HEBREWS 8 THE NEW COVENANT IS NOT FOR THE CHURCH

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Doug

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Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The writer of Hebrews was writing to believing Jews in Christ, who believed the gospel of the kingdom, and were awaiting the coming of Christ to establish their Davidic kingdom on earth (Matthew 4:23 Jeremiah 23:5).

Christ was their High Priest and mediator of a better covenant.

Nowhere does Paul say that the church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation, is under covenant.

8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

The first covenant was not faulty, the fault lied with Israel who failed to keep it.

The writer of Hebrews is referencing Jeremiah 31:31-34 in which the Lord will make an everlasting covenant with Israel (Ezekiel 37:26).

8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Israel failed to keep the covenant made when God took them out of Egypt (Exodus 19:1-6 Deuteronomy 29:25).

8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The fulfillment of the new covenant is future. It will be realized after "those days". "Those days" are described in Jeremiah 30:3 when Israel will possess all the promised land; "those days" refer to the time of Jacob's trouble, the great tribulation to come upon Israel, in Jeremiah 30:7.

Israel will be enabled by the spirit of God to keep the new covenant. The spirit in them, will cause them to keep his law (Ezekiel 36:27).

The new covenant is made only with the house of Israel, not the church, the body of Christ.

8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

It is only at the coming of Christ, and the establishment of his kingdom on earth, that Israel will receive pardon for their iniquities (Acts 3:19 Jeremiah 33:8).

The church, the body of Christ, has forgiveness of all sin now (Ephesians 1:7 Colossians 1:14).
 

Stumpmaster

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Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The writer of Hebrews was writing to believing Jews in Christ, who believed the gospel of the kingdom, and were awaiting the coming of Christ to establish their Davidic kingdom on earth (Matthew 4:23 Jeremiah 23:5).

Christ was their High Priest and mediator of a better covenant.

Nowhere does Paul say that the church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation, is under covenant.

8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

The first covenant was not faulty, the fault lied with Israel who failed to keep it.

The writer of Hebrews is referencing Jeremiah 31:31-34 in which the Lord will make an everlasting covenant with Israel (Ezekiel 37:26).

8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Israel failed to keep the covenant made when God took them out of Egypt (Exodus 19:1-6 Deuteronomy 29:25).

8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The fulfillment of the new covenant is future. It will be realized after "those days". "Those days" are described in Jeremiah 30:3 when Israel will possess all the promised land; "those days" refer to the time of Jacob's trouble, the great tribulation to come upon Israel, in Jeremiah 30:7.

Israel will be enabled by the spirit of God to keep the new covenant. The spirit in them, will cause them to keep his law (Ezekiel 36:27).

The new covenant is made only with the house of Israel, not the church, the body of Christ.

8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

It is only at the coming of Christ, and the establishment of his kingdom on earth, that Israel will receive pardon for their iniquities (Acts 3:19 Jeremiah 33:8).

The church, the body of Christ, has forgiveness of all sin now (Ephesians 1:7 Colossians 1:14).
Hi Doug, You raise this matter which was a recent thread but can you please clarify three things:
  1. Are you saying that the Hebrews to whom the Book of Hebrews was addressed where NOT in the Body of Christ along with the Gentiles because they were Jews with a deal designed to keep them separate from the Gentiles?
  2. What was Paul on about in 1 Corinthians 11 when he addresses the congregation of both Jews and Gentiles regarding their responsibilities to observe the Lord's Supper worthily?
    1Co 11:23-29
    (23) For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
    (24) And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
    (25) After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do you, as oft as you drink it, in remembrance of me.
    (26) For as often as you eat this bread, and drink this cup, you do show the Lord's death till he come.
    (27) Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
    (28) But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
    (29) For he that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

  3. Who do you think 2Co 3:6 is addressed to?
    (6) Who also has made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.
 
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Helen

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The first covenant was not faulty, the fault lied with Israel who failed to keep it.

So...in saying that...it sounds like you believe that any others , not of Israel, could maybe have kept it??

I believe that God sent Jesus because no man could ever keep it.
 

Enoch111

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HEBREWS 8 THE NEW COVENANT IS NOT FOR THE CHURCH
Doug, why don't you quit while you're ahead? All your posts are designed to confuse, mislead, and promote false doctrine.

So my response to this OP is: BALONEY.
 
