What's it all about, Alfie?

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Mike Waters

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Long before I began the downward slide into old aged oblivion I concluded that when one reached 'the end' one might just about have learned enough to make a new start.
Or maybe that's just the process of reaching, from successive mistakes, the point where one is ready to meet Christ face to face and finally, fully and truly, be able to say "Nothing in my hand I bring, simply and solely to thy cross I cling".
 

Berserk

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Consider this way of getting at the question, "What's it all about, Alfie?" Most Christians view this brief passing breeze called earth life as our spiritual career and treat the afterlife as in effect a static but glorious nursing home or Disney World in which we eternally rest and retire. If we ponder that unconscious model of Heaven, the fear that too much of an initially good thing might ultimately become tiresomely boring. But what if we reverse that unconscious model of Heaven and recognize the biblical teaching that this life is actually a spiritual school that prepares us for our true career in Heaven? In other words, we need to ask ourselves, "What is the purpose of Heaven?" I have my own thoughts on this, but first I'd like to hear your thoughts.
 
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Mike Waters

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what if we reverse that unconscious model of Heaven and recognize the biblical teaching that this life is actually a spiritual school that prepares us for our true career in Heaven? In other words, we need to ask ourselves, "What is the purpose of Heaven?" I have my own thoughts on this, but first I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Maybe another reversal would be in order.
A reversal whereby we take the emphasis away from ourselves and onto God himself.
As blessed as Heaven (The New Jerusalem) might be for the heirs, it is also the final glorious accomplishment and "satisfaction" of the work of God in Christ.
 
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Berserk

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Maybe another reversal would be in order.
A reversal whereby we take the emphasis away from ourselves and onto God himself.
As blessed as Heaven (The New Jerusalem) might be for the heirs, it is also the final glorious accomplishment and "satisfaction" of the work of God in Christ.

No, your proposed reversal is logically incoherent and therefore meaningless until you explain:
(1) In what sense is Heaven "the final glorious accomplishment" for God? What exactly does Heaven accomplish?
(2) God created us for a purpose. So how does Heaven enable God to fulfill His purpose for us?
 

Helen

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(1) In what sense is Heaven "the final glorious accomplishment" for God? What exactly does Heaven accomplish?
(2) God created us for a purpose. So how does Heaven enable God to fulfill His purpose for us?

This looks like the start of an interesting thread ...hope it stays that way!
( It will be a miracle if it does :) )

You said- "In what sense is Heaven "the final glorious accomplishment" for God?"
I'd say , heaven itself isn't the final accomplishment for God. I believe His Plan will be complete there, when 'all are gathered in'. Then , who knows what plans He has for each one of us He hasn't said.
Union with man is what He started in Eden...so that will be His final accomplishment = "Let Us make man in Our image and likeness". And He has been working on that ,and us...for all the thousands of years between.

I believe relationship has always been His purpose.
 

Mike Waters

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“Trust in God with all your heart and lean neither unto your own understanding, nor to that of any other man, for the race is not to the swift, the battle is not to the strong, knowledge is not to the wise, riches are not to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill, but everything is dependent on time and chance. Therefore do with all your might whatsoever it is that falls to your hand to be done, for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, once you are in your grave.”
 

amadeus

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“Trust in God with all your heart and lean neither unto your own understanding, nor to that of any other man, for the race is not to the swift, the battle is not to the strong, knowledge is not to the wise, riches are not to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill, but everything is dependent on time and chance. Therefore do with all your might whatsoever it is that falls to your hand to be done, for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, once you are in your grave.”
Mike do you realize that by combining different verses like this you have actually made a statement which is a mixed statement, a mixture of the ways of the flesh and the Way of God? This is what is often seen in what men call Christianity or Christendom.
 
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Mike Waters

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Mike do you realize that by combining different verses like this you have actually made a statement which is a mixed statement, a mixture of the ways of the flesh and the Way of God? This is what is often seen in what men call Christianity or Christendom.

All that I think, write, or speak, comes from a heart this is a mixture of good and bad.
I believe God to have given me a new heart, but that until I hopefully put on immortality in the resurrection, both the old and the new heart contend with one another, with supremacy being dependent on my developing degree of sanctification.
I incline to the view that the ‘Real Word of God’ is what God’s Holy Spirit plants within my new heart from the various man made sources with which I come into contact; be they Hymns, Scriptures, other spoken or written words, etc.
What you have read and commented upon was written accordingly with no conscious intent, on my part, as to its source.
On reflection I see a mixture of sources plagiarized by my convictive inclinations which will likely be a mixture of good and bad.
Out of this readers will rightly conclude (and doubtless castigate) that I believe the ‘Real Word of God’ to mainly be ‘personally relevant’, rather than ‘universally consistent.
It all depends on how much ‘freedom’ readers give to what I consider to be the allotted work of the Holy Spirit, which I believe to remain true to ‘Universally consistent’ truth, but otherwise uniquely relevant to each believer’s needs within his ‘walk of faith’.
Now there’s what will be seen as a ‘can of worms’.
 
