The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

Truther said:

Since the priest is that forgiver of all of their sins, He should stick soap in their mouth.

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And since YOU can't seem to come up with anything that's intellectually above a 2nd grade level - you should stuff a sock in yours . . .

Ummmmm, did you stick soap in your kid's mouths when they pointed our your less-than-intelligent remarks?

Truther said:

They only had sex?

Mary was not that kind of girl.

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I'll say one thing - it would be a hoot to watch you squirm while Christ is judging you for making fun of His mother . . .

BreadOfLife said:

I'll say one thing - it would be a hoot to watch you squirm while Christ is judging you for making fun of His mother . . .

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Is quoting the Bible which says Mary had sex with Joseph after the birth of Christ naughty?
Do you think the half brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ thought their mother was naughty.
No, having more children was natural for her.
Also, God has no mama.

BreadOfLife said:

And since YOU can't seem to come up with anything that's intellectually above a 2nd grade level - you should stuff a sock in yours . . .

Ummmmm, did you stick soap in your kid's mouths when they pointed our your less-than-intelligent remarks?

Click to expand...

Wait a minute. The priest knows his congregations sins in detail.
Should the priest do the chastising for God also, since he does all the forgiving?
Soap in the mouth is a great idea for those cussin Catholics.

Truther said:

Is quoting the Bible which says Mary had sex with Joseph after the birth of Christ naughty?
Do you think the half brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ thought their mother was naughty.
No, having more children was natural for her.
Also, God has no mama.

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Actually - the Bible never says that Joseph and Mary consummated their marriage.
It ALSO never says that Jesus had siblings. Only those who are completely ignorant of Greek would make that blunder.

The Bible DOES say, that Mary is the Mother of God, though.
Time for another Bible lesson, Einstein . . .

The Bible clearly states that Jesus is GOD:
(Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Matt. 4:7, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Titus 2:13).

Still with me, Einstein?
Let's move on . . .

Now - the Bible ALSO says that Mary is the Mother of Jesus:
(John 2:1, 2:3, 2:6, John 19:25, Luke 1:31, 1:42, 1:51, Matt. 1:18, 1:16, 1:25, Matt. 2:11, Acts 1:14).

Ergo, Einstein - Mary is the Mother of GOD.
She is the mother of the 2nd Person of the Trinity, who is fully human and fully God.

There ends the lesson for the day.

Truther said:

Wait a minute. The priest knows his congregations sins in detail.
Should the priest do the chastising for God also, since he does all the forgiving?
Soap in the mouth is a great idea for those cussin Catholics.

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And what is the penalty for a mind-numbingly stupid non-Catholic who adheres to the heresy of "Oneness"?

Just askin' . . .

BreadOfLife said:

And what is the penalty for a mind-numbingly stupid non-Catholic who adheres to the heresy of "Oneness"?

Just askin' . . .

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I am not oneness, nor am I trinitarian, but I am a non incarnationist.
God, nor a part of God became human.
The Apostles taught a human, the last Adam(redo of the 1st Adam), was made God after he was resurrected from the dead by his God.
This phenomenon was known by the Apostles as the Col 2:9 effect on him.
He still has a God, but is our God because every bit of his God fully indwells him, bodily.
To accomplish this feat, Jesus was made an omnipresent quickening spirit after resurrecting.
Too bad the RCC is not lined up with this 1st century truth, huh?

BreadOfLife said:

Actually - the Bible never says that Joseph and Mary consummated their marriage.
It ALSO never says that Jesus had siblings. Only those who are completely ignorant of Greek would make that blunder.

The Bible DOES say, that Mary is the Mother of God, though.
Time for another Bible lesson, Einstein . . .

The Bible clearly states that Jesus is GOD:
(Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Matt. 4:7, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Titus 2:13).

Still with me, Einstein?
Let's move on . . .

Now - the Bible ALSO says that Mary is the Mother of Jesus:
(John 2:1, 2:3, 2:6, John 19:25, Luke 1:31, 1:42, 1:51, Matt. 1:18, 1:16, 1:25, Matt. 2:11, Acts 1:14).

