Must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

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Invisibilis

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John 4:23-24. "But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24.God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

This is not a test. I am seriously asking you how do you worship in the Spirit and in truth?
 

Not me

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John 4:23-24. "But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24.God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

This is not a test. I am seriously asking you how do you worship in the Spirit and in truth?

Hi, I would say, by walking in all the righteousness we see, in any and every circumstance and situation of life. For He waits in righteousness so He might bless those willing to walk in righteousness.

My 2cents worth...

Be blessed as we learn Christ, Not me
 

Mike Waters

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John 4:23-24. "But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24.God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

This is not a test. I am seriously asking you how do you worship in the Spirit and in truth?

My first choice (in the words of the Hymn) would be to "Find a place of quiet rest, near to the heart of God"; A place that I would call 'God's Mercy Seat'

From every stormy wind that blows,
from every swelling tide of woes,
there is a calm, a sure retreat;
'tis found beneath the mercy seat.

There, there, on eagles' wings we soar,
and time and sense seem all no more;
and heaven comes down, our souls to greet,
and glory crowns the mercy-seat.

My second choice would be to find an assembly of Christian believers that least detracts from my ability to worship without personal distraction
 
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Episkopos

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John 4:23-24. "But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24.God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

This is not a test. I am seriously asking you how do you worship in the Spirit and in truth?


God is holy. In the past God allowed unholy men to worship Him in a certain location...the temple. It was the temple that was holy...not the people. But now WE are the temple and WE need to be holy in order to carry God's presence with us.

So we are to walk in the same anointing as Jesus did....exactly the same purity and power. As such we become perfect as God is perfect. But this perfection is not our own. We take on the perfection of Christ by entering into Him by the Spirit. In Him is NO sin. The Bride of Christ are they who are without any spot or wrinkle of sin. (as hard as that is for the carnal mind to wrap itself around)

The truth (in the person of Jesus Christ) connects us to the eternal purposes of God; the eternal origins of creation, the eternal walk in the here and now, and the eternal will of God for mankind....and all this causes us to be found in Him! So then people will see that connection we have in truth....that is our witness to the world. That is what makes us the light of the world.

But people have downgraded the spiritual walk to a carnal striving with sins. There is no eternal Christ in that. There is no Spirit or truth in that. But people are satisfied to turn the truth into a lie. It seems easier for these to adapt the scriptures to what they are already experiencing than to humbly seek the Lord for HIS will to be done. How can we neglect so great a salvation?
 
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Mike Waters

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People have downgraded the spiritual walk to a carnal striving with sins. There is no eternal Christ in that. There is no Spirit or truth in that. But people are satisfied to turn the truth into a lie. It seems easier for these to adapt the scriptures to what they are already experiencing than to humbly seek the Lord for HIS will to be done.

Is that referring to a 'few' people, 'many' people, or 'all' people.
I hope it's not the latter because that puts you firmly in the elitist company of "only I/we have seen the light" folk.
Even referring to the second category puts you on the fringe of 'elitism'.
I'm not sure about the objective of the post in this particular thread if you are only referring to the first category.
 
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Grams

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Belief in GOD and JESUS and know of them and keep learning .......

Reading the bible over and over and over again, you will keep learning more and more..
 
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Nancy

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My first choice (in the words of the Hymn) would be to "Find a place of quiet rest, near to the heart of God"; A place that I would call 'God's Mercy Seat'

From every stormy wind that blows,
from every swelling tide of woes,
there is a calm, a sure retreat;
'tis found beneath the mercy seat.

There, there, on eagles' wings we soar,
and time and sense seem all no more;
and heaven comes down, our souls to greet,
and glory crowns the mercy-seat.

My second choice would be to find an assembly of Christian believers that least detracts from my ability to worship without personal distraction

"personal distraction" <--- This is why I must close my eyes during corporate worship...it's not an easy thing to NOT be distracted during worship, for many reasons and I HATE when it happens. Seems to break the cord reaching up to Him from my heart, my spirit, my whole being! My biggest reason for attending a local assembly IS for Worship, praise and song with others of like mind and...harder even is to find true and lasting and vibrant fellowship. Let's face it, we can get our teaching from many other avenues but, nothing can give you such joy as when among others of the same mind set, singing to The Creator in unison. Fellowship, sadly is so very lacking if one is not of the same "ilk"? If one belongs to the "nuclear" family, you know - mom, dad, kids...there is much to relate to between these but, if you are single, 62 living alone...not so much interest in them. So, I get pretty much all of my fellowship on here! Yes, all stripes on here and there are many I have become close with here. The bickerers will always be with us so, I try to stay out of the controversial threads.
Good stuff @Mike Waters :)
 
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Episkopos

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Is that referring to a 'few' people, 'many' people, or 'all' people.
I hope it's not the latter because that puts you firmly in the elitist company of "only I/we have seen the light" folk.
Even referring to the second category puts you on the fringe of 'elitism'.
I'm not sure about the objective of the post in this particular thread if you are only referring to the first category.