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ScottA

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Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The writer of Hebrews was writing to believing Jews in Christ, who believed the gospel of the kingdom, and were awaiting the coming of Christ to establish their Davidic kingdom on earth (Matthew 4:23 Jeremiah 23:5).

Christ was their High Priest and mediator of a better covenant.

Nowhere does Paul say that the church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation, is under covenant.

8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

The first covenant was not faulty, the fault lied with Israel who failed to keep it.

The writer of Hebrews is referencing Jeremiah 31:31-34 in which the Lord will make an everlasting covenant with Israel (Ezekiel 37:26).

8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Israel failed to keep the covenant made when God took them out of Egypt (Exodus 19:1-6 Deuteronomy 29:25).

8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The fulfillment of the new covenant is future. It will be realized after "those days". "Those days" are described in Jeremiah 30:3 when Israel will possess all the promised land; "those days" refer to the time of Jacob's trouble, the great tribulation to come upon Israel, in Jeremiah 30:7.

Israel will be enabled by the spirit of God to keep the new covenant. The spirit in them, will cause them to keep his law (Ezekiel 36:27).

The new covenant is made only with the house of Israel, not the church, the body of Christ.

8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

It is only at the coming of Christ, and the establishment of his kingdom on earth, that Israel will receive pardon for their iniquities (Acts 3:19 Jeremiah 33:8).

The church, the body of Christ, has forgiveness of all sin now (Ephesians 1:7 Colossians 1:14).
Why even bring Hebrews into it?

Jesus, told the apostles (Israel/Jews), "Take, eat, this is my body", sending them out to "all nations." And this He did after starting His church with Peter (Israel/Jew) who received the knowledge of who Jesus was, not from flesh and blood, but from the Father in spirit.

It is by those qualifications that there is neither Jew or gentile, etc. that make up Christ's body and church, but by the spirit of God made available to all through Christ.
 
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Waiting on him

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Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The writer of Hebrews was writing to believing Jews in Christ, who believed the gospel of the kingdom, and were awaiting the coming of Christ to establish their Davidic kingdom on earth (Matthew 4:23 Jeremiah 23:5).

Christ was their High Priest and mediator of a better covenant.

Nowhere does Paul say that the church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation, is under covenant.

8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

The first covenant was not faulty, the fault lied with Israel who failed to keep it.

The writer of Hebrews is referencing Jeremiah 31:31-34 in which the Lord will make an everlasting covenant with Israel (Ezekiel 37:26).

8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Israel failed to keep the covenant made when God took them out of Egypt (Exodus 19:1-6 Deuteronomy 29:25).

8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The fulfillment of the new covenant is future. It will be realized after "those days". "Those days" are described in Jeremiah 30:3 when Israel will possess all the promised land; "those days" refer to the time of Jacob's trouble, the great tribulation to come upon Israel, in Jeremiah 30:7.

Israel will be enabled by the spirit of God to keep the new covenant. The spirit in them, will cause them to keep his law (Ezekiel 36:27).

The new covenant is made only with the house of Israel, not the church, the body of Christ.

8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

It is only at the coming of Christ, and the establishment of his kingdom on earth, that Israel will receive pardon for their iniquities (Acts 3:19 Jeremiah 33:8).

The church, the body of Christ, has forgiveness of all sin now (Ephesians 1:7 Colossians 1:14).
Scripture says the law is preformed by the Gentiles.
How do you believe He performs this?
 

justbyfaith

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Eph 3:6, That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

indicates that that gospel, or the new covenant, is for Gentile believers.
 
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Doug

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Hi Doug, You raise this matter which was a recent thread but can you please clarify three things:
  1. Are you saying that the Hebrews to whom the Book of Hebrews was addressed where NOT in the Body of Christ along with the Gentiles because they were Jews with a deal designed to keep them separate from the Gentiles?
  2. What was Paul on about in 1 Corinthians 11 when he addresses the congregation of both Jews and Gentiles regarding their responsibilities to observe the Lord's Supper worthily?
    1Co 11:23-29
    (23) For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
    (24) And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
    (25) After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do you, as oft as you drink it, in remembrance of me.
    (26) For as often as you eat this bread, and drink this cup, you do show the Lord's death till he come.
    (27) Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
    (28) But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
    (29) For he that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