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mjrhealth

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All that I think, write, or speak, comes from a heart this is a mixture of good and bad.
I believe God to have given me a new heart, but that until I hopefully put on immortality in the resurrection, both the old and the new heart contend with one another, with supremacy being dependent on my developing degree of sanctification.
I incline to the view that the ‘Real Word of God’ is what God’s Holy Spirit plants within my new heart from the various man made sources with which I come into contact; be they Hymns, Scriptures, other spoken or written words, etc.
What you have read and commented upon was written accordingly with no conscious intent, on my part, as to its source.
On reflection I see a mixture of sources plagiarized by my convictive inclinations which will likely be a mixture of good and bad.
Out of this readers will rightly conclude (and doubtless castigate) that I believe the ‘Real Word of God’ to mainly be ‘personally relevant’, rather than ‘universally consistent.
It all depends on how much ‘freedom’ readers give to what I consider to be the allotted work of the Holy Spirit, which I believe to remain true to ‘Universally consistent’ truth, but otherwise uniquely relevant to each believer’s needs within his ‘walk of faith’.
Now there’s what will be seen as a ‘can of worms’.
I have to keep topping mine up, trying different worms.
 
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mjrhealth

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Long before I began the downward slide into old aged oblivion I concluded that when one reached 'the end' one might just about have learned enough to make a new start.
Or maybe that's just the process of reaching, from successive mistakes, the point where one is ready to meet Christ face to face and finally, fully and truly, be able to say "Nothing in my hand I bring, simply and solely to thy cross I cling".
Something to do with ,as i have posted before, until a man comes to the realization that He himself with all his studying and learning, knows nothing than he is unteachable. Jesus loves an empty vessel, with an empty vessel He can prepare it for Holy things, fill it with water, and change it into wine, the best wine God saved till last, His Spirit in us the hope of Glory.
 

amadeus

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All that I think, write, or speak, comes from a heart this is a mixture of good and bad.

This is a very common thing, I believe, among men. The Bible itself, when we can understand it tells us about both the good and bad. One purpose of the Holy Spirit in us is to sort it all out separating the two so we know what to discard and what to follow. Even though you quoted it from the Bible [Ecc 9:11], in the end the dependence on time and chance is speaking about a person who walks only in the flesh. Time and chance do impact believers, but for them when they are surrendering to and following the lead of the Holy Spirit, the result is what God wants it to be, which is always a good thing, no matter how it appear to a carnal eye.

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Rom 8:28

I believe God to have given me a new heart, but that until I hopefully put on immortality in the resurrection, both the old and the new heart contend with one another, with supremacy being dependent on my developing degree of sanctification.
For me your wording complicates it. I agree that in a believer there is a new heart that the Holy Spirit is working to make exactly as God wants it to be filled with only goods things [things of God]. In each battle we fight, there is the old man [old heart] of us and the new man [new heart] of us, consider how uneven the battle is. Anything fighting against God will lose.

But... God gave to each of the ability to choose to surrender to the Holy Spirit or not [This is what men call "free will"]. If we do surrender, the Holy Spirit wins the battle and if we continue winning battles we eventually will win the war in ourselves. If we don't surrender to the Holy Spirit, we quench the Spirit [our choice, our decision] and we have already lost the battle... because alone we cannot win; alone we will submit to temptation and sin. Fortunately, unless it is the last battle it is not the war.
I incline to the view that the ‘Real Word of God’ is what God’s Holy Spirit plants within my new heart from the various man made sources with which I come into contact; be they Hymns, Scriptures, other spoken or written words, etc.
This speaks of what eat that is potentially good. In God's time the Holy Spirit brings it to Life in us [writes it on our heart]. Then it is the Word of God in us.

The problem is the other things that we eat: the conversations of our unbelieving acquaintances, co-workers, and so forth... as well as what we read or watch [TV, Internet, etc.] which is not good, but evil must also be dealt with...

Everything we eat that is evil must be sifted out by the Holy Spirit to make room for good things. People who eat more garbage than good food, are going to have some serious problems in how they serve God here, while still in this flesh. When a person too often is quenching the Holy Spirit in himself, the work of cleaning out the filth and bringing to the Life the potentially good is hindered. Some one who quenches the Holy Spirit most of the time likely will miss the Way along his way and then his time will run out...

What you have read and commented upon was written accordingly with no conscious intent, on my part, as to its source.

It that is really the case then you need to eat and drink more of the flesh and blood of Jesus [the potentially good things] and less of the bad things and stop quenching the Holy Spirit so the work that God wants to do in you will get done. You can always ask Him for additional help.
On reflection I see a mixture of sources plagiarized by my convictive inclinations which will likely be a mixture of good and bad.
Out of this readers will rightly conclude (and doubtless castigate) that I believe the ‘Real Word of God’ to mainly be ‘personally relevant’, rather than ‘universally consistent.
It all depends on how much ‘freedom’ readers give to what I consider to be the allotted work of the Holy Spirit, which I believe to remain true to ‘Universally consistent’ truth, but otherwise uniquely relevant to each believer’s needs within his ‘walk of faith’.
Now there’s what will be seen as a ‘can of worms’.
No can of worms for the Holy Ghost my friend is too complex or difficult be properly sorted, bringing to Life the good and casting out the evil.
 
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Helen

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@amadeus I LOVE combining verses John...and often do! :)


"Thou God seest me."

O Lord, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my down-sitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether ... Such knowledge is too wonderful for me: it is high, I cannot attain unto it.

The eyes of the Lord are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.
— The ways of man are before the eyes of the Lord, and he pondereth all his goings.
— God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
— The eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him.

Jesus ... knew all men, and needed not that any should testify of man; for he knew what was in man.
— Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee.
"

GEN. 16:13. Psa. 139:1-4,6. Prov. 15:3. ‑Prov. 5:21. ‑Luke 16:15. ‑II Chr. 16:9. John 2:24,25. John 21:17.

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