There is no universal holiness. Of course the holy ones are going to be an incredibly small number. Jesus said so Himself. But you have to realize that any kind of productivity or advancement in the world is the result of a very tiny minority doing all the inventing, or the implementing.

If you are too influenced by post-modernism then you will be against competence...preferring the incompetence of the crowd to move society forward...whereas the crowd has always been reactionary and is that which impedes growth. Jesus was condemned by the crowd. He was seen as too elitist...to use your political jargon.

But we need people who know God and know the way. By rejecting those people we are doing as the ancient Jews who persecuted the prophets...and killed Jesus.

But if you realize that humanity is on multiple levels...the majority by far being NOT holy....then you will see that the heat given off by fire of the holy...gives the world light and warmth. Those who are attracted the the warmth of the fire become righteous. And that is how it works.

So by criticizing the fire, not realizing that they who provide the fuel to the fire do so sacrificially...you are taking away the light in the world.

And that is essentially the history of mankind AND the modern church. Nobody wants to esteem others higher than themselves. No one wants to obey the Lord. And the ones who do are criticized by the non-obedient ones as ...elitist.
 

Nancy

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John 4:23-24. "But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24.God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

This is not a test. I am seriously asking you how do you worship in the Spirit and in truth?

I see several different kinds of worship: Corporate, personal and private. Also, I find that our very lives should reflect true worship in Spirit and Truth, as we continue in our daily lives we should be glorifying Him through our thoughts, actions and very beings connected to Him always. 1 Cor. 10:31
Lifting up thanks always to Him for what He has done for us and sharing those things with others (IMO) is also a form of worship.
 
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ScottA

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John 4:23-24. "But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24.God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

This is not a test. I am seriously asking you how do you worship in the Spirit and in truth?
It is a matter of positioning.

When Jesus said "Follow Me", "Take up your cross", and when Paul said, "walk in the Spirit"...these are directives, to leave the cares of this world and the flesh behind ("Get behind me Satan!")

How this is done, is to "seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness" in all things. It starts by not thinking as men think, and relying not on one's own understanding.
 

Episkopos

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Thanks for your response.
I have a question from _

How do you do that?
God has to get involved by our asking, seeking and knocking. Perseverance is required.

There are three things I have discovered as requirements in those tasks that we need to have to be "heard" by God.

1 We need to know our need of God. IOW we need to ask seek and knock with an intensity that shows how much we want Him. A full surrender to Him
2 We need to trust Him completely
3. We need to be willing to suffer loss in order to gain Him.
 

Invisibilis

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I appreciate your responses, they get me to search the truth. In doing so, things are getting clearer.
God has to get involved by our asking, seeking and knocking. Perseverance is required.

There are three things I have discovered as requirements in those tasks that we need to have to be "heard" by God...
Since our innermost being is already at rest with the Truth, why then this need to perform these tasks. It sounds the opposite of the very nature of our innermost being (spirit of God within us).

There is a verse about being "heard" by God.
John 9:31 Now we know that God hears not sinners: but if any man be a worshiper of God, and does his will, him he hears.
...
1 We need to know our need of God. IOW we need to ask seek and knock with an intensity that shows how much we want Him. A full surrender to Him
2 We need to trust Him completely
3. We need to be willing to suffer loss in order to gain Him.
I have a bit of a problem with (1) in terms of 'shows how much we want Him' for He already knows what is in our heart. Also, the word 'need' comes from our 'needy false-self', and not from our innermost being. However, I do grasp 'A full surrender to Him'; which already requires (2) and (3), for they are states of unconditionality.

Okay, now I know how to be heard by God, by worshiping God and do His will.
So, this is the way to worship in the Spirit and in truth? For the verse does not say worship the Spirit and truth; and please don't dismiss this by thinking it is the same thing.
 