  3. Who do you think 2Co 3:6 is addressed to?
    (6) Who also has made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.
The Hebrews are Jews in Christ, the church of God, however they are not in the body of Christ; they believed the gospel of the kingdom preached by Jesus and the twelve and are awaiting the coming of Christ to enter into the Davidic kingdom on earth:
Jeremiah 33:17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
2 Samuel 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
David was told of God that his kingdom and throne would be established forever.
Deuteronomy 15:6 For the LORD thy God blesseth thee, as he promised thee: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over thee.
God has promised Israel will reign over many nations.
Daniel 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Jesus will have dominion over the nations in his kingdom on earth, and the saints, the believing remnant of Israel, will possess this kingdom forever.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel during his earthly ministry. Jesus did not go to Gentiles (Matthew 10:5) although Gentiles could come to God through Israel (Exodus 12:48 Acts 10:45); Gentiles would be blessed in the kingdom by the Lord Jesus and the remnant of Israel (Isaiah 60:3 Matthew 12:18-21 Luke 2:32).
Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Jesus was sent to save Israel from their sins.
Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
The believing remnant of Israel is called "little flock" by the Lord Jesus Christ; it is this remnant who will, according to the law and prophets, be given the kingdom on earth (2 Kings 21:14 Isaiah 1:9 Jeremiah 23:2 Psalm 37:9-11 Daniel 7:18 Deuteronomy 4:39-40).
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Peter preached that Jesus rose again to sit on the throne of David in the kingdom.
Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
The gospel of the kingdom was the glad tidings to Israel that their promised kingdom on earth was coming.
Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
That Jesus sent the twelve to heal the sick is significant in identifying the gospel they were sent to preach. God was speaking to Aaron in Leviticus 21:17-24 and told him that no seed of his could perform priestly duty if blemished by physical infirmity. The twelve were preaching the gospel of the kingdom to prepare a kingdom of priests as prophesied in Exodus 19:5-6. Healing was to prepare priests without blemish; to announce the coming kingdom (Luke 10:9); and for signs (Mark 16:17).
The twelve disciples were sent to preach the same gospel that the Lord Jesus Christ was preaching to Israel, the gospel of the kingdom.
Mark 11:10 Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
The gospel of the kingdom preached by Jesus and the twelve disciples was the preaching of the kingdom of David, the Davidic kingdom.
1 Chronicles 29:11 Thine, O LORD is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.
The twelve disciples were sent to preach the Davidic kingdom on earth. The kingdom of God includes heaven and earth. The twelve were preaching the earthly kingdom aspect of the kingdom of God.
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matthew 24:3 establishes the subject of inquiry as the coming of the Lord Jesus and the end of the world. The gospel of the kingdom would be preached by the twelve disciples to the nations on earth before the end. The same gospel preached by Jesus at the beginning will be preached at the end.
Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
In verse 18 all power is given unto Christ Jesus in heaven and in earth. Jesus will establish his kingdom in the earth as well as in heaven. The kingdom promised Israel troughout scripture is an earthly kingdom. Jesus is reconciling both heaven and earth to himself (Colossians 1:20); the earth is to be reconciled through Israel and the Davidic kingdom.
In verse 19 Jesus told the eleven disciples to teach and baptize all nations beginning at Jerusalem (Luke 24:47). This would pertain to the Gentile nations that will enter the kingdom along with believing Israel.
Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
The disciples certainly expected the earthly Davidic kingdom when they asked Jesus if the kingdom would be restored at that time to Israel. There is nothing in scripture that demonstrates Jesus or the twelve were preaching any other gospel than the gospel of the kingdom during that dispensation.
Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
God promised Israel would be a holy nation, a kingdom of priests; God has qualified this kingdom as being upon the earth in verse 5 when he said "all the earth is mine".
Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
The remnant, the Israel of God, will be kings and priests in the kingdom as promised.
Jesus and the twelve preached the gospel of the kingdom. The Lord Jesus Christ will come to fulfill the promise to sit on the throne of David in the Davidic kingdom on earth (Isaiah 9:6-7). Israel will posses the kingdom and reign with Christ over the Gentile nations on earth for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4).
 
