The "like manner" of Acts 1:9-11

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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Prior to their disobedience, Adam and Eve did not have Eternal life, nor were they evil or good. One cannot be good or evil, if they don't have the "knowledge of good and evil".
IOWs, they were created innocent, and without Eternal life.[/QUOTE\]

Is the “knowledge of good and evil” mentioned at Genesis 2:17, is it the same as that referred to at Genesis 3:5 and Ge 3:22?

The good and evil” in the three texts seems to refer to the one thing. Adam and Eve knew something about evil before eating the fruit from the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil”. (Gen. 2:17) They knew it would be wrong for them to eat that fruit, and they knew that death was an evil to be shunned. To “be as gods, knowing good and evil” seems to mean more than just helpful knowledge of what is right and what is wrong. (Gen. 3:5) The word gods could mean just Jehovah God, or since the Hebrew word here is Elohim it can mean either God (Jehovah) or gods. If it means gods, then it could refer to Jehovah God and his master worker and only-begotten Son, the Word. It was to that one that Jehovah said, at Genesis 3:22: “Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.”

To know “good and evil” as Jehovah and his only-begotten Son know it would seem to mean to know good and evil for yourself, that is, you make the decision of what is good and what is evil, you judge what is right and what is wrong. Adam and Eve were no longer theocratic, no longer looked to God as the Universal Sovereign over all creatures, no longer accepted him as the one to determine right and wrong. They were going to determine for themselves what they were going to do on the earth, and not let God be the Supreme Arbiter.

Hence to the more responsible man, the woman’s head, Jehovah said in substance: ‘All right, Adam, if you want to be non-theocratic you go your own way. Decide for yourself what is good and evil from your viewpoint. You have no place in the garden of Eden. This garden is for theocratic people who are subject to me. Now get out.’ This view of the matter harmonizes with the fact that God does not assign the committing of sin as the reason for ousting Adam from Eden, but says it was because “the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil” and therefore should have no opportunity to eat of the tree of life.
 

Earburner

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No you don't understand. You keep going by your opinion I'm using Scripture to show that Jesus was saying right out that the Pharisees were disciples of Satan, Jesus never comes right out and says anything like that concerning his Apostles or disciples or the common Jews for that matter, but he did in Scripture state that about the Pharisees. These are the people you side with, Satan disciples.
Plus anyone who has truly read the Bible knows that the breaking of any law is sin and so by you and others saying Jesus broke law then you are saying Jesus wasn't sinless as the scriptures tell us and you're also calling The God and Father of Jesus a liar, interesting.
How about listening to what the letter of the Law SAYS, in comparison to HOW Jesus kept the spirit of the Law, thereby fulfilling the Law.
Here is the verse that explains it in three words:
2 Cor. 5[21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Now going back to what I said, about the original condition of the first Adam, BEFORE he knew sin:
Please select the correct answer in the following-
If one does NOT HAVE knowledge about good or evil, they are:
1. Good.
2. Innocent.
3. Evil

Did you select the correct answer?
If so, then you will also understand why Jesus said:
Luke 18[19] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Therefore, Jesus was NOT "good", nor was He "evil" , but rather He was innocent, having no knowledge of good or evil. And we both know that God the Father cannot do evil, but rather only good.

Since Jesus came "from above", shall you say that sin is in Heaven? Of course not!!
Therefore of a truth, Jesus, in and of Himself, did NOT know sin. From within Himself, He had no knowledge of "good and evil" to "break the Law", but very much the reality of God the Father within Him, to live in "the spirit of the Law".
That is why Jesus said that the works done through Him did not originate from Himself, but rather from the Father, who was in Him.
John 14[10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
 

Earburner

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^ We all can grasp the above understanding by what Jesus said about keeping the sabbath. All Jesus could do about it, was what the Father was doing through Him. The Father was doing good through Jesus on the sabbath day. There is no Law against it.
 

justbyfaith

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The fact is the perfect Son of God obeyed all of God’s laws, never violating even one Divine precept (Hebrews 4:15). Sin is defined as violation of God’s law (1 John 3:4). Since Jesus was sinless, He never broke God’s laws. Hence, He could not have broken the Sabbath. Those who leveled such an accusation against Him were, in fact, mistaken.

