All things written in extra Biblical history are the infallible word of God?
Only the RCC would say something like that.
The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever
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Only the RCC would say something like that.
The Church described in the verse is the Acts 2 Church, which the RCC is not.
The RCC skipped Acts completely, and was birthed by commentary.
BreadOfLife
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A single crumb of His flesh and a drop of His Blood and a is still His flesh and blood.
Ummmmm, I'm sure your kids are really proud of their Scripturally-bankrupt daddy . . .
BreadOfLife
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Ummmmmm, ONE more time, so pay attention:
The time had NOT yet come. God does things in HIS time - not yours.
As for the Last supper and how Jesus was able to transubstantiate bread and wine into His body and blood before His crucifixion - this is a no-brainer. He is GOD.
It amazes me how anti-Catholics like yourself can believe that God merelky spoke and the universe lept into existence - but he CAN'T turn bread and wine into His Body and Blood.
What a despicable lack of faith
My point, WHO makes Jesus' literal flesh and blood?
The manufacturers name, please?
You had insinuated that Christ had not died yet for the time for why He could not hold communion in John 6th chapter.
The Jews had asked for that bread of life so I do not see Jesus saying to them, it is not time yet.
Since He can turn water into literal wine, then why not His literal body & blood? So what is wrong with that picture?
The point here is God would have us prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil. If God was really going to do as you say to the bread and wine having His Presence in them and all, then God would be condoning & practicing idolatry which He is not.
If He says do this in "remembrance of Me" and not as the RCC emphasized it as "Do this in receiving atonement for sins", then communion can only be symbolic of what Christ has done for us on the cross.
When all you need is to go before that throne of grace to ask for help and even forgiveness for how we are cleansed, then there is no point for communion to become the Mass, now is there?
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
But no. The RCC provides the confessionals and the Mass as if He is not good enough to forgive us of our sins all by Himself. God is angry.
BreadOfLife
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WRONG.
The angel NEVER told Mary that she would have a child before have relations with Joseph.
He told her she would have a child - PERIOD. It was then that she questioned him, "How can this be since I do not know man."
READ your Bible and stop lying already . . .
Jesus was telling Philip that He is GOD - not that He is the Father.
ONE God - THREE distinct Persons.
The 2000 year-old Christian Church has NEVER espoused your perversion of the Trinity.
What YOU conclude is heresy.
And I believe that Jesus COULD have been speaking ,metaphorically at the Last Supper - had it NOT been for the Bread of Life Discourse in John 6. He went to great lengths to stress the eating of His ACTUAL flesh and the drinking of His ACTUAL blood.
John 6:53-56
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
Whenever Jesus said, "Amen, amen" - He wasn't speaking metaphorically. Check your Bible.
He only uses this term when He is stressing a literal point.
As I stated before - the usual Greek word used for human eating is “phagon”, but John uses the word, “trogon”, which is the way an animal rips apart his food. ALSO - In John 6, Jesus begins by using "phagon" until the people start to grumble and doubt Him - THEN He switches to "Trogon".
Explain that . . .
I didn't think you would.
I simply gave Francis Chan as an example of an Evangelical Protestant who took an honest look at Scripture and Church history and came to the conclusion that Protestants were WRONG about the Eucharist.
BreadOfLife
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No - that's NOT what I said.
I asked you a hypothetical question to counter YOUR hypothetical because YOU are second-guessing God.
It's NOT up to you when He does things.
So, answer me this - because this is an historical truth that Evangelical Pastor Francis Chan eventually had to face:
Were Christians for the first 1500 years of Christianity condemned to Hell for idolatry because of their belief in the Eucharist until Protestantism "saved" the world?
Finally - the practice of telling our sins directly to a priest is based directly in Scripture. Three times in the Gospels (Matt. 16:19, 18:18 and John 20:23), we read where Jesus gave the Apostles the power to forgive sins or to hold them bound. This is NOT something that Jesus took lightly. In John 20:21-23, Jesus (who is God) breathes on the Apostles as he is giving them this power:
(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU retain are retained."
The fact that Jesus breathed on the Apostles when entrusted them with this ministry is highly significant because he doesn’t do this anywhere else in the New Testament. In fact, there are only two times in ALL of Scripture where God breathes on man:
The first is when he breathed life into Adam.
