Why Doubt Osas?

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Copper25

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Ephesians 1:4) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Ephesians 1:5) Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his willGod has the ultimate foreknowledge. He knows what happens from the beginning to the end. Not only that, but it is of his will anything happens, because he allows it. He is sovereign over all time, all things. When He calls, elects, picks a person to do his working in, to circumcise their heart, (Colossians 2:11, Romans 3:30), to give them a new Spirit and a new heart (Jeremiah 32:39-40, Ezekiel 11:19)(Ezekiel 36:26), that births in that person a new mentality, one that loves and desires to walk in God's law, his precepts, his ways (Ezekiel 36:27)(Ezekiel 11:21), do you think that a person that is TRULY saved is going to slip into a life of perdition once he was been transformed by the Grace of God; or better yet after reading a verse like Jeremiah 32:41, keeping in mind that this is God speaking and saying this, "Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul.", that God will not do everything in is power (which is limitless) to correct his children, those that are really his?Hebrew 12:11 states "Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous"Those that claim God, but can act like the world, be in a continuous state of carnality and rebellion, yet call God their father; they lie and should be very afraid. Psalm 94:12 says "Blessed is the man whom thou chasenest". Why because those whom he chastens, he loves: tough love is a demonstration of the magnitude of love God has for us. We and those who are His true children, he will not let slip into perdition: Why, because (Psalm 23:4) "thy rod and thy staff they comfort me". If we get out of line, God will race to correct us and show us the error of our ways, we get convicted in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. But we do not stay of the narrow way! Those that fall away and never come back are not his children, but rather children of disobedience, children of satan. Why, because they never got corrected, convicted by God's Spirit, but rather just drifted away into perdition. These I speak of, who do not come back, were not really even Christian from the beginningMatthew 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.We got millions upon millions confessing Christian, but who when you look at their life, the totality of their life and the way they live, the habits they have, the lack of true reverence toward God, their love for the world, they are not Christian. They say God with their lips, but say that God doesn't exist with their life and the way they choose to live. We got millions upon millions confessing Christian, but don't even want to seek God, nor get to know his word. Romans 3:11) "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." The natural (or unconverted man) is not in love with God, doesn't want to seek his truth, thus (Romans 3:17) "the way of peace have they not known" and (Romans 3:18) "There is no fear of God before their eyes."We got millions upon millions confessing Christian living like there is no, absolutely no law to obey given and that proceeded out of the mouth of God. In the New King James version, Matthew 7:23 states "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" Thus this is concluded, those that practice lawlessness shall perish at the hand of Almighty God. They will be ruined eternally, many of whom confessed Christian, but did not know, or better yet, they did not follow the narrow way. Why, because they were never were really converted, they never received from God that new heart, that new spirit, that would make them love and follow after the narrow way, so they live abroad; thinking ALL THEIR LIFE, confessing "LORD, LORD", that even though their life showed no change, not a hint of conversion (because they never familiarized themselves with the doctrine, the truth of regeneration), that they are going to heaven. (John 3:20) "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light". Many dwell in darkness yet acknowledge that Christ is the way, but never come to him, nor abide in Him, and for that matter were not his, nor a child of God!Romans 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.Isn't it interesting, according to the text, the word of God, there is "now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus", Thus concluding that ALL who are in the path of destruction, on the road to hell and damnation, are not his. Can a person be a child of God and yet still go hell when the scripture contradicts it. No, simply no.People love the first part of this verse and yet cut the last part in analyzing, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." These are they who HAVE BEEN converted, who HAVE BEEN given a new heart of flesh, who HAVE BEEN given a new spirit. The flesh cannot walk in the Spirit, meaning that the unconverted CANNOT walk in the ways of the Spirit. ONLY the children of God, those that are converted, and changed, and transformed into a new creature can successful walk in the Spiritual way and all others WILL fail! Thus concluding that a CHILD OF GOD IS one who was transformed, IS one that is corrected by and by all means (Jeremiah 32:41) is kept on the narrow path and IS one that does not dwell on the broad path.We have millions upon millions confessing Christian, claiming to be a child of God, but ARE NOT BECAUSE THEY WHERE NEVER EVER BEFORE IN THEIR LIVES WERE CONVERTED AND TRANSFORMED BY THE POWER OF GOD.2 Peter 1:10) Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:This is a statement that MANY fail to heed, we only got one life, one chance because Christ died once, and for all.Brethren, this is the time, let us examine ourselves further and make our calling sure. Millions upon millions are claiming Christ but are dead to him, not alive in Him. "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation"?Hebrews 4:16) Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.Heed the counsel of the Lord
 

