101G
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don't worry about what I might like, (smile) ... lol, you're ok, I copied your post, I want to go over it later when I have time to digest it. I love to hear other saints thoughts on the subject. be blessed.
PICJAG.
Revelation 11-the measure of the temple
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VictoryinJesus
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exactly. 1 Peter 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
Inherit the blessing...Romans 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
Davy
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That's not the falling away of 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 that Apostle Paul spoke of. The specific apostasy (Greek apostasia) in 2 Thess.2 is about falling to worship the Antichrist in place of Jesus Christ.
2 Thess 2:1-12
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Paul's subject he began was that of the time of Christ's 2nd coming and gathering of the Church. There were deceivers in the Church that were causing confusion about that specific timing (as they are still doing that in Christ's Church today).
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The subject there is about a false one coming to Jerusalem to exalt himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped. And it involves the "temple of God" in Jerusalem which is about a physical stone temple, not Paul's spiritual temple idea which Satan's servants try to push upon this. Per the Daniel 9:27 "one week" prophecy, and Daniel 11 abomination prophecy, another Jewish temple must be standing at the very end of this world to fulfill this prophecy about that false one coming to sit in a literal temple in Jerusalem playing God. Satan's servants pushing false ideas like this is about some pope in Rome, or in any other place besides Jerusalem is all for nought. This event will happen in Jerusalem at the end of this world just prior to Christ's return as written.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Paul had already revealed these events to them before they got confused by false ones preaching other things in the Church. Daniel 10 reveals it's the Archangel Michael that is withholding Satan. That is what Paul is talking about. Satan as that "man of sin" is coming, but not until the war in Heaven of Rev.12:7 forward happens, and then he and his angels will be cast out of Heaven down to this earth, in our... dimension. That is how this particular 'apostasy' event is about the coming of this pseudo-Christ to fool as many as will into thinking he is God, instead of waiting on The True Christ Jesus that comes later. If you are on the false pre-trib rapture wagon, then you are in terrible danger.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
This reveals that Christ's 2nd coming is after that pseudo-Christ's working on earth, and that Jesus' coming is what destroys that working. That "Wicked" is actually a point to the Wicked one, i.e., the devil himself.
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
KJV
Paul called this event a "strong delusion", put for probably the strongest event of deception ever to occur upon this earth to date. It will because Satan himself is coming to play that pseudo-Christ.
That coming event for the end cannot be compared to some brethren falling away from Christ because of lusts of the flesh or the things of the world. It will be because of Satan coming to play God and working great signs and wonders on earth to deceive the whole world, as written (Rev.13 about the "dragon" and "another beast").
Davy
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VictoryinJesus
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“And that Jesus’ coming destroys that working” ...of the man of sin. 1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Acts 18:5-6And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ. [6] And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.
2 Timothy 2:25-26 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; [26] And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
What is “strong delusion”?
1 John 3:10-15 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. [11] For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. [12] Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. [13] Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you. [14] We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. [15] Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Who is the man of sin revealed? . He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. [15] Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Even He goes further and said “Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.”
VictoryinJesus
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been thinking about this passage since yesterday. It is always the go-to whenever calling others all sorts of degrading names that has really nothing to do with scripture but the flesh. All we have to do is say our name calling is valid because correction was needed and supposedly that makes it justifiable. But does correction give us the right to call others nasty things? The list is building of things you’ve called me. Not that it matters because we don’t inherit the curses. You get that right? There is a passage where the word says even Micheal didn’t bring railing accusations against the devil but said “the Lord rebuke thee”. And The Lord already has “rebuked” him in the incorruptible does not inherit corruption. Making the curses void and unprofitable (without strength). What was said to you was thrown at you in the same spirit using the same passages of correction of your doctrinal position, therefore it is okay to call you whatever nasty comment fitting of your errors. Bull. Don’t you see. I want you, Davy, to wake up to the blessings. Don’t care if you believe I’m insane or emotional or a dope smoking new ager taking scripture way out of context. Only wanting you to rejoice. He said through blessing you will be blessed. “Blessed are the merciful for they will receive mercy.” That you may “inherit blessing” ...then I will rebuke the devourer and bring the fruits in to My storehouse and see if God does not pour out blessings so much there will not be enough room to contain it...then I go to prepare room because in My Fathers house are MANY rooms. “Inheritors of blessing” “store up treasure in Heaven” for others then 1 Peter 3:9-14 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. [10] For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: [11] Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. [12] For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. [13] And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? [14] But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye : and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
the blessing sown has profit. The curses sown has none. Empty. Why would we not urge each other toward inherit a blessing? sowing what is good and profitable? James 3:13-18 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. [14] But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. [15] This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. [16] For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. [17] But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. [18] And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
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That is a reference to the resurrection unto damnation which takes place after the 1000 years.