There being a change in priesthood (from Levitical to Melchizedecan), there was of necessity made also a change of law.

Therefore Jesus did not violate the divine precept, in violating the letter of the sabbath law.

They would assume that He would chide the Jews for their “nit-picky, legalistic” approach to religion,

Indeed, that is how I do perceive it. Instead of focusing on the fact that a man was made whole, and glorifying the Lord, they focused on the fact that the Lord told him to carry his bed on the sabbath (thus, in effect, by His teaching, violating the letter of the sabbath), and condemning the Lord for something which they should have commended Him for.

Law, according to God, is given for human well-being (Deuteronomy 6:24; 10:13; Proverbs 29:18).

Most definitely. And this brings up a fourth reason why Jesus did not sin in violating the letter of the sabbath; because:

4) The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath (Mark 2:27).

Therefore, healing a man on the Sabbath is equally legal. The point is the scriptures are based on love, love of God first and foremost, then love of neighbor. So anyone saying Jesus broke law to show love is mistaken.

I am saying that He violated the letter while adhering to the spirit, of the law.

The law has always included love when one is obeying law. So the Pharisees were wrong in accusing Jesus of breaking any law when all Jesus was doing was showing love to a neighbor on the sabbath. so just as the Pharisees were wrong in accusing Jesus of breaking the Sabbath anyone who agrees with the Pharisees that Jesus broke the Sabbath is also mistaken.

The letter of the sabbath law says (Exodus 20:10) that you shall not do any work on the sabbath day.

Jesus did work on the sabbath day (John 5:9, John 5:17).

Justbyfaith made the statement above in response to only part of something I said, to make it appear that he and I agreed with something I said. What I said was:

[The fact you believe the Pharisees were right in their accusations against Jesus shows your heart is just as incompassionate and unmerciful as theirs.]

But the Only part justbyfaith quoted is:
[ the fact you believe the Pharisees were right in their accusations against Jesus shows your heart is just] He is deceiving people into believing I said something that I didn't. The fact he will misquote me like that shows me exactly who he is, how he will lie to people and deceive people.

Don't worry man, I was just trying to get your goat (and succeeded). I know that you did not compliment but rather leveled an insult against me. It is clear from the testimony of the posts what you said and the fact that I deleted certain words from your comment. So there was no deception.

I would make a point by this, however: that those who bear good fruit do not bear briers and thorns (see Matthew 7:15-16, Luke 6:44).

And also, you should be aware that any time you point the finger at someone else, you generally have three fingers pointing back at you (Matthew 7:1-6, Luke 6:41-42).

Luke 18[19] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Therefore, Jesus was NOT "good", nor was He "evil" , but rather He was innocent, having no knowledge of good or evil. And we both know that God the Father cannot do evil, but rather only good.

Hi @Earburner.

It should be clear that Jesus was in fact good since He was also God (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58-58, John 10:31-33; Exodus 3:14; John 8:24).

Therefore in the scripture in question His query was, "Why do you call me good? Are you not acknowledging that I am, in fact, God; in your estimation that I am good?"
 

Earburner

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Earburner wrote:
Luke 18[19] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Therefore, Jesus was NOT "good", nor was He "evil" , but rather He was innocent, having no knowledge of good or evil. And we both know that God the Father cannot do evil, but rather only good.

Justbyfaith replied:
Hi @Earburner.
It should be clear that Jesus was in fact good since He was also God (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58-58, John 10:31-33; Exodus 3:14; John 8:24).
Therefore in the scripture in question His query was, "Why do you call me good? Are you not acknowledging that I am, in fact, God; in your estimation that I am good?"

Earburner's reply:
From what Bible did you quote the following from? "Why do you call me good? Are you not acknowledging that I am, in fact, God; in your estimation that I am good?"

I explained that Jesus, who came from above, did not come to us with "the knowledge of good and evil", but rather as "The Tree of Life".
Therefore, He was neither "evil" or "good", but rather innocent, being the Sacrificial Lamb OF God, who taketh away the sin of the world".

God's Son is the Perfect God/man Mediator (the last Adam) between us and our iniquity, and the "goodness" of God the Father.
Upon Himself He bore our sins, and because of that, through Him, the Father is able to grant to us His forgiveness and the Gift of eternal life, by His Holy Spirit.
 