Vickie

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QUOTE (Copper25 @ Mar 20 2009, 01:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71106
Ephesians 1:4) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Hebrew 12:11 states "Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous"Those that claim God, but can act like the world, be in a continuous state of carnality and rebellion, yet call God their father; they lie and should be very afraid. Psalm 94:12 says "Blessed is the man whom thou chasenest". Why because those whom he chastens, he loves: tough love is a demonstration of the magnitude of love God has for us. We and those who are His true children, he will not let slip into perdition: Why, because (Psalm 23:4) "thy rod and thy staff they comfort me". If we get out of line, God will race to correct us and show us the error of our ways, we get convicted in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. But we do not stay of the narrow way! Those that fall away and never come back are not his children, but rather children of disobedience, children of satan. Why, because they never got corrected, convicted by God's Spirit, but rather just drifted away into perdition. These I speak of, who do not come back, were not really even Christian from the beginningMatthew 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Heed the counsel of the Lord
Hello Copper25! We older Christians some times get snug in our Christian suits we wear. Probably younger ones too. I find sin in myself daily. It makes me ill. I so want to be perfect before our Lord. We would like to think we know who is going to be qualified for Heaven and who is not by their actions we witness. We see them in all kinds of sins. Our eyes are quick to assess them Then one day for me, the beam in my own eye became rather large. And I realized, who am I to say these Christians who lie, cheat and steal, and divorce and commit fornication and perhaps adultery like KING DAVID, who went to far to place a man of GOD, who name was URIAH on the front lines to make sure he would be killed, yep, King David a man after God's own heart committed murder. The example King David set was so terrible for God, many of God's people complained about it. After all he was a king over the people and what example did he give? One that God is gonna throw him in HELL FIRE for he committed adultery and murder. Don't you think they though just like you do and I have in the past? That these professing Christians in their ways are anything but Godly? I tell you what God showed me and I am really working hard on it. How I treat the people of the earth, evil doers, sinful, weak in Christ and all people dressed in filthy rags, MY ACTIONS can turn them further away from God. I will not be gathering for Christ , but rather scattering. And this is against the Laws of Christ. In no way are any of us Christians to be doing this. Matt. 13:33 The Kingdom of heaven is like YEAST that a woman (the body of believers) took and mixed into a large amount of flour (the earth's people) until it worked all through the dough. (until God's word is complete)After all we are representatives for Christ, He dwells in us. How did Jesus treat all these people of the earth dressed in filthy rags ?God will bring down Hell Fire on us, if we destroy the filthy rags HE is gathering, we don't know what stage of being called they are in or just what our Lord who owns all of the earth and its people, is doing with each person on this earth. We need to be very cautious. In Christ's precious words of lifeVickieYou may be a new person in Christ and me too, but God has brought us where we are and we are to extend love greater on our end because we are called mature Christians. Hebrews 6:1-3.
 

Jordan

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Remember they are many kinds of love that Christ gave to this world according to how He see fit in each situation. And as of now, we are saved by grace, and not according to the Law. But likewise today's people take saved by grace as in means "We can do whatever we want" God forbid. We have Christ and we can repent and ask forgiveness in the name of Jesus.
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As of the title thing says. OSAS is a false doctrine. It is a doctrine of men.
 

