The sin that dwells in us....

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Invisibilis

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2017
383
347
63
Northern Rivers
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
...How could one be guaranteed to never ever sin again, from now to all eternity?
To never be complacent, to never forget again.

By never forgetting what it was like to be a sinner. Never forgetting that Jesus Christ died for our sins by showing us the way, the truth, and the life. Never forget our salvation, gratitude and love for Truth. And never forgetting that if we sin again, we may never get another chance of redemption like satan.

In heaven, we will still have free-will, and/or the power to choose.
Remembering what it was like, what happened, and what is it like now, will keep us aware of what is true.
 

Not me

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2019
1,696
1,945
113
66
California, Ca.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
To never be complacent, to never forget again.

By never forgetting what it was like to be a sinner. Never forgetting that Jesus Christ died for our sins by showing us the way, the truth, and the life. Never forget our salvation, gratitude and love for Truth. And never forgetting that if we sin again, we may never get another chance of redemption like satan.

In heaven, we will still have free-will, and/or the power to choose.
Remembering what it was like, what happened, and what is it like now, will keep us aware of what is true.

As Christ so teaches you Himself, I wish you well in your journey to be conformed to Him....

A fellow believer, Not me
 

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In Heaven, once we are freed from sin and given a new body, what will keep us from sinning again?

In other words, satan was created perfect, yet fell. Adam and Eve were created perfect, yet fell. What will insure that we in Heaven will never have thought that was contrary to the will of God? That did not result in a sin?

Stranger
What do you mean that "in heaven" we are freed from sin? We are free now! There will be no sinners going to heaven, only those who have become children of God. John 8:34-36; Revelation 22:11. Only the righteous and holy (now) will be with God forever. Those are the overcomers. There will be no more sin found in anyone that makes it, like found in Satan.
 

Stranger

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2016
8,826
3,157
113
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What do you mean that "in heaven" we are freed from sin? We are free now! There will be no sinners going to heaven, only those who have become children of God. John 8:34-36; Revelation 22:11. Only the righteous and holy (now) will be with God forever. Those are the overcomers. There will be no more sin found in anyone that makes it, like found in Satan.

Irregardless of what you believe about not being a sinner now....you didn't answer the question. Let me repeat. satan was perfect when he was created, yet he sinned. Adam and Eve were perfect when they were created, yet they sinned. So, what makes the believer throughout all eternity free from the possibility of sinning against God? What keeps us from falling? Why wasn't it enough to keep satan and Adam and Eve from falling?

Stranger
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Irregardless of what you believe about not being a sinner now....you didn't answer the question. Let me repeat. satan was perfect when he was created, yet he sinned. Adam and Eve were perfect when they were created, yet they sinned. So, what makes the believer throughout all eternity free from the possibility of sinning against God? What keeps us from falling? Why wasn't it enough to keep satan and Adam and Eve from falling?

Stranger
Adam and Satan were both beings created by God.

Those who enter God's kingdom are born again, being born of God.

God created Adam, and from Adam comes humanity. But in Christ we are a new humanity, born from God Himself, sharing His nature, rather than Adam's nature.

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Irregardless of what you believe about not being a sinner now....you didn't answer the question. Let me repeat. satan was perfect when he was created, yet he sinned. Adam and Eve were perfect when they were created, yet they sinned. So, what makes the believer throughout all eternity free from the possibility of sinning against God? What keeps us from falling? Why wasn't it enough to keep satan and Adam and Eve from falling?

Stranger

The angels had never been tested and tried as we are. "2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing." If we overcome God said that is the way we will stay. If we don't, that is the way we will remain (in hell). I quoted Revelation 22:11. That says it all, and I believe God knows He has the angels that will never go astray.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
 
Last edited:

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In the sense it is talking about, yes. Our nature is in our mind. Our nature is our flesh. There are two meanings for flesh. nature and body
I see the sin nature being a corruption of the flesh, being the body. The corrupted body with it's corrupted brain forming a corrupted mind. And that mind bears the imprint of Adam's choice, to seek after knowing good and evil, and finding evil to be inescapable on our own once entered.

When we fail to remain walking in faith, and therefore in grace, we are fallen from grace, back into that knowledge of good and evil, judging ourselves according to whether we break rules, which rules, seeking to draw lines in our behavior, eyes fixed on ourselves.