Earburner

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Since God is good, it follows that Jesus is also good; Jesus being God and all.
I understand what you are saying, and I am not taking away from Him His Deity. However, Jesus was made to be mortal at birth, and was subjected to the temptation to sin as any one of us, and remained so upto His death.
It was in His resurrection that He became Immortal, becoming then a NEW creature (creation), the very first one, who was born from the dead.

We hear all hear His temptation, in His prayer to His Father in John 17[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

If we are to truly understand the incarnation of Christ, and the depth of his sacrifice, we must understand what it was that He had put aside, thus making his work of our salvation subject to a complete failure and loss, or the victory over death, of which He did acheive.

So then, lets hear the temptation that was in Him, and the contest of wills between Himself and His Father, found in Matthew 26:40-44.
And also, lets NOT forget the anguish OF His temptation, being that of sweat, as if great drops of blood, falling to the ground. Luke 22:44.

Of a truth, Jesus laid aside His own Deity, during the time of His mortal, flesh and blood existence, He truly was only a man, whereby for all of the miracles and works that were performed through Him, were indeed solely done by the Father and not Him.

So yes, IN that moment of His prayer, Jesus could have "walked away", and leave us to remain without a Savior.
We can only imagine the results of such a situation, for both the Father and us, if Jesus had walked away. As for the reaction of the Father towards Him, I dare not think about it! For there were none else found worthy, for such a work of our salvation.



 

justbyfaith

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Of a truth, Jesus laid aside His own Deity,

No; for He laid aside only the attributes of Deity.

God cannot cease to be God (Psalms 90:2).

during the time of His mortal, flesh and blood existence, He truly was only a man,

He truly was God in the flesh.

If you do not agree, then I fear for your salvation (see John 8:24).
 

Earburner

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No; for He laid aside only the attributes of Deity.

God cannot cease to be God (Psalms 90:2).



He truly was God in the flesh.

If you do not agree, then I fear for your salvation (see John 8:24).
Calm down and get a grip!
Yes! Jesus was God in the flesh. But you don't know how!
"God is a spirit". Jesus is the express image of the Person of God, manifested in the flesh!

Listen to ALL ofJesus' own words about who was doing the works, while He was in His body of flesh. There was not one work that He did on His own. If you can't agree with that, then you are denying the gospel, and cannot hear Him, due to the overpowering words of Religion.
John 14[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
> While Jesus was in the flesh, who was in Jesus?
1. Only Jesus Himself.
2. Only God the Father.
3. Both Jesus and God the Father.

[10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
> While Jesus was in the flesh, who was doing the works that Jesus performed?
1. Jesus.
2. God the Father.

[11] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
> While Jesus was in the flesh, what four truths did Jesus want us to ultimately believe about His presence in the flesh?
1. To believe Him in what He said:
2. I am in the Father
,
3. and the Father in me.
4. To believe Him for at least the very works' sake.
 

Earburner

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Now, in likeness to John 14:9, Jesus made a remarkable statement about us, WHO are "born again" through Him.
"For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Matthew 23:39.

So then, in what WAY shall anyone see the Lord in YOU?
Ans. John 13[34] A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
[35] By this shall all men know that YE ARE my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
 

Earburner

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Now here comes the truth, that the "religious" never understand: Who is doing the "works" through you?
Is it by religious persuasion, to do "works" that they have organized for you to do?
Or is it that YOU have decided to take up a cause that you have decided for you TO DO,
Or is it those works that come to you for HIM TO DO through YOU?
 

Earburner

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The conclusion is: God was DOING the works through Jesus!
Now lets apply that same truth to ourselves:
Jesus is DOING the works through us!
Q. Is He doing the works through you, or ARE YOU DOING THE WORKS? Can you discern the difference?
In the former, He shall bring/lead you to the work and/or bring the work to you.
In the latter, you appoint yourself to the work, or others impose a work of their fabrication upon you.
 

Earburner

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IOWS, IS Jesus calling you to a work that HE WILL DO through you, or have you called yourself to a work that YOU chose, for YOU to do?
I believe its a very serious matter and here is why:

There are many christians who are trying to copy/mimic Jesus and/or the Apostles, and therefore are forcing themselves to "be like Jesus".
Here is an example of what that is:
When they find themselves in difficult situations, or having to make crucial decisions, they apply the concept of "What would Jesus do?" (WWJD).