Copper25

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As for OSAS, that phrase is not found in the bible but in John 6 and 10, the principle is expressed repeatedly John 1027) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.John 637) All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.39)And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.44) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Bt this I say, in no way are we to be neglect of God's word, thinking that we are exalted above it! It is meant to be heeded by all.The question is, who is TRULY HIS and is OWNED by Him?
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (Copper25 @ Mar 21 2009, 11:31 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71165
As for OSAS, that phrase is not found in the bible but in John 6 and 10, the principle is expressed repeatedly John 1027) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.John 637) All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.39)And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.44) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Bt this I say, in no way are we to be neglect of God's word, thinking that we are exalted above it! It is meant to be heeded by all.The question is, who is TRULY HIS and is OWNED by Him?
No, no, and no, so many scriptures says otherwise... too many scriptures to prove this false doctrine.
 

Copper25

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QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 22 2009, 12:53 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71166
No, no, and no, so many scriptures says otherwise... too many scriptures to prove this false doctrine.
Uh, Jorden, first off the scripture never contradicts itself. One must divide the word properly. These verses that I pointed out are not false doctrine, but scripture itself!
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (Copper25 @ Mar 22 2009, 12:19 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71167
QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 21 2009, 11:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71166
No, no, and no, so many scriptures says otherwise... too many scriptures to prove this false doctrine.
Uh, Jorden, first off the scripture never contradicts itself. One must divide the word properly. These verses that I pointed out are not false doctrine, but scripture itself!Of course God's Words never contradict themselves, and I will never say it does... You aren't understanding what I'm trying to say. Maybe an old post on what I'm trying to say might help and this is what I mean of OSAS a false doctrine...QUOTE (thesuperjag @ May 3 2007, 04:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=10034
...the OSAS doctrine is so deceiving and it is made by man. And I don't need a scripture to support this common sense. For ensample, When I accepted Jesus into my heart, I became saved... Now if I turn my back on my Saviour and I became a wiccan (an example) and never want Him again...then I am going to say that I was never truly saved at all...therefore the OSAS doctrine needs to be discarded. ...
 

Copper25

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Jordan said "the OSAS doctrine is so deceiving and it is made by man. And I don't need a scripture to support this common sense. For ensample, When I accepted Jesus into my heart, I became saved... Now if I turn my back on my Saviour and I became a wiccan (an example) and never want Him again...then I am going to say that I was never truly saved at all...therefore the OSAS doctrine needs to be discarded. ...Uh, Jorden, first off the scripture never contradicts itself. One must divide the word properly. These verses that I pointed out are not false doctrine, but scripture itself!"Of course God's Words never contradict themselves, and I will never say it does... You aren't understanding what I'm trying to say. Maybe an old post on what I'm trying to say might help and this is what I mean of OSAS a false doctrine...[/quote]Uh Jordan, you know that everyone can confess the name of the Lord and that will ultimately mean virtually nothing. Why, James 2:19 states "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." I can confess Christ all I want, and yet if I were commting adultry, fornication, and having a rebellious lifestlye, I clearly am not His. You see?Matthew 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.I preach not faith by works, but rather changes, the fruitness in someones life as a result of converstion. If someone can look at their life before their claimed converstion and it is the exact same now as then, they have something to fear because odd are they are certainly not his! Ezekiel 36:26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.Do you Jordan really think that this marvelous transformation can happen, yet one can stay the same, being in and remaining in a God hating nature of the unconverted man? Do you think that a man could undo that which God does and he creates and works? Do you think that God unlike man (man being evil) would not correct his children, that an evil man would be more loving than He?
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (Copper25 @ Mar 22 2009, 02:23 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71182
Jordan said QUOTE (thesuperjag @ May 3 2007, 04:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=10034
...the OSAS doctrine is so deceiving and it is made by man. And I don't need a scripture to support this common sense. For ensample, When I accepted Jesus into my heart, I became saved... Now if I turn my back on my Saviour and I became a wiccan (an example) and never want Him again...then I am going to say that I was never truly saved at all...therefore the OSAS doctrine needs to be discarded. ...
Uh, Jorden, first off the scripture never contradicts itself. One must divide the word properly. These verses that I pointed out are not false doctrine, but scripture itself!"QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 22 2009, 11:07 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71171
Of course God's Words never contradict themselves, and I will never say it does... You aren't understanding what I'm trying to say. Maybe an old post on what I'm trying to say might help and this is what I mean of OSAS a false doctrine...
Uh Jordan, you know that everyone can confess the name of the Lord and that will ultimately mean virtually nothing. Why, James 2:19 states "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." I can confess Christ all I want, and yet if I were commting adultry, fornication, and having a rebellious lifestlye, I clearly am not His. You see?Matthew 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.I preach not faith by works, but rather changes, the fruitness in someones life as a result of converstion. If someone can look at their life before their claimed converstion and it is the exact same now as then, they have something to fear because odd are they are certainly not his! Ezekiel 36:26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.Do you Jordan really think that this marvelous transformation can happen, yet one can stay the same, being in and remaining in a God hating nature of the unconverted man? Do you think that a man could undo that which God does and he creates and works? Do you think that God unlike man (man being evil) would not correct his children, that an evil man would be more loving than He?I understand your post clearly, but the thing is, you aren't understanding one iota of my posts. So I'll just leave it to that.John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.
 