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Doug

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Hi Doug, You raise this matter which was a recent thread but can you please clarify three things:
  1. Are you saying that the Hebrews to whom the Book of Hebrews was addressed where NOT in the Body of Christ along with the Gentiles because they were Jews with a deal designed to keep them separate from the Gentiles?
  2. What was Paul on about in 1 Corinthians 11 when he addresses the congregation of both Jews and Gentiles regarding their responsibilities to observe the Lord's Supper worthily?
    1Co 11:23-29
    (23) For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
    (24) And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
    (25) After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do you, as oft as you drink it, in remembrance of me.
    (26) For as often as you eat this bread, and drink this cup, you do show the Lord's death till he come.
    (27) Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
    (28) But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
    (29) For he that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

  3. Who do you think 2Co 3:6 is addressed to?
    (6) Who also has made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.
The passover and the new testament is for Israel. The Lord's supper is for the body of Christ, the church.
The Lord and the twelve disciples shared in the feast of unleavened bread in the day he would be sacrificed. This feast was a memorial and an ordinance dedicated to the deliverance of Israel from Egypt (Exodus 12). It was a feast to be observed forever by Israel.
Mark 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
Christ told the twelve to prepare the passover. This passover meal represented his bodily sacrifice for them. The passover was a shadow of the sacrificial death of Jesus.
Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Jesus had to shed his blood because the law demanded blood for remission (Hebrews 9:22). Jesus died to redeem the transgressions Israel committed under the first testament (Hebrews 9:15).
Luke 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
The passover will find fulfillment in the new covenant at the coming of the Lord in his kingdom on earth.
The Lord Jesus Christ died and rose again to put into force the new testament (Hebrews 9:17). God made the new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah (Jeremiah 31:31). The new covenant will forgive Israel all their iniquity and cause them to walk in his commandments in the kingdom (Romans 11:26-27 Ezekiel 36:27). Israel will become a blessing and light to Gentiles who would come to God through them in the kingdom (Isaiah 60:3).
The church, the body of Christ has not been given the new testament, but rather, the new testament provision of the blood of Christ as a propitiation through faith in his blood (Romans 3:24-26). The Lord's supper is not the passover, nor does it commemorate the new testament. The Lord's supper is a new ordinance or doctrine given to Paul by revelation from the Lord Jesus (1 Corinthians 11:23).
The passover meal in relation to the new testament is given as an account to be the basis of instruction for the body in regard to the Lord's supper.
1 Corinthians 11:17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
The church, the body of Christ, was to exhibit unity and to be of one mind (Ephesians 4:13 Romans 15:6). They were to set aside divisiveness.
11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
11:21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
There was to be order and consideration for the needs of the members of the body.
11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
Paul will now go on to remind them what the Lord revealed for Paul to deliver to the church.
11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
The passover was to be observed at a specific date, but there was no such command for the Lord's supper; it was to be done often. When the church comes together they are to shew the Lord's death for our sins til he comes. The body of Christ was to shew faith in the Lord's death as payment for sins, the death of the old man (Romans 6:6), and the edification of the members in the body (Romans 14:19).
1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
10:17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
For the church, the body of Christ, the cup that is blessed is not the cup of the passover, nor the cup of the blood shed for the new testament; the bread is not the broken physical body of the Lord Jesus for the passover or the new testament. The cup is the communion of the blood of Christ by which we are justified unto eternal life. The bread is the communion of the body, the church, not the physical body of Christ. The many members of the body, the church, are to be viewed as being one bread and one body by the sacrifice of Christ. The members were to have a sacrificial regard and consideration for others in the body.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Jew and Gentile were made one new man in the body by the sacrifice of Jesus (Ephesians 2:14-16) and should reflect that in their coming together by putting away their divisions and by their consideration for each other.
1 Corinthians11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
Participating in the Lord's supper unworthily is warned against. They were to discern the Lord's body, the church, and to be mindful of how they were to behave in coming together. They were to remember that it was the by Lord's sacrificial death that made them members of the body and of each other.
11:33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.
They were to behave orderly when they came together to eat the Lord's supper to avoid condemnation and remember that they were coming together for the communion and fellowship provided by the blood sacrifice of the Lord Jesus.
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
The members of the body were to be mindful of their purpose and fellowship of the mystery.
 