When we walk in faith we stand in God's grace, the goodness that flows from Him upholds us, and all we need know is whether or not we walk in trust and in love.

If we turn from either of these in any direction, we've turned from the truth of our new life. And the moment we realize that we've turned from trusting God, or turned from loving Him, or others, then we need to return to the mind of Christ, because that IS the mind of the Christ. Faith and love and joy and peace, being gentle, and patient, enduring, having control over ourselves, this is the life the mind of Christ causes our life to be.

Any deviation from these things is a deviation towards the mind of the flesh. Jesus set us free from that in it's entirety. We don't realize, and we forget, and we have a tendency to slip back into all that.

Recognizing, and looking back to God in trust brings us immediately back into walking in the Spirit.

Much love!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Not me

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I see the sin nature being a corruption of the flesh, being the body. The corrupted body with it's corrupted brain forming a corrupted mind. And that mind bears the imprint of Adam's choice, to seek after knowing good and evil, and finding evil to be inescapable on our own once entered.

You mean this is before we are born again, right?
 
Last edited:

Not me

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2019
1,696
1,945
113
66
California, Ca.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I see the sin nature being a corruption of the flesh, being the body. The corrupted body with it's corrupted brain forming a corrupted mind. And that mind bears the imprint of Adam's choice, to seek after knowing good and evil, and finding evil to be inescapable on our own once entered.

When we fail to remain walking in faith, and therefore in grace, we are fallen from grace, back into that knowledge of good and evil, judging ourselves according to whether we break rules, which rules, seeking to draw lines in our behavior, eyes fixed on ourselves.

When we walk in faith we stand in God's grace, the goodness that flows from Him upholds us, and all we need know is whether or not we walk in trust and in love.

If we turn from either of these in any direction, we've turned from the truth of our new life. And the moment we realize that we've turned from trusting God, or turned from loving Him, or others, then we need to return to the mind of Christ, because that IS the mind of the Christ. Faith and love and joy and peace, being gentle, and patient, enduring, having control over ourselves, this is the life the mind of Christ causes our life to be.

Any deviation from these things is a deviation towards the mind of the flesh. Jesus set us free from that in it's entirety. We don't realize, and we forget, and we have a tendency to slip back into all that.

Recognizing, and looking back to God in trust brings us immediately back into walking in the Spirit.

Much love!

This is very much learned. God is alive and working in you and the truths pointed to can only be learned by being taught from above.

Great read and may God continue to increase Himself in you.

In Christ, Not me
 

Stranger

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2016
8,826
3,157
113
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Adam and Satan were both beings created by God.

Those who enter God's kingdom are born again, being born of God.

God created Adam, and from Adam comes humanity. But in Christ we are a new humanity, born from God Himself, sharing His nature, rather than Adam's nature.

Much love!

Adam was of God. (Luke 3:38) He had no sin nature at that time.

Was not the earth and the garden part of the Kingdom prior to the fall?

Stranger
 

Stranger

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2016
8,826
3,157
113
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The angels had never been tested and tried as we are. "2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing." If we overcome God said that is the way we will stay. If we don't, that is the way we will remain (in hell). I quoted Revelation 22:11. That says it all, and I believe God knows He has the angels that will never go astray.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

The angels did have to choose to follow God or satan.

But, just as the angels chose to rebel before, is there a possibility they can rebel again? And if that takes place, what is the guarantee that man or some men will not follow?

Your use of (2 Cor. 7:1) seems to contradict your statement that the believer doesn't sin any more here when he is born-again.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The angels did have to choose to follow God or satan.

But, just as the angels chose to rebel before, is there a possibility they can rebel again? And if that takes place, what is the guarantee that man or some men will not follow?

God already knew Satan would rebel even though he was perfect. Adam was perfect also. Do you really think God was surprised? When that last day comes, God knows now there will not be anymore who will sin - forever. Jesus was chosen to die before the foundation of the world. That is even before Satan sinned. Satan hadn't sinned before Creation week. His first sin was in the Garden of Eden.