Copper25

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QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 21 2009, 12:43 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71123
Remember they are many kinds of love that Christ gave to this world according to how He see fit in each situation. And as of now, we are saved by grace, and not according to the Law. But likewise today's people take saved by grace as in means "We can do whatever we want" God forbid. We have Christ and we can repent and ask forgiveness in the name of Jesus.
smile.gif

1 Corinthians 10:23) All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.Just because we are under grace does not mean we should run around sinningAnd of course works do not save us, but by GraceEphesians 2:8-9) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.And of course apart from Christ were would we be?Did I miss something Jordan?
 

TallMan

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Rom. 11:22: Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
 

Dunamite

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Losing one's salvation means that God makes mistakes which is impossible and that we are saved by our own efforts and not grace. I can't agree with either of those two things so I believe in OSAS until I see evidence to the contrary.In the end it does not matter because it is all in God's hands. He knows and that is what counts and there is no test to get into Heaven.
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (Dunamite @ Mar 25 2009, 04:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71267
Losing one's salvation means that God makes mistakes which is impossible and that we are saved by our own efforts and not grace. I can't agree with either of those two things so I believe in OSAS until I see evidence to the contrary.In the end it does not matter because it is all in God's hands. He knows and that is what counts and there is no test to get into Heaven.
True that God can't make mistakes...but you are wrong on this. It is the fact that we humans can break our half of the promise... to make the save goes void. God can't break His promises, but we can break our promise, hence the reason we have free will.Soul DestructionEzekiel 18:1 - The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die.The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.Luke 13:3 - I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.Luke 13:5 - I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.James 2:20 - But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? (Also James 2:14, 17, 24, 26).................And Dunamite... yes there is a test to get into Heaven... What do you think we are here for? To party at a local pub? And there is a test for those not of the first resurrection at the Millennium Reign.
 

Rank Stranger

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Once Saved, Always Saved is not a "doctrine" of men. It is a promise from God. Just think about the physical attributes of being born again in the Spirit. Exactly what happens in that process? We as Christians believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God with a degree of belief that is sufficient to satisfy God's minimum requirements for dispensing His grace. Nobody but God knows what that level of belief is, but He knows and He never makes a mistake.So the believer qualifies under God's rules, and grace is freely given. It comes in the form of the Holy Spirit entering into our bodies and residing there. The question being addressed here is whether or nore He will reside there for the rest of our lives, or if He will become offended and leave. But in that regard, we humans always seem to underestimate God. We sell Him short by even considering that He could make such a mistake in the first place.You see, for God to leave the body of anyone He entered into, that would mean He made a mistake in the first place. But He is incapable of making any mistakes because of His perfect nature. Therefore, once we are saved by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, our salvation will never, ever be taken away.Oh, what if the "saved" person turns into a gross and persistent sinner? That cannot happen simply because of God's omniscience. He already knows our futures, and He would never enter into anyone whom He already knows will turn against His will later in life.That means that anyone who says he is saved but sins regularly was not really saved in the first place.Not to worry. god always knows His own.Rank Stranger
 