Ergo, Einstein - Mary is the Mother of GOD.
She is the mother of the 2nd Person of the Trinity, who is fully human and fully God.

There ends the lesson for the day.

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Wrong.

.......he knew her not until......

Until never?


Lol

Truther said:

Contextual fail.

It speak of a single woman as a single entity, not a shape shifter.

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You are correct, of course ... silly me. The "woman" in Rev 12 who gives birth to Jesus could not possibly be Mary,, the mother of Jesus. You're a genius.

Truther said:

Let's look again....


1 Timothy 2:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Repeat after me...."one mediator".

We are not the man Christ Jesus.


You think it says this....


1 Timothy 2:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one PRIESTHOOD OF mediatorS between God and LAYmen, the man Christ Jesus AND THE PRIESTS OF THE RCC;


...which is not Biblical.

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Like I said before, you're a genius (who seems to be incapable of thinking even a little outside the box).

"When I was a child ... I reasoned like a child" (1Cor 13:11).

RogerDC said:

Like I said before, you're a genius (who seems to be incapable of thinking even a little outside the box).

"When I was a child ... I reasoned like a child" (1Cor 13:11).

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That’s how the RCC started....extra Biblical thinking.
Becoming semi Biblical thinking.

RogerDC said:

You are correct, of course ... silly me. The "woman" in Rev 12 who gives birth to Jesus could not possibly be Mary,, the mother of Jesus. You're a genius.

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Satan chases Mary around?

You should be praying for her, not to her...

“Hail Mary full of....run Mary, run!!!”

Truther said:

Wrong.
.......he knew her not until......
Until never?
Lol

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How many times must you be publicly humiliated with the truth before it finally has an effect on your Catholic Derangement Syndrome?

Your desperate "until" argument has been debunked to death.
Here it is again, since you seem to be a glutton for punishment . . .

Did Mary have other children after Jesus? The Bible does NOT support this idea. Let’s see what the Scriptures say about the use of the word, “until”.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Let’s also examine Acts 2:34-35 (also see Psalm 110:1, Matt 22:44): For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand UNTIL I make your enemies your footstool."'
Are we to surmise that Jesus will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father after his enemies are made his footstool?

Deut. 34:5-6 says: So Moses, the Eternal’s servant, died there in the land of Moab, just as the Eternal had said. 6 He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor, but UNTIL this day no one knows where his grave is.
Soooo, does that mean that the Jews suddenly discovered his grave??

The problem here is that the ignorant anti-Catholics like YOU attempt to apply 21st century English to Hebrew and Greek from a culture thousands of years ago.

Once agan - you came again to a Scriptural gunfight armed with a pea-shooter . . .

Truther said:

Satan chases Mary around?
You should be praying for her, not to her...
“Hail Mary full of....run Mary, run!!!”

Click to expand...

Satan chases ALL of us, Einstein.
Crack open a Bible once in a while . . .

1 Pet. 5:8
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

The scary part is that YOU have kids.
YIKES . . .

BreadOfLife said:

How many times must you be publicly humiliated with the truth before it finally has an effect on your Catholic Derangement Syndrome?

Your desperate "until" argument has been debunked to death.
Here it is again, since you seem to be a glutton for punishment . . .

Did Mary have other children after Jesus? The Bible does NOT support this idea. Let’s see what the Scriptures say about the use of the word, “until”.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Let’s also examine Acts 2:34-35 (also see Psalm 110:1, Matt 22:44): For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand UNTIL I make your enemies your footstool."'
Are we to surmise that Jesus will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father after his enemies are made his footstool?

Deut. 34:5-6 says: So Moses, the Eternal’s servant, died there in the land of Moab, just as the Eternal had said. 6 He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor, but UNTIL this day no one knows where his grave is.
Soooo, does that mean that the Jews suddenly discovered his grave??