And [the dead] shall come forth [from their graves]; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:29)
Davy
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So... is that an attempt to limit our Lord Jesus' ability to destroy the devil and his works in His Own time? It's obvious that our Lord Jesus has a set time to destroy the devil and his works, and that time is not yet today. Or did you not notice that the devil is still active today per Apostle Peter, and roams about seeking whom he may devour? (1 Peter 5:8). Do the works of today's world show this too? Yes, obviously. So men's doctrines are one thing, but God's Truth in His Word is another. We know the devil and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish (Matthew 25:41). But the time for that event is not yet.
The 2 Thessalonians 2:4 event of that false one coming to play God was made very plain by Apostle Paul there. No amount of dilly-dallying with Scripture can change it; not even those who try to say that Paul meant by that "temple of God" the spiritual temple he taught of in Ephesians 2, which of course, it is not. It is about a stone temple in Jerusalem for the end, which like I referred to, is required. That because to fulfill the prophecies for the end in the Book of Daniel involving the Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15 "abomination of desolation" at the latter half of the final "one week" of Daniel 9:27. Jesus was giving His faithful the main signs of the end leading up to His return that the final generation will experience in that Matthew 24 chapter.
The "strong delusion" Apostle Paul was talking about in 2 Thessalonians 2:11 goes with the context of that same chapter. It is about the deception that coming Antichrist there will cause upon the whole world, deceiving the whole world, except Christ's faithful. Those who try to get away from that meaning Paul gave there are antichrists because they try to get Christian believers away from understanding that very deception of that singular Antichrist that is to come upon the whole world at the very end just prior to Christ's return.
101G
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thanks, I know this, but apparently some don't know it, this was why I made the statement to try and get their attention to it.
again, thanks.
PICJAG.
Davy
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Well, it's apparent that you do NOT LIKE being corrected when you stray in God's Word. Better to roll with it and learn from it instead of trying create consternation.
VictoryinJesus
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“It is about a stone temple in Jerusalem for the end”: 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
1 Peter 2:5-6 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. [6] Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
Ephesians 5:9-10 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth[10] Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Davy
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That's just a totally unrelated quoting of Bible Scripture that is out of the context of the 2 Thessalonians 2 Scripture about a false one coming in the last days to sit in a rebuilt stone temple in Jerusalem, and proclaim himself as God, and over all that is even called... God, or that is worshiped.
Let's see, just how much does that idea cover, with his being exalted over all that is even 'called' God, or that is worshiped, according to Apostle Paul?
Would that cover ALL known and even unknown religions of the world? Yes!
Would that cover any and all forms of belief in a god, or a God? Yes!
Thus the idea Paul gives about that coming false one is very clear. He will exalt himself as the ONLY one and true God. And his working of deception is to include "all power, and signs, and lying wonders".
Don't today's Churches realize this coming danger for the end of this world??!!@&~!^&!
Don't they realize this will mean a direct attack on Christianity also, that false one proclaiming to be The Christ?!??
What will your Church tell you who that coming false one to Jerusalem will be???