Copper25

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Frankly, those that have TRULY repented, are part of Christ' fold and Christ has already stated in john 10:27-2827) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.To say that a TRUE sheep of Christ can be plucked from is hand is errouneous and one would be calling Christ a liar because of what He stated in John 10:27 and 28The biggest altimatumMatthew 12:30) He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.Etheir you are with Christ or against him, and those that are TRUlY with Him are there to stay. As for the phonies, calling themselves Christians, when they are really not...Matthew 7:23) ... I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 

tomwebster

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QUOTE (Rank Stranger @ Mar 26 2009, 08:41 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71287
Once Saved, Always Saved is not a "doctrine" of men. It is a promise from God. Just think about the physical attributes of being born again in the Spirit. Exactly what happens in that process? We as Christians believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God with a degree of belief that is sufficient to satisfy God's minimum requirements for dispensing His grace. Nobody but God knows what that level of belief is, but He knows and He never makes a mistake.So the believer qualifies under God's rules, and grace is freely given. It comes in the form of the Holy Spirit entering into our bodies and residing there. The question being addressed here is whether or nore He will reside there for the rest of our lives, or if He will become offended and leave. But in that regard, we humans always seem to underestimate God. We sell Him short by even considering that He could make such a mistake in the first place.You see, for God to leave the body of anyone He entered into, that would mean He made a mistake in the first place. But He is incapable of making any mistakes because of His perfect nature. Therefore, once we are saved by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, our salvation will never, ever be taken away.Oh, what if the "saved" person turns into a gross and persistent sinner? That cannot happen simply because of God's omniscience. He already knows our futures, and He would never enter into anyone whom He already knows will turn against His will later in life.That means that anyone who says he is saved but sins regularly was not really saved in the first place.Not to worry. god always knows His own.Rank Stranger
Your post is not taking in to account "free-will." It is true that no one can take away your/my salvation, but it is possible for you or me to give up our salvation, renouncing it, that is what "apostasy" is, "the great "falling away," mentioned in Scripture. Now some will tell you that if you give up your salvation you were not saved in the first place. But the meaning of the word "apostasy" does not permit that. You cannot "fall-away" if you have nothing to fall away from. Apostasy also has nothing to do with "persistent sin." It has to do with "free-will," and salvation does not mean someone gives up free-will.
 

Rank Stranger

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You stated, "Your post is not taking in to account "free-will." It is true that no one can take away your/my salvation, but it is possible for you or me to give up our salvation, renouncing it, that is what "apostasy" is, "the great "falling away," mentioned in Scripture. Now some will tell you that if you give up your salvation you were not saved in the first place. But the meaning of the word "apostasy" does not permit that. You cannot "fall-away" if you have nothing to fall away from. Apostasy also has nothing to do with "persistent sin." It has to do with "free-will," and salvation does not mean someone gives up free-will."By this statement you are proclaiming that God is not omniscient, right? You are saying that He does not know that any particular person will utilize free will to sin mightily and "give up" their own salvation? WRONG! God does know all that. More importantly, the Holy Spirit within us serves as a guide. Once we are saved eternally we want to serve Jesus and we try not to sin -- that is the application of our free will as born again Christians. Desire not to sin coupled with desire to serve God.God is no "Indian Giver". He does not give someone the Holy Spirit, only to take it away from that person at some point in the future after a sufficient quantity of sin has been accrued. He already knows if that future sin will occur, and He will not give the free gift of His grace to anyone that He already knows will fall into apostacy or a sinful lifestyle.There is also reason to believe that God will "kill" an individual believer to prevent him from sinning griviously. I need to do some more research on that one, but it is contained somewhere in Paul's writings.Rank Stranger
 