The problem here is that the ignorant anti-Catholics like YOU attempt to apply 21st century English to Hebrew and Greek from a culture thousands of years ago.

Once agan - you came again to a Scriptural gunfight armed with a pea-shooter . . .

Click to expand...

The Bible....


25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.


The RCC....


25 And knew her not NEVER, SINCE she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.



Lol

BreadOfLife said:

Satan chases ALL of us, Einstein.
Crack open a Bible once in a while . . .

1 Pet. 5:8
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

The scary part is that YOU have kids.
YIKES . . .

Click to expand...

RCC doctrine....



12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; MARY clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And MARY being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before MARY which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And MARY brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And MARY fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed MARY there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of MARY'S brethren is cast down, which accused MARY before our God day and night.

11 And MARY overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of MARY'S testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted MARY which brought forth the man child.

14 And to MARY were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after MARY, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped MARY, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with MARY, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.



Pray for Mary???

Truther said:

The Bible....
25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

The RCC....
25 And knew her not NEVER, SINCE she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
Lol

Click to expand...

The ignorant:
"Duhhhh, "until", uhhhhhh . . . (drool) . . uhhhhh, ALWAYS means the same thing in da Bible, duhhhh . . ."

Not MY Bible, Einstein . . .
2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Let’s also examine Acts 2:34-35 (also see Psalm 110:1, Matt 22:44): For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand UNTIL I make your enemies your footstool."'
Are we to surmise that Jesus will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father after his enemies are made his footstool?

Deut. 34:5-6 says: So Moses, the Eternal’s servant, died there in the land of Moab, just as the Eternal had said. 6 He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor, but UNTIL this day no one knows where his grave is.
Soooo, does that mean that the Jews suddenly discovered his grave??

Oh, I almost forgot: "LOL" . . .

Truther said:

RCC doctrine....

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; MARY clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And MARY being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before MARY which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And MARY brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And MARY fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed MARY there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of MARY'S brethren is cast down, which accused MARY before our God day and night.

11 And MARY overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of MARY'S testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted MARY which brought forth the man child.

14 And to MARY were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after MARY, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped MARY, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with MARY, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Click to expand...

Now, you're learning . . .

BreadOfLife said:

WRONG.
The problem with this post is that it fails to understand Biblical Typology and Fulfillment.

Mary is the NT Fulfillment of the OT Type that was the Ark of the Covenent. She is the Ark of the NEW Covenant, which is Christ.
I will prove my case using nothing but Scripture . . .

In the Book of Revelation, we see the New Ark of the Covenant in Heaven being spoken of at the very end of Chapter 11, verse 19: Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.

The very next verse is in Chapter 12 (Rev 12:1): A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

Verse 2 says: She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.

We know that this child is Jesus because in verse 4, we read: She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.
There is simply NO getting around the fact that the Woman here in Rev. 11:19-12:1-5 – the “Ark” in Heaven is Mary.

Here is a comparison chart, showing the OT TYPE that is the Ark – and the NT FULFILLMENT that is Mary:

OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) Mary carried the Word of God.

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)

OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)

OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)

OT - The On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).

Anybody who disagrees with this is only disagreeing with GOD Himself because it doesn’t fit their pre-conceived bias about Mary.

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You do understand that connecting verses out of context to make a case can be applied in the wrong way as not rightly applying the word of truth? If you acknowledge that as supposedly being done by Protestants, then you have to equally show the same pause and discernment towards your own application if you wish to set the example for those Protestant to do the same.

Regardless of you trying to make a case that Mary is the ark of the covenant, and you did a pretty good job trying to align similarities in the scripture, I do not believe that. It is still a big leap to connect the two. Sinners been saying that the virgin Mary & Jesus is not a original story and they can go to secular history in proving it in mythological belief even though it did not happen in real life. There are suburban legends of the global flood all around the world, and some will try to say that the Bible's account is hardly an original story, but the truth is in the Bible.