The wind

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John 4:23-24. "But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24.God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

This is not a test. I am seriously asking you how do you worship in the Spirit and in truth?


God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in the spirit of Jesus in heaven. Those who have the Spirit of Christ are with him in glory by that Spirit. The spirit of truth, is the spirit of God: which is the spirit of Jesus.
 
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Mike Waters

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I appreciate your responses, they get me to search the truth. In doing so, things are getting clearer.

Since our innermost being is already at rest with the Truth, why then this need to perform these tasks. It sounds the opposite of the very nature of our innermost being (spirit of God within us).

There is a verse about being "heard" by God.
John 9:31 Now we know that God hears not sinners: but if any man be a worshiper of God, and does his will, him he hears.

Thanks for John 9:31
I needed the reminder and it helped me.
 

Episkopos

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Since our innermost being is already at rest with the Truth, why then this need to perform these tasks. It sounds the opposite of the very nature of our innermost being (spirit of God within us).

We as humans...especially men...tend to put things in boxes. We don't really do this consciously....but it's how we get by in the world. All the things we have to deal with necessitate that we need to put things away for their proper time. We are known for what is always loose from the boxes....the things that are free to interact with all the boxes within us. The will of man is to be loose...but the carnal nature is meant to be in a box....and this doesn't happen very much at all. Most people don't understand themselves let alone the will of God.

So with carnal man the major thing that is on the loose is the ego. No matter what box we are dealing with...our jobs, our attractions etc....all is dealt with by what is free within us...the ego. The "I". So as long as the ego is free within us....God is in the box....at least to some extent. (Sometimes SOME of God and His ways are free to roam within us...but again this is not a conscious thing.)

In order for the love of God (which is shed abroad in our hearts and therefore free to roam within us) to be free and dominant within us...the ego needs to be put into a box....or...crucified. And we bury that box in deep storage because as long as Christ is our life...we don't need the ego. We store it in a box that we don't ever open, at least we should never desire to open it. It's akin to eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Tozer said..in each one of us is a cross and a throne...either we are on the cross and Christ is on the throne or else Christ is on the cross and we are on the throne. That is where the "no longer I" comes in.

I would say that Tozer is right....and I additionally put that as....either the ego is free and loose in us and God is in a box...or else we lose the ego into a box and Christ is loose and free within us.
 
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Episkopos

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So, this is the way to worship in the Spirit and in truth? For the verse does not say worship the Spirit and truth; and please don't dismiss this by thinking it is the same thing.

Of ourselves we can't worship in Spirit and truth. We need to go through (overcome) the pull of the world and our carnal natures to have that kind of freedom and grace.


We are slaves to sin and the law of sin and death until a greater law causes us to overcome that law. It's like the law of flight that overcomes the law of gravity. That is what grace does.
 

marks

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John 4:23-24. "But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24.God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

This is not a test. I am seriously asking you how do you worship in the Spirit and in truth?

Hi Invisibilis,

I'm seeing that this passages reads a little differently than you have here, that the time is coming and now is, that the true worshipers shall worship the Father . . . "in spirit and in truth", rather than "in the spirit".

Worshiping in spirit would be as opposed to worshiping in flesh. We don't do outward acts of worship that require a bronze altar, and temple.

This was what the woman was asking about, where are we to worship? Jesus answers her, you are to worship God in spirit, an entirely different kind of worship.

Those who worship God worship in spirit and in truth.

Before regeneration, all men had was flesh, and worshiped God in their flesh. But then Jesus brought rebirth, and a new spirit life, and that is now how God is worshiped.

We have a new spirit which gives God worship, and does so in truth.

Not like the pharisee who thanked God he wasn't like the others . . . That's not worship.

Jesus' answer to her was to direct her to an entirely different way.

In spirit is to say, it's inside us, it's about who we are, and who God is, in reality, in our lives. No pretense. No show. Only truth. Are you truly His? Are you a new creation? These are God's worshipers. Not simply whomever gathers at the temple.

Much love!
 
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marks

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My first choice (in the words of the Hymn) would be to "Find a place of quiet rest, near to the heart of God";
Hi Mike, And welcome!

Yes! And not only because you've quoted one of my very favorites.

I think that worshipping in spirit and in truth is to say that external worship is over, all the temple ceremony, and now, instead of being sinners hidden under the sacrifice, now we are made new, and we are reconciled, spiritually alive, and not by atonement, but by a new birth.

We are in truth His children, His worshipers.

Much love!