Doug

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Hi Doug, You raise this matter which was a recent thread but can you please clarify three things:
  1. Are you saying that the Hebrews to whom the Book of Hebrews was addressed where NOT in the Body of Christ along with the Gentiles because they were Jews with a deal designed to keep them separate from the Gentiles?
  2. What was Paul on about in 1 Corinthians 11 when he addresses the congregation of both Jews and Gentiles regarding their responsibilities to observe the Lord's Supper worthily?
    1Co 11:23-29
    (23) For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
    (24) And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
    (25) After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do you, as oft as you drink it, in remembrance of me.
    (26) For as often as you eat this bread, and drink this cup, you do show the Lord's death till he come.
    (27) Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
    (28) But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
    (29) For he that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

  3. Who do you think 2Co 3:6 is addressed to?
    (6) Who also has made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.
Paul in saying he was an able minister of the new testament was not saying the church is under the new covenant:
2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
Paul was made an able minister of the new testament. Paul did not minister the old letter of the law, he ministered the spirit.
The new testament should be viewed as being distinct from the old and new covenants. A covenant is an agreement between two parties. A testament is a bequest made by only one party on behalf of an other or others. A testament is not in force until the death of the testator, the one who makes a will or legacy.
The new covenant was made only with the house of Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31). The new covenant promised Israel and Judah that God will, by His Spirit, write His law in their hearts; by His Spirit, enable them to keep His law, and be a light to the Gentiles (Jeremiah 31:31-34 Ezekiel 36:24-28 Matthew 5:14 Isaiah 60:3). The new covenant will be fulfilled in the future.
The new testament is given to Israel as well. Jesus died and shed his blood to redeem Israel; for the redemption of their transgressions that were under the first testament (Hebrews 9:15-18 Matthew 26:28 Mark 14:24). The new testament was put into force upon his death (Hebrews 9:17), while the new covenant has yet to be fulfilled.
Paul is a minister of the spirit; a minister of the new testament, not the new covenant. Paul expounds the spiritual blessings, the spititual benefits, of the new testament, given to the body of Christ; the blessings and eternal salvation, which are bestowed, by the cross of Christ. The new testament blood of Christ, has also been applied to His body, the church (Romans 3:25 Romans 4:25 Romans 8:16 1 Corinthians 2:12 1 Corinthians 12:13 Philippians 3:3).
That Jesus would die for the sins of Israel was in prophecy (Mark 8:31 Mark 9:31 Isaiah 53 Psalm 16:10); that his death and shed blood would also be applied to Gentiles and the body of Christ was kept secret until revealed to Paul (1 Corinthians 15:3-4 Ephesians 3:2-6).
Paul is also an able minister to the Jews. Paul details that God will keep His covenant with the Jews; God has not cast away Israel (Romans 11:2 Romans 11:27).
 

Doug

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So...in saying that...it sounds like you believe that any others , not of Israel, could maybe have kept it??

I believe that God sent Jesus because no man could ever keep it.
The law was to give the knowledge of sin and bring all to seek mercy which Israel failed to see.
 

Stumpmaster

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The new testament was put into force upon his death (Hebrews 9:17), while the new covenant has yet to be fulfilled.
It doesn't edify to twist Scripture and strive over the meanings of words, Doug. Nevertheless, Scripture tells us that all those in Christ share the blessings of the New Covenant/Testament.

Rom 1:16-17
(16) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
(17) For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
 

Doug

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It doesn't edify to twist Scripture and strive over the meanings of words, Doug. Nevertheless, Scripture tells us that all those in Christ share the blessings of the New Covenant/Testament.

Rom 1:16-17
(16) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
(17) For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
It is not twisting scripture to rightly divide according to 2 Timothy 2:15. There is a specificity of use and distinction in the words of scripture.
I do not see why you quoted Romans 1:16-17 Please elaborate...the mystery revealed to Paul is not the same as prophecy as pertains to Israel especially in the the book of Hebrews.
 

bbyrd009

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Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The writer of Hebrews was writing to believing Jews in Christ, who believed the gospel of the kingdom, and were awaiting the coming of Christ to establish their Davidic kingdom on earth (Matthew 4:23 Jeremiah 23:5).

Christ was their High Priest and mediator of a better covenant.

Nowhere does Paul say that the church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation, is under covenant.

8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

The first covenant was not faulty, the fault lied with Israel who failed to keep it.

The writer of Hebrews is referencing Jeremiah 31:31-34 in which the Lord will make an everlasting covenant with Israel (Ezekiel 37:26).

