one proclaimed by the Prophet Isaiah to be the "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

You seem to be driven by some sort of cult-driven hate agenda against the Most High and His power!! Only Satan and his deluded puppets would embrace the kind of evil you seem to be motivated to spread to the rest of the world !
 

Stan B

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Ha. Thank you, but I would say knowledgeable enough to know I don't know enough. So often I come across something and say, 'I haven't even heard of that! How have I not even heard that mentioned before?!' I suspect that's what God will be doing for the rest of eternity for us, and I don't mind, learning new things, when they're new things of God, are just cool, don't you think??

That is the beauty of the way God designed Scripture. Unlike other books, Scripture has us going back every day in a never-ending quest to discover more about God. For me it has been 65 years of my unending quest to learn about God. And after all these years, I learn more about Him each and every day, as I study the message He has left for me.
 
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Naomi25

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That is the beauty of the way God designed Scripture. Unlike other books, Scripture has us going back every day in a never-ending quest to discover more about God. For me it has been 65 years of my unending quest to learn about God. And after all these years, I learn more about Him each and every day, as I study the message He has left for me.
I turn 40 this year, so if God wills it, I'll have plenty more years here to keep learning more of him. Like you, I'm always surprised when passages you know so well can suddenly leap out with something new. That's the Holy Spirit at work, I suppose, and a wonderful reminder of his work in our lives. I honestly cannot imagine how people live without God; He is my foundation.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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I think you are attempting to degrade the omnipresent nature of the Most High!

The One you are attacking is the one proclaimed by the Prophet Isaiah to be the "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

You seem to be driven by some sort of cult-driven hate agenda against the Most High and His power!! Only Satan and his deluded puppets would embrace the kind of evil you seem to be motivated to spread to the rest of the world !

No I simply believe the truth about The True God. I've found many scriptures that prove that God is all powerful and all knowing but I've found no scriptures that say he is everywhere at the same time. The scriptures tell us that this physical creation (universe) can't contain God. The scriptures also tell us that The True God has a dwelling in heaven. The heaven it speaks of though is independent of the physical creation. The
Bible speaks of God as having a specific place of dwelling—the heavens. It records a prayer of King Solomon in which he called upon God: “May you yourself listen from the heavens, your established place of dwelling.” (1 Kings 8:43) When teaching his disciples how to pray, Jesus Christ told them to address their prayers to “Our Father in the heavens.” (Matthew 6:9) After his resurrection, Christ entered “into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God,” states the Bible.—Hebrews 9:24.

These verses clearly indicate that Jehovah God dwells, not everywhere, but only in heaven. Of course, as I mentioned “the heavens” mentioned in these passages does not refer to the atmosphere surrounding the earth nor to the vast expanse of outer space. The physical heavens cannot contain the Creator of the universe. (1 Kings 8:27) The Bible tells us that “God is a Spirit.” (John 4:24) He resides in the spiritual heavens, a realm independent of the physical universe.—1 Corinthians 15:44.

What, though, of Bible passages that seem to suggest that God is present everywhere? For example, as recorded at Psalm 139:7-10, David said regarding God: “Where can I go from your spirit, and where can I run away from your face? If I should ascend to heaven, there you would be; and if I should spread out my couch in Sheol, look! you would be there. Were I to take the wings of the dawn, that I might reside in the most remote sea, there, also, your own hand would lead me.” Do these verses indicate that God is, in fact, omnipresent, dwelling in each of the places mentioned?

Note that David first asked: “Where can I go from your spirit?”* By means of his holy spirit, God can see anything and exert his power anywhere, without literally going there or dwelling there. To illustrate: In recent years scientists have been able to examine soil on the planet Mars, millions of miles (kilometers) from Earth. How? Not by traveling there personally, but by studying detailed photos and other information transmitted back to Earth by probes sent to Mars’ surface.

Likewise, Jehovah God does not have to be present everywhere, or omnipresent, in order to perceive what is happening at any point in the universe. God’s Word says: “There is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight.” (Hebrews 4:13) Yes, Jehovah’s powerful active force, or holy spirit, can extend anywhere, allowing him to be all-seeing and to accomplish his purpose from a fixed location, his “holy dwelling” in the heavens.—Deuteronomy 26:15.
 
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brakelite

Guest
I think the question needs to be; why would you wish to take this very real and biblical comfort away from people?
The scriptures inform us that the real biblical comfort comes from the resurrection.

KJV 1 Thessalonians 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Removing a false belief that provides fake comfort should be practiced more earnestly. Promoting the idea one goes directly to heaven upon death denies more scriptures than there are that support the idea.

KJV Psalms 6
5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

KJV Ecclesiastes 9
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

KJV Isaiah 38
18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

Jesus did not go anywhere while in the tomb.
After the resurrection Jesus said to Mary,
KJV John 20
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

The thief may not have even died the day Jesus did. The Romans broke their legs not to kill them, but to stop them from running away... As they couldn't remain on the cross on the Sabbath.
"I promise you right now, this very day, that you will be with Me in Paradise." Do we not speak in such a fashion as a form of strong reassurance? "Truly truly I tell you today, I promise as I live before you now, you will live again". The resurrection was and is the Christian hope. Paul never promoted the concept of immediate transfer into heaven. He promoted and taught the resurrection. And so did Jesus.
 
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brakelite

Guest
And the idea humans were living in spirit form, having cognizance, thoughts, able to communicate, and having relationships with God and one another... Pure conjecture, and based wholly on very bad exegesis.

KJV Genesis 2
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

There is nothing in the above verse to suggest any form of pre existent life... And that verse is the clearest and most succinct describing man's beginnings.