VictoryinJesus
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“It is about a stone temple in Jerusalem for the end, which like I referred to, is required.” ...”is required” so you keep saying, required of who...men? Acts 7:48-49
[48] Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, [49] Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
God asks “what house will ye build me?” ...OR “what is the place of my rest?” ...what is His place of rest? Is Christ not His place of rest...in “I go to prepare a place”? What is the House God builds? 1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
“living stones” ...not dead stones ...Alive. how did the stones become Alive? Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
“It is about a stone temple in Jerusalem for the end, which like I referred to, is required.” So yes, agree it is about a stone temple...a living Stone temple, built up of “living” stones. 1 Peter 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
Why would God “require” dead sacrifices in a stone temple made with hands in the end? Forgetting the end has come in: having passed from death unto Life, Behold all things are made New. Show in scripture where God says Living Stones built up a spiritual house, an Holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ...is not enough and “It is about a stone temple in Jerusalem for the end, which like I referred to, is required.” ..
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Davy
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I've referred to the Daniel Scripture regarding that requirement at least twice already. So don't try to act like you didn't see it.
The spiritual temple idea that Apostle Paul taught in Ephesians 2 has Lord Jesus Christ as its Cornerstone, and the prophets and Apostles as its foundation, and those in Christ are built upon that foundation. That temple CANNOT BE CORRUPTED, period!
Anyone saying the spiritual temple can be corrupted is either deceived or is a deceiver.
This is why Apostle Paul was not speaking of the spiritual temple idea in 2 Thessalonians 2:4. Paul was pointing to the idea of a traditional stone temple in Jerusalem. The Daniel 11:31 and Daniel 9:27 prophecy about the pseudo-Christ for the end requires it. And Jesus quoted about it from the Book of Daniel when giving one of the signs to occur at the very end of this world (Matthew 24 and Mark 13).
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VictoryinJesus
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1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1 Corinthians 3:9-13 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. [10] According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. [11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; [13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Hebrews 12:27-29 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. [28] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: [29] For our God is a consuming fire.
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VictoryinJesus
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going to sleep. Don’t know what else to say. I do appreciate your taking the time to respond and your effort on me. Honestly, I’m aware I’m not going to convince you of anything. We just disagree. I do hope good things and blessing for you and your family.
Some things are REQUIRED in order for prophecies to be fulfilled. That does not necessarily mean that God approves of them. Rather, since He knows the end from the beginning, He allows those things to come to pass.
1. There will be a real,literal, physical temple in Jerusalem before the coming of the Antichrist. Plans are already under way.
2. The Antichrist will allow sacrifices to be offered for 3 1/2 years within that temple. Then he will shut down everything.
3. The Antichrist will then set up the Abomination of Desolation (an amazing idol) within the temple, which will trigger all the desolations which will occur during the 7th seal judgments (the Great Tribulation).
4. The Antichrist will also set himself up as God within that temple.
5. It is called "the temple of God" since unbelieving Jews will regard it as the temple of God.
6. This has absolutely nothing to do with the Church, which is the metaphorical and spiritual temple of God (which will be in Heaven at that time).
VictoryinJesus
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Okay. Then maybe you are right and it has to go there before the end. But it is not the temple of God. It will be a temple...but not the One He has built through the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
John 14:5-7 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? [6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. [7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
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Davy
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Doesn't matter what 'you'... may want to call it. What matters is Paul was giving that 2 Thess.2:4 prophecy as a warning to the Church. The reason is because the orthodox unbelieving Jews still think they are under the old covenant, which to them requires a sanctuary and sacrifices. And they've been planning it ever since they've gotten re-established as a nation again in the middle east. Don't let the Israelis who act nonchalantly about rebuilding the temple fool you.
VictoryinJesus
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meaning the vail remains until it turns and the vail is taken (done) away with in Christ. Why follow the blind which to them requires a sanctuary and sacrifices? What sanctuary do they still not yet see as even before being told God does not dwell in temples made with hands?
if that is the reasoning behind it...your voicing it is their unbelieving and still under the old, which to them requires a sanctuary and sacrifices. Why are you and I in such disagreement then as to what is the true Temple of God... and not together that what they need is the vail removed which is done away with in Christ?
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