If you will notice, they are not asking Jesus to help them, but rather they are looking to themselves for how to copy/mimic Jesus!

Here is Jesus' answer to that concept of "doing works":
Matthew 7[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So what is the problem in verse 22?
THEY were doing "the works", and not Jesus!
Now compare that to John 14:10
 
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Twin towers coming down

Apart from the fact that no steel-framed high-rise building has ever collapsed due to fire prior to or since Sept. 11

9-11 Twin Towers Evidence Blows Away Fire Collapse Theory (fuel-efficient-vehicles.org)

The above video shows explosions along side of buildings below the falling floors
9-11 hijackers

CNN.com - Hijackers conducted surveillance flights ahead of 9/11 - Sep. 27, 2002

Israeli intelligence service, Mossad, has confirmed that the Israeli art students were, in fact, part of a major Israeli intelligence operation and that they were conducting surveillance of the activities of the 9-11 hijackers. They also worked with the Israeli Urban Moving System employees in New Jersey who were seen in at least two Jersey City locations -- Liberty State Park and The Doric apartment building -- celebrating the impact of the first plane into the World Trade Center.

The Israelis at Liberty State Park were dressed in Arab-style clothing when they were witnessed celebrating the first attack. The FBI later confiscated a videotape they filmed of the first attack.

conducting surveillance of the activities of the 9-11 hijackers
CNN.com - Hijackers conducted surveillance flights ahead of 9/11 - Sep. 27, 2002

It really looked like a demolition rather than collapsing buildings.

Buildings coming down
https://tinyurl.com/yd5agtl5

Does anyone know how many of the floors were vacant at the time?
 

michaelvpardo

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Acts 1:11
"Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”​

Now it seems reasonable to determine that the acts of God whom is spirit would in "like manner", be spiritual or in spirit. This would be according to Christ's own clarification that, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:6

How is it then, that so many (nearly all) people read of Jesus' ascension where He delivers on His committing only His spirit to the Father, consider the "like manner" to be the likeness of the flesh and what is common to this world...when the subject is the kingdom of God which is not of this world? What is the likeness to the things of the flesh and the things of this world?

I tell you--there is none!

It would appear that few have actually taken to heart that those born of the flesh, in addition to the need to be born again of the spirit of God...also need to develop a new perspective, a kingdom perspective, the "renewing of your mind" to spiritual things...and let that fleshly and worldly perspective die once and for all with that "old man."

And then get ready...because the word of God will take on a whole new meaning "in spirit and in truth!"
Your insistence on spiritualizing everything is not warranted by scripture. While some things in scripture can only be understood in a spiritual way, the division of spiritual from material in scripture is a well documented heresy of the first century and with regard to the resurrection, denies large portions of scripture.
All living creatures, everything with the breath of life, have a spirit. Born again Christians have a new spirit as well the indwelling presence of His Spirit. We also have a body and mind. These three define the soul.
Jesus identified God the Father as Spirit, so it is possible to exist as a "person" without a body, but it makes it difficult to eat a fish (or a cheeseburger. ) It also makes it difficult to reconcile all scripture to itself and confirm the word of truth.

And after my skin is destroyed, this I know,
That in my flesh I shall see God,
Job 19:26

Scripture clearly teaches that the nature of our bodies will change in "the twinkling of an eye", but you have to discredit Job's statement to ignore a bodily resurrection to some kind of flesh.
We aren't Buddhists trying to become one with the Universal mind, but Christians looking forward to the "redemption of our bodies." This may or may not be the case after the great white throne judgment. Scripture doesn't clearly define what we will be, beyond that we will be like Him.
 

michaelvpardo

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Twin towers coming down

Apart from the fact that no steel-framed high-rise building has ever collapsed due to fire prior to or since Sept. 11

9-11 Twin Towers Evidence Blows Away Fire Collapse Theory (fuel-efficient-vehicles.org)

The above video shows explosions along side of buildings below the falling floors
9-11 hijackers

CNN.com - Hijackers conducted surveillance flights ahead of 9/11 - Sep. 27, 2002

Israeli intelligence service, Mossad, has confirmed that the Israeli art students were, in fact, part of a major Israeli intelligence operation and that they were conducting surveillance of the activities of the 9-11 hijackers. They also worked with the Israeli Urban Moving System employees in New Jersey who were seen in at least two Jersey City locations -- Liberty State Park and The Doric apartment building -- celebrating the impact of the first plane into the World Trade Center.