What is horrible to think about is there are many in the Church believing they are saved, but have never overcome sin. They are taught they will sin up until the day they die for as long as they are in this body of flesh and bone. They know nothing of the power of being born again. That false doctrine goes against the words of Jesus and all the apostles, and so does the modern definition of grace (the main heresy) Jude 1:4. Satan knows scripture, and he know that what a man thinks in his heart, so is he. If he keeps telling himself he is a sinner, instead of reckoning himself dead to sin, he will live up to being a sinner. But the truth could make them free. Jesus came to free us from sin indeed. And He has give us His Own Spirit to change our desires. You will do what comes naturally - either of the old carnal nature, or of the new divine nature. It is not our power, but Christ's. But our free will still needs not fight the Spirit that has been placed in us by telling ourselves these teachers are right - sin is too much fun to give up so let their definition of grace cover up your sins while you party under the covering. They'll find themselves 'partying' in hell.

John 8:32-36
32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Episkopos

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Your use of (2 Cor. 7:1) seems to contradict your statement that the believer doesn't sin any more here when he is born-again.

I believe that when we are born again with a new nature we are still babes in Christ. It is the testing of our faith and the trials that come that make us overcomers. So it is by the time we die that determines if we overcame or not, and whatever state that is, will be our nature forever. So if you believe you will sin until you die, guess what? You will have lived your life the way your see yourself. Either a sinner, or a child of God. You can't be both.

When is the Church going to wake up and believe Jesus over the defeatist doctrines of man that has made many fall away into the doctrines of demons?

You asked about what assurance do you have that it won't happen again, like to Satan. Believe that Jesus fulfilled His purpose in coming to earth and dying for us.

Daniel 9:24
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Episkopos

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,800
19,242
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
The angels did have to choose to follow God or satan.

But, just as the angels chose to rebel before, is there a possibility they can rebel again? And if that takes place, what is the guarantee that man or some men will not follow?

Your use of (2 Cor. 7:1) seems to contradict your statement that the believer doesn't sin any more here when he is born-again.

Good-Ole-Rebel
No one begins the new life with maturity. So then sinning is almost inevitable for they who are born again...until trials and suffering bring more wisdom. So yes, a born again person can still sin...but not when abiding in Christ. In Him is NO sin.
 

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The angels did have to choose to follow God or satan.

But, just as the angels chose to rebel before, is there a possibility they can rebel again? And if that takes place, what is the guarantee that man or some men will not follow?

It's just an odd thing when you think about it, isn't it? I used to think Satan rebelled, was cast from Gods presence, God at some point came to that place of casting out and said, let there be light. So He just made even MORE beings that rebelled (Us).

But sometimes I wonder now if maybe we ourselves, the creation of us, IS what made Satan rebel. Because sibling rivalry is in us with no good explanation of WHY it is in us, unless it entered us through Satan's influence in us and the fall. Its actually the first story we hear after the fall - the firstborn going after the secondborn.

I have a photograph of myself as a baby in my crib. I'm laying on my stomach and above the top of my diaper there is a huge, angry bite mark in which you can see every tooth imprint of my sister's mouth where she bit me, before I could even walk! That's not God in my 2 year old sister. God didn't put that there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GTW27 and Nancy

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,761
25,324
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's just an odd thing when you think about it, isn't it? I used to think Satan rebelled, was cast from Gods presence, God at some point came to that place of casting out and said, let there be light. So He just made even MORE beings that rebelled (Us).

But sometimes I wonder now if maybe we ourselves, the creation of us, IS what made Satan rebel. Because sibling rivalry is in us with no good explanation of WHY it is in us, unless it entered us through Satan's influence in us and the fall. Its actually the first story we hear after the fall - the firstborn going after the secondborn.

I have a photograph of myself as a baby in my crib. I'm laying on my stomach and above the top of my diaper there is a huge, angry bite mark in which you can see every tooth imprint of my sister's mouth where she bit me, before I could even walk! That's not God in my 2 year old sister. God didn't put that there.