The problem here is the lack of such emphasis from Jesus and the disciples about Mary. The same goes for how the RCC puts such emphasis on Peter for being the "head" of the Church even though Peter was alive when Paul cited Jesus Christ was and still is the head of the Church.

As much emphasis that the RCC places on Mary, it is not so obvious as you teach it to be out of all those out of context scripture as applied.

How do you think Mary would react to Catholics giving her the title as the Queen of Heaven when in the O.T., said title God hates?

Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. 19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the Lord: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

That's how the Lord feels about the "queen of heaven". Mary grew up with that knowledge from the O.T. scripture. I am sure she hates it.

I do not see how the Lord as well as Mary can not be offended for giving her that title. That absence from scripture in the N.T. is found wanting for how you and the RCC are making a big deal about Mary.

So why not make a big deal about Jesus Christ Himself, the Son of God Whom had died, rose, and ascended for you? Is He not good enough? Is He not the Bridegroom as we are to be the bride of Christ in how we carry out this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ? I'd say yes.

Enow said:

You do understand that connecting verses out of context to make a case can be applied in the wrong way as not rightly applying the word of truth? If you acknowledge that as supposedly being done by Protestants, then you have to equally show the same pause and discernment towards your own application if you wish to set the example for those Protestant to do the same.
Regardless of you trying to make a case that Mary is the ark of the covenant, and you did a pretty good job trying to align similarities in the scripture, I do not believe that. It is still a big leap to connect the two. Sinners been saying that the virgin Mary & Jesus is not a original story and they can go to secular history in proving it in mythological belief even though it did not happen in real life. There are suburban legends of the global flood all around the world, and some will try to say that the Bible's account is hardly an original story, but the truth is in the Bible.

The problem here is the lack of such emphasis from Jesus and the disciples about Mary. The same goes for how the RCC puts such emphasis on Peter for being the "head" of the Church even though Peter was alive when Paul cited Jesus Christ was and still is the head of the Church.

As much emphasis that the RCC places on Mary, it is not so obvious as you teach it to be out of all those out of context scripture as applied.

How do you think Mary would react to Catholics giving her the title as the Queen of Heaven when in the O.T., said title God hates?

Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. 19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the Lord: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

That's how the Lord feels about the "queen of heaven". Mary grew up with that knowledge from the O.T. scripture. I am sure she hates it.

I do not see how the Lord as well as Mary can not be offended for giving her that title. That absence from scripture in the N.T. is found wanting for how you and the RCC are making a big deal about Mary.

So why not make a big deal about Jesus Christ Himself, the Son of God Whom had died, rose, and ascended for you? Is He not good enough? Is He not the Bridegroom as we are to be the bride of Christ in how we carry out this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ? I'd say yes.

Click to expand...

Your entire argument is built on FALSE premises.

Let's start with your idea that the OT Type of the Ark and the NT Fulfillment that is Mary is off because secular myths about the virgin birth of demigods, etc. What does this have to do with authentic Biblical Typology?? The Scriptural examples I gave you are some of the most accurate and spot-on types anf fulfillments you will find in Scripture.

David's question regarding the arrival of the Ark - in the hill country of Judea is almost VERBATIM as to what Elizabeth said to Mary when she arrived - in the hill country of Judea.
BOTH the Ark and Mary stayed there for 3 months. How is that "out of context"??

Let's not forget that on the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and Spirit came down as fire from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).

Conversely, on the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).

Only a spiritually-blind person who refuses to see cannot see the type and fulfillment here.

As to your objections about Mary's title of Queen of Heaven - YOU are guilty of taking things out of context.
God wasn't offended by the TITLE of "Queen of Heaven" in Jer. 7:18. He was offended by the WORSHIP og a GODDESS. This is a direct violation of His Commandment against worshiping FALSE gods, so get your facts straight here.

Finally - regarding Peter and Christ - the Church has ALWAYS taught from the beginning that Peter is the EARTHLY head of the Church - but that Christ IS the Head (Col. 1:18). Peter is merely a vicar - he's not Christ - and the Church has never made this claim.

So much for your like making dishonest accusations . . .