The second is here in John’s Gospel when he is giving them the power to forgive or retain sins.
You do know that you added that word "period" in your paraphrasing of that verse. Citing her virginity before marriage is not citing her remaining a virgin forever.
Matthew 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
The whole point of marriage is for God to make the two one flesh. It would not be a marriage otherwise nor any reason to call Mary his wife.
Matthew 13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? 57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. 58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Jesus did confirm to them that what they had said was true and yet their unbelief proves why He was not received nor did many mighty works.
Good post. If I may add....
The communion feast has simply taken the place of the sacrificial feast of the O.T.
It does not remove sins, but is a memorial to the slain man, Christ Jesus.
BreadOfLife
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Per the verse, Mary had at least 6 other kids...at least 7 including Jesus.
She was having kids like a rabbit....one after the other, with Jesus as the oldest brother to them.
She was being quite fruitful...
BreadOfLife
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And I already addressed this in a post to your fellow Scripturally-bankrupt friend @Truther.
Did Mary have other children after Jesus? The Bible does not support this idea. Let’s see what the Scriptures say about the use of the word, “until” (heos).
2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?
Let’s also examine Acts 2:34-35 (also see Psalm 110:1, Matt 22:44): For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool."'
Are we to surmise that Jesus will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father after his enemies are made his footstool? The problem here is that the anti-Catholic attempts to apply 21st century English to Hebrew and Greek from a culture thousands of years ago.
Finally, Mary’s question to the Angel is very telling about her intention to remain a virgin:
Luke 1:34: Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”
Mary was a betrothed girl who knew about marital relations. She didn’t say “How can this be, since I have not known a man?” She said “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”
She was stating her intention to remain a virgin and was puzzled by Gabriel’s announcement that she was to have a child. She knew that God was aware of her intentions. Her bewilderment and the words “I do not know”, as opposed to “I have not known”, is clear evidence that she had no intention of having marital relations.
This actually supports the 2nd century document, The Protoevangelium of James, which said Mary was consecrated a Temple virgin by her parents – much like the prophetess, Anna (Luke 2:36-38). She was to marry the older Joseph, a widower, who was to be her protector.
BreadOfLife
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Where did Jesus get the water that He turned into wine, Einstein?
Ummmmm, please elaborate . . .
.......And knew her not till ....
Joseph was respectful of God and waited until after Jesus was born.
Kinda tough as they slept together nightly.
A gentleman indeed.
I see, the RCC priest is Jesus.
He turns the wine into Christ's blood and the wafer into Christ's body.
Does all the fullness of the Godhead dwell in the RCC priest, bodily, also?
Let's recap;
Enow said: ↑
Then explain why He never held communion when the Jews had asked for it at the first and finally towards the end for the remaining disciples? How hard is that? But He wasn't talking about communion, so there.
You said "The time hadn't come yet.
As I stated before - I could just as easily ask YOU to explain why He didn't drop dead and atone for the sins of the world at some earlier point.
SAME answer: Because the time had NOT yet come."
You insinuated that His crucifixion had to happen first when you postulated your hypothetical in an attempt to refute my point.
But you didn't refute my point when Jesus held communion after the Passover supper and thus it was before His crucifixion.
I never said Catholics are condemned to hell, but God will judge His people for treading underfoot the blood of the Covenant by treating it the same as the blood of goats and bulls under the Old Covenant system where it bears repeating.
Hebrews 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins....9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us:.........
You have the Holy Ghost in you that testifies by one offering you have been perfected by Jesus Christ forever as sanctified as in saved.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
The knowledge of the truth is that there remains no more sacrifice for sins but if you sin willingly in spite of that knowledge by thinking you need to receive that one time sacrifice for sins again as if needed to be bear repeating....
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
So I would urge you to pray about this because if you do not repent of this notion that the one time sacrifice for sin bears repeating to receive again in the Mass.... God will chasten you for it.
Your references to other scripture for how it uses "till" or "until" is hardly addressing the scripture that says Joseph knew not his wife "till" she gave birth to Jesus.
Matthew 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
There is no point for Joseph to marry Mary if she was to remain a virgin when marriage means God is joining the two to become one flesh to build a family. And they did have a family after Jesus because He had brothers and sisters too.
Matthew 13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? 57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. 58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
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