The Israelis at Liberty State Park were dressed in Arab-style clothing when they were witnessed celebrating the first attack. The FBI later confiscated a videotape they filmed of the first attack.

conducting surveillance of the activities of the 9-11 hijackers
CNN.com - Hijackers conducted surveillance flights ahead of 9/11 - Sep. 27, 2002

It really looked like a demolition rather than collapsing buildings.

Buildings coming down
https://tinyurl.com/yd5agtl5

Does anyone know how many of the floors were vacant at the time?
What does this have to do with the topic?
BTW, I was employed by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the builders of the World Trade center and worked through both of the terrorist attacks upon the towers, the one in 1993 and the attacks of 2001.
Though I worked as a communications tech, everyone in my shop sat through a viewing of the engineering analysis of the collapse of the towers. The buildings were specifically designed to implode and pancake downward upon themselves in the event of a cataclysmic destructive event upon the structure to prevent them from "toppling" and spreading the damage to a much broader footprint.

While Jet fuel itself doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel, the building, like all office buildings, was loaded with flammable materials. The huge elevator shafts acted like chimneys, with convective forces and oxygen sufficient to super heat and melt the support beams for the floor above the fires. Once the first floor above the fire collapsed, the pan caking of the structure was inevitable.

I traveled those elevators many times and the rushing winds in the elevator shafts (which were huge and housed multiple elevators) sounded like a howling wind storm outside the elevator cars.

Gravity works. The farther an object falls under gravitational acceleration, the greater the force of impact when it collides with something, hence the appearance of explosions.

As a young child I once took my father's heavy clawed hammer and sat down on the driveway with it and proceeded to smash some quartz pebbles. They "exploded" into granules and fine powder. That's the nature of mass times acceleration equals force, not explosives in the pebbles.
 
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What does this have to do with the topic?
Nothing and yet you decided to add a little so I will comment on your comments

The buildings were specifically designed to implode and pancake downward upon themselves in the event of a cataclysmic destructive event upon the structure to prevent them from "toppling" and spreading the damage to a much broader footprint.
You sound like a coverup, but I am not sure why.

No such claim was made at the time. Your “toppling” theory is just that.
Please provide some “evidence” to support your claims.
(edit by mod)

:)-
 
Last edited by a moderator:

charity

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Acts 1:11
"Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”​

Now it seems reasonable to determine that the acts of God whom is spirit would in "like manner", be spiritual or in spirit. This would be according to Christ's own clarification that, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:6

How is it then, that so many (nearly all) people read of Jesus' ascension where He delivers on His committing only His spirit to the Father, consider the "like manner" to be the likeness of the flesh and what is common to this world...when the subject is the kingdom of God which is not of this world? What is the likeness to the things of the flesh and the things of this world?

I tell you--there is none!

It would appear that few have actually taken to heart that those born of the flesh, in addition to the need to be born again of the spirit of God...also need to develop a new perspective, a kingdom perspective, the "renewing of your mind" to spiritual things...and let that fleshly and worldly perspective die once and for all with that "old man."

And then get ready...because the word of God will take on a whole new meaning "in spirit and in truth!"
'And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe,
according to the working of His mighty power,
Which He wrought in Christ,
when He raised Him from the dead,
and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion,
and every name that is named,
not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under His feet,
and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.'

(Eph 1:19-23)

Hello @ScottA,

The words, 'in like manner', are referring to the Lord's manner of leaving the world, and inform us of the manner of His return, which will be in the same way, by the power of God.

The verses above from Ephesians one, show that it is a bodily ascension that is in view and not simply 'spirit'. The Lord Himself made clear to His disciples following His resurrection that He was not 'spirit' but flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). On the cross the Lord commended His spirit unto God (Luke 23:46), but it is obvious that it had returned to Him, for otherwise He would not have stood before them a living soul.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris



 
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