Yes, I DO believe Satan became jealous of us. And in his anger and jealousy, was able to very successfully, turn other angels...much like he puts questions in our minds.
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,761
25,324
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Could there be some things that we might think is actually sin when it is not? For instance, when somebody hurts you or uses you and never repents, or admits it but continue to lie about it and, you (in general) have thoughts of arguing with them in your mind, and calling them things like...you are of your father, the devil, you kill steal and destroy!! Stuff like that. When this happens with me, and it does, I will get angry all over again...I know this hurts nobody BUT our own selves yet, I will repent of it and BEG God to give me the ability to honestly forgive them...in my heart. These things I believe take time and, God WILL deliver us from these thoughts as time goes by. I know there are sins, trespasses and such but...all of those too are sin to me. We are human and have lived in certain patterns that have not totally shed from us so, how DOES one stop these thoughts from slipping in, other than pray, of course.
 

Stranger

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2016
8,826
3,157
113
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God already knew Satan would rebel even though he was perfect. Adam was perfect also. Do you really think God was surprised? When that last day comes, God knows now there will not be anymore who will sin - forever. Jesus was chosen to die before the foundation of the world. That is even before Satan sinned. Satan hadn't sinned before Creation week. His first sin was in the Garden of Eden.

What is horrible to think about is there are many in the Church believing they are saved, but have never overcome sin. They are taught they will sin up until the day they die for as long as they are in this body of flesh and bone. They know nothing of the power of being born again. That false doctrine goes against the words of Jesus and all the apostles, and so does the modern definition of grace (the main heresy) Jude 1:4. Satan knows scripture, and he know that what a man thinks in his heart, so is he. If he keeps telling himself he is a sinner, instead of reckoning himself dead to sin, he will live up to being a sinner. But the truth could make them free. Jesus came to free us from sin indeed. And He has give us His Own Spirit to change our desires. You will do what comes naturally - either of the old carnal nature, or of the new divine nature. It is not our power, but Christ's. But our free will still needs not fight the Spirit that has been placed in us by telling ourselves these teachers are right - sin is too much fun to give up so let their definition of grace cover up your sins while you party under the covering. They'll find themselves 'partying' in hell.

John 8:32-36
32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

No I don't think God was surprised. You seem to be saying there would be sin before because God knew there would be. And there won't be sin anymore because God knows there won't be. Wherein it is true God knows all, we don't know all. Thus my question. If satan and man were perfect and sinless before, what assurance do we have that we or the angels will not fall again?

You keep wanting to connect this question to your belief that the born-again Christian is now sinless. And I can see why. If satan and Adam were already in eternity, and sinless, but sinned, which they were and did, that goes against your sinless Christian doctrine. In other words, your ability to not sin is in question.

Stranger
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Stranger

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2016
8,826
3,157
113
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I believe that when we are born again with a new nature we are still babes in Christ. It is the testing of our faith and the trials that come that make us overcomers. So it is by the time we die that determines if we overcame or not, and whatever state that is, will be our nature forever. So if you believe you will sin until you die, guess what? You will have lived your life the way your see yourself. Either a sinner, or a child of God. You can't be both.

When is the Church going to wake up and believe Jesus over the defeatist doctrines of man that has made many fall away into the doctrines of demons?

You asked about what assurance do you have that it won't happen again, like to Satan. Believe that Jesus fulfilled His purpose in coming to earth and dying for us.

Daniel 9:24
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,

I believe the same. When we are born-again we are babes in Christ. And yes we have many trials and tests.

You say our condition at the time of death determines if we go to heaven. I know you say 'overcomers' but that is what you mean, correct? So, if you are on a roller coaster ride and it flies off the track and you take the Lord's name in vain, then crash and die. Too bad. Hell for you.

There are to many Scriptures that teach the importance of the believer being cleansed daily to even entertain this doctrine of yours that the Christian is no longer a sinner because he is born-again. It is a nice thought, but completely unobtainable. We still carry around this body that is under condemnation. It is a body of sin and death. Even on your best day, you are a saved sinner. Arn't you?

(Dan. 9:24) is to the nation of Israel to complete her 70 weeks of judgement.

Don't misunderstand me here. I believe we who are believers are secure. I just don't trust that we are secure because of our ability to not sin.

Stranger
 

Stranger

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2016
8,826
3,157
113
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No one begins the new life with maturity. So then sinning is almost inevitable for they who are born again...until trials and suffering bring more wisdom. So yes, a born again person can still sin...but not when abiding in Christ. In Him is NO sin.

I agree.

Stranger