Christina

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QUOTE (Rank Stranger @ Mar 26 2009, 10:26 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71295
You stated, "Your post is not taking in to account "free-will." It is true that no one can take away your/my salvation, but it is possible for you or me to give up our salvation, renouncing it, that is what "apostasy" is, "the great "falling away," mentioned in Scripture. Now some will tell you that if you give up your salvation you were not saved in the first place. But the meaning of the word "apostasy" does not permit that. You cannot "fall-away" if you have nothing to fall away from. Apostasy also has nothing to do with "persistent sin." It has to do with "free-will," and salvation does not mean someone gives up free-will."By this statement you are proclaiming that God is not omniscient, right? You are saying that He does not know that any particular person will utilize free will to sin mightily and "give up" their own salvation? WRONG! God does know all that. More importantly, the Holy Spirit within us serves as a guide. Once we are saved eternally we want to serve Jesus and we try not to sin -- that is the application of our free will as born again Christians. Desire not to sin coupled with desire to serve God.God is no "Indian Giver". He does not give someone the Holy Spirit, only to take it away from that person at some point in the future after a sufficient quantity of sin has been accrued. He already knows if that future sin will occur, and He will not give the free gift of His grace to anyone that He already knows will fall into apostacy or a sinful lifestyle.There is also reason to believe that God will "kill" an individual believer to prevent him from sinning griviously. I need to do some more research on that one, but it is contained somewhere in Paul's writings.Rank Stranger
What part of You can break a promise do you not get?? God made Israel his people and they followed false gods and he divorced them. Are you so arrogant you dont think he will do the same to you or any one of us IF IF IF we do not do our part and stay in his word and stay faithful all you have is a promise IF IF IF you keep the faith, you will be saved ... IF you do not keep the faith you have broken the promise NOT GOD YOU And dont give me this then they were not saved garbage .... Its the typical cop out for you OSAS believers If one confess and accepts Christ as savior in their heart at that moment they are saved ... there is no other rule or certain lengh of time one has to believe ... at that moment they are saved period .... And how dare you say they were not because it doesnt fit your men's doctrine .... You can not read their heart ... But nothing keeps them from falling away but their own choices and free will .... They have left their Father... not the other way around ....The bible is full of this occurring What you think Judas became a apostle with out really having faith/being saved believing ...OSAS is not a doctrine of God ...unless we fulfil our part of the promiseTom gave an excellent explanation of this if apostasy were not possible we wouldn't be warned about it. and unsaved person can not fall away from what he never had ....
 

Rank Stranger

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Jun 1, 2008
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You stated, "What part of You can break a promise do you not get?? God made Israel his people and they followed false gods and he divorced them. Are you so arrogant you dont think he will do the same to you or any one of us IF IF IF we do not do our part and stay in his word and stay faithful all you have is a promise IF IF IF you keep the faith, you will be saved ... IF you do not keep the faith you have broken the promise NOT GOD YOU And dont give me this then they were not saved garbage .... Its the typical cop out for you OSAS believers If one confess and accepts Christ as savior in their heart at that moment they are saved ... there is no other rule or certain lengh of time one has to believe ... at that moment they are saved period .... And how dare you say they were not because it doesnt fit your men's doctrine .... You can not read their heart ... But nothing keeps them from falling away but their own choices and free will .... They have left their Father... not the other way around ....The bible is full of this occurring What you think Judas became a apostle with out really being saved ...OSAS is not a doctrine of God ...unless we fulfil our part of the promiseTom gave an excellent explanation of this if apostasy were not possible we wouldn't be warned about it. and unsaved person can not fall away from what he never had .... "Why do you deny God's omniscience? That is precisely what you are doing. Of course we can turn away from God by the exercise of our onw free will. BUT HE WOULD ALREADY KNOW THAT WE WILL TURN AWAY FROM HIM, SO HE WILL NOT GIVE THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHOM HE ALREADY KNOWS WILL TURN AWAY FROM HIM THE FREE GIFT OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT IN THE FIRST PLACE. HE WILL NOT GIVE IT WHILE KNOWING HE WILL ONE DAY TAKE IT AWAY AGAIN. HE IS PERFECT, AND HE NEVER BREAKS ONE OF HIS PROMISES OR MAKES ANY MISTAKES.Have you ever heard of the Book Of Life Of The Lamb? It is already written, and it is waiting in Heaven under a seal that no man can open. Oh, and it was written long before creation was begun. It contains the names of every person who is a true Christian.And if you key on the verse where Jesus threatens to remove the names of certain people out of that book, just remember that His threat was just that, and there is no indication anywhere in Scripture that He has removed any name out of that book. Why is that? Because God is perfect, never makes mistakes, and already knows who will come to Him as His sheep and who will reject Him and be goats, that's why.Rank Stranger
 
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