8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Israel failed to keep the covenant made when God took them out of Egypt (Exodus 19:1-6 Deuteronomy 29:25).

8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The fulfillment of the new covenant is future. It will be realized after "those days". "Those days" are described in Jeremiah 30:3 when Israel will possess all the promised land; "those days" refer to the time of Jacob's trouble, the great tribulation to come upon Israel, in Jeremiah 30:7.

Israel will be enabled by the spirit of God to keep the new covenant. The spirit in them, will cause them to keep his law (Ezekiel 36:27).

The new covenant is made only with the house of Israel, not the church, the body of Christ.

8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

It is only at the coming of Christ, and the establishment of his kingdom on earth, that Israel will receive pardon for their iniquities (Acts 3:19 Jeremiah 33:8).

The church, the body of Christ, has forgiveness of all sin now (Ephesians 1:7 Colossians 1:14).
best of luck with this k, and also with your quest to become immortal, "death, more abundantly"

Not all who are born Israel are of Israel right
 

Stumpmaster

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It is not twisting scripture to rightly divide according to 2 Timothy 2:15. There is a specificity of use and distinction in the words of scripture.
I do not see why you quoted Romans 1:16-17 Please elaborate...the mystery revealed to Paul is not the same as prophecy as pertains to Israel especially in the the book of Hebrews.
Romans 1:16 -17 is one of many examples of ingrafted Gentiles receiving the same blessings that pertain to Israel (see below).
Isa 60:1-5
(1) Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
(2) For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
(3) And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
(4) Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.
(5) Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

Eph 3:6
(6) That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Gal 3:29

(29) And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 

Doug

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Romans 1:16 -17 is one of many examples of ingrafted Gentiles receiving the same blessings that pertain to Israel (see below).
Isa 60:1-5
(1) Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
(2) For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
(3) And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
(4) Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.
(5) Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

Eph 3:6
(6) That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Gal 3:29

(29) And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

First let me say that you are right about the body of Christ receiving blessings but they are spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3 Romans 15:27) not the physical blessings and promises of Israel.

When you say the Gentiles are in grafted I assume you are referring to Romans 11:17 but these are Gentiles who are part of the remnant of Israel that believed the gospel of the kingdom, not Paul's gospel of the grace of God.

Isaiah 60:3 is speaking of the Gentile nations being blessed in the kingdom on earth by Israel.

Ephesians 3:6 speaks of the Gentiles being of the body of Christ by the gospel that Paul preaches.

Galatians 3:29 speaks of the promise of justification unto eternal life and heirs with Christ by faith in Christ (Titus 3:7)
 
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DPMartin

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The law was to give the knowledge of sin and bring all to seek mercy which Israel failed to see.

wow you are way out there in left field, heck beyond the bleachers.

God doesn't give the knowledge of sin, and the law,(in this case by the hand of Moses) was given to Moses by the same who fulfilled it, the Word of God.

it is a covenant, and a testimony "the ark of the covenant" "the ark of the testimony". the knowledge of sin came into the world by the way of human nature in their own judgement at the garden. the law might prove what you lack in that you can't fulfill it, because you are in sin and a sinner by reason that you received the same life of Adam and Eve when you came into the world.

which is the context of which Paul speaks. though one can point out that one is a sinner via the law, one doesn't need the law to know they are a sinner and in separation from their Maker.
 

Stumpmaster

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First let me say that you are right about the body of Christ receiving blessings but they are spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3 Romans 15:27) not the physical blessings and promises of Israel.
...these are Gentiles who are part of the remnant of Israel that believed the gospel of the kingdom, not Paul's gospel of the grace of God...
Can you prove your delineations? To date not one person who subscribes to your doctrine has been able to.
 

Doug

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wow you are way out there in left field, heck beyond the bleachers.

God doesn't give the knowledge of sin, and the law,(in this case by the hand of Moses) was given to Moses by the same who fulfilled it, the Word of God.

it is a covenant, and a testimony "the ark of the covenant" "the ark of the testimony". the knowledge of sin came into the world by the way of human nature in their own judgement at the garden. the law might prove what you lack in that you can't fulfill it, because you are in sin and a sinner by reason that you received the same life of Adam and Eve when you came into the world.

which is the context of which Paul speaks. though one can point out that one is a sinner via the law, one doesn't need the law to know they are a sinner and in separation from their Maker.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
 
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